Why does God want to be worshipped?

Author: aaaa

Posts

Total: 79
EtrnlVw
EtrnlVw's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,869
3
3
5
EtrnlVw's avatar
EtrnlVw
3
3
5
-->
@Lemming
It's possible that materialism is direct contrast to what we truly are,
But it does not seem so to me.

Your soul is subject to all that the material body suffers because that is the vehicle in which you interface with this world. When the material body suffers injury, especially to the brain it's like looking through a warped image, even though the soul is untouched the vehicle cannot properly be operated. Say you were operating a car with a limp tire, well your steering will be effed up right? does that mean you as the driver will walk with a limp once you exit that car?
Imagine yourself operating any piece of machinery that suffers damage, only the machinery (physical body) will malfunction not the operator himself. As long as you are operating that machinery though, the damage will be noticeable. 

To my definition of the soul it exists 'quite materially, despite one's hopes is 'not unconquerable, free from the evil of mortal men.
All one needs do is interact with another in this material world, and the individual is affected.

The soul is certainly affected by the material world, as only an influence to act accordingly. I do not doubt that. Spirituality shows you the distinction of such influences, to where you as a soul can walk through this world as one just observing it.
The soul is not forced to react to any material influence, it chooses to, whether in a right state of mind or not. Whether in a strong state of mind or weak state of mind. Whatever state of mind though is how you will react or be influenced. The will of the conscious soul exists independent of the material body and material world. 






Lemming
Lemming's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 3,216
4
4
10
Lemming's avatar
Lemming
4
4
10
-->
@EtrnlVw
What is a soul to you,
Your definition of it,
Or gist of what you consider it?
EtrnlVw
EtrnlVw's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,869
3
3
5
EtrnlVw's avatar
EtrnlVw
3
3
5
What is a soul to you,
Your definition of it,
Or gist of what you consider it?

Soul itself is simply consciousness, at least that is the nature of it. It's the you that is observing everything that you experience through the physical body. It's more than what you just observe through the physical body though, but because your soul is confined to the physical body it creates the illusion that you are one with the body lol, or that the body is you. It's a neat trick, but that is what it is supposed to do. 
Your perceptions are filtered through the conduit of the brain like electricity through any component, and like electricity and energy consciousness exists independent of any component, appliance or form. The job of the brain and body are to filter your conscious experience through the conduit of the material body and confine your experience to its location, and as you entered the body through the womb your soul was caged to the brain and nervous system as it was developed, and all your perceptions as an individual were developed through those components. 
But you as the soul exist independent of those factors, and we clearly see the soul leaving the confines of the brain and physical body during NDE's, which of course presents evidence that the proposition of the soul is a real factor, not just something someone made up. 
The soul in a nutshell, is the immaterial self, the observer, the inner man that makes up who you really are. You aren't just a wad of neurons firing lol, your brain is simply a conduit that confines your conscious experience to a body. Neurons fire because your energetic soul needs a proper current and component to conduct its presence. As you exist within the body, the brain measures activity just like reading an electrical current through a circuit board, but the circuit board simply conducts the flow of electricity, it doesn't create it. Likewise the body and brain never create your conscious inner being, you were there before them and you will be there after them. 

zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 11,386
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@Lemming
LOL

What is a weirdo in the religious section?
Lemming
Lemming's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 3,216
4
4
10
Lemming's avatar
Lemming
4
4
10
-->
@zedvictor4
Same as weirdo's in 'other locations I suppose.
Just a slight different flavor.
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 11,386
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@Lemming
So how, lets ask, would you distinguish yourself from a "weirdo"?

Or is your appreciation of a "weirdo", just a subjective opinion of someone who appears not to think as you do?


It's just that your dialogue is usually quite rational.

