Russia and Ukraine

Author: Dr.Franklin

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@RationalMadman
One need not agree with 'all of what one says, or even any of it I suppose,
Though I do sometimes agree with some, all, or none of what Yassine says,
But I'm that way with most other people, as well.

Still, even when one does not agree with any of what one says,
It can illustrate a view held by a number of people, sometimes significant number of people.

Buffer States is well known concept, China and North Korea for example,
Hm, not sure what opposite is called, but I'm sure someone has made Cuba, Bay of Pigs example,
When one is concerned with nearby Invasion Springboard States.

It's also a logical thought that if Russia manages easy to seize Ukraine,
It suggests 'other locations, such as Taiwan, might be easy obtainable for China, for example.

And I imagine as time passes, powers 'will shift in the world, as new world powers, come into power.
Though I can't see the shape.

Though myself, I've only a novice understanding of history, politics, and war.
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@thett3
I don't think anyone knows how well Ukraine is fighting back. It's always hard to get good information about a war while it is going on, especially at the beginning. Unless something major happens, like Kyiv falling or Russia withdrawing, we probably won't know much for at least a few days, likely longer.
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It suggests 'other locations, such as Taiwan, might be easy obtainable for China, for example.

No doubt Taiwan will fall soon after the Ukraine falls. The axis powers have reemerged at a time where there is no resistance.
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@Greyparrot
In a democracy we don't punish people for what they "might" do.
That platitude is not much consolation for the dead people in Ukraine right now
So you are arguing that you should punish someone BEFORE they commit the crime?

The casualties in Ukraine are the result of Putin's aggression. It is his fault and no one else's.

Are you really blaming the sheriff of one town for not preventing a murder in another juristiction?
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@SirAnonymous
Yep. I’m not used to not being able to dig into things to find information, it’s just a wait and see type thing. Still can’t believe it’s actually happening
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@thett3
Nvm i think I mistook what was being thanked with something else I had heard/read. EIther way, Israel has actively taken Ukraine's side now.
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@RationalMadman
Oh yeah they did get a lot of high quality equipment from other countries. That’s about as far as I would go. I don’t like what’s happening but can’t fight Russia over it. I also heard that the Ukrainian government isn’t letting men leave the country and are basically conscripting them all
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@ILikePie5
All of this is happening because of Biden’s weakness and incompetence in foreign policy. Period. Full Stop.
FFS. In 2020 I had a choice -- I could vote for weakness or for cancer.
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@lady3keys
It isn't moral to 'others, to advance your own people by war,
But one 'could argue it is moral to your 'own people.
As well as sensible, depending on one's value, reasons, risks, benefits.
I think.

America also advances Democracy by propaganda, backdoor dealings, I imagine.
Central Intelligence Agency.

Peace, voluntary acceptance being two of the values, in 'addition to Democracy they are advancing,
It's more difficult to do so, 'bluntly, by force.
Though Democracy 'has been advanced by force in history, many a time, Peace and Uncoerced choice, harder to 'force others to accept by war.
I think.

Every country is a potential threat to its neighbors, yes.

Thieves are ubiquitous in the history of nations,
I'm not saying it's right, but the reason of it, precedent, is clear.

The existence of the inevitable, plague, famine, and natural disaster,
Makes being prepared a virtue,
Makes heading it off, an action lauded at times.

"The Romans, observing troubles from afar, always found remedies for them and never allowed them to develop in order to avoid a war, for they knew that war does not go away, but is merely deferred to the advantage of others."
-  The Prince, by Nicolo Machiavelli

A video game isn't reality, but games 'can illustrate reality.

It is considered more honorable, to be hit first in a fight, or a war,
Makes for a seeming 'Just War,
But many prefer their family have their food, their freedom, their homes, than such an honor.

. . .
"Carthage must be destroyed"  -  Cato
Nearness, of dis-similar groups, result in conflict.
The tribes of old, have by war, time, mixing, and contrasting themselves to the outside, formed into nations,
But nations have not yet formed into a single people of Earth, I think.

There are differences, still stark enough, that war 'will come, I think,
Both in bloodshed, and without.
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@ILikePie5
All of this is happening because of Biden’s weakness and incompetence in foreign policy. Period. Full Stop.
All of this is happening because of Putin's aggression and desperate need to reinstate the former USSR.
Period. Full Stop.
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@Castin
All of this is happening because of Biden’s weakness and incompetence in foreign policy. Period. Full Stop.
FFS. In 2020 I had a choice -- I could vote for weakness or for cancer.
😅🤣😂 I made the same choice and it sure as hell wasn't a vote for "cancer".
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So you are arguing that you should punish someone BEFORE they commit the crime?
I am saying having the platitude that on principle, you don't take measures to stop war until it happens is of no relief to the dead people in Ukraine. It's like congratulating the police for showing up after your child died.
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@Castin
FFS. In 2020 I had a choice -- I could vote for weakness or for cancer.
Most cancers are benign, they just look scary. Weakness ensures even the common flu will kill you.
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@Vader
why? America getting humiliated on the world stage is good for me, my family, and my people. Why do you want me to care about Russia? 
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@zedvictor4
LOL.

