Christians can’t do good as Christians!

Author: BrotherDThomas

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#1
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Don't misunderstand me. But an assumed Christian can only do one thing. And I have been told this over and over on this forum. There is no Christian worldview. There are no Christian doctrines that we follow all the time because we cherry pick them at will, and let the disturbing doctrines remain on the side, and if we did follow a few of these disturbing doctrines, we would be doing prison time in the name of Jesus. There are just Christians who ALL believe in Jesus in so many different ways because of so many contradicting divisions of the  faith!  In fact this is our only belief in who in the Hell is the real Jesus?!     LOL!

So if someone who calls themselves a Christian - does good or is benevolent to someone - it is not the result of their Christianity.   In fact that would be impossible.  Because if it was - then this would be implying that there are positive beliefs that flow from Christianity even when the Bible contradicts itself ad infinitum.  But we know that has to be untrue, even though it does. 

So how then can a Christian do good things if it does not always flow from their Christian view?  

It is because they have to borrow from other world views that preceded Christianity- things like morality and goodness and well, everything for that matter.  They are really a lot like leaches aren't we? 

Assumed Christians therefore only ever do good works and benevolent things when they borrow them from someone else, like Christianity did from many  previous religions, especially Mithraism that was copied by Christianity verbatim!!!   And given that there is not an Christian worldview because our divisions of the faith contradict each other - it must flow from a non-Christian worldview and understanding of the world.  Assumed Christians do good not because they are Christians, but because Jesus tells them to be good for their salvation.  Don't you love this? 

So every time a Christian does anything good - they actually reveal a belief in Humanism even if they with their mouths and their minds are Christians.  This is such an amusing thing.  

I as being the only True Christian upon this forum have had to accept the above facts towards Christianity.

How will the assumed Christian rationalize this? Well we will wait and find out won’t we.  

#2
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@BrotherDThomas

The Lord told the Prophet BrotherDThomas, “This generation shall have my word through you”, and “Thou shalt continue in calling upon God in my name, and writing the things which shall be given thee by the Comforter, and expounding all scriptures unto the church”.
#3
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When BrotherDThomas was 14 years old, he wanted to know which church he should join, so he asked God in sincere prayer. In response to this prayer, God the Father and His Son, Jesus Christ, appeared to BrotherD and told him the true Church of Jesus Christ was not on the earth and They had chosen BrotherD to restore it.
#4
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@BrotherDThomas
“The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting. It has been found difficult; and left untried.” - G.K. Chesterton

Until it is honestly tried, in total, your accusation of humanism is, itself, incomplete an premature.
#5
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@BrotherDThomas
Well Bother D,

Thanks for the compliment.  After all, "Imitation is the sincerest of flattery."



#6
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@BrotherDThomas
 Assumed Christians do good not because they are Christians, but because Jesus tells them to be good for their salvation.  

(1)
I mentioned sometime ago in my thread about "Reward" Brother, saying;  "to be  offering compensation for these things, rather than teaching that true morality only takes place when you want to do what you are doing, is educationally and developmentally debilitating. The sermon on the mount on the other hand does not teach that we should do good things simply because it is the right thing to do." https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/6566-reward-does-it-fly-in-the-face-of-jesus-own-teachings

Jesus tells them to be good....

(2) Jesus also appears to tell them to do bad too and in contradiction to what other things he tells us we should do.

Luke 22:36 Buy weapons at any cost.

Luke 14:26 Hate almost everyone you know including family.

Matthew 10:16 Be two faced.  Interesting it is that here, Jesus attributes great  wisdom on the serpent although it was the serpent that had corrupted all of mankind, isn't it Brother?

Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.Matthew 10:16


There are no Christian doctrines that we follow all the time because we cherry pick them at will, and let the disturbing doctrines remain on the side, and if we did follow a few of these disturbing doctrines, we would be doing prison time in the name of Jesus.

Indeed you would. But thankfully at least there has been a reformation and Christians no longer want to stone their children to death for just being naughty or disobedient.


In fact this is our only belief in who in the Hell is the real Jesus?!    

