Heaven

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What is your understanding of heaven and why?

Is the heaven - if it exists - that some people go to when they die - the same one we end up in?

Do we have bodies?

Is Hell real?

If so what is it like?

And heaven - does it consist in time or in eternity?

#2

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@Tradesecret

Well the Hubble telescope hasn't spotted it yet.

In my opinion heaven is an internal data construct, relative to death and the uncertainty thereof.

Basically, thinking up a nice solution to a worrying thought.

Overthink because we do.

#3

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Does the Bible, Torah or Koran not address these? If they do not then I imagine it's not important.

#4

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What language do you speak in Heaven? Is it Vulcan, dif-tor heh smusma?

#5

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There's one of them there stupid repeat comments.

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@Polytheist-Witch

There's one of them there stupid repeat comments.

And are these examples of those "same stupid questions that are repeated over and over and over" that you referred to earlier here #183and here #190 ? Witch

Tradesecrete wrote: What is your understanding of heaven and why?

Is the heaven - if it exists - that some people go to when they die - the same one we end up in?

Do we have bodies?

Is Hell real?

If so what is it like?

And heaven - does it consist in time or in eternity?

What about this question? Is this also stupid too?

"Does the Bible, Torah or Koran not address these"?#3

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@zedvictor4

Well the Hubble telescope hasn't spotted it yet.

In my opinion heaven is an internal data construct, relative to death and the uncertainty thereof.

Basically, thinking up a nice solution to a worrying thought.

Overthink because we do.

Ok. So you don't believe in heaven.

I suspect people looking into space are letting their Greek mythology get in the way.

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11.03.2021 10:57PM

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@Polytheist-Witch

Does the Bible, Torah or Koran not address these? If they do not then I imagine it's not important.

I am wanting to know what people think about these things. Both the Torah and the Bible (Torah is the law in the OT) talk about these things.

Yet, it would be enlightening to know what people in general think about when it comes to heaven. Or the afterlife.

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@FLRW

What language do you speak in Heaven? Is it Vulcan, dif-tor heh smusma?

Great question FLRW. I like to see you expanding your mind.

Do they speak Vulcan in heaven? Hmm - do you know?

Perhaps they like to watch re-runs of Star Trek? Do they tvs in heaven? And electricity?

What do you think and why?

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@Polytheist-Witch

There's one of them there stupid repeat comments.

Agreed. But it is what it is.

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@Tradesecret

What is your understanding of heaven and why?

It depends really, because there are many different places in creation. There is more than a single heaven just like there is more than a single culture or state. Universally (principally) speaking, heaven is an abode where those who deserve to enter indeed inhabit such places. Heaven is not really a religious gimmick that pretends "if I believe this or that...then I get to go here for eternity" type of baloney. Even believers won't inherit heavens because their heart and actions have no relevance in earning elevated places within God's vast creation.

There are many, many beautiful planets that souls will get to experience when they leave this world, and given their actions and intentions (not beliefs) are contrary to intentions and actions of purity and integrity they too will not be permitted to enter a paradise and the rulers of such paradises will never allow it. One's beliefs, actions and intentions must align in unison to inherit heavens no matter what beliefs they hold.

Is the heaven - if it exists - that some people go to when they die - the same one we end up in?

This is the major misconception that pervades religious thought/idealism. There isn't a single place or a single heaven in God's vast creation and there isn't one or two options when we die about where we could go. God does not accommodate a single culture and then reject all other God lovers of other cultures. That is not how this works. Surely, there is a Christian Kingdom of Heaven....if it is your interest, your passion and patriotic pleasure then this is the place for you. Now, all you have to do is meet the requirements for you to gain it. The downside is that you may not meet the requirements.

But to shed light on the whole of reality, there isn't just a single hell either. However there are as many misconceptions about hell as there is for heaven.

Do we have bodies?

Yes. There is much to understand about what that means though.

Is Hell real?

Yes. But not in the way certain religions depict it.

If so what is it like?

Hells are astral prisons. They exist as the same concept we have on earth with imprisoning criminals. They are meant to restrain and correct criminal transgressions against Karmetic and Divine laws. Now if you study various sources regarding hells it is quite clear there are levels and variations of punishments. And of course punishment is always congruent with crimes committed. Hells are not eternal, they are not meant for beliefs...they are strictly concerning actions and can be very scary depending upon the soul being restrained.

