Atheists can&#39;t do good as Atheists.

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08.18.2021 12:25PM

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08.18.2021 12:25PM

Don't misunderstand me. But an Atheist can only do one thing. And I have been told this over and over on this forum. There is no Atheistic worldview. There are no atheistic doctrines. There are just atheists who ALL "don't believe in God". In fact this is their only - non-belief. LOL!

So if someone who calls themselves an Atheist - does good or is benevolent to someone - it is not the result of their atheism. In fact that would be impossible. Because if it was - then this would be implying that there are positive beliefs that flow from atheism. But we know that it is not true.

So how then can an atheist do good things if it does not flow from their atheistic view?

It is because they have to borrow from other worldviews - things like morality and goodness and well, everything for that matter. They are really a lot like leaches aren't they?

Atheists therefore only ever do good works and benevolent things when they borrow them from someone else. And given that there is not an atheistic worldview - it must flow from a non-atheistic worldview and understanding of the world. Atheists do good not because they are atheists but because they borrow from religious worldviews. Don't you love this?

So every time an atheist does anything good - they actually reveal a belief in god - and religion even if they with their mouths and their minds are atheists. This is such an amusing thing.

How will the Atheist rationalize this? Well we will wait and find out.

#2

Sum1hugme

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08.18.2021 01:55PM

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@Tradesecret

I ground morality in reason, and not arbitrarily either. So I can do good things and be properly motivated without believing in a god.

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ludofl3x

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08.18.2021 02:01PM

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I try to do good things because it improves the world I live in in some way, which is different than "It makes my life better." I'm not sure how that borrows anything, but I agree, it has nothing to do with atheism. Please provide your path to arrival at this conclusion:

It is because they have to borrow from other worldviews - things like morality and goodness and well, everything for that matter. They are really a lot like leaches aren't they?

Do you do good because if you don't, God will get mad? Potentially punish you?

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SkepticalOne

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08.18.2021 02:15PM

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@Tradesecret

So how then can an atheist do good things if it does not flow from their atheistic view?

...because they have a worldview which isn't atheism or religion - Humanism for example.

#5

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https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/pope-francis-assures-atheists-you-don-t-have-to-believe-in-god-to-go-to-heaven-8810062.html

08.18.2021 03:07PM

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08.18.2021 03:07PM

Pope Francis assures atheists: You don’t have to believe in God to go to heaven.

“You ask me if the God of the Christians forgives those who don’t believe and who don’t seek the faith. I start by saying – and this is the fundamental thing – that God’s mercy has no limits if you go to him with a sincere and contrite heart. The issue for those who do not believe in God is to obey their conscience.

“Sin, even for those who have no faith, exists when people disobey their conscience.”

But what would he know? He's only the Pope

#6

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08.18.2021 03:13PM

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08.18.2021 03:13PM

Humanists recognize that it is only when people feel free to think for themselves, using reason as their guide, that they are best capable of developing values that succeed in satisfying human needs and serving human interests.

-Isaac Asimov, 1984 Humanist of the Year and Past AHA President

Issac Asimov was an atheist.

#7

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08.18.2021 04:17PM

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08.18.2021 04:17PM

Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.” -Matthew 19:21-24

Evangelist Kenneth Copeland: Net Worth $760 Million

I'm guessing that secretly he is an atheist.

#8

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08.18.2021 05:17PM

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08.18.2021 05:17PM

Imagine asking someone if they are a atheist, and they reply with. ' Ummmmmm yeah i think so. They are the ones who don't believe in god right '

Like not really caring about it. ( Because some people don't )

Its kinda like EATING CHILDREN. Picture the day or the verse that made you not want to eat kids.

No thats not right.

Picture a atheist doing something in spite of the bible.

Or.

Not having, Fight or Flight buttttttttt atheism or god.

And or.

If atheists can't do good as atheists.

Anddddddd

Catholics can't do good as catholics.

Being Agnostic must be spot on.

Butttttttttt.

The sentence then arrives

A agnostic can't do good as a agnostic.

Hang on, being agnostic may be different then being theistic orrrrr atheistic. It definitely should not be but it feels like it is.