"Weirdo"  seemed a tad out of keeping.
ebuc
ebuc's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,317
3
2
4
ebuc's avatar
ebuc
3
2
4
-->
@aaaa
After air, fresh water is the source of life. And i n Southeast Asia, early humans followed the fresh water rivers to their source in the high Himalayan mountains, ergo, the source of life is God, and in a 2D world of only above and below, the mountain highs were closet to the heavens above.







Lemming
Lemming's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 3,216
4
4
10
Lemming's avatar
Lemming
4
4
10
-->
@zedvictor4
weirdo
a person whose dress or behavior seems strange or eccentric.
strange
unusual or surprising in a way that is unsettling or hard to understand.
eccentric
(of a person or their behavior) unconventional and slightly strange.

Subjective, I suppose.
But subjective in the fashion, a number of people would agree with my view, I 'think.
Of certain types of individuals on various forums.
Though they agreeing or disagreeing, isn't the criteria, I'd say. But 'how they might do so, in either fashion.
EtrnlVw
EtrnlVw's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,869
3
3
5
EtrnlVw's avatar
EtrnlVw
3
3
5
-->
@Lemming
If you're used to the assumption that souls don't exist and accepting that your material body somehow creates consciousness I can imagine what I'm writing comes across as very foreign but since there's a very good chance what I'm saying is true then on the other hand it should also be somewhat innate to you. 
But please feel free to expand on the discussion or ask me anything about it. If you're open minded (which I get the sense you aren't a rigid jerk) at the very least I'll give you some legit things to consider. This part of the site could use a lot more normal and mature exchanges as well. 

BrotherDThomas
BrotherDThomas's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 2,140
3
3
7
BrotherDThomas's avatar
BrotherDThomas
3
3
7

.
ETRNLVW,

Any updates in how you showed the members within this thread that you continue to be an outright Bible fool in the following link, and that you want to apologize to them for leading them astray because what you thought you knew about said topics, YOU DIDN'T as shown by me correcting you?


Etrnlvw, you are only one of the many False Prophets that are growing in numbers within this prestigious forum, and Jesus and I, and many other astute members herein, will not stand for it. Therefore, be expected to be corrected relating to your Bible ignorance, of which you should be totally embarrassed!



zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 11,386
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@Lemming
So who do you think is a weirdo?
Lemming
Lemming's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 3,216
4
4
10
Lemming's avatar
Lemming
4
4
10
-->
@EtrnlVw
@zedvictor4
I am a 'bit rigid, about my view of the world, though in view, not conversation of it.
I've thought before, how I might try going about changing my view, of disbelief in the paranormal, supernatural, anything 'more than what I'm expecting.
Only method that comes to mind is a solitary road trip of every location I can lay ears on, that's claimed to 'be such,
But I expect such a search would come to naught.

Other than that, for me it's just asking people's view on souls, now and then, listening to what they say.


Well, BrotherDThomas, for one.
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 11,386
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@Lemming
Bro D is smarter than you might think.
Lemming
Lemming's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 3,216
4
4
10
Lemming's avatar
Lemming
4
4
10
-->
@zedvictor4
Quite possible.
EtrnlVw
EtrnlVw's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,869
3
3
5
EtrnlVw's avatar
EtrnlVw
3
3
5
-->
@zedvictor4
Bro D is smarter than you might think.

Lol doubtful, I've seen enough of his posts to get a good idea of what a dumb fool he is. Perhaps you're not that bright to begin with and that's why he appears "smart" to you. Your idea of smart and my idea of smart go in two different directions.
Even still, it has nothing to do with the fact he's a weirdo. And it doesn't surprise me you would think highly of one. 
EtrnlVw
EtrnlVw's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,869
3
3
5
EtrnlVw's avatar
EtrnlVw
3
3
5
-->
@Lemming
I am a 'bit rigid, about my view of the world, though in view, not conversation of it.
I've thought before, how I might try going about changing my view, of disbelief in the paranormal, supernatural, anything 'more than what I'm expecting.
Only method that comes to mind is a solitary road trip of every location I can lay ears on, that's claimed to 'be such,
But I expect such a search would come to naught.