Well I believe I could answer that Brother but suffice it to say, that Jesus came from a time, place and culture that most Christians are too thick to understand or have even bothered to have researched themselves but are happy to be led by the snout to  only the fluffy passages and verses showing Jesus to be a "prince of peace"and have been steered away from those verses that show your "serial killer" god in a completely different light to the one they want to  believe in.

A good post Brother, not to mention honest.  10/10



 

#7
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@BrotherDThomas
I have an idea. Let's amass the whole of Christians and put them all in the same bucket; maybe even the bucket you occupy, since you're so sure of your assessment of all Christians, might as well be closely associated with them. 

Oh, did someone say everyone is the same, even the finite number of all Christians?

Nope, no one ever said that but our BrotherD, so he must think it's true. Welcome to your bucket. It might be lonelier than you think.
#8
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When you say Christians.
You mean like ummmmm.
Orthodox .
And
catholics,
Eastie
Westie
seventh day adventist christians 
Jehovah witness christian

Jewish christian ?

Mormon christian.

Why there has to be close to ONE HUNDRED  different types of these Christians. 
Ha
HeHe.  
So With ONE HUNDRED diffrent types of Christians 
Hehe
It needs to be looked at on a case to case. 

And With 100.
Thats ONE HUNDRED different types of Christians 
Ha.
Ha.
There very well may be a ummmmmm,  good for mind  so to speak christian denomination. 
No?

Yeah probably not. 

If you took ALLLLLLLLLL the " positives " from alllllllll the ( HUNDRED lol )  christian groups .
Christians with a  ( s ) on the end.  
Christians as a whole 
Can do good as Christians.  
Thus.
Christians cant do good as Christians. 

But
But.
No.
Look Im confused now. 
Im going to need some more time.


PASS..





 
#9
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Sooooo
Christians  can't do good as Christians.
Is very different to.
A Christian can't do good as ( a  Christian  )
#10
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@Deb-8-a-bull
Sooooo
Christians  can't do good as Christians.
Is very different to.
A Christian can't do good as ( a  Christian  )
I know you are just teasing, but you still raise lots of interesting ideas. 

Firstly, what is good?


Secondly, Who determines something is good? 




#11
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@Tradesecret
What is good You ask.   Lots of stuff that i can't really rattle off. 

Good to goodist.  
Is that a word?

And bad to badist.
You know what i mean hey?  
There would have to be a line hey?   Good things ranging to bad things. 
And Somtimes in certain situations some bad things turning good.and good turning bad. 

Who determines this.   
It is a good question and you want to answer it real quick with  ( i do ) 
I determine if something is good or bad. 
And as soon as you think this , it turns to the opposite. 
Everyone but i determines good or bad. 

Thennnnnnnnn if the act was committed by you toooooooo, did it involve me. 

And this is if the opposite of good is bad,  not evil.  I'm not sure what evil is. 

Sorry for my spelling in advance trade. 

To sum it up.
Well i can't. 
#12
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Is NOT eating kids a good thing ?.
Or is eating kids a bad thing ?

Am i good for never hitting a female?
#13
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People need to be rewarded more for not doing bad things maybe. 

Like if you make it to the age of 50 and have not raped a single women wellllll, 
YOU GET A TROPHY. 
Or like a certificate that declares . John Smith has never forced himself apon a female. 

75 years old and never killed a single person.   Certificate.  
 
#14
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Certificates

50 years of age and has never thrown a single rock at cars. 
30 years of age and has never light a fire.
25 years of age and has never drove a motor vehicle whilst intoxicated. 

Keeping in mind that It is only illegal if you get caught. 

#15
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@Tradesecret
Firstly, what is good?

Are the words of the bible "good"? Or are they just words and that is all they are?
#16
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@Stephen
Firstly, what is good?

Are the words of the bible "good"? Or are they just words and that is all they are?
Great question.  So please answer the first question and then perhaps we can wrestle with your question. We need some kind of baseline, would you not agree? 
#17
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@Deb-8-a-bull
The Roy determines what is good.

