Work is like a sandwich

Author: secularmerlin ,

Posts

Total: 198
secularmerlin
secularmerlin's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 6,777
3
3
3
secularmerlin's avatar
secularmerlin
3
3
3
--> @949havoc
Says the guy who argues for determinism
That you do not choose your actions only makes it all the more vital that people not be needlessly constrained. To do otherwise is to punish them for things over which they have no control which is not justice. 

More importantly it is counter to the greater good. 
Fruit_Inspector
Fruit_Inspector's avatar
Debates: 20
Posts: 777
3
4
7
Fruit_Inspector's avatar
Fruit_Inspector
3
4
7
--> @secularmerlin
How dare you compare the plight of the African American people throughout the centuries and today with the idea that someone else might be paid a little more than you?
You are the one who wants to use the power of the law, a system where everyone should be treated equally regardless of the color of your skin, to enforce the unequal treatment of one racial group in preference of another.

The fundamental problem with the plight of black people in American history was that black people were not treated equally under the law. Isn't that what the civil rights movement was about - equal rights?

What did we call it when black people weren't treated equally under the law? Racism.

What do you call it when white people aren't treated equally under the law? Justice.

If you aren't striving for everyone to be treated equally under the law regardless of their skin color at all times, you are a racist. And for all your talk of humanitarianism and lifting up the poor, you will still have to deal with the fact that you are prejudiced against a group of people based on the color of their skin.
secularmerlin
secularmerlin's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 6,777
3
3
3
secularmerlin's avatar
secularmerlin
3
3
3
The fundamental problem with the plight of black people in American history was that black people were not treated equally under the law. 
AND that they continue to be on unequal footing.

I don't really support the idea of employment anyway so really it is inaccurate to say I am in favor of some employee making more than others but you keep ignoring that.

And again do not compare being paid a little less than another person for whatever reason to being paid less and given fewer opportunities and being subjected to extra violence and to be persecuted by the law for generations AFTER generations of bondage.

Also I am not doing it because of the color of there skin. That was determined by the previous racism itself. Whites were unfairly privileged and I don't know how to redress that without disadvantaging them somehow until equality is achieved. Like a handicap in golf. If you agree with a handicap in golf you should be in favor of some sort of reperations.
Fruit_Inspector
Fruit_Inspector's avatar
Debates: 20
Posts: 777
3
4
7
Fruit_Inspector's avatar
Fruit_Inspector
3
4
7
--> @secularmerlin
Whites were unfairly privileged and I don't know how to redress that without disadvantaging them somehow until equality is achieved.
What definition of equality are you using?
secularmerlin
secularmerlin's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 6,777
3
3
3
secularmerlin's avatar
secularmerlin
3
3
3
--> @Fruit_Inspector
What definition of equality are you using?
Well let's start with not being disproportionally harmed or favored either explicitly or implicitly and if I find that isn't all I mean or isn't quite what I mean I will adjust the definition accordingly 
Fruit_Inspector
Fruit_Inspector's avatar
Debates: 20
Posts: 777
3
4
7
Fruit_Inspector's avatar
Fruit_Inspector
3
4
7
--> @secularmerlin
Well let's start with not being disproportionally harmed or favored either explicitly or implicitly and if I find that isn't all I mean or isn't quite what I mean I will adjust the definition accordingly 
The vagueness and flexibility of that definition tells me you really have no idea what you mean by equality.
secularmerlin
secularmerlin's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 6,777
3
3
3
secularmerlin's avatar
secularmerlin
3
3
3
--> @Fruit_Inspector
The vagueness and flexibility of that definition tells me you really have no idea what you mean by equality.
I do know what I mean and if I find I have not described what I mean adequately I reserve the right to adjust my definition. 
Fruit_Inspector
Fruit_Inspector's avatar
Debates: 20
Posts: 777
3
4
7
Fruit_Inspector's avatar
Fruit_Inspector
3
4
7
--> @secularmerlin
What does "disproportionately harmed or favored" mean?
secularmerlin
secularmerlin's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 6,777
3
3
3
secularmerlin's avatar
secularmerlin
3
3
3
--> @Fruit_Inspector
You know like whites are disproportionally favored and people of color are disproportionally harmed right now today in our society. 
Fruit_Inspector
Fruit_Inspector's avatar
Debates: 20
Posts: 777
3
4
7
Fruit_Inspector's avatar
Fruit_Inspector
3
4
7
--> @secularmerlin
And how is a law that forces white people to be paid less than black people not considered disproportionately harmful?
secularmerlin
secularmerlin's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 6,777
3
3
3
secularmerlin's avatar
secularmerlin
3
3
3
--> @Fruit_Inspector
And how is a law that forces white people to be paid less than black people not considered disproportionately harmful?
You keep on about this. It is the case right now that people of color are paid significantly less than their white counterparts. Let's assume you are right and white people would be harmed (though I'm not necessarily in favor of the policy in question or in favor of any wage slavery and I'm not sure white people how white people would be being harmed if equality were restored) by being paid less. People of color ARE being paid less right now in real life. No law makes this the case it is just the way our society functions. 