How big is a buffer zone Doc?

Russia is the largest country in the World.

Don't they have enough room, to be able to create their own buffer zone?

Why do they need a bit of the Ukraine?

Where will they want a bit of next?

You heard the Russian buzz phrase "buffer zone" on TV, didn't you?

You old commie Doc.

You dont understand anything
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@Yassine
No I am not
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I think that the Russians helped a TV actor get elected President of Ukraine so that this present situation would come to exist. Zelensky studied law. He never dealt with the subject and television won him over. He became known as an actor in Ukraine for his leading role in the popular TV series “The Servant of the People”, in which he even embodied the Ukrainian president. His grandfather was a well-known Red Army officer and had distinguished himself in many battles against the Nazi invaders on the Eastern Front. In fact, three of his grandfather's brothers died as martyrs in the concentration camps.

I think that the Russian attack is just a scam and Zelensky will surrender the Ukraine to Russia.
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@Greyparrot
This beats the Statue of liberty for sure.

Oh for sure. I am not interested in liberty
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@Greyparrot
FFS. In 2020 I had a choice -- I could vote for weakness or for cancer.
Most cancers are benign, they just look scary. Weakness ensures even the common flu will kill you.
Great point. I should have said "malignant stage three brain cancer."

It's comforting that you admit he is some kind of cancer though. This is progress.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
Is that a good thing or a bad thing?
unequivocally negative
Greyparrot
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I think that the Russians helped a TV actor get elected President of Ukraine so that this present situation would come to exist.
It took Putin a few months to plan and capture Crimea under Obama and Biden but took him over 5 years after installing Trump as a puppet?

Highly unlikely. You are giving Putin way too much credit. Any tinpot dictator could read the tealeaves after Afghanistan fell in such a spectacularly disastrous way.
Biden practically told Putin to go ahead with his infamous speech.


Even a junk news outlet like CNN saw this coming.

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@Dr.Franklin
Oh for sure. I am not interested in liberty
That explains a lot.
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@Dr.Franklin
why? America getting humiliated on the world stage is good for me, my family, and my people. Why do you want me to care about Russia? 
I have a question to ask about this, and I promise that I am being sincere here. I'm not being snarky or sarcastic.

You say that America getting humiliated is good for you. Are you anti-American?
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@Castin
It's comforting that you admit he is some kind of cancer though. This is progress.

I've always said he was a nasty man. But his benign cancer made us stronger because it didn't kill us.

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@Castin
It's not easy to trigger my complete contempt. Congratulations.

Note that this was written pre-invasion. Didn't intend for this thread to be the main place for discussion of the invasion.

with that said, YOU WILL NEVER BRING ME TO CARE ABOUT RUSSIA
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@thett3
Apparently, this is the "minor incursion" Biden was talking about in January.
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@SirAnonymous
I have a question to ask about this, and I promise that I am being sincere here. I'm not being snarky or sarcastic.

You say that America getting humiliated is good for you. Are you anti-American?
The same government that hates my guts getting humiliated?? Couldnt be a bad thing
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@SirAnonymous
Order>Liberty
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The US bullies countries on the regular. 
Is bullying countries a good thing or a bad thing?
unequivocally negative
I agree with you, but Putin thinks you're full of shit.
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@lady3keys
And just when I was about to get back on this site ...

This comment goes against democracy (which the Ukraine is), against an international treaty that Russia swore to uphold, against decency and against what the Ukrainians WANT FOR THEMSELVES!
I am not in favor of the invasion, I think it's rather petty.


Over 90% of their country voted to become a democracy, to become independent. That is 44 million people who DO NOT WANT a dictator telling them what to do.
Clueless. If you think this is about democracy then you really dont understand geopolitics

I am not a regular here, so I can say this.
ANYONE WHO SIDES WITH OUR LONG-TIME ENEMY, PUTIN, OVER A DEMOCRATIC NATION IS A TRAITOR.

If I get banned for this, I get banned. Democracy is WORTH IT!
Democracy is not your friend. It is never your friend. It is the God that has failed