And heaven - does it consist in time or in eternity?

Heavens are within creation, they are apart of God's creative hand which exists within timeframes. They too are never eternal. Now, astral bodies can live for eons....and so "time" is very different to our notion of living a very short temporal life. You can live in heavens for eons, and it would seem like an eternity. But really break down eternity, it's something that must continue forever. Even in your greatest moments there is no reason God would inflict eternity on any of your experiences.

Much of this will be determined by you anyways, you may be very content to live in heaven for eons of time, perhaps what you perceive as eternal. But at some point you're going to want to live a temporal life again, perhaps have another family where you will once again believe you will die and inherit a place of untold beauty with the ones you love and it will be permitted to you.

If you want to escape the whole game totally and gain the understanding of what you truly are and what creation is your experiences will be completely different. It's your game, you are the one driving your seat and whatever it is you desire will be what dictates your future experiences. All in all, your soul comes from an eternal Reality where there is no form and there is no illusion of duality as we perceive it within creation and you are simply playing within God's vast works of art. When you tire of the game you forfeit creation, including heavens.

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@EtrnlVw

What is your understanding of heaven and why?

It depends really, because there are many different places in creation. There is more than a single heaven just like there is more than a single culture or state. Universally (principally) speaking, heaven is an abode where those who deserve to enter indeed inhabit such places. Heaven is not really a religious gimmick that pretends "if I believe this or that...then I get to go here for eternity" type of baloney. Even believers won't inherit heavens because their heart and actions have no relevance in earning elevated places within God's vast creation.
There are many, many beautiful planets that souls will get to experience when they leave this world, and given their actions and intentions (not beliefs) are contrary to intentions and actions of purity and integrity they too will not be permitted to enter a paradise and the rulers of such paradises will never allow it. One's beliefs, actions and intentions must align in unison to inherit heavens no matter what beliefs they hold.

Is the heaven - if it exists - that some people go to when they die - the same one we end up in?

This is the major misconception that pervades religious thought/idealism. There isn't a single place or a single heaven in God's vast creation and there isn't one or two options when we die about where we could go. God does not accommodate a single culture and then reject all other God lovers of other cultures. That is not how this works. Surely, there is a Christian Kingdom of Heaven....if it is your interest, your passion and patriotic pleasure then this is the place for you. Now, all you have to do is meet the requirements for you to gain it. The downside is that you may not meet the requirements.
But to shed light on the whole of reality, there isn't just a single hell either. However there are as many misconceptions about hell as there is for heaven.

Do we have bodies?

Yes. There is much to understand about what that means though.

Is Hell real?

Yes. But not in the way certain religions depict it.

If so what is it like?

Hells are astral prisons. They exist as the same concept we have on earth with imprisoning criminals. They are meant to restrain and correct criminal transgressions against Karmetic and Divine laws. Now if you study various sources regarding hells it is quite clear there are levels and variations of punishments. And of course punishment is always congruent with crimes committed. Hells are not eternal, they are not meant for beliefs...they are strictly concerning actions and can be very scary depending upon the soul being restrained.

And heaven - does it consist in time or in eternity?

Heavens are within creation, they are apart of God's creative hand which exists within timeframes. They too are never eternal. Now, astral bodies can live for eons....and so "time" is very different to our notion of living a very short temporal life. You can live in heavens for eons, and it would seem like an eternity. But really break down eternity, it's something that must continue forever. Even in your greatest moments there is no reason God would inflict eternity on any of your experiences.
Much of this will be determined by you anyways, you may be very content to live in heaven for eons of time, perhaps what you perceive as eternal. But at some point you're going to want to live a temporal life again, perhaps have another family where you will once again believe you will die and inherit a place of untold beauty with the ones you love and it will be permitted to you.
If you want to escape the whole game totally and gain the understanding of what you truly are and what creation is your experiences will be completely different. It's your game, you are the one driving your seat and whatever it is you desire will be what dictates your future experiences. All in all, your soul comes from an eternal Reality where there is no form and there is no illusion of duality as we perceive it within creation and you are simply playing within God's vast works of art. When you tire of the game you forfeit creation, including heavens.