IF you think it would be unfair for white people to be paid less THEN you must be in favor of paying people of color more OR you don't actually want equality you want preferential treatment. 
secularmerlin
secularmerlin's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 6,777
3
3
3
secularmerlin's avatar
secularmerlin
3
3
3
Anyway I have a much better idea anyway. What if anyone who is worth more than a million dollars was made to be worth only one million dollars (no one needs or deserves more than a million dollars) and these funds were used to fund social programs that would feed, house, clothe and educate all disadvantaged people. I'm not much for any segregation let's disadvantage the wealthy and give advantages to the poor regardless of arbitrary non differences such as sex or skin color such that they have equal power to effect executive policy. 
Fruit_Inspector
Fruit_Inspector's avatar
Debates: 20
Posts: 777
3
4
7
Fruit_Inspector's avatar
Fruit_Inspector
3
4
7
--> @secularmerlin
It is the case right now that people of color are paid significantly less than their white counterparts.
So as long as we can find some statistic that averages out numbers across the entire nation that shows a disparate outcome, we can make laws that disproportionately favor one group over another based on skin color, correct?
secularmerlin
secularmerlin's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 6,777
3
3
3
secularmerlin's avatar
secularmerlin
3
3
3
--> @Fruit_Inspector
So as long as we can find some statistic that averages out numbers across the entire nation that shows a disparate outcome, we can make laws that disproportionately favor one group over another based on skin color, correct?
This thread was never about skin color. Why are you so determined to argue that there is no systemic racism that you made yourself sound like a racist in a thread which has zero to do with race? I mean you do understand that whether you actually are or not you have certainly given the impression that you are. 
Fruit_Inspector
Fruit_Inspector's avatar
Debates: 20
Posts: 777
3
4
7
Fruit_Inspector's avatar
Fruit_Inspector
3
4
7
--> @secularmerlin
Why are you so determined to argue that there is no systemic racism that you made yourself sound like a racist in a thread which has zero to do with race?

BigPimpDaddy asked me in post #95:
Please explain democrats marxist like tendencies.

I responded in post #96:
Critical Race Theory is a great example. At least, the practical application of it at a policy level.
The justification for this being that CRT stems from Marxism, hence the use of the term "Marxist-like" rather than just calling it Marxist. Neo-Marxist would be more accurate, but I didn't feel like going down that rabbit hole.


Then you interjected to my dialogue with someone else in your post #98 with this claim:
Critical race theory is almost never considered in policy creation or application. That is why there is a need of critical race theory to he taught at the college level though it will never be taught in public schools owing mostly to the extremely advanced nature of the course. In other words no one will be given a course in critical race theory that has not already chosen to devote considerable study of race relations in American history. 
To answer this claim, I began by showing you that the fundamental principles unique to CRT are in fact being taught in public schools. The point was to show you that, in the context of your analogy, CRT is actually the overarching topic of "biology," while the specific teachings of people like Derrick Bell are "neuroscience." So the fundamental concepts of "biology" are being taught and applied in public schools. And the teachers learned "neuroscience" among other things at college before they became "biology" teachers.

But, according to your own self-analysis, you are not familiar enough with CRT to recognize that. You have simply adopted these teachings as indisputable truths about reality without even realizing that you have done so or why. This is how you can justify actual racism against people based upon grievances with that racial group, whether past or present. By the way, this same line of reasoning was used by Nazi Germany and the KKK. "Things are unfair for me because of what that group did, so the only way to make it right is to do something unfair to them!" We've seen how that goes...

So as soon as you say, "Discrimination against someone based on skin color is wrong unless..." you have lost any moral high ground.

Because you're a racist.


To reiterate your current question:
Why are you so determined to argue that there is no systemic racism that you made yourself sound like a racist in a thread which has zero to do with race?
The reason I am arguing with you about the concept of systemic racism because you initiated the argument in your post #98. So if you didn't want to talk to me about racism in this thread, why did you initiate a conversation about CRT that didn't involve you?
secularmerlin
secularmerlin's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 6,777
3
3
3
secularmerlin's avatar
secularmerlin
3
3
3
--> @Fruit_Inspector
Clearly there is systematic racism and if your claim is that there is no racism while simultaneously claiming racism against whites who are the privileged class you are being self contradictory and not arguing in good faith.

So can we drop it?
Fruit_Inspector
Fruit_Inspector's avatar
Debates: 20
Posts: 777
3
4
7
Fruit_Inspector's avatar
Fruit_Inspector
3
4
7
--> @secularmerlin
Clearly there is systematic racism and if your claim is that there is no racism while simultaneously claiming racism against whites who are the privileged class you are being self contradictory and not arguing in good faith.

So can we drop it?
The fact that you would even phrase your accusation in such a way shows that your mind is only functioning in the context of CRT and I'm not sure you even realize it.

But we can drop it any time.
Dr.Franklin
Dr.Franklin's avatar
Debates: 32
Posts: 9,723
4
7
11
Dr.Franklin's avatar
Dr.Franklin
4
7
11
thats not how you assign value to work
Polytheist-Witch
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 2,680
3
3
6
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Polytheist-Witch
3
3
6
You can always tell when someone doesn't like to work hard cuz they complain that people that work hard make more than people who don't.
949havoc
949havoc's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 819
3
2
8
949havoc's avatar
949havoc
3
2
8
--> @Polytheist-Witch
Right on. And add that people who never work hard never figure out how to work smart, and earn even more.
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 17
Posts: 5,721
3
3
4
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
4
--> @949havoc @Polytheist-Witch
A cheese and pickle sandwich.

Yum Yum.

F**k work.

14 days later

Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 11,977
3
4
8
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
8
You can always tell who the Marxist is by the level of commitment toward investing in themselves as a person.
sadolite
sadolite's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,128
3
2
4
sadolite's avatar
sadolite
3
2
4
--> @secularmerlin
No matter what economic system you live under you will work. Which economic system you live under determines if you can choose what kind of work you will do. Choose your economic system wisely as there is no escape from work. There are no free rides anywhere.