Genuine Discussions

Author: Yassine ,

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Wylted
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--> @Lemming
The entire sequence of Quranic revelations are a testimony to taqiyya and, since Allah is believed to be the revealer of these verses, he ultimately is seen as the perpetrator of deceit. This is not surprising since Allah himself is often described in the Quran as the "best deceiver" or "schemer." (see 3:54, 8:30, 10:21). This phenomenon revolves around the fact that the Quran contains both peaceful and tolerant verses, as well as violent and intolerant ones.
The ulema were uncertain which verses to codify into sharia's worldview. For instance, should they use the one that states there is no coercion in religion (2:256), or the ones that command believers to fight all non-Muslims until they either convert or at least submit to Islam (9:5, 9:29)? To solve this quandary, they developed the doctrine of abrogation – naskh, supported by Quran 2:105. This essentially states that verses "revealed" later in Muhammad's career take precedence over those revealed earlier whenever there is a discrepancy.
Why the contradiction in the first place? The standard answer has been that, because Muhammad and his community were far outnumbered by the infidels in the early years of Islam, a message of peace and co-existence was in order. However, after Muhammad migrated to Medina and grew in military strength and numbers, the militant or intolerant verses were revealed, urging Muslims to go on the offensive.


Wylted
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Who do you believe when it comes to Muslims Lemming. CNN reporters calling it a religion of peace, and never studying it, or the people who base their life on the koran and believe so much in it, they are willing to sacrifice their lifes. Is don lemon more educated on islam or the members of ISIS?
RationalMadman
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--> @Wylted
It's like assuming German and English is similar, just because they both have latin roots.
Ik this isn't relevant but contrary to what wars and rivalries would suggest, German is actually the most similar language to English in Europe (according to me). The way that sentences and paragraphs end up structured is like if you took English and just flipped around a little in terms of adjective placement and added some gendering of words to it.

France is the nearest nation to UK that doesn't speak English other than Ireland (with its Gaelic/Irish) and French is so, so different. So, if you were to compare, it would shock you how similar German actually is to English, they are very surprisingly similar to each other (in practise, not in theory). 

Lemming
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--> @Wylted
Eh, well, we've both stated our opinions on the subject.
Wylted
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--> @Lemming
Eh, well, we've both stated our opinions on the subject.
It's unfortunate you feel that way, because my goal isn't to merely provide you with my opinion. My goal is also not to convince you of my opinion. It is much more selfish. I want to learn. I want to be proven wrong. You have provided little to the discussion. and have failed me. Worse than that, you have practically ignored my premises and not even taken the time to consider what I have said, because I think beyond the facade of your feigned humility, you are a narcissism who thinks he has nothing to gain, by looking into the things I base my opinion on.

I have much more respect for Yassine, who by morning I assume will take the time to teach me a few things, even if he is to bullheaded to learn from me.
Lemming
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--> @Wylted
Sounds an insulting post to me, #30.
But ah well, I've said what I've said, and don't think I've anymore I want to say.
Wylted
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--> @RationalMadman
I studied German for about a year. Maybe it is because I have been exposed to spanish my whole life, but spanish seems easier to transition than German. Though fortunately we have adopted many words from German to make it easier to learn. Such as Kindergarten. Kinder meaning child.
Wylted
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--> @Lemming
Sounds an insulting post to me, #30.

It was meant to be.

But ah well, I've said what I've said, and don't think I've anymore I want to say.

That's the problem. This is a debate site. We aren't here to share opinions, and just make casual statements. Take a position and nut up. epistemic humility has no place on this site.
Stephen
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--> @Yassine
- In this thread I will genuinely discuss with you absolutely any topic you wish to discuss, with open-mindedness

How about this?


Bones
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--> @Yassine
Have you heard of Mohammed Hijab. If so, what is your opinion of him?
Stephen
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--> @Lemming @Wylted
I'm unfamiliar with Islam, so I'm unsure of what I offer, 'but,

 Yes and this is forgiveness offered to only those that agree convert. 

And it is as Wylted suggests :

Wylted wrote: " The earlier books are like that. The book itself says later verses when contradicting the earlier ones, supercede the earlier ones". #17

This is what is known as the abrogation. i.e Muhammed says he was deceived and that these earlier verses were given to him in revelation by the Satan . The book then turns intolerant of,  and violent towards, the unbeliever - the kuffar  

Islam the 7th century ideology  will never be compatible with western civilisation for the simple reason Muslims believe  the Quran to be " the last unalterable revelation from god". i.e it cannot reform.

 The Rushdi novel affair ( for which there is still a fatwa - bounty - on his head, $6 million the last time I looked) should have been a wake up call for the West, although there were much earlier warnings about the Islamic threat many years before.


Sir William Muir (1819-1905) said; “the sword of Muhammad and the Quran are the most fatal enemies of civilisation, liberty and truth which the world has ever known... an unmitigated cultural disaster parading as God's will".

