If gender is a social construct, there are only 2-3 genders.

Author: Kritikal

Posts

Total: 64
Topic's author
#31
Kritikal
Kritikal's avatar
Debates: 9
Posts: 76
0
1
7
Kritikal's avatar
Kritikal
0
1
7
-->
@Intelligence_06
1. Contradiction
A 6’ 2” guy with a mustache and giant muscles is not a woman according to the left not because of his physical (biological) attributes, but because of his cultural presentation. Women do not grow a mustache. The gender identification itself is not based on biological traits, but the perception of a person including their biological traits. 

2. Spectrum 
Even if the social construct argument were true, I do not think that the spectrum argument makes very much sense. The spectrum argument assumes that gender is based on masculinity/femininity. The problem with this is that there are very masculine woman, and feminine men that obviously would not qualify as trans.  Take a tomboy for example. 

Gender is also not a numerical concept where someone is a percent of a certain gender. You have a gender. Either male, female, or possibly non-binary. Each of these are distinct things, and assuming non-binary is a valid gender, a non-binary person would be no more a woman than a man. 
#32
Intelligence_06
Intelligence_06's avatar
Debates: 167
Posts: 3,837
5
8
11
Intelligence_06's avatar
Intelligence_06
5
8
11
The root in that there even being gender roles is due to sexism, I think, even though the sexism has been flattened up to this point for men and women to be "separate but equal", when for the last millenia or two men are superior legally-wise.

If men and women are truly equal in all measures in terms of gender role, then a "masculine" body and a "feminine" body are just skins. The reason there are even transgenderism is because of prejudice(I think), or that people think people with a penis can do something people with a vagina cannot do, vice versa, leading to people with a vagina trying to be more like people with a penis.

Maybe it really is better to categorize people based on biological sex, because transgenderism either reinforces what "male" and "female" individuals should be like, aka stereotypes, or it just makes the categorization of gender as a social construct less rigid, less meaningful and less convenient. I wish for a world where men are seen as normal men even if everything they do is "girlish" and "unfitting for a man" for today's standards to some. In such world, they should be able to do anything in trade of that no matter how "masculine" or "feminine" their actions are to the current society, they are always categorized by biological sex.

In the end, "male" and "female", "man" and "woman", these terms should hint nothing about them other than what set of sex organs they have. That is my view.
#33
Intelligence_06
Intelligence_06's avatar
Debates: 167
Posts: 3,837
5
8
11
Intelligence_06's avatar
Intelligence_06
5
8
11
-->
@Kritikal
Ah, forgot to tag you. The post numbered 32 is written in a background without knowing that post 31 has been posted.

As to respond #31:
1. Contradiction: See #32.
2. Spectrum: I agree with you.
Topic's author
#34
Kritikal
Kritikal's avatar
Debates: 9
Posts: 76
0
1
7
Kritikal's avatar
Kritikal
0
1
7
-->
@Intelligence_06
I think that view is at least logically consistent, and is in fact the solution to the social construct issue. Really that only leaves the question if there should be sex based roles rather than whatever "gender based roles" are. This is a much harder question because you can not simply change you sex, so we either have to accept that people should be able to act however they would like, or we have to come to accept some level of societal conformity based on sex (which is essentially just gender that can not be changed I suppose).