And the time you've been a atheist needs to be taken into account.

To sum it up.

Atheists can't do good as atheists.

Correct.

Well it sounds right. Nice post.

#9

Theweakeredge

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08.18.2021 05:23PM

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@Tradesecret

Nobody has morality from their belief (or none) belief in god, rather, they grant if from other sources - in cases of theist its the religion around their god, not their god himself. Atheists actually show some of this some, typically the community around which they are atheists, whether that be humanists or conservatives. You see: people tend to get their morality from their communities - that's true of all humans.

#10

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08.18.2021 05:26PM

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08.18.2021 05:26PM

Can i get the numbers on.

Religious extremists.

And

Atheistic extremists. Please.

#11

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08.18.2021 06:24PM

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08.18.2021 06:24PM

Islamic Extremist:

Hey let's go bomb an embassy

Christian Extremist:

Hey, let's go bomb an abortion clinic

Atheist Extremist:

Hey, let's go drink microbrews and talk about OUTER SPACE!

#12

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08.18.2021 07:01PM

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@Stephen

@Tradesecret

@Bones

.

TRADESECRET, whose gender went from a woman to a man, and then to unknown, and now back to a man, the Debate Runaway on Jesus' true MO, Bible denier of Jesus being the Trinity God in the OT, the runaway to what division of Christianity he/she/unknown follows, the pseudo-christian that has committed the Unpardonable Sin, the number 1 Bible ignorant fool regarding Noah's ark, the pseudo-christian that says kids that curse their parents should be killed, states there is FICTION within the scriptures, and is guilty of Revelation 22:18-19 and 2 Timothy 4:3, AN ADMITTED SEXUAL DEVIANT, and obviously had ungodly Gender Reassignment Surgery, Satanic Bible Rewriter, an embarrassed LIAR of their true gender, and goes against Jesus in not helping the poor, has turned into a HYPOCRITE, and a LIAR, teaches Christianity at Universities in a “blind leading the blind” scenario, and is a False Prophet, says that Jesus is rational when He commits abortions and makes His creation eat their children, and that Jesus is rational when He allows innocent babies to be smashed upon the rocks,

Why are you wasting your time with yet another ignorant rambling post relative to the Atheists where it is meaningless, and that continues to show your outright Biblical stupidity!!! Your thread is senseless, as usual, because Atheists will be going to our glorious 1400 square mile Heaven as well, with its 60 foot walls, that will hopefully keep out the Satanic Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses, AND YOU! Do I have to easily "School you once again upon this biblical axiom?!" YES?

Tradesecret, now pay close attention, okay? The JUDEO-Christian Bible explicitly states that EVERYONE is going to heaven, matter not their works or believing in our serial killer Jesus as Yahweh God incarnate, understood Bible fool?

“For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.” (1 Timothy 4:10)

Tradesecret, now take off your pointed aluminum hat for a moment, and at least "try" to understand simple biblical syntactical deductions, where it states in the verse above; "all men" and "especially of believers." GET IT? Huh, you Bible simpleton fool! AGAIN, “All men,” especially of believers, as in addition to all men that are not believers, as in Atheists and other faiths that contradict the Christian one, will in fact be saved regardless of whether anyone believes or not!

#13

janesix

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janesix

08.18.2021 07:18PM

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@Tradesecret

concience.

#14

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https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/6594-diversity-of-religious-experience-a-problem-for-monotheists-from-a-polytheist-prospective?page=2&post_number=26

08.18.2021 07:19PM

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@Tradesecret

.

