How Did Jesus Do It?

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08.06.2021 06:33AM

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@janesix

You know the Bible isn't literal,............
you are playing games.

I don't know that at all, Jane. You see I have found that Christian charlatans choose to preach what is and isn't literal in the scriptures only when it suits them to do so. If anyone is playing games, Jayne, it will the Christian.

What I do believe I know is that the bible has a running theme that still exist into our present age/time that began from the day of the Adam. Of a controversy between a first and second son. Of an exile. Of a movement of a mass of people and that all coincide with a change over of power and the power struggle this involves and that they also coincide with the world wide natural disasters caused by the movements of the heavenly bodies above out heads.. In this, the bible doesn't fail. This is what I believe and this is what I believe the bible is all about. I could expand on this and I believe I have done so on one or two of your own interesting threads. And If I can concede anything to a Christian, it will be that Jesus and the Baptist knew exactly what they were talking about and what was at stake in their time.

yet you expect people to answer your questions as if it were literal.

What I also know, Jane, is to expect some convoluted bullshite when they actaully do attempt to explain the unexplainable. This is what I mean by Christians choosing that which is literal and that which isn't. The Jesus story is quite believable once the "miracles" have been taken away.

#32

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Posts: 11,424

08.06.2021 06:44AM

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@Stephen

He was probably hiding in a cupboard or behind a curtain Stephen.

Would make a great comedy sketch, with J jumping out, shouting hallelujah and doing the jazz hands thing.

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#33

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Posts: 8,351

08.06.2021 07:06AM

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@Tradesecret

I gave a plausible explanation. I said that the resurrected body enabled him to do this.

How? What was the difference between his live human body flesh and blood and his resurrected body also human flesh and blood. You have no evidence for your, not so "plausible" opinions. Not even from the bible.

I suggested that there is clearly a difference between a resurrected body and a non-resurrected one.

Suggest away. And then prove it?

there is clearly a difference

The difference being then? Show us the clear difference. There was no "clear difference" at all if we are to believe what JESUS HIMSELF said, is there?

Jesus said "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. Luke 24:39 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=+Luke+24%3A39&version=KJV

Hence not a single sign of "clear difference" according to Jesus himself.

So when you are ready, lets see these "clear differences"?

Resurrected bodies are still flesh and body. They are not spirit. And yet, they are more than a non-resurrected one.

But this is just opinion. It is not fact, biblical or otherwise.

What is the alternative plausible idea Stephen?

?!!! Are you saying that your own explanations are "plausible" ? I have said that I don't have an explanation, this doesn't mean that I have to accept your unsubstantiated explanations, even if they were anywhere near "plausible".

That is what you need to produce.

How many times. I posed the question and I don't have to "produce" anything other than to counter with the BIBLCAL FACTS..... which you haven't ever read for yourself!

See post #29 to Dr Franklin

#34

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08.06.2021 07:14AM

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@Tradesecret

The plausible alternative is that the tale is pure fantasy.

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#35

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08.06.2021 07:17AM

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@zedvictor4

He was probably hiding in a cupboard or behind a curtain Stephen. Would make a great comedy sketch, with J jumping out, shouting hallelujah and doing the jazz hands thing.

Could well be something along those lines, Vic, lad. With the usual reaction being " ffs don't ever do that to me again, Lord, you frightened the living shite outa me. I thought you were a ghost".

wait a minute there ,Vic lad:

"But the whole group was startled and frightened, thinking they were seeing a ghost!😮 Luke 24:37

#36

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08.06.2021 07:20AM

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@Stephen

HaHa.

#37

janesix

Debates: 12

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janesix

08.06.2021 01:52PM

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@Stephen

Ok I apologize.

I'm just in a weird place right now.

#38

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08.06.2021 02:30PM

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@janesix

Please stay safe mate.

><<<<<<<<<<<<<><<<><><<<<<<<<<<<<<><><<<<><<>

But what you said before.

THE BIBLE IS NOT MENT TO BE TAKEN LITERALLY.

CORRECT

I would of also excepted.

THE BIBLE IS MENT TO BE TAKEN LITERALLY.

So ummmmmm.

Very well played.

#39

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Posts: 3,041

08.06.2021 02:41PM

What we need is a.

24 / 7. FREE CALL ( ASK A BIBLICAL SCHOLAR HOTLINE. )

YEAH i said it.

A BIBLICAL SCHOLAR.

Surely one can not argue with a.

Say it with me now.

A " BIBLICAL SCHOLAR "

Them two words together trigger the ( Something isn't right here nodes ) in me thinker.