I believe that legally people should be able to do whatever they would like, however I am not sure that getting rid of all societal sex-based roles is a great idea on a cultural level. The family is the most basic unit of society, and is responsible for creating and raising children. Other systems that have attempted this have failed. Without any concept of gender I do not see how a family is really possible in the traditional sense, and I think this could lead to devastating consequences. 
#35
Deb-8-a-bull
Deb-8-a-bull's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,029
3
2
3
Deb-8-a-bull's avatar
Deb-8-a-bull
3
2
3
Thus boiling down to.
The fact that. 
One cannot change ones age.   This fact halts the " be what ya want to be " thing.  
#36
Deb-8-a-bull
Deb-8-a-bull's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,029
3
2
3
Deb-8-a-bull's avatar
Deb-8-a-bull
3
2
3
If ya start losening things up you can identify as an Attack helicopter.  
#37
Deb-8-a-bull
Deb-8-a-bull's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,029
3
2
3
Deb-8-a-bull's avatar
Deb-8-a-bull
3
2
3
Then.
Giving a false name to the police has to be delt with.  
#38
Intelligence_06
Intelligence_06's avatar
Debates: 167
Posts: 3,837
5
8
11
Intelligence_06's avatar
Intelligence_06
5
8
11
-->
@Deb-8-a-bull
You don’t compare a man to an attack helicopter aside from that these two are both things.

if anything, you identify as something nonorganic, and to specify, an attack helicopter. Maybe attack helicopters have no gender nor sex, but I don’t see the point identifying as that.
#39
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 11,352
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@Kritikal
As ever:

Sperm producer.

Egg producer.

And a very small amount of developmental anomalies.

And then there is development of recreational sex and all it's social and psychological baggage.......Which is what all the fuss is about.


Lick, suck and fuck just what you fancy.

And have fun y'all.
#40
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 13,684
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Kritikal
I have, and from the rates I have seen relgious people tend to be less violent than non-religious people. 
Top 10 Least Religious Countries (by percentage) - Pew Research 2020 - - https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/least-religious-countries

  1. Czech Republic - 78.4% - - https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/profiles/Czech-Republic/Crime - - MRPM 17.26
  2. North Korea - 71.3% - - https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/profiles/North-Korea/Crime - - MRPM 150.88
  3. Estonia - 60.2% - - https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/profiles/Estonia/Crime - - MRPM 52.23
  4. Japan - 60% - - https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/profiles/Japan/Crime - - MRPM 3.97
  5. Hong Kong (China) - 54.7% - - https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/profiles/Hong-Kong/Crime - - MRPM 2.4
  6. China - 51.8% - - https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/profiles/China/Crime - - MRPM 10.02
  7. South Korea - 46.6% - - https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/profiles/South-Korea/Crime - - MRPM 25.32
  8. Latvia - 45.3% - - https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/profiles/Latvia/Crime - - MRPM 31.26
  9. Netherlands - 44.3% - - https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/profiles/Netherlands/Crime - - MRPM 10.83
  10. Uruguay - 41.5% - - https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/profiles/Uruguay/Crime - - MRPM 58.82
  11.  New Zealand - 39.60% - - https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/profiles/New-Zealand/Crime - - MRPM 8.85
  12.  Mongolia - 36.50% - - https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/profiles/Mongolia/Crime - - MRPM 88.1
  13.  France - 31.90% - - https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/profiles/France/Crime - - MRPM 10.54


MRPM = MURDER RATE PER MILLION
#41
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 13,684
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Kritikal
If you are not LGBTQ+ what does it matter if someone believes in LGBTQ+ to you.
Well I am religious. But that is probably the short and easy answer. 
not even close

unless you are suggesting that laws should FAVOR your particular "religious preferences"

which is a de facto argument for THEOCRACY
#42
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 13,684
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Kritikal
For example in ancient aztec civilization sacrifice was a common problem. Humans were put to death not only by excision of the heart  followed by decapitation) but also by decapitation ( followed by heart extraction), having the throat cut, being thrown into fire  followed by heart extraction), being scratched, followed by heart extraction and flaying  being shot with arrows  followed by heart extraction), drowning. being buried alive, and being hurled down from the top of a pole or a pyramid.  bludgeon strokes, stoning, impaling, tearing out the entrails, having the roof of a house falling down on victims, and squeezing them in a net.
perhaps you're unfamiliar with Torquemada
#43
Double_R
Double_R's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 4,320
3
2
5
Double_R's avatar
Double_R
3
2
5
-->
@Kritikal
This claim seems illogical because if gender is a social construct, it follows that the only valid genders are those which have been socially constructed. 
This isn't about logical validity, it's about respecting fellow human beings as human beings and allowing them to live a dignified life.

