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@Goldtop
It is a hard thing to "un"indoctrinate yourself. Some people are capable of reevaluating their beliefs as they grow older. I would say that is very rare though.
Delusion In Most Atheists?
Posts
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506
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@janesix
No, it's not hard, it's easy. All one has to do is start thinking.It is a hard thing to "un"indoctrinate yourself
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@Goldtop
Emotional attachment to beliefs stand in the way. Changing your worldview is a huge deal to most people.
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@janesix
Denial of God is certainly a delusional position.
It is a disservice to God denier to tell them otherwise. It is not right to lead them on to believe that such a position is even possibly valid.
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@Mopac
Denial of God is certainly a delusional position.
No, it isn't.
It is a disservice to God denier to tell them otherwise. It is not right to lead them on to believe that such a position is even possibly valid.
Of course atheism is a valid position. There is little evidence for God, and what there is is not compelling to atheists.
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@janesix
Changing a worldview simply requires one to think. If emotions get in the way, then people need to grow up and be adults.
What's so tough about that?
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@janesix
As we can see, Jane, Mopac has no desire to think and be a sane person. He would much rather remain a child and pander to his childhood fantasies while raging at the adults.Denial of God is certainly a delusional position.
Do you remember this quote from the original Terminator movie, Jane?
"Listen, and understand! That Terminator is out there! It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear! And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead!"
It applies to Mopac with just a few changes.
Listen, and understand! Mopac is out there! He can't be bargained with. He can't be reasoned with. He doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear! And he absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are insane!
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@Mopac
Denial of God is certainly a delusional position.
But, you have to remember that is your own perception, even if it were true. I'm positive they believe you are deluded.
It is a disservice to God denier to tell them otherwise. It is not right to lead them on to believe that such a position is even possibly valid.
Of course if God exists it is silly to deny The Ultimate Reality, it's just common sense but we are dealing with perceptions when debating and that plays the main role here. Mopac would say the Ultimate Reality still exists despite what atheists believe and that is true obviously, beliefs do not alter that. But what we are dealing with in people are perceptions not really what Ultimate Reality is or means. For one to accept an ultimate reality they would have to admit that there is a reality outside what we perceive as individuals and even if they did that there is no real reason for them to believe or label that reality outside themselves God.
No one can accept what Mopac is claiming other than one who has already accepted God exists. I accept the Ultimate Reality exists because I know God exists and so the term is evident, but you can't force that on someone who perceives reality as a material construct alone, they can simply deny it as they do. BTW I would not say let atheists believe their position is valid, but to them it IS. What reasons have you given them to accept it other than just claiming one exists?
So the answer is not to label atheists deluded (even if it were true), the answer of course can only be solved when and if they embrace Theism. Then the term Ultimate Reality actually means something, makes sense and is obvious..... So as it's always been, the real challenge is to convince atheists of the existence of God and as everyone knows that is a rare event, in these forums anyways. It does happen though but most people come here in debate mode, not considering mode and so to them there is no reason to even accept Ultimate Reality as being God, even though it is.
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@Goldtop
No, it requires an emotional adjustment, not just thinking. Feelings seem to have little importance to you.
You seem to have very little charity towards your fellow human beings.
What do feelings have to do with accepting reality? Makes no sense. Feelings play an important role for humans, but not when humans let their feelings get in the way of being sane or not.No, it requires an emotional adjustment, not just thinking. Feelings seem to have little importance to you.
You seem to have very little charity towards your fellow human beings.
Why should I have charity for those who lie, who wish to deceive and make a mockery of us, who want to bring us all down to their level of insanity?
They are the ones who have no charity for their fellow human beings.
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@EtrnlVw
All you have to do is look at the behavioral patterns of people like goldtop, and it ahould be apparent that productive dialog, reconciliation, and reason are the furthest things from their minds.
Nihilists like him only believe in pretense. They want to drag everyone else down to the hell they inhabit.
Pearls before swine. Waste of time.
I'm not interested in people like that who have knowingly and willingly rejected truth and love. I am more interested in those who identify as atheists who are honest and can be reasoned with. The ones who don't have it in their head that they know what I believe better than I do.
