Are Christians Inspired by the Bible or by The Preacher

Author: Stephen ,

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  • Stephen
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    I personally find absolutely nothing inspiring about the bible.

    There are, without question, some lovely fluffy things written in these scriptures but to go so far as to say they are inspiring" as many people I know profess they are, they come unstuck when trying to explain what and why they find the scriptures "inspiring".

    Seriously, who can get inspired by someone saying " take up thy bed and walk"?
    Or 





     

  • Mopac
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    I personally find the epistles to be very edifying and inspirational. Very enlightened writings.


    They are also probably the best writings in the bible for coming to understand what the faith is about.







  • EtrnlVw
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    --> @Stephen
    I personally find absolutely nothing inspiring about the bible.

    Wow, If you don't find anything inspiring about an afflicted people becoming the spiritual force in the world, and the testimony of Jesus in a religiously darkened world what could possibly inspire you? inspiration comes from defeating the odds, Jesus' life was one of those amazing odds that changed the world. He singlehandedly resurfaced the face of religion. Could you do that, in a world where you are at total odds? welcome to the world of Jesus. 

    There are, without question, some lovely fluffy things written in these scriptures but to go so far as to say they are inspiring" as many people I know profess they are, they come unstuck when trying to explain what and why they find the scriptures "inspiring".

    Maybe those "fluffy things" in scripture aren't inspiring because you have a conspiracy theory behind everything spiritual and worth anything? in other words they are not inspiring because you don't personally believe it, that's called opinion, where you make up crap to replace the reality of it all. 

    Seriously, who can get inspired by someone saying " take up thy bed and walk"?
    Or 

    Seriously, who CANNOT get inspired by such an inspirational figure like Jesus of the Gospels who could declare that a man ridden in his bed can rise and walk just by through the power of believing and could love despite being hated? who was a rebel, a passionate lover of God and a man that understood the power of love and works vs talk......unless one were to assume Jesus as a fictional character why is He not an inspirational figure? 

  • Plisken
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    --> @Stephen
    Your interpretations kinda read like the script of a horror film, the part where the smart guy starts to speak up, then is interupted by the leader who procedes to rationalize the choice of certain doom before being reinforced by the hot chick.

  • EtrnlVw
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    --> @Stephen
    Let me ask you this, can you name a single name that has been more influential/inspiring than Jesus of the Gospels? 
  • Castin
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    Jesus makes people feel loved, watched over, joyful, and at peace. Their image of Jesus comes from the New Testament and the New Testament is in the Bible, ergo the Bible inspires them.

    But it would be interesting if we magically removed all preachers and teachers of religion, leaving only Bibles in the world, to see how many people would take inspiration from just the book, no preachers. I think many still would.
  • Mopac
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    I think of the thousands of years of church writings from the church fathers, saints, monastics, theologians, etc. And I can't help but marvel the shame that most people, even professed Christians are wholly ignorant of alll those who came before them. 

    Protestant and so callled "nondenominational" churches have lost a great deal by abandoning the ancient tradition of venerating the saints.













  • Castin
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    --> @Mopac
    You're Catholic?
  • ethang5
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    How literate would you think a person was who professed to find nothing worthy about "War and Peace"?

    How literate would you think a person was who professed to find nothing worthy about Shakespeare?

    Or the Taj Mahal? Or the Moon Landings? Or Beethoven?

    Can you imagine a person who questioned the refreshing quality of water and dismissed the billions claiming to be refreshed by it?

    Would you debate or dismiss him?
  • Stephen
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    --> @EtrnlVw
    inspiration comes from defeating the odds,
    What did Jesus defeat? He was nailed up for all his seditious activities. Well done Jesus. Jesus 0 Romans 1
     
    Jesus' life was one of those amazing odds that changed the world.
    Opinion. It was The Battle of the Milvian and  Roman Emperor Constantine I in particular who changed the world. Early Christianity Was still being persecuted and stamped out up until that point some 300 years after the crucifixion. Constantine  didn’t “convert himself until he wason his deathbed.
     
    He single handedly resurfaced the face of religion. 
    Not sure what you mean by that, but it sounds good, “resurfaced”.  I think Paul had more to do with the “resurfacing” though. Jesus was a Jew, who had failed at his mission .The mission of the Messiah was to free the JEWISH people from the Roman yoke.
     
    who CANNOT get inspired by such an inspirational figure like Jesus of the Gospels 
    That too is “opinion”. Some will find Jesus “inspirational”I don’t doubt.  But you have quickly lost sight of the fact my questions concerns the BIBLE  It is not necessarily  concerned with a single individual.  The bible making contradictory statements (of which there are many) such as :
     
     “Remember The Sabbath day, to keep it holy.” — Exodus 20:8
    “One Man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let Every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.” — Romans 14:5
    OR
    " I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.” — Genesis 32:30
    “No man hath seen God at any time…”– John 1:18
    OR
    “with God all things are possible.” — Matthew 19:26
    “…TheLORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.” — Judges 1:19...

    doesn’t inspire me at all. It shows it to be weak on “inspiration.

    who was a rebel,
    Jesus  was if we believe the gospels and the Romans. And so where all of his disciples.
    unless one were to assume Jesus as a fictional character why is He not an inspirational figure? 
     
    Oh I believe he existed. I just don’t believe what THE BIBLE says about him or his works . <<<< see that? the BIBLE! You keep losing focus of the ACTUAL question.


     

  • Stephen
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    --> @Castin
    But it would be interesting if we magically removed all preachers and teachers of religion, leaving only Bibles in the world, to see how many people would take inspiration from just the book, no preachers. I think many still would. 