To that end, it's not for society to tell them what genders they get to choose from, it's about them telling us about their struggles and how they identify as a result. For the rest of us, our only part is deciding whether to respect it or not.
#44
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 13,684
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Double_R
For the rest of us, our only part is deciding whether to respect it or not.
SELF-OWNERSHIP = SELF-DEFINITION
Topic's author
#45
Kritikal
Kritikal's avatar
Debates: 9
Posts: 76
0
1
7
Kritikal's avatar
Kritikal
0
1
7
-->
@3RU7AL
1. Violence rates in countris by religion
I do not think that this really proves anything because religion is individual. In terms of violence, this can vary based on many factors including the different religion that some countries may tend to adhere to. In general with all things being equal, individual people who are religious tend to be less violent.

2. What does transgenderism matter to someone who is not 
This has nothing to do with theocracy or laws, and I have not advocated for the creation of any laws on this. It is more about determining the truth, and determining what society should value. 

3. Aztec sacrifices were bad
#46
ludofl3x
ludofl3x's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,008
3
2
2
ludofl3x's avatar
ludofl3x
3
2
2
-->
@Kritikal
 I have not advocated for the creation of any laws
Should elementary school children have learning materials that demonstrate acceptance of transgender people as just people, free from stigma?
Topic's author
#47
Kritikal
Kritikal's avatar
Debates: 9
Posts: 76
0
1
7
Kritikal's avatar
Kritikal
0
1
7
-->
@Double_R
This isn't about logical validity, it's about respecting fellow human beings as human beings and allowing them to live a dignified life.

To that end, it's not for society to tell them what genders they get to choose from, it's about them telling us about their struggles and how they identify as a result. For the rest of us, our only part is deciding whether to respect it or not.
Well, in that case I choose not to respect the new identity because I belive the claim is illogical because if gender is a social construct, it follows that the only valid genders are those which have been socially constructed. 

Also, I think that according to mainstream gender ideology it is most certainly society that determines gender as I point out. I could not just say I was a women because I am a man and nobody would take me seriously becasue of societal standards.

This isn't about logical validity, it's about respecting fellow human beings as human beings and allowing them to live a dignified life.
I do not think that letting someone live in a delusion is dignified. If transgenderism is valid then there is no problem, but if it is invalid wouldn't it be cruel to encourage people to live and even mutliate themselves in pursuit of obtaining a gender that does not even exist. 
#48
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 13,684
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Kritikal
individual people who are religious tend to be less violent.
are you aware that the KKK are devout christians ?
#49
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 13,684
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Kritikal
It is more about determining the truth,
which is a pretty strange position when you're trying to defend a religion that categorically excludes all other religions
#50
ludofl3x
ludofl3x's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,008
3
2
2
ludofl3x's avatar
ludofl3x
3
2
2
-->
@Kritikal
Well, in that case I choose not to respect the new identity
That's fine! You're free to do so, and everyone else is free to call you a dick or think you're not a dick, depending on that person's view, right? And you aren't going to complain about it, because just as you're enjoying your freedom, everyone else on this topic is enjoying theirs as well. And any business you might own, people are free to tell others "The guy that owns that is / isn't a bigot, and chooses to respect / disrespect the identities of others even though it has no direct impact on his day to day life. I would / wouldn't do business there," right? Land of the free!
#51
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 13,684
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Kritikal
3. Aztec sacrifices were bad
the aztec's were very religious
Topic's author
#52
Kritikal
Kritikal's avatar
Debates: 9
Posts: 76
0
1
7
Kritikal's avatar
Kritikal
0
1
7
-->
@ludofl3x
Should elementary school children have learning materials that demonstrate acceptance of transgender people as just people, free from stigma?
Elementary school should not exist in the first place. It is beyond cruel to force little children to sit and listen to the hegemon at the front of the classroom all day. In reality, elementary school is a corrupt wing of the government to serve as an indoctrination camp. School teaches conformity above all else, so does it really matter if they are teaching transgenderism. The government has no place to weigh in on politics because this creates a circular power structure, 