TRADESECRET, whose gender went from a woman to a man, and then to unknown, and now back to a man, the Debate Runaway on Jesus' true MO, Bible denier of Jesus being the Trinity God in the OT, the runaway to what division of Christianity he/she/unknown follows, the pseudo-christian that has committed the Unpardonable Sin, the number 1 Bible ignorant fool regarding Noah's ark, the pseudo-christian that says kids that curse their parents should be killed, states there is FICTION within the scriptures, and is guilty of Revelation 22:18-19 and 2 Timothy 4:3, AN ADMITTED SEXUAL DEVIANT, and obviously had ungodly Gender Reassignment Surgery, Satanic Bible Rewriter, an embarrassed LIAR of their true gender, and goes against Jesus in not helping the poor, has turned into a HYPOCRITE, and a LIAR, teaches Christianity at Universities in a “blind leading the blind” scenario, and is a False Prophet, says that Jesus is rational when He commits abortions and makes His creation eat their children, and that Jesus is rational when He allows innocent babies to be smashed upon the rocks,

Tradesecret, now, for Jesus and I to further along your Biblical stupidity and ignorance, get your sorry Satanic ass back into the discussion in the links below, where Jesus and I haven't even started upon your Bible ineptness! MOVE! NOW! and DO NOT come up with further lame excuses to run from said links below in front of the membership that you are to fully address! UNDERSTOOD?

https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/6594-diversity-of-religious-experience-a-problem-for-monotheists-from-a-polytheist-prospective?page=2&post_number=27

What are you waiting for, I said GO! HURRY! Just don't sit there like a blithering ne'er-do-well AGAIN! GO and bring a lot of changes of underwear!!!!

.

#15

Double_R

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08.18.2021 08:23PM

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@Tradesecret

Theism and atheism are positions on a single proposition - ‘a god exists’. If you believe that proposition you’re a theist. If you do not believe that proposition you’re an atheist.

You’re confusing a person’s position on a single proposition… with a person. The fact that one does not believe in a god tells us nothing about what they do believe in regarding morality or where it comes from. That’s where we look at other positions regarding morality. Humanism for example.

The idea that an atheist must borrow from a theistic world view to do or be good is nonsense. Both atheists and theists get their morality from the same place - within themselves. You can’t say god is good if you haven’t yet figured out what you think the word good means.

#16

Bones

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Bones

08.18.2021 11:10PM

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@Tradesecret

Like you said, Atheism is not a world view, so obviously it is not a structure for morality. If you want a world view, adopt some world view, such as Sam Harris' moral landscape. Also, like Edge said, everyone gets their morality from an unknown source, and internal compass. You chose the bible because it aligns with this compass.

Topic's author

#17

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08.19.2021 03:51AM

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@Sum1hugme

I ground morality in reason, and not arbitrarily either. So I can do good things and be properly motivated without believing in a god.

Whatever does that mean? What type of "reason" do you ground it in? How do you know it is properly motivated?

Topic's author

#18

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08.19.2021 03:57AM

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@ludofl3x

I try to do good things because it improves the world I live in in some way, which is different than "It makes my life better."

Why do you think you ought to do good? How do you determine if it improves it or not?

I'm not sure how that borrows anything, but I agree, it has nothing to do with atheism. Please provide your path to arrival at this conclusion:

Well obviously it is derived from atheism. But it doesn't just arrive from nowhere?

Thank you for asking. I intend to start a new thread about this sometime in the next month. I will get to it then. After all, this thread is not about me but primarily about atheists.

It is because they have to borrow from other worldviews - things like morality and goodness and well, everything for that matter. They are really a lot like leaches aren't they?

Do you do good because if you don't, God will get mad? Potentially punish you?

I do good because it pleases God. Not because he might punish me - but because I love God and like to please him. And also it makes sense rationally. For instance I don't kill people. I do this because I value life. I value life because God is the author of life. And I want to be like him.

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#19

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@SkepticalOne

So how then can an atheist do good things if it does not flow from their atheistic view?
...because they have a worldview which isn't atheism or religion - Humanism for example.

Thanks for that SkepticalOne. And thank you for acknowledging that atheists can't do good simply as an atheist. Humanism of course is a worldview - and there are a few different types. Would you consider it to be an Atheistic worldview? Or is it a religious one? Hmmm, why did the early humanists desire to do good?

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#20

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@Stephen

Pope Francis assures atheists: You don’t have to believe in God to go to heaven.

Ok. I am a protestant of course - so the pope is just another person. He is the head of his church. This is true. But are you saying he is infallible and we must believe everything he says? Or can he make mistakes? And is this his infallible word - or his mistake? Why is it relevant to the topic?

