What's the situation with the Hunter Biden's Laptop?

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ILikePie5
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@ADreamOfLiberty
I think an associate of Hunter Biden, who was disgusted with Hunter’s actions brought the laptop anonymously to the shop owner. All in the hopes of that fact that the guy would bring it to light.

It doesn’t make any sense for Hunter himself to do this and never get the laptop or hard drive back. 
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Tell me you think conspiracy theories and transparently biased (bordering on tabloid) sources deserve inordinate amounts of attention without telling me...
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@oromagi
IF they were in possession of that stolen private data while working on the Trump-  that's breaking in and stealing campaign dirt from the Democrats during a Presidential Election- that is classic Watergate and the FBI would not ignore.  
It wasn't stolen, and the new example to give is the Clinton-FBI spying framejob. It's much worse than watergate was.

Even brought before Congress an FBI officer would be obligated to say he does not know and cannot say (and Gaetz, of course, is well aware of those restrictions.
Where in the world did you get that? The FBI seized the laptop. If it's not part of an ongoing investigation they can talk about it all they want. (hell they can talk about ongoing investigations, they just choose not to)

The only reason it would be relevant in an ongoing investigation is either to find the people who forged it or if it was genuine and could be used against Biden(s).
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@ADreamOfLiberty
People who I will definitely call out if they ever say something like "that's whataboutism":
Whataboutism would be throwing out accusations to avoid addressing an argument. First, there was no argument presented by the OP. Secondly, I sincerely commented on the subject matter the OP presented (that is as close as I can get to addressing an argument).

On the other hand,  you have not responded substantively to my op and you accuse me of wrongdoing....sounds like whataboutism to me. It's pretty clear you have no idea what you're talking about.

If you want to address my criticism about the chain of custody, we can have a conversation. If not, I am not interested in dishonest interlocutors.



ADreamOfLiberty
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@SkepticalOne
Tell me you think conspiracy theories and transparently biased (bordering on tabloid) sources deserve inordinate amounts of attention without telling me...
So both NYP and NYT are untrustworthy, good to know. I'll try to remember if you link to either in the future.

On the other hand,  you have not responded substantively to my op
If you had read the thread you would see your comment was already preempted. Either you still haven't read the thread, or you don't care and are just what-abouting me rather than admit it.

You said:
If Gaetz does have the laptop, where did he get it from?
In post #10 ILikePie5 suggested Gaetz did not have it, only the contents.

In post #13 I confirmed with a link.

People who I will definitely call out if they ever say something like "that's whataboutism":
Whataboutism would be throwing out accusations to avoid addressing an argument.
Observe:
[SkepticalOne] Besides, I would really like to know about the sex trafficking charges against Gaetz.
Because that is relevant to Hunter's laptop? I don't think so.
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@ILikePie5
I think an associate of Hunter Biden, who was disgusted with Hunter’s actions brought the laptop anonymously to the shop owner. All in the hopes of that fact that the guy would bring it to light.

It doesn’t make any sense for Hunter himself to do this and never get the laptop or hard drive back. 
People on and off drugs aren't cop-drama villains who carefully plan everything out. I can easily see Hunter leaving it, it was incredibly irresponsible to have videos of you committing crimes unencrypted in the first place.

If someone other than Hunter dropped it off, it wasn't anonymously it was via impersonation. The Mac shop knew it was Hunter Biden's based on the invoice.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
People on and off drugs aren't cop-drama villains who carefully plan everything out. I can easily see Hunter leaving it, it was incredibly irresponsible to have videos of you committing crimes unencrypted in the first place.
True, but why wouldn’t he go to get it back? 

If someone other than Hunter dropped it off, it wasn't anonymously it was via impersonation. The Mac shop knew it was Hunter Biden's based on the invoice.
The laptop contents were about Hunter, but the shop owner said that he couldn’t really tell if it was Hunter. The man just said his name was Hunter. Anyone could do that
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@ADreamOfLiberty

If you had read the thread
Reading the thread is not required to comment on the OP.