Thanks for posting. Where do you get all of your information for such things? And how do you divide the good from the bad? And how can you be sure you are correct?

#13

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@Tradesecret

Well no.

Classics was never my strong point.

Typically you focus on the Hubble quip and ignore the rest.

Nonetheless I accept the heaven concept, relative to the reasons given previously. (Exclude the Hubble quip)

"Belief" in concepts such as gods and heaven, is what it is though......Acceptance without real proof.

So where exactly is heaven?

Maybe your specific GOD utilises exoplanets somewhere.

So how would we get there?

Even travelling at light speed it would take millions of years.

Or is it just more theistic magic?

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@zedvictor4

So where exactly is heaven?

Heavens are many, they are planets. The physical universe is only but a single layer of several universes. In this universe there are many other beings that exist in other galaxies. Not humans of course, there are many variations of creation and each environment and ecosystem dictates their evolution of form.

It depends on which heaven you refer to know where it is located. But they exist as planets in any number of places within creation.

Maybe your specific GOD utilises exoplanets somewhere.

Very good, now you're thinking. Ever wonder why your atheist buddies believe the universe just happens to create planets lol? for what reason would it even do that?

So how would we get there?

You cannot in a physical body....When you leave the physical body you are no longer limited to physical travel. Movement and transporting are much different in your astral and spiritual bodies. This is why you should study NDE's, they show what it's like to get around outside your earthly body.

Even travelling at light speed it would take millions of years.

The soul is not bound to space and time and is multidimensional, your spirit body is interdimensional and can travel by thought...you can be somewhere immediately as you are permitted depending on where you wish to be. You can be summoned and sanctioned anywhere just as quick as you can think it. You can be present within a heaven without the need for space travel.

First you should consider that the universe is one of many parallel universes stock full of as many galaxies and planets as this one (God has been creating for much longer than anyone really knows). If you were to travel through space to another planet while in your physical body what you are saying very much applies. The limitations of the material body as we currently experience them are not relevant when you leave that body. Your soul has several layers that precede your physical form, as you detach from the physical body you are present within a subtle body or what people call a spirit body. You have a corresponding layer (form/embodiment) for each parallel world God creates and only the physical body is restricted to physics as we know it in this physical world.

Your soul, which is your conscious being has no embodiment which means your soul is also not restricted to any location. Once you inhabit the physical body your are then isolated to that location (which is earth, within our physical universe) and subject to chemistry and physics and as long as you are in that body you play by those rules.

For you to interact within any world God creates you must have a body that you can utilize to interface with that environment, God must isolate and confine your soul to a body for you to be an individualized entity experiencing creation. When God created your soul, he covered you within form and sent you into creation where you think your momma and daddy made you. They helped create your physical body of course, but you first originated with God as a soul.

You don't know it yet, but you have several layers that bind your soul to creation (multidimensional)....you have a physical body, an astral body, a causal body, a mental body and an etheric body. These are the subtle layers that confine you to each plane of existence so each of those bodies corresponds with a parallel universe where you can have countless experiences including heavens and everything in between. Your soul is eternal and the Creator wanted you to be able to have many different journeys on your path.

Or is it just more theistic magic?

Ever hear of interdimensional, multidimensional, extradimensional, transfiguration?

In your spiritual bodies you can travel by thought alone as well....meaning you can be present at any location just by drawing your attention to it. You actually do this all the time in this physical world...only your physical body has to get you to what you are thinking but your conscious thoughts were already there long before your material body. We don't have this problem once you leave this world, anywhere you want to be you just put your attention on it.

When you get hungry for example, your conscious thoughts already know where you want to go eat, what it is you want and how you will then get it. Now you just have to wait for your physical body to catch up lol but your thoughts and attention were immediate and if you had no physical body you would be where you wanted to be immediately. This presents some challenges naturally when you leave the physical world but no need to get into that yet. Just know that things aren't always as they appear, at least in other forms as you will one day see for yourself.

#15

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@Tradesecret

Thanks for posting. Where do you get all of your information for such things?

There is no single answer. It's gathered knowledge from my own lifetime of experience, observation and various sources. I also cross examine a lot, that's kind of my gig. I'm obsessed with connecting the dots lol.

And how do you divide the good from the bad?

First, was there anything "bad" I explained?