“You ask me if the God of the Christians forgives those who don’t believe and who don’t seek the faith. I start by saying – and this is the fundamental thing – that God’s mercy has no limits if you go to him with a sincere and contrite heart. The issue for those who do not believe in God is to obey their conscience.

Ok. Again I am not sure your point. But he is not an atheist. Is he? Or maybe he is?

“Sin, even for those who have no faith, exists when people disobey their conscience.”

Ok.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/pope-francis-assures-atheists-you-don-t-have-to-believe-in-god-to-go-to-heaven-8810062.html

But what would he know? He's only the Pope

Are you saying the pope knows what he is talking about? You are full of surprises aren't you Stephen? Which statements are correct and which ones are not?

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#21

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08.19.2021 04:06AM

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@FLRW

Humanists recognize that it is only when people feel free to think for themselves, using reason as their guide, that they are best capable of developing values that succeed in satisfying human needs and serving human interests.
-Isaac Asimov, 1984 Humanist of the Year and Past AHA President

Issac Asimov was an atheist.

Thanks FLRW

Are you saying that atheists have a worldview. That certainly is what it looks like. How many other positive doctrines does the worldview of Atheism have? I am sure all of your fellow atheists would love to know.

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#22

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08.19.2021 04:08AM

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@FLRW

Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.” -Matthew 19:21-24

Evangelist Kenneth Copeland: Net Worth $760 Million

I'm guessing that secretly he is an atheist.

IDK. Perhaps he is. I never thought he was a christian. He is far to hindu and new agey for me. But tell me - what has this to do with Atheist's doing good.

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#23

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@Deb-8-a-bull

Imagine asking someone if they are a atheist, and they reply with. ' Ummmmmm yeah i think so. They are the ones who don't believe in god right '
Like not really caring about it. ( Because some people don't )

Its kinda like EATING CHILDREN. Picture the day or the verse that made you not want to eat kids.
No thats not right.

Picture a atheist doing something in spite of the bible.
Or.
Or.
Not having, Fight or Flight buttttttttt atheism or god.

And or.
If atheists can't do good as atheists.
Anddddddd
Catholics can't do good as catholics.
Being Agnostic must be spot on.
Butttttttttt.
The sentence then arrives
A agnostic can't do good as a agnostic.
Hang on, being agnostic may be different then being theistic orrrrr atheistic. It definitely should not be but it feels like it is.

And the time you've been a atheist needs to be taken into account.

To sum it up.
Atheists can't do good as atheists.
Correct.
Well it sounds right. Nice post.

Hi Deb,

I never know how to respond to your posts. You baffle me entirely. Thanks though for posting.

Topic's author

#24

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08.19.2021 04:12AM

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@Theweakeredge

Nobody has morality from their belief (or none) belief in god, rather, they grant if from other sources - in cases of theist its the religion around their god, not their god himself. Atheists actually show some of this some, typically the community around which they are atheists, whether that be humanists or conservatives. You see: people tend to get their morality from their communities - that's true of all humans.

Which worldview are you taking this piece of philosophy from? Or are you making it up on the spot?

Good to see you acknowledge that it does not arise from being an atheist.

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#25

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08.19.2021 04:15AM

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@BrotherDThomas

TRADESECRET, whose gender went from a woman to a man, and then to unknown, and now back to a man, the Debate Runaway on Jesus' true MO, Bible denier of Jesus being the Trinity God in the OT, the runaway to what division of Christianity he/she/unknown follows, the pseudo-christian that has committed the Unpardonable Sin, the number 1 Bible ignorant fool regarding Noah's ark, the pseudo-christian that says kids that curse their parents should be killed, states there is FICTION within the scriptures, and is guilty of Revelation 22:18-19 and 2 Timothy 4:3, AN ADMITTED SEXUAL DEVIANT, and obviously had ungodly Gender Reassignment Surgery, Satanic Bible Rewriter, an embarrassed LIAR of their true gender, and goes against Jesus in not helping the poor, has turned into a HYPOCRITE, and a LIAR, teaches Christianity at Universities in a “blind leading the blind” scenario, and is a False Prophet, says that Jesus is rational when He commits abortions and makes His creation eat their children, and that Jesus is rational when He allows innocent babies to be smashed upon the rocks,

Not relevant to the topic of Atheism doing good.