    Congratulations Castin. You have actually addressed the topic of the thread and here it is again for those who are probably purposefully missing the ACTUAL question already:

    Are Christians Inspired by the Bible or by The Preacher?

    leaving only Bibles in the world, to see how many people would take inspiration from just the book, no preachers.

     No i think it would have died long ago as Jesus was a flash in the pan with a ministry that didn't last more than 12 months at least ands 2 years at a push . In the TOTAL of his works the Pharasse Priest Flavius Josephus doesn't spend too much time on this man, just a few passages "who some called a wonder worker", just one or two verses in fact.


  • Stephen
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    --> @Mopac
    Protestant and so callled "nondenominational" churches have lost a great deal by abandoning the ancient tradition of venerating the saints.

    Stick with the topic or leave it. I don't want your rubbish cluttering up my thread.
  • Plisken
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    --> @Stephen
    I have often not found the preacher to be very inspiring. The "inspirational" preachers I have met as you might guess, I did not like at all.  These individuals I am referring to ran nondenominational establishments. Some are really cool though, and many do good things for their community and would serve fine as a role model.  I think Christians might be better served by interest in who is inspired by God. 


  • Plisken
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    I mean the ones I didn't like were nondenominational.  I was invited, attended, and I did not like the fruit brought of those places or the preacher.
  • Castin
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    --> @Stephen
    It's hard to imagine that Christianity would've gotten off the ground without Paul.

  • Plisken
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     “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
    37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b] 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”


  • Polytheist-Witch
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    --> @Stephen
    Than don't be a Christian, problem solved. 
  • EtrnlVw
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    --> @Stephen
    Congratulations Castin. You have actually addressed the topic of the thread and here it is again for those who are probably purposefully missing the ACTUAL question already:

    Are Christians Inspired by the Bible or by The Preacher?

    I would say both at times. Sometimes a good preacher can elaborate on things that the scripture might not elaborate on. Personally I don't listen to any preachers but there are a few good ones. There's about three teachers I indulge in every so often but they must meet my requirements and my requirements for teachers are really finicky. 
    Having said that, I fell in love with the Gospels and the Jesus character when I was a young boy about 8 years old. I would read the Bible and apply everything I thought was applicable on my own accord. TBH I always thought of Jesus as a hero and certainly inspiring. It always surprises me how others see things so differently. 

  • Mopac
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    --> @Castin
    No, I am Orthodox Catholic, though I am very involved in protestant and nondenominational churches. 

    Big difference between Orthodox Catholic and Roman Catholic.


    The Bishop of Rome went renegade from the rest of the church, and when the protestant churches through good discernment broke off from the Romans, they didn't really quite make it back to Orthodoxy, so they are incomplete churches.

    Don't get me wrong, I love em all.

    There are not many orthodox in the west, but a lot of protestants who go to seminary end up finding themselves over here after getting an education.

    There are a few hurdles though, because it is very alien to many protestant churches in appearance, and on the surface looks like Roman Catholicism.

    Stephen doesn't understand how this is very relevent to the subject though, because he hasn't read any of the writings of the saints. He prefers to debate heretics, schismatics, and heterodox Christians. But really, it takes a lot for someone to lean not on their understanding, and Stephen very much resembles a gnostic heretic, that is, someone who places their faith in knowledge rather than The Truth. There is a difference.




  • EtrnlVw
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    --> @Mopac
    No, I am Orthodox Catholic

    Wow, I didn't know that. Nowadays the term "orthodox" worries me in terms of spiritual growth. Most people are unaware how massive creation is and how much there is to experience and learn apart from religious brands.
  • Mopac
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    --> @EtrnlVw
    Well, that is a very common opinion that mostly comes from ignorance of The Orthodox Church.

    So I would tell you that there may be more to it than you realize based on your surface level acquaintance. Spiritual advancement is a very front and center thing in the church, actually.

    The tradition is good, and there for a reason, but even as the scriptures say,

    "know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers"


     A lot of it might look strange, but there is a reason for all of it. None of it is done without purpose. 

    I believe that closer you examine the interpretations of the various churches, it is very clear that The Orthodox Church has the truth, and there is something missing in these other churches. 

    And just to make something clear, we have talked before about the whole determinism/freewill debate before. I was expressing what made sense to me personally, but The Church actually teaches a doctrine called "synergism", which is probably closer to how you understood the debate, and is really probably the correct position.


  • EtrnlVw
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    --> @Mopac
    I was in the church for most of my life. Nothing you can share I have not seen or experienced. And no, spiritual advancement is not always front and center in church not even close, not in Jesus' day and not now. Not saying there is no spiritual growth within the church of course, but it is not the source of it. Souls can advance with or without it. 
  • Mopac
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    --> @EtrnlVw
    If someone doesn't have the drive for truth, they are simply going to stay wherever they are at, no matter what environment they are in.

    I would not claim that spiritual advancement can only occur in the church, nor would the church make this claim.

    And when I say The Church, I mean The Orthodox Church, because it isn't like other Christian Churches.


  • Stephen
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    --> @Castin
    It's hard to imagine that Christianity would've gotten off the ground without Paul. 

    I  agree.
  • Stephen
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    --> @Plisken
     “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
    37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b] 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

    very inspiring Plisken, lovely and fluffy, until compared with:


    Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones. Psalm 137:9 KJB

    What inspiration do you get from that verse above? It is from the same book as you have quoted from and the same god.

    Too harsh? I see, then what about this one also from the same book that you quoted from?

    1 Peter 2:18: "Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the cruel."


    Can you tell me what fires you up and gets you inspired about the verse above?