The anagrammatic theory of fractional reduction to a point of 0.

And "Christian" is ultimately a devolved metaphor for The Roy.

What a load of rot hey?

Though the theory of fractional reduction is sound.
#18
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@Deb-8-a-bull
What is good You ask.   Lots of stuff that i can't really rattle off. 

Good to goodist.  
Is that a word?

And bad to badist.
You know what i mean hey?  
There would have to be a line hey?   Good things ranging to bad things. 
And Somtimes in certain situations some bad things turning good.and good turning bad. 

Who determines this.   
It is a good question and you want to answer it real quick with  ( i do ) 
I determine if something is good or bad. 
And as soon as you think this , it turns to the opposite. 
Everyone but i determines good or bad. 

Thennnnnnnnn if the act was committed by you toooooooo, did it involve me. 

And this is if the opposite of good is bad,  not evil.  I'm not sure what evil is. 

Sorry for my spelling in advance trade. 

To sum it up.
Well i can't. 

Thanks Deb-8-a-bull,

Thanks for your honesty. And not pretending to be otherwise. 
#19
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@Tradesecret
Firstly, what is good?

Are the words of the bible "good"? Or are they just words and that is all they are?
Great question.  So please answer the first question and then perhaps we can wrestle with your question. We need some kind of baseline, would you not agree? 

 What's up Reverend "Tradey"? Too frightened to commit?

My question is a fair question and you should be able to answer my question.

I don't have an answer for your question.

#20
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@Stephen
What's up Reverend "Tradey"? Too frightened to commit?

My question is a fair question and you should be able to answer my question.

I don't have an answer for your question.
What is there is to be frightened about? I certainly am not afraid. I also agree that yours is a fair question. In fact I am pretty sure I suggested it was a "great question". 

And I appreciate your decision not to answer my question. 

For me, I also decline to answer. 

The question of "good" as Deb-8-a-bull appreciates is complex.   There is a certain amount of subjectivity to it.  And what one considers subjectively to be good, another person might see as bad or evil.  Unless we have a working definition in consensus of what good is, then there is not a lot of point discussing any particular fact or hypothetical, is there?

Is it good to eat children or not? See?  Unless we know what good is - then it makes no sense.  Or unless we know the context? 

You of course have a few years on me, so I expect you probably have a working definition. Why don't you try me out? Let's see if we can find a consensus. 






#21
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But the question.
Who determines what is " good "?   Should not be difficult to answer. 
Once this  is answered it goes back to the question. ( WHAT IS GOOD ? ) 
And now this can be asnwered with or by, the people  or the " thing "  that determines what is good. 

And this all boils back to. 
Ya MUM. 

Your mother is The be all and end all. 
She is God like.

Id say. 
Your mother is more important than God.   
I know. Crazy right. 
    
( Oh maybe not if you were traumatized as a kid. ) 


#22
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Im just going to   
PASS.
#23
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If one can not explain nowhere near precisely what is GOOD and what is NOT. 
May i suggest we simply (  FILL IN THE GAPS. ) 
GOD determines what is good.

Just.
Just.

GOD.
He determines what is good and what is not. 

End of fucken story.
FULL STOP 
 

#24
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Who DOESN'T determine what is good.?

#25
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@Tradesecret


And I appreciate your decision not to answer my question. 

I said I don't have an answer to your question because I don't. I didn't decline.


For me, I also decline to answer. 

At least you admit to declining. And we all know why don't we Reverend "Tradey"?


 "Words are words. And that is all they are". #45  Tradesecret

And   

"The Bible is a book. It can't cause anything" .#3  Tradesecret

Above you reduced the bible and all the words therein to a plie of meaningless nothingness.

You are  a  hypocrite.

Get well soon Reverend "Tradey".



#26
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@Deb-8-a-bull
And "Christian" is certainly a devolved metaphor.
#27
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@Stephen
Thanks Stephen, as always you are so delightful.  

I think you do have an answer. Otherwise, there seems to be no particular reason why you are so against religion per se. Or at least some people's understanding of it. You obviously think you are correct and therefore good and everyone else no good. 