Nihilists like him only believe in pretense. They want to drag everyone else down to the hell they inhabit.
Pearls before swine. Waste of time.
I'm not interested in people like that who have knowingly and willingly rejected truth and love. I am more interested in those who identify as atheists who are honest and can be reasoned with. The ones who don't have it in their head that they know what I believe better than I do.
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@Goldtop
I suspect you have never been in the position of changing your worldview. Otherwise, you would know what I mean.
Just as we are positive you are deluded.I'm positive they believe you are deluded.
I know God exists
That is one of many delusions you hold.
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@janesix
Existence itself is sufficient evidence for Ultimate Reality.
The idea that there is no evidence is simply another delusion perpetuated by atheists who prop up some strawman god and declare this as God.
Why?
Because atheism is a position of ignorance. It isn't valid.
Who else? Nihilists. Nihilists are a joke.
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@Mopac
Well perhaps it would make more sense if you were to first get them to admit that IF God exists, then there is in fact an Ultimate Reality or that God meets the definition of that....rather than just saying the Ultimate Reality exists and if you deny it you are deluded.
Yes I'm well aware of that members behavior. I know full well and why you see me mainly ignore it.
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@Mopac
I'm not interested in people like that who have knowingly and willingly rejected truth and love. I am more interested in those who identify as atheists who are honest and can be reasoned with. The ones who don't have it in their head that they know what I believe better than I do.
I'm not supporting his behavior at all, actually I'm not even referring to him, I ignore him. I'm talking about the decent members that happen to be atheist.
You mean from deluded to not deluded? No, I haven't required that change. I don't accept or hold delusions, my worldview is the result of what reality shows me, that which is consistent to everyone else on the planet. I don't make additions of invisible super friends to reality like some of the children here.I suspect you have never been in the position of changing your worldview
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@Mopac
Existence itself is sufficient evidence for Ultimate Reality.
Of course there is an "ultimate reality". Your claims to knowing anything about it are false. You can't possibly know.
The idea that there is no evidence is simply another delusion perpetuated by atheists who prop up some strawman god and declare this as God.
I didn't say there was no evidence. I said atheists believe there is insufficient evidence.
Why?Because atheism is a position of ignorance. It isn't valid.
Every position is a position of ignorance.
Who else? Nihilists. Nihilists are a joke.
I don't see how that pertains to our conversation.
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@janesix
Thank you, I don't need your advice.
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@Mopac
Then don't respond to my posts.
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@EtrnlVw
My position has and has always been against atheism, not the atheist. I am actually for the atheist. Otherwise, why would I subject myself to this?
Not my bag.
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@janesix
@Mopac
As you can see Jane, Mopac describes himself perfectly in post #462...Thank you, I don't need your advice.
All you have to do is look at the behavioral patterns ... and it ahould be apparent that productive dialog, reconciliation, and reason are the furthest things from their minds.
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@Mopac
We know why.Otherwise, why would I subject myself to this?
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@Goldtop
I suspect I made him uncomfortable. He likes to think he knows ALL.
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@janesix
And to him, we are all just idiots and morons because we're not bat shit crazy.He likes to think he knows ALL
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@Goldtop
Mopac isn't crazy. He is stubborn.
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@janesix
No, you don't make me uncomfortable. I certainly don't think I know it all either.
You are, like most know it alls, projecting yourself on to me. You say, "Your claims to knowing anything about it are false. You can't possibly know."
Well, you say that because you know better, not because you are actually agnostic.
And fyi there is actually precedent for this type of thinking in Orthodox history. When the Roman Catholic scholastics tried to introduce scholasticism to the east. Orthodoxy rejected it because it is wrong. Not surprising that when the west rejected scholasticism, they threw God out with it.
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@Mopac
Really? I am not the one pretending to KNOW.
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@janesix
No, you are saying it is impossible to know.
Why do you say this?
Because you know everything. Because you don't know what I'm saying, you say it can't be known because if you don't know it fhat means it can't be known.
You are projecting on to me.
And what you think I am claiming that is impossible to know is anyone's guess.