It goes bammmmmmmm.

Maybe baby.

Topic's author

#40

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Posts: 8,351

08.07.2021 07:04AM

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@Deb-8-a-bull

What we need is a.
24 / 7. FREE CALL ( ASK A BIBLICAL SCHOLAR HOTLINE. )

We have one or two claimed biblical scholars here , Deb. And not just your run- of - the - mill dogs body, goffering foot soldier of Christ but a genuine bona fide "high priest" of his church. The other you already know.

#41

BrotherDThomas

Debates: 2

Posts: 2,140

BrotherDThomas

08.07.2021 03:26PM

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@Stephen

@Tradesecret

Stephen,

YOUR QUOTE ALLUDING TO THE RUNAWAY FROM BIBLICAL POSTS TRADESECRET? "We have one or two claimed biblical scholars here , Deb. And not just your run- of - the - mill dogs body, goffering foot soldier of Christ but a genuine bona fide "high priest" of his church. The other you already know."

Tradesecret is the LAST one to be considered a biblical scholar because at this this point, this Bible fool has RUN AWAY from 83 biblical axioms from me in the last 4 months! Therefore, "Tradesecret is who he pretends to be," at best!

Like I've said before, when Tradesecret allegedly "teaches", it is like the blind leading the blind, and Jesus is watching him and will take judgment upon him at the Pearly Gates, praise Jesus' revenge! "Whoever walks in integrity walks securely, but he who makes his ways crooked will be found out." Proverbs 10:9)

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#42

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08.07.2021 04:49PM

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@BrotherDThomas

Tradesecret is the LAST one to be considered a biblical scholar because at this this point,

I believe he is in the midst of shedding his old title at the moment Brother, he doesn't seem to know what he is (or who he is) of late.#53

Maybe a few more weeks sick leave will do the trick. I too am waiting for his response to my post above#33 , but I won't be holding my breath.

Meanwhile, the Doc is awol and appears to be avoiding clearing up the matter of those " out of context" allegations he made against me>>#29

#43

ebuc

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Posts: 4,334

ebuc

08.07.2021 07:17PM

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@janesix

@Stephen

@Deb-8-a-bull

@Bones

How did he do it?

He did it any way she wanted him too, and the longer { time wise } the better. :---)

Oh lord! Please dont stop doing it!

#44

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Posts: 3,360

08.08.2021 03:52AM

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@Stephen

I believe he is in the midst of shedding his old title at the moment Brother, he doesn't seem to know what he is (or who he is) of late.#53
Maybe a few more weeks sick leave will do the trick. I too am waiting for his response to my post above#33 , but I won't be holding my breath.

Meanwhile, the Doc is awol and appears to be avoiding clearing up the matter of those " out of context" allegations he made against me>>#29

Again, you actually don't know anything about me - except what I have revealed to you Brother FAKE Thomas. You presume and assume many things. I never said I was ordained. But You called me Reverend. I never said I was not ordained. So now I am according to you - shedding my titles. I just love the way you do this. One thing about you dear Stevie Blunder is that you are never dull. Dumb yes. But never dull.

I respond to posts when I want too - not because you demand me to do so. I can recall some of the posts you have refused to answer. Or simply run away from if you like.

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#45

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08.08.2021 05:51AM

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@Tradesecret

I believe he is in the midst of shedding his old title at the moment Brother, he doesn't seem to know what he is (or who he is) of late.#53
Maybe a few more weeks sick leave will do the trick. I too am waiting for his response to my post above#33 , but I won't be holding my breath.

Meanwhile, the Doc is awol and appears to be avoiding clearing up the matter of those " out of context" allegations he made against me>>#29
Again, you actually don't know anything about me - except what I have revealed to you Brother FAKE Thomas.

And your life history on a forum to the WWW

I respond to posts when I want too

But here you are, wasting time with irrelevant posts.

Start here>>

Tradesecrete wrote:

I suggested that there is clearly a difference between a resurrected body and a non-resurrected one.

The difference being then? Show us the clear difference. There was no "clear difference" at all if we are to believe what JESUS HIMSELF said, is there?

Hence not a single sign of "clear difference" according to Jesus himself.

So when you are ready, lets see these "clear differences"?

#46

Dr.Franklin

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Dr.Franklin

08.08.2021 12:53PM

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@Stephen

Again, after Jesus has resurrected, he is in a different state where he can do that

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#47

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08.08.2021 02:27PM

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@Dr.Franklin

Again, after Jesus has resurrected, he is in a different state where he can do that

And you can offer proof of that can you, Doc?