Other than that, for me it's just asking people's view on souls, now and then, listening to what they say.

Well I wouldn't expect you to change your world view to prove you are open-minded, perhaps we all are a bit rigid after we accept a worldview. The first step is to consider information and knowledge, once you have good knowledge you can weigh that information against reality and your own intuition. 
A lot of people believe they can't trust their intuition or instincts, they seem to believe they have access to objective truths and perhaps there is some truth to that. The problem with that is objective facts may only correlate with one particular nature of experience, for example facts about nature or the material world are only true about the material world and they don't exceed those boundaries. They don't reveal what's true beyond the threshold of the material experience, and you could end up believing that's all that exists. 

What people might not consider is that intuition is not a conditioned process, whereas other people's thoughts about reality can be. But because there are indeed objective truths about reality, it's good practice to consider your intuition as a means to come to terms with what body of knowledge is true. 
If I can give you information that makes sense to your rational mind, you should consider and in that alone you are being flexible and open-minded rather than just fluffing it off or mocking me. 
The reason it's good that we expand on any discussion about spirituality is so you can see how it all fits together and works. Not anybody can do that, actually the majority of religious people are fixated on a particular dogma and they really don't care whether or not you understand the mechanics and more than not, they can't get to the mechanics anyways because their ideology cannot connect to reality. 

Here's an objective fact for you, there's more evidence and experience for spirituality over the course of human history than any other single topic. As a matter of fact human experience and spiritual phenomenon are so intertwined together they are nearly inseparable as a pair. If you were to take that fact at face value without having any preconceived ideas about it, you have a solid starting point to consider that there is indeed a transcendent reality. 
NDE's for example, are flat out evidence that the soul exists independent of the physical body. Yet, you don't have to believe that and can make up all kinds of excuses for why people could leave the confines of the brain and body and have clear conscious experiences but it doesn't change the fact that we have evidence in favor of the proposition of a soul. Now if we add in paranormal encounters that take place all over the world the evidence is incredibly overwhelming that souls exist outside the domain of the material construct, and we can get into the mechanics of how that works.
The tendency to assert that people are just imagining crap will stem from the assumption that the material world is all that exists, and God is just a product of wishful thinking. Let me remind you how foolish that is to sweep mounds of evidence under the rug just for a false worldview. The truth be told, atheism has no way of accounting for the full scope of human experience and to believe it's a superior way of life is nonsense. 

But as I said earlier, at some point you're going to begin to rub shoulders with your spiritual nature because that is what you truly are. Time is not an issue here though, you can play the material world game as long as you like because your spiritual journey is endless. The downfall is that your own beliefs will determine your experience, your canvas will never take on new images as long as you keep painting materialism all over it. You can't experience something beyond what you believe. The best way to be open-minded and take on new experience is to keep your canvas fresh and new, ready to be painted over with reality that extends beyond your current beliefs. This will probably happen several times over because spirituality is a cultivation, the reality of creation and God are so vast and dynamic you will always encounter fresh knowledge. 
When you leave this world you want to have gathered and considered as much useful information possible, it's more fun when you can control your own journey rather than just blowing in the wind. It's not all just about gathering info either, there's many things for you to apply and experience. 




Lemming
Lemming's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 3,216
4
4
10
Lemming's avatar
Lemming
4
4
10
-->
@EtrnlVw
Thanks for the words.
I'll admit intuition has value, but I'm sure you'll admit yourself that it's not everything.
We have different conclusions, of what amounted to evidence over the years, I think.
I'll also admit there is often value in having an open ear to ideas, even those one disagree with.
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 11,386
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@EtrnlVw
HaHa......Ethanesque goading.....Kind of weird.

And one persons normal is another persons weird, and vice versa.


And Bro D achieves, what they set out to achieve....And walks away unscathed.

I am always entertained but never respond......As response is futile.....And that's what makes Bro D smarter than you.


Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,344
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@BrotherDThomas
False prophets are everywhere in this forum, like Etrnlvw, Tradesecret, the departed Fauxlaw, and many others within this Religion Forum,

Fauxlaw is probably as we speak trawling my threads for material for his new book. That would be novel wouldn't it Brother?  A book authored by a "High Priest"#36 that shows the New Testament to be nothing more than a myth wrapped around a very human Jew king minus the "miracles" and certainly no Christians in said Jew kings time.


and it is our job to bring them out in shame, praise Jesus!

The bible does that for me all on its own Brother, I am just the medium by which to show  that the  bible itself shows just how bible ignorant they all are, ESPECIALLY our resident man in three persons the  Pastor, Lawyer and Chaplain,  the Reverend ethang dimwit "Tradey" Tradesecrete.#20


BrotherDThomas
BrotherDThomas's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 2,140
3
3
7
BrotherDThomas's avatar
BrotherDThomas
3
3
7
-->
@Stephen
@Tradesecret


Stephen, the Hell bound Atheist that knows more about the Bible than any pseudo-christian upon this forum,

YOUR REVEALING QUOTE OF TRUTH: "ESPECIALLY our resident man in three persons the  Pastor, Lawyer and Chaplain,  the Reverend ethang dimwit "Tradey" Tradesecrete.#20"

Yes, we have our own Trinity in the likes of the ever so Bible ignorant, and runaway of same, Tradesecret!  Facetiously, since Tradesecret is allegedly a Pastor, Lawyer, and Chaplain, *cough,* we can only wonder in which of these characters is the he, she, or unknown?

Since Tradesecret hasn't changed their profile gender of "unknown" to a male, as Tradesecret has said they are "at this time," do you think that the "unknown" gender status that remains is an ungodly HERMAPHRODITE?!  BLASPHEME!

.


BrotherDThomas
BrotherDThomas's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 2,140
3
3
7
BrotherDThomas's avatar
BrotherDThomas
3
3
7


.

ETRNLVW QUOTE REGARDING THE BROTHER D. IN THEIR POST #45: “Lol doubtful, I've seen enough of his posts to get a good idea of what a dumb fool he is.” 

Your inept wishful thinking fallacy is duly noted at your expense once again.  Tell the membership, are your totally embarrassing posts you’ve made within this forum shown below considered to be smart in your behalf of being THE BIBLICAL FOOL THAT YOU ARE?  NOT!  LOL!  PRICELESS! 

ETRNLVW, one of my favorites is when you stupidly and blatantly contradicted yourself, where at first you stated it is a fact that souls exist. Then, in another post you stated that “if souls exist …” which is not an absolute like when you said as fact that they did exist!  HELLO?

ETRNLVW, yes, another favorite is when you directly went against Jesus’ inspired words, as one example of MANY examples, is shown below in you using despicable “foul language!” 

ETRNLVW, you slap Jesus in the face AGAIN relative to His inspired words by being a “potty mouth” AGAIN in this verse: But now you must put them all away: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and obscene talk from your mouth.” (Colossians 3:8)

ETRNLVW, another one of your “not so smart” posts is when you turn into a HYPOCRITE in the name of Satan as embarrassingly shown herewith: 

ETRNLVW, remember when you promoted “reincarnation” which is no part of Christianity whatsoever? OMG, this was one of your many embarrassing Satanic moments of many: https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/5849-the-problem-of-suffering?page=4&post_number=91

ETRNLVW, remember when you had to runaway from my superior biblical knowledge over your grade-school knowledge of same in this link, where the biblical topic you could not address, other than to RUNAWAY from it FIVE TIMES!:


ETRNLVW, to save yourself from even further ungodly embarrassment in front of the membership, and to give you the time needed in wiping the proverbial egg from your face once again, I have only included the above STUPID MISTAKES you’ve made upon this forum, where comically you assume that you are smart relative to Christianity? Surely you jest! LOL!   You can thank me later.