Whataboutism would be throwing out accusations to avoid addressing an argument.
Observe:
[SkepticalOne] Besides, I would really like to know about the sex trafficking charges against Gaetz.
Because that is relevant to Hunter's laptop? I don't think so.
Avoiding the argument AND throwing out accusations are both necessary for whataboutism. You claimed fallacy, but you were mistaken.  

If Gaetz does have the laptop, where did he get it from?
In post #10 ILikePie5 suggested Gaetz did not have it, only the contents.
This is not a strong rebuttal. Gaetz doesn't have the laptop (even though he claimed to) and only has the info from it. So? My question regarding chain of custody is not answered by this. The data still has an uncertain provenance.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Whatabout whataboutism?

You've got an alien masquerading in plain sight as a U.S. politician , and the only thing that you're worried about is a laptop.

Whatabout intergalactic security.
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@SkepticalOne
Avoiding the argument AND throwing out accusations are both necessary for whataboutism. You claimed fallacy, but you were mistaken.  
No that is an absurd way to look at it. You could fill a book with fallacies and claim they weren't fallacies because you addressed the argument in the last sentence. There was addressing the argument in the same post with a fallacy.

If Gaetz does have the laptop, where did he get it from?
In post #10 ILikePie5 suggested Gaetz did not have it, only the contents.
This is not a strong rebuttal. Gaetz doesn't have the laptop (even though he claimed to) and only has the info from it. So? My question regarding chain of custody is not answered by this.
That is a deflection. You assumed he had the laptop, then you questioned the chain of custody in that context. You are only now expanding the scope of your comment away from Gaetz because you learned he didn't actually have it.

In fact the full history of the chain of custody as it is reported was laid out before you posted. So it isn't merely a matter of you failing to read the thread, your question was answered already and yet you continue to claim that your question was not answered. In fact it wasn't answered again specifically in response to you.

The data still has an uncertain provenance.
Then the NYP, NYT, and the FBI all proceed based on data of uncertain provenance.

That's actually true, both parts. It's not absolutely proven to be Hunter's laptop and media will almost always run stories without confirming, cops (including feds) will try to use evidence for which there is reasonable doubt. People are convicted despite reasonable doubt all the time.

The interesting part is how suddenly 100% certainty is needed or no story is run, and then when an election goes your way the burden of proof suddenly becomes lighter again. The interesting part is how 50 "intelligence" people all decided it was Russian disinformation "cause you know they do that sort of thing".

Some of the best detective stories involve getting a confession on a bluff, and when the conspiracy shows itself in order to discredit evidence of its existence....
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@ILikePie5
People on and off drugs aren't cop-drama villains who carefully plan everything out. I can easily see Hunter leaving it, it was incredibly irresponsible to have videos of you committing crimes unencrypted in the first place.
True, but why wouldn’t he go to get it back? 
Well he was a busy man. He had fake jobs to do, government officials to meet, so on and so forth. He must have figured it was thrown away or was wiped already. Or maybe he forgot all the damning things that were on it. Outside the movies even careful people slip up sometimes and he does not seem like a careful person.

If it was an impersonator that is hardly explained any better. If your laptop just went missing and it had incriminating stuff unencrypted on it would you just shrug? Maybe this supposed betrayer lied about disposing of it, but in that case Hunter would know exactly who it was when it showed up again. That guy would have suddenly felt suicidal or else come out.

If someone other than Hunter dropped it off, it wasn't anonymously it was via impersonation. The Mac shop knew it was Hunter Biden's based on the invoice.
The laptop contents were about Hunter, but the shop owner said that he couldn’t really tell if it was Hunter. The man just said his name was Hunter. Anyone could do that
If it wasn't Hunter then it was someone claiming to be Hunter and like you said the only reason to make that claim is to get the contents discovered. It's a bizarre way to try and get something out to the world. There is no guarantee the tech would look at the contents, if I was fixing someone's laptop and repossessed it I would just wipe it clean I'm not that curious.

That's true for associate's of Hunter as well as Russian spies or plotting ex-mayors of New York. So if it wasn't Hunter it was probably planted evidence and the repair shop guy knew he had a part to play, and if you assume the repair shop guy is part of the conspiracy you no longer need someone to drop it off.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Nobody said it was new,

News story.  Not a credible news story.

but you're incredibly naive.
Sure but that doesn't get your laptop verified, does it?