Or are you just going along with what the Reverend idiot "Tradey" Tradesecrete? He hasn't proven it yet either.

different state

What state? A very flesh and blood Jesus doesn't agree with you. He says " it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. Luke 24:39

So when you are ready Doc...... the floor is yours.

And you keep avoiding this, just as knew you would.

Dr.Franklin wrote:
Imao this is literally what i was talking about- you take a verse with zero context and make a basic objection to it.

"On the evening of that first day of the week, when the disciples were together, with the doors locked for fear of the Jewish leaders, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!”John 20:19 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+20%3A19-20&version=NIV

And this>>

So now is all I expect from you Doc is your usual default and for you to go into your complete denial mode even as to what JESUS HIMSELF has to say on the matter.

And before you accuse me AGAIN of taking a verse out of context, I suggest for the second time, that you put Jesus' words into the correct context and show me how Jesus is NOT saying he is NOT spirit and is NOT saying he is flesh and bone.

Off you go then.

#48

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Posts: 3,360

08.11.2021 05:21AM

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@Stephen

The difference being then? Show us the clear difference. There was no "clear difference" at all if we are to believe what JESUS HIMSELF said, is there?

Jesus said "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. Luke 24:39 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=+Luke+24%3A39&version=KJV
Hence not a single sign of "clear difference" according to Jesus himself.
So when you are ready, lets see these "clear differences"?

I never said Jesus was resurrected as a spirit. He was not a ghost. He was resurrected in flesh and blood. But his body was obviously different. Yes, he ate. But he also walked around - with gaping holes in his side and in his hands. That is not normal. He walked through walls. His appearance at times was cloaked. For instance on the road to Emmaus. The two disciples did not recognise him. Either because they were in shock, grief, or because they did not recognise him in his resurrected body. Not until they came to understand that the messiah had to die. And then they recognised him and IMMEDIATELY disapeared before their eyes.

Normal bodies do not disapear.

Why are you choosing to see that the evidence here in the narrative is that his pre-resurrected body was quite different to his post resurrected body? Not only that - his final appearance is of a person ascending into the clouds. Normal bodies do not do this type of thing. We don't just float into the air.

Yet Jesus had been dead - physically dead. There is no other plausible explanation that fits the facts. Then he was seen alive by over 500 people. Again, according to the facts in the narrative. And whether you believe the story is true or not - is really quite irrelevant. The narrative is clearly saying Jesus died and then rose again, physically. It describes differences between his post and pre resurrection body.

The post resurrection body was able to just walk through walls, and disappear and even float into the sky. Yet Jesus own words, deny he was a ghost or a spirit. But indeed was flesh and blood - and ate fish. People could touch him - Thomas did. Mary did. I Imagine others did as well. Although that is speculation on my part.

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#49

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08.11.2021 05:56AM

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@Tradesecret

The difference being then? Show us the clear difference. There was no "clear difference" at all if we are to believe what JESUS HIMSELF said, is there?

Jesus said "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. Luke 24:39 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=+Luke+24%3A39&version=KJV
Hence not a single sign of "clear difference" according to Jesus himself.
So when you are ready, lets see these "clear differences"?
I never said Jesus was resurrected as a spirit. He was not a ghost.

I know you didn't say that. And I haven't accused you of saying that. And you could hardly argue with Jesus and what he says on the matter now could you, you idiot.

He was resurrected in flesh and blood. But his body was obviously different.

How? Where does the scripture show this "clear difference"?

There is no other plausible explanation that fits the facts.

Of course there is, but you simply can't accept the facts. Now show us this "clear difference".

#50

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Posts: 3,360

08.11.2021 10:30PM

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@Stephen

Now show us this "clear difference".

It seems that you need to be healed of your blindness. Or perhaps of your ignorance.

Even Dr Franklin recognised the differences. Of course he is a scholar unlike you.

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#51

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08.13.2021 05:06AM

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@Tradesecret

@Dr.Franklin

Now show us this "clear difference".
It seems that you need to be healed of your blindness.

I have asked you to show this "very clear difference" . You have failed and still have not done so.

Even Dr Franklin recognised the differences.

NOPE! He is just following you up a blind ally because he too is stuck for an answer. He's a thick as you are. And this is a perfect example of what Jesus meant by

" the bind leading the blind", in action.

#52

Debates: 2

Posts: 3,360

08.17.2021 02:16AM

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@Stephen

Now show us this "clear difference".
It seems that you need to be healed of your blindness.

I have asked you to show this "very clear difference" . You have failed and still have not done so.

You are a liar. I have shown it on numerous occasions.

