PRO DEBATE MEANS ANTI-AUTHORITARIANISM / PRO DEBATE MEANS ANTI-PUTIN

Author: oromagi
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stop Putin
authoritarianism

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#91
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@RationalMadman
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 Free Speech has no greater living enemy on this planet than Vladimir Putin. 
Well, that's excluding the leaders of Middle East and China (let's not even call North Korea a genuine country, it's a hellhole posing as a legitimate nation). 

I agree you could make a good argument that some of those autocrats are less permissive than Putin in terms of Free Speech  but none bring quite the same level of disinformation and disruption internationally.  China and Iran are major sources of fake news and tweetbots in Western nations but Russia beats them all in terms of frequency and influence.  I'm sure China has plenty of Western politicians on their payroll but  with nothing like the boldness and scope of Putin's network -  a US President, a National Security Advisor, a NY Mayor with a heroic biography, etc - breathtaking influence.  I see opinions expressed on this site almost daily that were likely manufactured in GRU workshops, people citing undisguised  Russian propaganda raw as a source of US News, etc. The fact that FOX News is actually defending Putin's violation of international treaties written and guaranteed by the US is a  jaw-dropping of that foreign influence.  Yes, I do put Putin at the very top of any  list of enemies of Free Speech
#92
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That makes no sense at all, you are saying because he utilises free speech more than the other tyrants when it suits his agenda, he's more against it than those that don't bother with disinformation as much but oppress their own people just as fervently as Putin, if not more, within their own nation.

You are not talking about an enemy of free speech I think you mean enemy of America.
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#93
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That makes no sense at all, you are saying because he utilises free speech more than the other tyrants when it suits his agenda, he's more against it than those that don't bother with disinformation as much but oppress their own people just as fervently as Putin, if not more, within their own nation.
Nope, I am saying that because Putin commands  more prevention, distortion, disruption, etc of Free Speech than any other group on the planet, Putin is Free Speech's greatest enemy.  I really don't care what Putin thinks about Free Speech.

You are not talking about an enemy of free speech I think you mean enemy of America.
Nope.  Putin was a major in player in misinforming the UK about BREXIT, financing Marine Le Pen's candidacy for French President, funding neo-NAZI and skinhead organizations throughout Europe, etc all the while.   Foreign government propaganda disguised as free speech is not free speech.  We can argue whether shouting fire in a theater is free speech but shouting fire so constantly that the movie can't be understood is a violation of free speech.  Wikileaks may appear to be a clearinghouse for leaked govt. documents but once you learn that Assange is on Putin's payroll and sometimes edits leaked documents and withholds some documents for blackmail, free speech is violated and were just looking at more foreign govt. propaganda.
#94
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Nope.  Putin was a major in player in misinforming the UK about BREXIT, financing Marine Le Pen's candidacy for French President, funding neo-NAZI and skinhead organizations throughout Europe, etc all the while.   Foreign government propaganda disguised as free speech is not free speech. 
What is free speech then?
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#95
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Declaration of Human Rights:

Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers
So to the extent that a foreign govt interferes with my right to seek accurate information and prevents me from imparting correct information  back to the source, Putin is the worst offender
#96
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Okay, for me there are two distinct classifications:

  1. Known active manipulator of News abroad
  2. Known enemy of free speech within domain
Putin has been caught with #1 more than most (I reckon China does it the most and aims to prevent the Media they can influence mentioning them in a negative light). On the pther hand, you said he is the most #2 on the planet. I can think of places on Africa and Latin Ameroca, not only Middle East and Chona, where you need to watch what you say really carefully or there are potentially fatal consequences if not at least threats.


#97
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Germany today massively increased its military spending.  Germany is preparing for war with Russia. 
I follow German media quite closely because I am learning German. When I stated this it was true but it appears Germany has changed course https://www.vox.com/22960493/germany-chancellor-reversal-defense-war-russia-ukraine