Why is it that you aren't "sure you would have heard about it" if the FBI had failed to authenticate the laptop.
Because Giuliani, Bannon, and Gaetz would have leaked it.

FBI would do everything possible to help the democratic party
If you think that the FBI is not an overwhelmingly Republican institution that you don't know anything about the FBI.  There are a few liberals and a few Democrats but before Trump, a substantial majority of the FBI voted Republican by all accounts.

You're lack of knowledge on epistemology is slowing you down again here.
I don't need to show anything at any pace.  Your job was to prove that the laptop(s) were thrice authenticated and you have failed on all 3 counts.  The FBI saying that it has no evidence of Russian disinformation gives no insight on whether the laptop was Biden's.  Stay focused.

If you take as a given that there is a laptop which appears to have Hunter's stuff on it, and you can compile a finite list of plausible explanation for its existence then eliminating every possibility except one is a strong argument in favor of the one.
Well, if we are going with PLAUSIBLE explanations, then the notion that a guy who spent much of his life as the target of Republican smear campaigns would just casually drop off three laptops with any kind of personal information on them to a guy who just happens to be Giuliani's biggest fan and never even bothered to  make a call back to find out what happened to all this important information is not one of those PLAUSIBLE explanations, is it?


This is of course glossing over the fact that what you're doing right now is special pleading.
I don't think you understand what special pleading means.

  • You said, "Here's Biden signature on the receipt!"
  • I said, "Why doesn't it match his Driver's License?"
I call that a fairly comprehensive rebuttal.

Well fine, I can't prove it's not deepfaked
Deepfaked suggests that the evidence is superficially convincing.  A non-matching signature is superficially unconvincing.

What's the alternative hypothesis?
I can think of plenty but right now we're just disproving your claim.  My unproved theories would only muddy.

The simplest explanation, the least "conspiratorial" is that the confirmed emails and confirmed videos came from Hunter's laptop and that his laptop was left at a Mac repair shop.
With so many prior copies made that experts can't confirm that what hard drive they originated?  Why would you have 217 Gb of  copies of email files on your personal laptop rather than just mails in your  account?   That's just  maxing out  your entire storage for no reason.   Doesn't the fact that Biden is alleged to have accidently chosen Rudy Giuliani's biggest fan to fix his PCs rather strain credulity?   Why would Hunter Biden, who lives in California, take three laptops to a mac repair shop in Delaware?  Yes, his father lives there and Hunter used to live there so he might be visiting but would you travel with three laptops?  And if those laptops were so important that you had to bring them with you on vacation and you did accidently get them all simultaneously water damaged on the same trip how would they then be so unimportant that your forgot to pick them up.  How big do your vodka tonics have to be to get three laptops water damaged simultaneously anyway?

You have to believe a whole long line of totally crazy shit is true to buy Giuliani's.

This isn't the sole piece of evidence of the conspiracy either. Joe's statements about what he did, Biden's unusual positions, meetings, the testimony of Bobulinski and Shokin.
Even if you bought everything else, your conspiracy falls apart on motive.  Trump claims that Shokin was investigating the Bidens but we now know for a fact that was never true.  Trump claims that Biden was trying to stop an investigation into Burisma but everybody in Ukraine knows that's not true. There was an investigation into Burisma but Shokin was corruptly slow-walking that investigation.  Firing the manifestly corrupt Shokin didn't kill the investigation, on the contrary the investigation didn't really start until Shokin was ousted.

When Biden demanded Shokin's termination, he was literally representing the Free World- EU, NATO, IMF, World Bank all demanded Shokin out before Ukraine could make any claim of improving democracy and transparency.    Why would you call Biden's position unusual?

The basic motive in Trump's conspiracy is the opposite of true.  Any Ukrainian reporter will tell you that Shokin was incredibly corrupt and was clearly not interested in investigating Bursima.





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@SkepticalOne
POST #26- complains about WHATABOUTISM
POST #33- what about Hillary?
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Humans don't talk like that, you need to learn from Matt Gaetz as his human-acting is much better than yours.
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Humans don't talk like what?.....Aliens?