What do we know about resurrected bodies? Not a great deal. This is true. Yet Jesus needed to eat after he was resurrected. He was physical enough at times for people to touch him. His body was pierced both by a sword and nails. It may be well that his heart had collapsed by the spear as well. Yet, he was alive and seen by hundreds of contemporaries. And then interestingly enough, he disappeared before their eyes in front of two disciples. And then he was back at Jerusalem pretty quick. All these things suggest that the resurrected body - as opposed to a non-resurrected body had powers that were different. Not only that - he also ascended into the clouds. I do not know how anyone reading these stories would deny the supernatural element. I don't particularly care whether you believe the narratives. That is a completely different issue. But the narratives themselves are pretty clear that Jesus in his resurrected body had the power to disappear in front of people's eyes. https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/6522/post-links/280614

Hence, Jesus needed to eat food. Yet Jesus was able to disappear before the disciple's very eyes. And then to appear some 10 miles later within a few moments. https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/6522/post-links/281141

never said Jesus was resurrected as a spirit. He was not a ghost. He was resurrected in flesh and blood. But his body was obviously different. Yes, he ate. But he also walked around - with gaping holes in his side and in his hands. That is not normal. He walked through walls. His appearance at times was cloaked. For instance on the road to Emmaus. The two disciples did not recognise him. Either because they were in shock, grief, or because they did not recognise him in his resurrected body. Not until they came to understand that the messiah had to die. And then they recognised him and IMMEDIATELY disapeared before their eyes.
Normal bodies do not disapear.

Why are you choosing to see that the evidence here in the narrative is that his pre-resurrected body was quite different to his post resurrected body? Not only that - his final appearance is of a person ascending into the clouds. Normal bodies do not do this type of thing. We don't just float into the air.

Yet Jesus had been dead - physically dead. There is no other plausible explanation that fits the facts. Then he was seen alive by over 500 people. Again, according to the facts in the narrative. And whether you believe the story is true or not - is really quite irrelevant. The narrative is clearly saying Jesus died and then rose again, physically. It describes differences between his post and pre resurrection body.

The post resurrection body was able to just walk through walls, and disappear and even float into the sky. Yet Jesus own words, deny he was a ghost or a spirit. But indeed was flesh and blood - and ate fish. People could touch him - Thomas did. Mary did. I Imagine others did as well. Although that is speculation on my part. https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/6522/post-links/282734

Now these are factors from the bible that Jesus' pre-resurrection body and post -resurrection body are different. I can guess that you reject these because I did not link a bible verse to them.

Luke 24:31. Then their eyes were opened and they recognized him, and he disappeared from their sight. (post resurrection body vanished in front of them.)

Luke 24:40 He showed them his hands and his feet. (Post resurrection body walking around his huge gaping holes in it)

John 20:19 With the doors locked for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them. He showed them his hands and his side.. (post resurrection body walks through locked doors or walls. Post resurrection body walking around with gaping holes in his hands and his side. )

John 20:27 Then he said to Thomas, "put your finger here see my hands reach out your hand and put it in my side. (Post resurrection body had a gaping hole in his side - the size of a man's hand.)

Acts 1:9 After this he was taken up before their very eyes. (post resurrection body going up into the sky - cf Luke 24:51 - he was taken up into heaven)

Each of these situations - describe what his post resurrection body was able to do.

Stop lying.

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#53

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Posts: 8,351

08.17.2021 05:52AM

Now show us this "clear difference".
It seems that you need to be healed of your blindness.

I have asked you to show this "very clear difference" . You have failed and still have not done so.

You are a liar. I have shown it on numerous occasions.

NOPE! You have shown nothing at all. Is all you have done is spout to us that there ARE " very clear difference" between a living flesh, blood and bone person and a once dead and resurrected flesh, blood and bone person and called this idea "plausible".

Tradesecrete wrote: I suggested that there is clearly a difference between a resurrected body and a non-resurrected one. #28
Tradesecret

So what is the difference stupid? And let us see this "very clear difference".

You admit that you do not even know anything about resurrected bodies>>

Tradesecret wrote: What do we know about resurrected bodies? Not a great deal.#6
Tradesecret

But you are telling us that there is a " very clear difference" . This is how stupid and contradictory you are. If we don't know anything about resurrected bodies, how is it that you can say that there are "very clear differences? thicko.

#54

Debates: 2

Posts: 3,360

08.17.2021 06:05AM

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@Stephen

Well the only one playing dumb is you.

You are simply living in la la land, Stephen. You pick and choose things you want to support your narrative and ignore everything else. Why do you choose some things Jesus says - like he is flesh and blood and ignore when he says he rose from the dead in accordance with the Scriptures? Why???