NEXT TOTALLY  BIBLE INEPT FOOL LIKE ETRNLVW WILL BE … ?

.
Polytheist-Witch
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 4,188
3
3
6
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Polytheist-Witch
3
3
6
Are you spirituality is anything that helps a person to improve themselves or bring them peace without necessarily a god involved. This could be meditation or fly fishing.
Lemming
Lemming's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 3,216
4
4
10
Lemming's avatar
Lemming
4
4
10
-->
@Polytheist-Witch
Well, I have heard of team spirit, fighting spirit, spirited individuals.
That is to say, lively individuals.
People mindfully active in existence, is it, your definition of spirituality?
Castin
Castin's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,224
3
2
7
Castin's avatar
Castin
3
2
7
-->
@aaaa
Is it ever talked about in the Bible?
I'm not aware of any place where it's explicitly explained. The most common answer I hear from Christians is probably "God wants us to worship him because it's good for us." I'm also not aware of where the Bible explicitly says this. I take it to be extrabiblical interpretation on their part. Perhaps someone will educate me on which passages this comes from.

The impression I get from the Bible is that God simply deserves worship because he is that great, that glorious, and that powerful -- that his very existence compels and demands worship in the same way that the very existence of a black hole bends the fabric of space-time. I believe we get our word "worship" from an older word that meant something like "worthship." In the Bible, God is simply worth it, knows it, and considers worship his due.
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,344
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@Castin
 I believe we get our word "worship" from an older word that meant something like "worthship." In the Bible, God is simply worth it, knows it, and considers worship his due.

I thought it came from the original meaning of  workship? I will get back you on that.
Castin
Castin's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,224
3
2
7
Castin's avatar
Castin
3
2
7
-->
@Stephen
Sure, I'm curious. 👍 I was going off of Wikipedia's etymology for it, but it's not like they've never been wrong before.
Tradesecret
Tradesecret's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 3,353
3
2
6
Tradesecret's avatar
Tradesecret
3
2
6
-->
@aaaa
This is a good question but it does presume things doesn't? 

Why does God want to be worshipped?
I say worship is inevitable.  And inescapable. It is never a matter of worship or no worship - but who will worship who? 

If I don't worship God, then I will worship something else.  This is inevitable. It is impossible not to worship something or someone 100% of the time.

Worship comes from the word  which means "worthy ship". What is worthy?  Everyday people worship many things throughout the day. 

Even Atheists worship. Mostly they worship themselves.  They devote their lives to serving themselves.  Some people worship their families.  Stephen conceded the same at one point (even if it was being tongue in cheek) 

Therefore the notion of God desiring worship is not at all absurd or crazy.  Given that God is the creator of the universe he is worthy to be worshiped.  Yet he is also the determiner of truth and perfectness. It makes sense to devote yourself to things that are true and perfect.  It would be irrational not to. 

To show gratitude to someone who does things for us is not a bad thing. In fact if our children were ungrateful to us - it would show a lack of love by them to us. If people are ungrateful to the government - it is often seen as civil disobedience or foolishness.

Worship in inevitable. And it is also inescapable. People will always worship something or someone.   It is always going to a question of whom? 


Double_R
Double_R's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 4,335
3
2
5
Double_R's avatar
Double_R
3
2
5
Any God that needs worship is a God that’s not worthy of worship.
Tradesecret
Tradesecret's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 3,353
3
2
6
Tradesecret's avatar
Tradesecret
3
2
6
-->
@Double_R
Any God that needs worship is a God that’s not worthy of worship.
Interesting comment, but what is the basis of that thought?   It, respectfully, seems like you are defining what a god should be like or not like.    Where does that come from?  Just curious. 
Double_R
Double_R's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 4,335
3
2
5
Double_R's avatar
Double_R
3
2
5
-->
@Tradesecret
It comes from myself. The need to be worshipped is demonstrative of ego and narcissism. Why would anyone find that worthy of worshipping?