And Mattgaetzquertermous, or Matzermous as it's known throughout the universe........Is a renowned cosmic polyglot, for sure.

But too much time spent in the Beamatron imbibing alcohol with intergalactic nymphets, has exposed it's prosthetic head.


I'm not making this up.
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What exactly is your theory? That it’s all made up? 
I don't think I need an alternative conspiracy theory to debunk a proposed conspiracy theory.  The truth is we generally never discover what really happened.

Still, my guess is that Biden spoke the truth to that prostitute secretly recording him in 2018 when he said:

Hunter: 'You know what I just thought of something. When I was in California [inaudible] before I met you. I was with these guys. The one guy was, not like you anyway. 
'Primarily my source, ok? And I spent fu**ing crazy amounts of money. I went to Las Vegas and he said it would be one day. I made him promise me it would be one day. I hate Las Vegas. 
'And so literally after 18 days going round from penthouse suite to penthouse suite [inaudible] four different hotels, and thousands of dollars. I didn't even know. He had my credit card, he said we got half off, I was like great. Then I found out it was $10,000 a night. I'm like what.
'And each night he'd be like 'there's going to be so many people here, crazy fu**ing party' and each night it's nobody.
'Hold on I'm peeing. 
'And so that's when I went into the pool. Into the tub. In the hot tub, above, in Palms that hangs over the side [Inaudible] more than I usually do, way more than that [inaudible] 
'And I went out to the hot tub by myself, which hangs over the edge of the fu**ing top floor, with glass, it's ridiculous.
'And so I'm sitting there and that's the last I remember. And I don't ever pass out, ever.
'I wake up and the only people that are there are Miguel, the guy frantically running round gathering things up, ok – and Miguel, and Pierce, this guy, his friend. 
'So anyway, and they had kicked everybody out. And they had cleaned up the entire place, everything ok? And they were getting ready to leave, and I woke up. And there was this Russian 35-year-old, really nice, pure brunette.
'[Inaudible] I don't know how long. She refused to leave until they – she refused to leave and they wouldn't call an ambulance. And they didn't know whether I was dead or not, at first.
Hooker: ' They couldn't just come over and check [inaudible]' 
Hunter: 'They checked to see if I was breathing. When I finally showed signs of breath, at first I wasn't breathing, I was in the fu**ing pool face down, they don't know how long.
'And she told me that they don't, they were like 'we thought we'd get everybody out, because you know we didn't want, if we had to call, we didn't want everybody…' And she went no. They demanded that [inaudible] 
'Two months before… [inaudible] 
Hooker: 'Continue with the story please.' 
Hunter: 'Anyway my computer, I had taken tons of like, just left like that cam on. And he would always put in a passcode and all that, you know what I mean? It was fu**ing crazy sh*t. And somebody stole it during that period of time. He did all this kind of like pretend search and sh*t. 
'The last thing he sent me was $2,000 worth of stuff in an Uber and he sent me a [inaudible] with the Uber, and I had to send the money to a cash app or something....just waiting
Hooker: '...In Las Vegas [inaudible]' 
Hunter: 'I think he's the one that stole my computer. I think the three of them, the three guys that were like a little, like group. The dealer and his two guys, I took them everywhere. Fu**ing everywhere, crazy out of your mind sh*t.
'The Russian [inaudible] she'd walk out with a fu**ing bathing suit in her hand. 
'They have videos of me doing this. They have videos of me doing crazy fu**ing sex fu**ing, you know.
Hooker: 'How long ago did this happen?'
Hunter: 'Summer.'
Hooker: 'So it would have been out already if they-'
Hunter: 'No no no, because my dad [inaudible] running for president. He is, he is, he is. I talk about it all the time. If they do, he also knows I make like a gazillion dollars.'
Hooker: 'They'd try to blackmail you?'
Hunter: 'Yeah in some way yeah.'
That sounds like a fairly honest story to me.   Hunter got roofied by his drug dealer at the Palms and nearly drowned in the pool and woke up to a mysterious Russian woman who made some unspecified demands and disappeared with Hunter's laptop containing videos of Hunter doing "crazy fucking sex fucking" and a bunch of emails.