Because it does not support your unsupported narrative. It doesn't support your subjective interpretation. Your own little religious experience that noone else can verify. LOL! You are the biggest joke on this site.

Jesus' post resurrection body was flesh and blood - but it also was able to disappear according to the narrative. This never happened prior to the resurrection. Jesus' post resurrection body according to the narratives was able walk around with big gaping holes in it. This never happened prior to the resurrection did it?

Jesus' post resurrection body flew up into the sky. This never happened according to the narratives prior to the resurrection did it?

Just saying I have shown nothing is petty and pigheaded. It is arbitrary and irrational. At least have the curtesy to explain why you think these factors don't demonstrate a difference with Jesus' pre-resurrection body. Or are you admitting you are arbitrary and irrational in your response?

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#55

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Posts: 8,351

08.17.2021 06:13AM

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@Tradesecret

Well the only one playing dumb is you.

So you keep saying, but you still haven't shown these "very clear differences" between a living flesh, blood and bone person and a once dead and resurrected flesh, blood and bone person and called this idea "plausible".

Tradesecrete wrote: I suggested that there is clearly a difference between a resurrected body and a non-resurrected one. #28
Tradesecret

So what is the difference stupid? And let us see this "very clear difference".

#56

Debates: 2

Posts: 3,360

08.17.2021 06:44AM

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@Stephen

Luke 24:31. Then their eyes were opened and they recognized him, and he disappeared from their sight. (post resurrection body vanished in front of them.)

Luke 24:40 He showed them his hands and his feet. (Post resurrection body walking around his huge gaping holes in it)

John 20:19 With the doors locked for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them. He showed them his hands and his side.. (post resurrection body walks through locked doors or walls. Post resurrection body walking around with gaping holes in his hands and his side. )

John 20:27 Then he said to Thomas, "put your finger here see my hands reach out your hand and put it in my side. (Post resurrection body had a gaping hole in his side - the size of a man's hand.)

Acts 1:9 After this he was taken up before their very eyes. (post resurrection body going up into the sky - cf Luke 24:51 - he was taken up into heaven)

Each of these situations - describe what his post resurrection body was able to do. https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/6522/post-links/284288

Stephen, denying I have shown these things from the narrative is unhelpful. Are you saying that Jesus pre-resurrection was able to do all of these things in his pre-resurrection body?

Jesus of course in his pre-resurrection body did do amazing things according to the narratives. He walked on water. He stilled the storm. He healed many thousands of people. He sent demons flying from humans. He predicted where schools of large fish would be. He predicted where one fish would be with a coin in its mouth. He raised people from the dead. He turned water into wine. He turned a couple of fish and loaves into enough for 1000s of people. And I suppose one could argue that if he could do this - then he ought to be able to at least do these in his post-resurrection body.

And I don't have a problem with that except that in his pre-resurrection body, were part of the messianic / divine narrative. After the resurrection, these signs seem to be of a different purpose. Disappearing from people's sight only, walking through a wall, rising to a cloud - not part of the messianic narrative per se - but part of a post-resurrection Christ. Interesting things really. But clearly different in scope and nature.

I said I don't much about a post resurrection body in the sense I have not seen one. And neither have you. My only information comes from the NT. Jesus died as a man and he rose as a man. Jesus as God did not die - therefore he did not rise as God. God cannot die.

#57

RationalMadman

Debates: 569

Posts: 19,930

RationalMadman

08.17.2021 05:45PM

How Did Jesus Enter the Locked Room?

369 days later

#58

Shila

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Posts: 2,743

Shila

08.21.2022 10:53PM

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@Stephen

Jesus , it has been agreed by some Christians that Jesus resurrected as flesh and blood man.

So a recent question I have posed is- how did Jesus enter the closed and locked room?

"On the evening of that first day of the week, when the disciples were together, with the doors locked for fear of the Jewish leaders, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!”John 20:19 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+20%3A19-20&version=NIV

How did he do it?

According to the JW Jesus appeared to the disciples in the spirit and not in flesh and blood.

So a locked door or a sealed tomb would not be a problem for a spirit.

Thomas even confirm Jesus appeared as a Ghost/Spirit. He still has the cuts and flesh sounds where he was pierced with nails and a spear. But he was not bleeding.

Jesus Appears to Thomas

John 20:24 Now Thomas (also known as Didymus[a]), one of the Twelve, was not with the disciples when Jesus came. 25 So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord!”

But he said to them, “Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe.”

26 A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” 27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”

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#59

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