Many things can be ascertained simply by what you determine is "good or bad", some things aren't even bad or good they simply are commonsense and logical. The trick is can it be done without preconceived ideas or indoctrination/conditioning. This actually applies to any train of thought not just for religious topics.

For example, some things could be very good but if they conflict with a persons conditioning they may not be inclined to accept it as true, and as a resort it may be discarded as a bad thing or an untrue thing despite it being true or good.

This is how a person becomes trapped by conditioning of mind and thought, if you want to know reality as it is one has to be free to see it as it is without interference. This takes practice, knowing how to simply observe or absorb truth apart from a conditioned mind. Since the moment we were born we have been conditioned in almost every aspect of life and belief, so to be free of such conditioning we have to also be willing and flexible. This is not easy for everybody.

To me, if something sounds like a bad idea or there is something that contradicts a flow of logical thought it IS bad, and if something sounds good and makes sense perhaps fits with reality it is good. Good is good and bad is bad, they appear as they are without much effort involved. The only thing that blurs crystal clear truth is a fractured or clouded glass, and our minds are our looking glass. It is what we peer through to determine if we believe something and if that mind has been fractured or clouded by faulty ideas we cannot see a clear image of what is true.

There are ideals that flow from dogma, theology and belief and then there are ideals that flow from reality, truth and logic. The two are not always the same thing.

And how can you be sure you are correct?

If there was a single answer I would tell you. What I know and believe about any one thing could have serval factors involved, usually a combination of things. I do study spirituality and religion as a whole and even though my foundation is Christian my study extends well beyond the Bible. I learned a lot of interesting things at a young age from experience that led me to inquire about all facets of spirituality and God. The Gospels of Jesus set me on a path of really desiring to know God and pursue that sort of life even as a very young man. I started applying the teachings of Jesus by the time I was like 8 or 9....It is my unwavering love and passion for the Creator that stirs me to be open minded and free from fear about learning all things related.

I try not to limit the Creator in my understanding and I try not to shun other God lovers and sources who have observed useful information simply because we have this rigid idea only one source can be useful and only one culture could have answers. I also have confidence that many things about God are innate to us as souls that originate from that Reality. That's just my own platform though and I don't expect that others will accept such a thing.

So if you wish to know, I am an Omnist in regards to religion and spirituality at this moment in time. Meaning I collect data as a whole. Not all knowledge and information is correct and not all wrong, rather one must have a good grasp on commonsense and a genuine love for God to decipher what it is that is useful and what can be discarded.

Cross examination and cross referencing are very efficient and effective tools when examining religious thought/insight/observation to become proficient at knowing what is more than likely true if not certainly true. I can cross reference from a wide range of an available body of facts and information that indicate what is true. People easily see the differences in religion but few realize the hidden universal laws, principles and observations that actually connect them and bring forth a wholistic view of creation in its entirety.

#16

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@Tradesecret

My understanding:

1. Heaven is actually a realm of multiple kingdoms, not a single place, each geared to the relative success of people to be obedient to God's law. Thus, we will be stratified by judgment, but all kingdoms, will be more glorious than Earth is now.

2. We will all resurrect with physical, but perfect bodies at roughly our prime in mortality; about 30.

3 & 4. Hell is in outer darkness wherein no light exists, and which will be miserable in the extreme, but not really a place of fire and brimstone, just a place of utter and complete disappointment and lack of progress. Satan's domain. The difference is, however, that while people who will be in Hell are still resurrected, physical beings, those bodies will be of no advantage to those peopple because there will be no ability to continue to progress, and they will have power over Satan, who remains a spirit only.

5. Heaven is eternal. Time, in effect, is meaningless. In heaven, we will continue to learn and progress and have the opportunity to become3 like God, being gods and goddesses, ourselves.

#17

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11.05.2021 09:39PM

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One men's trash is another men's treasure, one men's heaven is another men's hell. Heaven then, is very much based upon perspective and preference even if there is a heaven that meets some men's satisfaction.

One man may enjoy the light and beauty of God, while another man may enjoy the solitude and darkness of God. God exists in all places (omnipresent), God exists within complete darkness and the brightest of lights.

One man may find comfort in being embraced and surrounded by the light of the Creator and another man might find comfort in being penetrated and subdued by the deepest and darkest places of the Creator. There is no heaven that meets all men's desires, there is no single place that can be considered heaven for every man.