Six months later, TIME reports that unknown agents in Kyiv were approaching people associated with the Trump campaign, offering explicit photos and Hunter emails for $5 million dollars. The two anonymous TIME sources say that the $5 million photos were the same that Giuliani gave to the Post.

I think that's a very likely and straightforward scenario- Giuliani paid for the Biden dirt but then had to invent some plausible scenario to explain how he came into custody of that shit- that's when Giuliani's favorite superfan who ran a Mac store in Delaware came into the picture.  Mac Isaac could never really keep his story straight but he closed down his whole operation and moved to Colorado and hasn't worked since, which does suggest some new source of funding.

I don't think anything on the laptop is particularly criminal (or we'd know by now)  but its certainly quite corrupt and dissolute.  I'm sure Trump is going to milk it as long as he can- he seems to be able to get his followers to re-engage on the subject every time a negative story appears about him.

I think the FBI knows all this but can't say anything because there is still an active investigation into Giuliani's escapades in Ukraine.


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@oromagi
Giuliani is a cosmic lizard.

The black blood seeping out of it's  head in the parking lot was a dead give away.
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but you're incredibly naive.
Sure but that doesn't get your laptop verified, does it?
It's not mine, and my claim was that three orgs had confirmed it (and by it I mean the data that is being shared around because all you can confirm about a laptop minus the data is that it is a laptop)

Why is it that you aren't "sure you would have heard about it" if the FBI had failed to authenticate the laptop.
Because Giuliani, Bannon, and Gaetz would have leaked it.
Because Guiliani etc.. would have leaked FBI findings? That doesn't make sense. If the FBI has the laptop (they do), then they can look at serial numbers, data, everything. If they could show it wasn't Biden's why do you think they would do anything but immediately announce that?

FBI would do everything possible to help the democratic party
If you think that the FBI is not an overwhelmingly Republican institution that you don't know anything about the FBI.  There are a few liberals and a few Democrats but before Trump, a substantial majority of the FBI voted Republican by all accounts.
I'm sure that's why they framed the Trump campaign.
Your job was to prove that the laptop(s) were thrice authenticated and you have failed on all 3 counts.
No my job was to show three orgs claiming to be using the information as true, and I have. I didn't say I had authenticated it three times, I said two media orgs and the DOJ had.

The FBI saying that it has no evidence of Russian disinformation
That isn't all they said. They seized the laptop, haven't let it go, widened the investigation shortly thereafter, and then said it wasn't Russian disinformation and that the emails were authentic. Not that "it had no evidence Russian disinformation".
If you take as a given that there is a laptop which appears to have Hunter's stuff on it, and you can compile a finite list of plausible explanation for its existence then eliminating every possibility except one is a strong argument in favor of the one.
Well, if we are going with PLAUSIBLE explanations, then the notion that a guy who spent much of his life as the target of Republican smear campaigns would just casually drop off three laptops with any kind of personal information on them to a guy who just happens to be Giuliani's biggest fan and never even bothered to  make a call back to find out what happened to all this important information is not one of those PLAUSIBLE explanations, is it?
Why do you believe there was ever more than one laptop?

As for why he would leave it and never pick it up? Essentially the same reason Joe bragged about using his influence to affect US foreign policy to extort the removal of his personal enemy in the form of a prosecutor going after corruption. Sometimes the bad guys are so used to being bad and invulnerable that they forget what they need to hide.

This is of course glossing over the fact that what you're doing right now is special pleading.
I don't think you understand what special pleading means.
I think I do, you have a categorical statement or principle and then you try to claim that it shouldn't apply for any reason other than actually being outside the given category.
  • You said, "Here's Biden signature on the receipt!"
  • I said, "Why doesn't it match his Driver's License?"
I call that a fairly comprehensive rebuttal.
You are acting like it's not a match, it is neither a match nor a non-match to the untrained eye. People DO write signatures very differently depending on the time and formality. My signature is almost always illegible, everyone I know has illegible signatures on all receipts, but not on their driver's licenses or marriage license.

I still call it special pleading because there is no way in hell that the media you rely on would ever reject a signature match if they thought it implicated one of Trump's sons in something. It wouldn't have even been brought to your attention because left-wing news does not feel the need to show pictures for corroboration. They assert, and if you don't believe that shows how racist and antidemocratic you are.

