What are theists's honest opinion on atheists, vice versa?
Honest opinions about religion
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@Bones
What are theists's honest opinion on atheists, vice versa?
Well there's all flavors of different folks of various worldviews so it depends upon the individual. In general atheists are people I'm highly fascinated with, and have a great passion for. It doesn't bother me that they don't have religious beliefs but it does bother me that they may be discounting an enormous portion of potential experience and a dynamic reality that they could be very much a part of. I don't hate them, in fact I love them. I too, am a skeptical mother fcker and love science and solid experiential observations.
The truth be told I probably wouldn't join forums like these if it weren't for atheists, debating and discussing Theism with Theists can be more frustrating than dealing with Atheists and that is saying a lot. I'm not quite sure if Atheists realize my passion for them because most of the time we are scourging one another, talking over each other with views that are so concrete we might as well just talk to the wind.
In general, many atheists I've talked with are great people, wise, smart and intelligent....strong thinkers but then again, many are really stupid, unoriginal and simply think what others have fed them to believe. They mock Theists for the very same things they are guilty of. They say the same things, they read the same books, they follow the same atheist preachers and their worldviews are seriously pathetic in terms of common sense. They mock Theists for what they say is as believing in fairy tales and magic yet their beliefs reflect the same damn thing but maybe more so. At least Theism can draw from strong correlation between the products of the universe and intelligence. Atheists accept magical fantasies more than they believe we do.
But I'm not here to pick a fight or expose such dumbfounded beliefs I'd rather credit Atheists with being straightforward no-nonsense people who don't take shyt from phony religious buttheads. I can relate to that, if only they knew how much I've curved my beliefs and followed strong evidence to accept what is true in regards to reality. If they knew how much love I had for them they might be inclined to hear me out, because I've put in the time and thought to create for them the most efficient path to learning the truth about Theism. It is my heart and desire for them to know the very truth about themselves and their origins. Why? because I know in my heart that the knowledge that is available would not only astound them if they knew it were true, but greatly impact their experiences and future in ways they never thought possible.
I'm not your average stupid religious salesmen though, I know the journey of the soul and accept it for what it is. I know what this level of experience has in store for them and why they cannot see beyond the immediate physical sense perceptions. It is what it is, but I'm one who wishes to nudge them while they sleep, knowing that when the time comes to wake up they may remember what it is that I wish to communicate with them so they have a path of clarity from a brother who looks out for them in the best possible way.
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@Bones
I think that they are human. They come in a range of types. They are mostly born into whatever they believe or don’t believe. Typically they have not thought through their ideas- same as theists.
They are basically trying to live a good life- whatever that means. They want to be left alone. And to live peaceably with one another.
But then there are those who have learnt a little bit more about their beliefs or non beliefs. These people are more dangerous because more knowledge gives them more confidence to try and upset the applecart. However mostly because more knowledge is not better knowledge this tends to end up doing more harm than the less informed.
Then there are those who have better knowledge. These are wise people. They are not militant in their approach but ironically open to learning. And whether they are theist or atheist - they make the effort of growing with others.
We should either aspire to the latter. Or stay in the first group. Unfortunately many people lice in the second group and never escape. Some do thankfully. But not all.
Personally I like all people. Admittedly some better than others. I find it easier to dislike those in the second group.
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@Bones
Thoughts on religion and thoughts about it's adherents are separate. The people are generally nice, but the ideas are bad.
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@Sum1hugme
Thoughts on religion and thoughts about it's adherents are separate.
That's a valid point.
but the ideas are bad.
Would you say that ALL the ideas are bad? Or just some of the more popular ideas? Could you give a few examples of universal ideas that are bad?
i think atheists are irrational
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@Bones
I 'think I'm pretty neutral,
Towards atheists, theists, the religious, areligious.
I suppose I dislike anti-theists, and anti-religious, a bit.
I don't really pay any attention to anti-atheists, or religious extremists, I suppose.
Perhaps if I knew more of them, I'd dislike them more.
Just a generalization though.
As I think about it, I see exceptions and contradictions, with other views I have, of groups, individuals, systems.
. . .
Anyway, there's more to groups and individuals, than the definitions of atheist, theist, religious, areligious, anti-atheist, religious extremist.
Case to case basis, better than generalized opinion.
Theists; Allahu Akbar !
Atheists; 'The word God is for me nothing but the expression and product of human weakness'
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@EtrnlVw
Could you clarify what you mean by "universal ideas" please?
Christianity and Islam both are religions of terror, but Islam more so. I always respected of my grandfather that as a religious man always he left the church after all came to light about rampant sexual abuse. Christianity is a bit of a benign tumour in my community these days, but I do still want it gone. I threw a vulturous priest out of my grandfather and grandmother's house not long after he had died actually, a story my atheist younger brother is fond of telling. A creepy sort, up there on his altar and tugging on his collar while telling us that God sees all.
CEOs are all psychopaths, and popes and bishops and whatever their Islamic counterparts too. Why expect different? Because it's good feelings? So is Hollywood, and look at that, rampant sexual abuse too.
I don't mind the belief in god and wishing after loved ones. I sympathise with that. But organised religion is ugly.
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@Bones
I love every atheist I know. I even used to be one for 37 years. I think we are here for a reason. To experience and lern from duality, among other things. Atheism is the most seperate you can get from God, and there is a purpose in that. And then we all return . Prodigal sons and all that.
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@Sum1hugme
Could you clarify what you mean by "universal ideas" please?