God knows this, just as there is countless souls there are countless places of experience for every type of soul.

Just as no one (in their right mind) would force every culture of people on Earth to one country or state, God does not force every soul to a single heaven. God loves variation and difference, God loves a myriad of shapes, colors and sizes. All God's creatures have a place in creation. It is the very contrast of difference that the Creator delights in, for God is what brought variance into existence to be celebrated and enjoyed.

Not all men wish to dwell in the very same place, what one soul likes another soul would never dream of and what one soul finds delight in another soul is repulsed by.

Cultures and societies of all kinds extend well beyond this one planet, extend well beyond into the afterlife. This is what makes creation beautiful and fun, this is what brings joy into a childlike heart and what every soul would delight in if they truly opened up their mind, intellect and curiosity trusting in a God that surpasses segregation and a tribal mentality.

If everyone soul here knew that, it might change their whole idea and perception of God giving them freedom of thought and something to be excited about and invest belief in. Spirituality though is not all about the self as it relates to the progression of the souls growth but heaven (being a souls desire) is the outcome of each souls maturity and is propelled by their own interests and passions.

#18

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@949havoc

5. Heaven is eternal.

Heaven is a place, there is no place that is eternal. The reason you probably think it's eternal is because you really have no idea what that word means. Nothing is infinite but the Creator, and the nature of the soul. All places within creation are temporal even if they exist for eons of time. No soul is subject to places within creation for eternity. Creation is cyclical but also revolving, changing. Change is what makes eternity bearable.

God would never subject a soul to any place for eternity, not heaven or hell. People mistake eons of time for eternity because they have no real perception of what it mean to exist in a single place forever. Heavens are created places, they may be beautiful, fun and exciting but nothing can last forever. God knows this and masks your perception of reality by giving you options of change.

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@949havoc

My understanding:
1. Heaven is actually a realm of multiple kingdoms, not a single place, each geared to the relative success of people to be obedient to God's law. Thus, we will be stratified by judgment, but all kingdoms, will be more glorious than Earth is now.

2. We will all resurrect with physical, but perfect bodies at roughly our prime in mortality; about 30.

3 & 4. Hell is in outer darkness wherein no light exists, and which will be miserable in the extreme, but not really a place of fire and brimstone, just a place of utter and complete disappointment and lack of progress. Satan's domain. The difference is, however, that while people who will be in Hell are still resurrected, physical beings, those bodies will be of no advantage to those peopple because there will be no ability to continue to progress, and they will have power over Satan, who remains a spirit only.

5. Heaven is eternal. Time, in effect, is meaningless. In heaven, we will continue to learn and progress and have the opportunity to become3 like God, being gods and goddesses, ourselves.

thanks 949havoc.

In relation to heaven being eternal, I disagree for a couple of reasons. Firstly, God created Heaven, so there must have been a time when Heaven was not in existence. Secondly, the bible talks of heaven being destroyed and being replaced by a new one. So on two basis - at least Heaven cannot be eternal.

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@EtrnlVw

I've sure heard of sci-fi.

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@zedvictor4

So where exactly is heaven?

I say on earth. The Jewish and Christian lingo puts heaven and earth hand in hand. This is in contradistinction to every other culture and religion in the universe.

Maybe your specific GOD utilises exoplanets somewhere.

Nuh.

So how would we get there?

Well, I suggest trusting in Jesus and then dying.

Even travelling at light speed it would take millions of years.

Or is it just more theistic magic?

Sorry Heaven is not out there - it is here.

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@Tradesecret

I will be honest and say, that I can put your response into a semi-acceptable context.

In fact I have made similar suggestions on other occasions.

Though my suggestions comply more with physical laws and outcomes, rather than spirituality.

I have also previously suggested that spirituality is perhaps analogous.

Though this does not in anyway alter my thoughts, regarding highly embellished human created myths and folk tales from the Middle East.

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@Tradesecret

@zedvictor4: So where exactly is heaven?
Tradesecret: I say on earth.

I believe that you hit the post with that answer, Reverend "Tradey" biblically speaking of course. I'm impressed! 😊 But why do you say that heaven is "on earth"?