If I treated all news with the skepticism that extends to demanding photographs of receipts and my personal opinion on whether they match I would reject everything and I am 98% sure you aren't like that.

What's the alternative hypothesis?
I can think of plenty but right now we're just disproving your claim.  My unproved theories would only muddy.
You think you've come anywhere close to disproving my claim? You have outright dismissed the citations you requested, the citations were complete and irrefutable proof of my claim. Even if (against all odds) it (and by it we mean the emails and other contents on the laptop) was a super complicated Russian plant my assertion would still be true, they would have still confirmed it and they (not me) would have been wrong.

The simplest explanation, the least "conspiratorial" is that the confirmed emails and confirmed videos came from Hunter's laptop and that his laptop was left at a Mac repair shop.
With so many prior copies made that experts can't confirm that what hard drive they originated?  Why would you have 217 Gb of  copies of email files on your personal laptop rather than just mails in your  account?   That's just  maxing out  your entire storage for no reason.
Who said the email cache was 217 Gb? You may be entirely used to webmail with cache size limits, but desktop mail clients have no such restrictions and most will try to maintain local copies for indexed searches and rapid startup. Without an enormous amount of attachments not 217 Gb of course.

Doesn't the fact that Biden is alleged to have accidently chosen Rudy Giuliani's biggest fan to fix his PCs rather strain credulity? 
Not more than the alternative. There are a lot of people who are political. Assuming election exit polls are accurate it's 25/25 you'll run into a strong partisan.

Why would Hunter Biden, who lives in California, take three laptops to a mac repair shop in Delaware?  Yes, his father lives there and Hunter used to live there so he might be visiting but would you travel with three laptops? And if those laptops were so important that you had to bring them with you on vacation and you did accidently get them all simultaneously water damaged on the same trip how would they then be so unimportant that your forgot to pick them up.  How big do your vodka tonics have to be to get three laptops water damaged simultaneously anyway?
I haven't heard about the three laptops thing, just one, but that cuts both ways. Sometimes reality is stranger than fiction and why would anyone make up a story with such obviously unnecessary components?

If Guiliani is your evil mastermind and he can be stupid why can't Hunter?

You have to believe a whole long line of totally crazy shit is true to buy Giuliani's.
I think we can both agree that Guiliani cannot fabricate a local email cache, so the alternative hypothesis isn't that simple either is it.

This isn't the sole piece of evidence of the conspiracy either. Joe's statements about what he did, Biden's unusual positions, meetings, the testimony of Bobulinski and Shokin.
Even if you bought everything else, your conspiracy falls apart on motive.  Trump claims that Shokin was investigating the Bidens but we now know for a fact that was never true. 
Oh do we? He was investigating burisma. Unless you're claiming investigating burisma isn't the same as investigating Hunter I look forward to having you "prove" your claim here under the same exacting standards you have thus far implied were necessary. (if you are claiming that then you will have convinced me there is little to no hope for you)

Trump claims that Biden was trying to stop an investigation into Burisma but everybody in Ukraine knows that's not true.
Everybody.... it must of taken a long time for you to interview that many.
There was an investigation into Burisma but Shokin was corruptly slow-walking that investigation. 
Oh yea that nasty Shokin, Joe just couldn't stand how he wasn't investigating the company his son questionably extracted large amounts of wealth from. Joe is simply that just and honourable.

When Biden demanded Shokin's termination, he was literally representing the Free World- EU, NATO, IMF, World Bank all demanded Shokin out before Ukraine could make any claim of improving democracy and transparency.
More claims, I'm looking forward to declaring media organizations to be "not credible"

POST #33- what about Hillary?
Hilary was not presenting evidence.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Like I said....Giuliani does leak.
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@oromagi
If that transcript is accurate and it can be confirmed to have originated before the laptop story my opinion will change.
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@zedvictor4
Well even if he is a lizardman I feel sorry for him. This is why you need to get out of the game before you start leaking. One thing leads to another, then some lunatic named Lin Wood is feeding you fan fiction. You're leaking dye. Sacha Baron Cohen sneaking up on you.... He could have just been "tough on crime, 9/11 bad" guy.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
For sure the Lizard being out of place and out of time gets my sympathy too.