Why are you wasting your time with yet another ignorant rambling post relative to the Atheists where it is meaningless, and that continues to show your outright Biblical stupidity!!! Your thread is senseless, as usual, because Atheists will be going to our glorious 1400 square mile Heaven as well, with its 60 foot walls, that will hopefully keep out the Satanic Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses, AND YOU! Do I have to easily "School you once again upon this biblical axiom?!" YES?

Not relevant to the topic. I never said in this thread that atheists are not going to heaven. I only indicated that atheists cannot do good simply because they are atheists. I feel this has gone way over your head.

Tradesecret, now pay close attention, okay? The JUDEO-Christian Bible explicitly states that EVERYONE is going to heaven, matter not their works or believing in our serial killer Jesus as Yahweh God incarnate, understood Bible fool?

“For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.” (1 Timothy 4:10)

See above.

Tradesecret, now take off your pointed aluminum hat for a moment, and at least "try" to understand simple biblical syntactical deductions, where it states in the verse above; "all men" and "especially of believers." GET IT? Huh, you Bible simpleton fool! AGAIN, “All men,” especially of believers, as in addition to all men that are not believers, as in Atheists and other faiths that contradict the Christian one, will in fact be saved regardless of whether anyone believes or not!

This topic is not about heaven or getting to heaven. It is about whether Atheists can do good or not.

Topic's author

#26

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08.19.2021 04:17AM

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@janesix

concience.

Cool answer. But what is a conscience? Is it material or immaterial? Is it part of the soul or part of the brain? Is the brain the mind?

Do Atheist's have a conscience? How did it evolve?

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#27

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@Double_R

Theism and atheism are positions on a single proposition - ‘a god exists’. If you believe that proposition you’re a theist. If you do not believe that proposition you’re an atheist.

You’re confusing a person’s position on a single proposition… with a person. The fact that one does not believe in a god tells us nothing about what they do believe in regarding morality or where it comes from. That’s where we look at other positions regarding morality. Humanism for example.

The idea that an atheist must borrow from a theistic world view to do or be good is nonsense. Both atheists and theists get their morality from the same place - within themselves. You can’t say god is good if you haven’t yet figured out what you think the word good means.

Thanks for your thoughts.

I don't think I am confusing the two. It is the Atheist who says they do not have a worldview. The Theist totally accepts he has a worldview. In fact - it is pretty much only the Atheist who denies he has one.

Morality does not fall out of the sky. Our morality typically comes from our environments. America and the UK and Canada and Australia have similar types of morality. Not the same exactly, but their morality is much more similar than Eastern Cultures such as China, and Cambodia, and Vietnam. One morality in that sense is not necessarily better than another. But they are similar. Interestingly their law codes and religious codes are also reasonably similar,.

Can you name a non-theistic worldview? Communism? Humanism has become a secular one. But even secular thinking is a religious doctrine. And developed by religious people originally. Communism is probably the closest thing we have to a non-theistic worldview - that and fascism. The two worldviews which have caused more damage to the world than everything else together in history.

Define good. Again you reveal a worldview. Is good good because God calls it good or is God good because good exists?

Thanks for playing.

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@Bones

Like you said, Atheism is not a world view, so obviously it is not a structure for morality. If you want a world view, adopt some world view, such as Sam Harris' moral landscape. Also, like Edge said, everyone gets their morality from an unknown source, and internal compass. You chose the bible because it aligns with this compass.

Can Edge prove this statement? Who said I chose the bible? But you are correct Atheists do not have the capacity to be good simply because they are an atheist.

#29

zedvictor4

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@Tradesecret

A load of baloney Trade.

Easily rationalized.

Data management, putting an A before the T.

Apart from this there is no real difference between a theist and an atheist.

#30

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