@zedvictor4: So how would we get there?
Tradesecret: Well, I suggest trusting in Jesus and then dying.

And then you go and blow your first answer out the water with your follow up answer. 😒

@zedvictor4 Even travelling at light speed it would take millions of years.

Or is it just more theistic magic?

Tradesecret: Sorry Heaven is not out there - it is here.

Nice recovery there Reverend "Tradey". I am impressed again.😊 Why do you say " it is here"?

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@Tradesecret

@zedvictor4

I've sure heard of sci-fi.

Yes, like Sci-fi but much, much better. Lots of things for you to look forward to. The physical, dense outermost layer is the most limited and restrictive of all worlds it is not to be mistaken or compared to what precedes it.

Sorry Heaven is not out there - it is here.

Lol, you are in for a big and delightful surprise. Earth could be considered a type of heaven, perhaps one day it could become one (out of many others) but to limit God to this one planet is very unfortunate. And what a waste of unimaginable space on every level.

#25

RationalMadman

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It doesn't exist pal, I got over it very early on in life. At first, I kinda hoped it existed but I began to realise it can't exist because how can we have unlimited pleasure when almost every way to get pleasure is partly physical and sinful?

It's like saying 'live a life where you resist immediate pleasure and do your duty, no matter the cost' just to give you an afterlife where those that did that get constant short-term pleasure and zero duty or long-term goals while those that did the opposite go to hell where there is also no long-term goal, just pain.

God/s isn't/aren't that much of a hypocritical idiot/s, he/she/they'd have something more consistent in mind.

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@EtrnlVw

Heaven is a place, there is no place that is eternal.

Change is what makes eternity bearable.

Nice rebuttal of your own argument. These statements do not agree, because your first premise implies that there is no change to a place, yet your second implies change must occur. I submit your first premise is incorrect, while the second has merit, except that it is not merely bearable, but glorious. What makes you think eternal things, including places, cannot change? The idea of perfection does not imply that perfect things cannot change; it just is always change for the better. Continuous improvement exercised to its ultimate capability, because the change is not random, but planned, organized, and executed perfectly.

This is not to say that what can be created [I prefer the term, "organized"] must also be perfect. That, I believe is a fallacy, else God would created us as perfect beings as originally organized. No, we perfect ourselves, with his assistance, should we choose to listen to him and obey. The other fallacy is that creation is a finite act that began and ended. I do not believe that. I believe creation continues to this day by change. Evolution, as it were. Imperfect evolution, for now, in mortality, but perfect evolution in immortality. Eternal change, but always improvement.

#27

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11.06.2021 04:06PM

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11.06.2021 04:06PM

Why would you want heaven with a god you hate? I don't worry about sin, it's a monotheist concept.

#28

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11.06.2021 05:41PM

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11.06.2021 05:41PM

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@RationalMadman

It doesn't exist pal, I got over it very early on in life. At first, I kinda hoped it existed but I began to realise it can't exist because how can we have unlimited pleasure when almost every way to get pleasure is partly physical and sinful?

Heavens are just very beautiful planets where elevated beings exist, there's many heavens and many varieties of elevated places where you can sojourn. It's not a place of unlimited pleasure who told you that? people call them heavens because they are so immaculate, and the stark contrast between our controlling system of this worlds carnal and negative intentions. Elevated places (heavens) of untold beauty (not unlimited gratification) for those who have earned better places to live. You will also get to visit some really amazing planets on your own journey so don't be so one-sided about it. I'm sure you'd like more than this planet as an option of the long future ahead of you.

It's like saying 'live a life where you resist immediate pleasure and do your duty, no matter the cost' just to give you an afterlife where those that did that get constant short-term pleasure and zero duty or long-term goals while those that did the opposite go to hell where there is also no long-term goal, just pain.

You have a lot of preconceived ideas about religious concepts. Can't say I blame you really because of all the phony dogma attached in ways. However much of your ideas are convoluted.

God/s isn't/aren't that much of a hypocritical idiot/s, he/she/they'd have something more consistent in mind.

Why do you think God would just create only one planet so many souls could visit?

#29

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11.06.2021 05:51PM

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11.06.2021 05:51PM

God used to speak to people from clouds and burning bushes, so why doesn't he go on Facebook and show pictures of Heaven?

#30

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