And yes....... The vagaries of time and ooze.

And a good job I looked him up, because I assumed that Lin Wood was a girl.

And Sacha Baron Cohen for President .....If it's good enough for the Orange Clown, then it's good enough for Sacha.

Flash....Tough on grime.....9 out of 11 cats preferred it.
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@oromagi
Oh I thought you were saying the contents of the laptop weren’t real, not that it may have gotten into the hands of the media through some dirty dealings from the Trump campaign. I’m agnostic on that as I’ve never really cared too terribly much about that stuff. Your theory and the idea that he idiotically left the laptop at a store both seem plausible to me 
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Avoiding the argument AND throwing out accusations are both necessary for whataboutism. You claimed fallacy, but you were mistaken.  
No that is an absurd way to look at it. 
"Whataboutism [...] is a deflection or red herring version of the classic tu quoque logical fallacy [...] which is employed as a propaganda technique. It is used as a diversionary tactic to shift the focus off of an issue and avoid having to directly address it."


There is no fallacy in addressing the issue and pointing out the hypocrisy.
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@oromagi
POST #26- complains about WHATABOUTISM
POST #33- what about Hillary?
Yes. It is quite amusing. His second post to me (his first was pure snark) was literally whataboutism with whataboutism as the subject. Apparently, DOL believes fallacies are what other people do.

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Do you think that the 17 year old girl traveling with Gaetz had a dream of liberty?
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@SkepticalOne
There is no fallacy in addressing the issue and pointing out the hypocrisy.
There was no hypocrisy. You were talking about chain of custody for evidence and specifically claimed there were "no issues there" in regards to accusation of sex trafficking:
Besides, I would really like to know about the sex trafficking charges against Gaetz. That seem less difficult to decipher since he has admitted to actions that could be classified as such. No chain of custody issues there...
There is no double standard here, no hypocrisy. Perhaps some poisoning the well. The obvious intention is to imply that if some people call Gaetz bad his opposition is awarded a "get out of jail free" card for Hunter.

POST #26- complains about WHATABOUTISM
POST #33- what about Hillary?
Yes. It is quite amusing. His second post to me (his first was pure snark) was literally whataboutism with whataboutism as the subject. Apparently, DOL believes fallacies are what other people do.
My second post to you:

Please point out the whataboutism.

[oromagi] POST #26- complains about WHATABOUTISM
POST #33- what about Hillary?
[SkepticalOne echos]
From your wiki link:
It [Whataboutism] does not apply to the comparison and analysis of two similar issues in terms such as why some are given more social prominence than others.
Watergate and Spygate are analogous events that are being given differing social prominence.

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@ADreamOfLiberty
The obvious intention is to imply that if some people call Gaetz bad his opposition is awarded a "get out of jail free" card for Hunter.
A 'get out of jail free card' is not needed when you're not actually in jail. 

There is no double standard here, no hypocrisy. Perhaps some poisoning the well.
...like attacking Hunter in an effort to disparage his dad? 

If there were a case against Hunter,  the floor of the House of Representatives is not where it should be tried. This is political theatre.

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There is no double standard here, no hypocrisy. Perhaps some poisoning the well.
...like attacking Hunter in an effort to disparage his dad? 
No, poisoning the well is trying to discredit an argument by saying the one who advances it is toxic; subclass ad hominem. Attacking hunter (who isn't making any arguments) to disparage his dad would be guilt by association.

However claiming that this story is or was about guilt by association is a strawman. The claim has never been Hunter = degenerate therefore Joe bad. It has always been Hunter = corrupt/criminal agent of Joe, therefore Joe is corrupt/criminal, therefore Joe bad.

If there were a case against Hunter,  the floor of the House of Representatives is not where it should be tried. This is political theatre.
The floor is where cases against the sitting president de jure are tried by constitutional implication and by recent precedent.

Was recent precedent political theatre? Yes, and old precedent too. In fact just about everything that happens in DC is political theatre since 1790.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Life on Earth is theatre....And acting our parts provides us all with meaning.

But do you think that anything is watching?