Winston Churchill 1874 - 1965: "Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog".

William Gladstone 1809_ 1898  Quran, an accursed book, so long as there is this book there will be no peace in the world.

Winston Churchill 1874 – 1965 The religion of blood and war is face to face with that of peace. Luckily the religion of peace is usually the better armed. The Mahommedan religion increases, instead of lessening, the fury of intolerance. Propagated by the sword, and a form of madness.

Winston Churchill 1899: “Individual Muslims may show splendid qualities, but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world.”




Sum1hugme
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--> @Yassine
What convinced you that Islam is true?

What would convince you that it is false?
3RU7AL
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--> @Wylted
You don't really see Jews flying planes into buildings, or Christians actually beheading muslim reporters and soldiers on camera for fun. There is just one religion that creates these sorts of extremists, who feel they have a duty to kill as many non muslims as humanly possible.
atheists commit all sorts of atrocities

jews commit all sorts of atrocities

christians commit all sorts of atrocities

muslims commit all sorts of atrocities

even god-damned buddhists commit all sorts of atrocities
3RU7AL
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--> @Wylted
That's pretty much what christians were like back when torquemada was murdering thousands of indigenous pagans.
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--> @Yassine
Do u have much evidence of miracles that have happened in recent years in Islam?
Do u have much evidence of near death experiences that involve Islamic content?
Lemming
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--> @Stephen
Say to those who believe that they should forgive those who expect not the days of Allah, as it is for Him to recompense people for what they have earned.
Surah Al-Jathiyah 45:14

Same source I used last time,
All I can say is I'm unfamiliar with Islam,
But given your past statements on Christianity, and our disagreements there,
I find it difficult to consider you a font of knowledge, concerning Islam.
Stephen
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--> @Lemming

I find it difficult to consider you a font of knowledge, concerning Islam.

I posted what I know to be fact.  Do you consider these statesmen to be "fonts of knowledge concerning Islam"?  

Sir William Muir (1819-1905) said; “the sword of Muhammad and the Quran are the most fatal enemies of civilisation, liberty and truth which the world has ever known... an unmitigated cultural disaster parading as God's will".

Winston Churchill 1874 - 1965: "Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog".

William Gladstone 1809_ 1898  Quran, an accursed book, so long as there is this book there will be no peace in the world.

Winston Churchill 1874 – 1965 The religion of blood and war is face to face with that of peace. Luckily the religion of peace is usually the better armed. The Mahommedan religion increases, instead of lessening, the fury of intolerance. Propagated by the sword, and a form of madness.

Winston Churchill 1899: “Individual Muslims may show splendid qualities, but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world.”



Lemming
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--> @Stephen
Opinions by 'Politicians of the British 'Empire,
Speaking of a religion different than their own, of a culture different than their own, of national powers different than their own.
FLRW
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All religions were made up by Humans to make life livable in such a poorly designed world.  I pray that you all find Humanism.
Polytheist-Witch
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Unless you were present that's a false statement.
FLRW
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Why do you think Egyptians had 2000 gods and goddesses? 
The simplest answer would be that because their parents told them they were real, same as with any other religion. And so it goes on, from one generation to the next. Over time changes happen to the stories and the names, it mixes with other religions, etc. And you can go really far back from there, to summerian gods and from there you could probably trace back to older animist religions.
As for how the myths started in the first place: part of it would be people explaining the world to themselves. Another part would be historic events getting exaggerated and embelished in folk tales and poetry. There’s also a factor of stories that may have been meant as symbolic or methaphorical that started getting taken literally over the centuries. And stories to warn kids where not to go/what not to do - most mythologies are full of those. Then there are also people using divine justifications for power. The list of potential sources can get quite long.
Polytheist-Witch
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I wish I had half this power that people keep talking about I have. No one in my house practices my religion but me, my children don't practice it, my husband doesn't practice it. My parents didn't practice it because they didn't practice any religion. Yet somehow I'm controlling everybody around me with my religion. I don't understand it at all I must be missing some sort of component that other people have because I basically do my thing and don't bother anybody else. And the people that I do interact with as far as religion or spirituality live the same way none of them have power over anybody else. Guess I really missed out on the important part of it. Maybe if I was more mentally ill I could pick it up.
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--> @Yassine
Hi Yassine,

I appreciate the sentiments of your post.  Will you please stop suggesting that the West is synonymous with Christianity? 

Christianity started in the Middle East and although it is true that the West expanded primarily through Christian evangelism - the West has for at least the past 80 years pretty much denounced its historical connection to Christianity. 

The West has decided that it is a secular worldview - although sometimes the word multi-cultural - or polytheistic view is bandied about. 

zedvictor4
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Vote for 3RU7AL.

The voice of reason.
zedvictor4
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--> @Yassine
So hypothetically,

Your brother rapes your wife.

Who do you embrace first?

Your brother or your wife.