Universal as in not specific to dogma, just concepts that reflect Theism. Some examples would be the universal idea of a Creator as opposed to materialism. Perhaps Karma would be a good example, or as Christianity calls it "reaping and sowing". How about the conscious soul existing as an eternal being? and what is bad about correlating the processes and products of the universe with an intelligent Source?
What do you think about the prospect of the soul moving on after the death of the physical body? in other words an after life? I mean we do see strong evidence and indication that it's probably the case. Keeping in mind I'm not talking about being tortured in hell for eternity lol.
What about spirituality as a practical means of interfacing with such a reality?
Are these "bad" ideas? if so how do you mean? what is bad about those concepts?
In all fairness, you pretty much have two choices to pick from....either God exists or God doesn't, it's not like there is a third option so in terms on worldviews take your pick. Materialism (atheism) or Theism. Why is choosing Theism such a bad idea?
You obviously have chosen atheism or materialism as your interpretation of life but that is your choice, it doesn't make Theism a bad idea and certainly does not mean atheism is somehow superior an option.
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@Bones
What are theists's honest opinion on atheists, vice versa?
I've debated atheists for several years--decades even. Most I've encountered argue very weak premises, the act of which I presume is informed by a weak grasp for logical consistency. I'm sure there are theists who do the same, but I tend to give them leeway given the nature of their beliefs. (Some) atheists on the other hand have hijacked "logical authority" and I "can't resist" informing them that "atheism =/= logical consistency."
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@Athias
93% of the National Academy of Sciences, an elite organization of the best Scientists in the USA, were either overwhelmingly Atheist (72%) or Agnostic (21%). That was a cross-section poll of the 2000 scientists there, but what skews it is that these are the best of the best, all PhDs.
71 percent of people who only have a high school education say they believe in God.
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@FLRW
And 70% of doctors say they believe in god, and they're no daws either. Might be a question of humanity, then.
My online experience with atheists has left me with an approach that's basically don't get too close or attached they will not ever respect you. And most that you meet in real life will never tell you to your face what the ones online say so you just can't trust them to be honest.
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@Athias
What religion do you prescribe to.
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@FLRW
93% of the National Academy of Sciences, an elite organization of the best Scientists in the USA, were either overwhelmingly Atheist (72%) or Agnostic (21%). That was a cross-section poll of the 2000 scientists there, but what skews it is that these are the best of the best, all PhDs.
Your statement exhibits a logical inconsistency: I presume that the remaining 7% are theists of some sort. That would mean 140 of these "best of the best" do subscribe to some God or Gods. So answer me this: why would the professional credentials of the 7% who assert their theism inform said theism any less than the 93% who assert their atheism or agnosticism? Are the differentials in these percentages supposed to inform either the veracity or integrity of atheism or theism? That would be argumentum ad populum.
71 percent of people who only have a high school education say they believe in God.
So? Once again, your imputing an argumentum ad populum.
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@Bones
I don't subscribe to any particular religion. I grew up Christian, so perhaps I have a bias toward the Abrahamic religions. But I acknowledge the existence of all Gods, which doesn't necessarily mean that I acknowledge the moral integrity of all religions.
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@Athias
But I acknowledge the existence of all Gods,
Even Zeus?
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@Bones
Even Zeus. But Zeus is derivative of Lucifer. As are most, if not all, pagan deities.
A somewhat interesting thread. I think I socialize and divide along religious lines. I wouldn't mind fully trusting someone with a completely different faith though future experience may change my view (just like some of the comments I've read on this thread).
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@Athias
All pagan deities are derivatives of ignorance.
And all non-pagan deities are derivative of pagan deities.
Generally.
Fantastical solutions in the absence of understanding.
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@zedvictor4
Honest opinions about religionzedvictor4 wrote: Fantastical solutions in the absence of understanding.
A+1
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@zedvictor4
All pagan deities are derivatives of ignorance
Ignorance of what?
All non-pagan deities are derivative of pagan deities.
Not in the slightest. You’re merely rendering a non sequitur based on their emergent popularity.
Fantastical solutions in the absence of understanding.
What understanding was absent? Please be explicit.
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@EtrnlVw
There's an infinite number of things we can imagine. Good ideas are those that Concord with reality and have a way to separate those imaginary things from those things that exist in reality.
I don't see a way to divorce religious ideas from dogma. Dogma is a bad idea because it can't change.
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@Sum1hugme
There's an infinite number of things we can imagine.
Give me two or three examples of why the universe exists without referencing either materialism or a Creator.
Good ideas are those that Concord with reality
I'm sure everyone feels that way, do you not?
and have a way to separate those imaginary things from those things that exist in reality.
What you think is imaginary does not always reflect what may be true. For example if God exists, and you believe it's imaginary how does that make what you believe true?
I don't see a way to divorce religious ideas from dogma. Dogma is a bad idea because it can't change.
Because God exists independent of religious dogma. Meaning that religious dogma doesn't always reflect the truth about God. Religious ideas are dogma, perhaps you mean you don't see a way to divorce the concept of God from religion (dogma)?
There are universal truths about God, that are not predicated on any dogma. Though certain dogma may reflect truth, it's not something we have to have and often times it's simply mans idea about God.
Religions express what man thinks (perhaps observes at times) about God, but religion and God are in fact two separate issues.
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@Athias
If you don't know then you you don't know.
But I'm certain that you do know.
So I'm content with that certainty.
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@n8nrgmi
i think atheists are irrational
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