But then again -I am sure you will explain why I am incorrect. 

You have no clue as to why I declined.  It was because I was hoping to explore what Deb-8-a-bull understood by good. It was never about my own views.  But there you go - as often is the case - jumping to conclusions.

This question was about the meaning of good - not the words of the bible. You tried to make it about that - and I said - give us a definition. You then LIED and said you don't have an answer - yet then whilst hoping no one picks you up - throw my words at me - with the underlying assumption about the words of bible being good or not.  It is not me who is the hypocrite nor the liar. 

I never said the Bible had no meaning.  That is your view. I said the bible does not cause people to do things.  That was the context.  If you had forgotten, the logic of your words and argument was that "the clothes females wear - like the words of the bible - cause them to be .... or to make other people do stuff." I said you are wrong. And I continue to stand by that statement.  You are the one on the wrong side of the argument - and you are too proud to admit it.  Your prob. Not mine.  

The bible is a book with words. Words are words.  How people read words - and interpret them - is a matter for them.  How men see ladies clothes and respond is a matter for them.  The clothes and the words are merely clothes and words.  They don't cause anything per se.  If they were the cause - then all people reading the words would be murderers or homophobes or believers in Jesus or sinless.  And all men would be sexual assaulters or men of integrity. 

How people respond to words or clothes is a matter for them. It is neither the words nor the clothes that CAUSE anyone to do anything.  IT is how they respond according to their interpretation that is the point.  You know this and I think you actually agree with me. But your pride - well that is what is getting in the road here. It is how you are choosing to respond that is the point.    The question is - how are you going to respond to the truth? 
#28
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@zedvictor4
It comes in real fuking handy
when you can use the word christian like this. 

World Religions in numbers  . 
There is approximately 
 2 billion Christians .
1.8 billion Muslims. 

Thus, The Christians are the biggest group. Have been for agessssss. 


We wouldn't  want. 

1.2 billion sunni or shyit whoever6  Muslims. 
600,000 catholics. 
425, 000 Orthodox or whatever they are 
300,000 the other Muslims 

#29
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@Tradesecret

And I appreciate your decision not to answer my question. 

I said I don't have an answer to your question because I don't. I didn't decline.


For me, I also decline to answer. 

At least you admit to declining. And we all know why don't we Reverend "Tradey"?


 "Words are words. And that is all they are". #45  Tradesecret

And   

"The Bible is a book. It can't cause anything" .#3  Tradesecret

Above you reduced the bible and all the words therein to a plie of meaningless nothingness.


This question was about the meaning of good - not the words of the bible. 

 And I simply asked you are the words in the bible"good". And you fell at the first fence .....as usual.

What does the bible mean by "good" when it talks about the "good Samaritan"? 
And what does the bible mean by "good" when it speaks of the "good shepherd"?

You see Reverend "Tradey" these are questions that you should be well versed in to answer and in a position to answer in your capacity as a Pastor and Chaplain to your countries defence forces,  not to mention all those " university students that you lecture and tutor"  about the "good book",  but suddenly refused to.  But then the bible that mentions the words "good" over 800 times is "just a book" to you,isn't it  Reverend "Tradey"?  That is until you get in front of your parishioners and you start preaching from the "good" book" and interpreting what you believe the bible means by "good".

I'll say it again, you are a hypocrite, Reverend "Tradey" and a cowardly bible dunce to-boot!






#30
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IT MUST BE HARD ON A CHRISTIANS. 
When they ask their computer.  
' computer ' how many denominations of Christians are there.  
And up pops the    ( BIG ASS ) NUMBER.  It has a ( 3 ) at the front.  
We allllllll know how many different types of  "Christians  " there are.   
 Out of respect i will not state it. 
But OUCH. 
OUCH. 


What may be the best explanation for this ?


I picture a lump of 4x4. 
If you dont sand it down it ummmmmmm .  
I am going to say it.    IT SPLINTERS. ....

Yess i droped the  ( S bomb ) 

 SPLINTERS?


Powwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.