Public elementary schools should not teach transgenderism, or the acceptence of transgenderism. If it is a private school they can do whatever they want, but they should not teach acceptance of transgenderism beucase this is essentially child abuse as it has largely been prooven that transgenderism spreads as a social contagion, so it is very likely that many of those children will end up mutilating themselves or getting cancer from hormones later on in life. This is not fair to children who are not wise enough to understand gender yet, and who will likely go along with anything they are told. 
Topic's author
#53
Kritikal
Kritikal's avatar
Debates: 9
Posts: 76
0
1
7
Kritikal's avatar
Kritikal
0
1
7
-->
@3RU7AL
are you aware that the KKK are devout christians ?
Yes. Have you ever heard of the social gospel movement?

It is more about determining the truth,
which is a pretty strange position when you're trying to defend a religion that categorically excludes all other religions
How so? One relgion has to be true. 

the aztec's were very religious
Yes, this was my point. It is important to look at the values/truth of different religions, and they can not all be grouped together.

#54
ludofl3x
ludofl3x's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,008
3
2
2
ludofl3x's avatar
ludofl3x
3
2
2
-->
@Kritikal
Elementary school should not exist in the first place. 
Okay, you've come totally unraveled and I don't think you're very serious about this topic. Everything else past this point is frothing at the mouth and nonsense in the real world. But this little gem...

This is not fair to children who are not wise enough to understand gender yet, and who will likely go along with anything they are told. 
Can you tell me how you came by your religion? 
#55
ludofl3x
ludofl3x's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,008
3
2
2
ludofl3x's avatar
ludofl3x
3
2
2
-->
@Kritikal
One relgion has to be true. 
Why, and how did you pick the one that was?
#56
Deb-8-a-bull
Deb-8-a-bull's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,029
3
2
3
Deb-8-a-bull's avatar
Deb-8-a-bull
3
2
3
But
But
The stats.  Collecting data. 
Imagine 100 plus years of not ummmm,  not specifically knowing whom is responsible. 

It is sooooooooo difficult not thinking of a persons "sex" when thinking / talking about about "gender" and " genders" 


▪°○•¤¤▪°○•¤▪°○•¤▪°○•¤▪°○•¤▪°○•▪¤°○•¤▪°○•▪¤○°○•▪¤°○¤▪¤○°•▪○


Whats the most "manly"  thing you can think of ?    
A manly act. 

  (  Chopping down a tree? )  is so so manly.

Topic's author
#57
Kritikal
Kritikal's avatar
Debates: 9
Posts: 76
0
1
7
Kritikal's avatar
Kritikal
0
1
7
-->
@ludofl3x
Okay, you've come totally unraveled and I don't think you're very serious about this topic. Everything else past this point is frothing at the mouth and nonsense in the real world.
Martin Luther invented our modern day education systemto train children for factories. In this day and age nothing good has come of elementary school. It teaches children to listen to authority without any question, and it deprives children of actualy learning. Furthermore, the idea that the government should be in charge of teaching children is what is actually insane. Again it is a circular power structure. 

Can you tell me how you came by your religion? 
First off, in the modern day it is clear that Christianity is the most realistic religion that adheres to the best set of values. Many other religions have been scientifically disprooven, while others hold many harmful views. Beyond this, I think that the historical evidence is very supportive of Christianity. 
#58
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 13,684
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Kritikal
the aztec's were very religious
Yes, this was my point. It is important to look at the values/truth of different religions, and they can not all be grouped together.
ok,

let's forget about "religion" for a moment

which "values/truth" do you personally subscribe to ?
#59
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 13,684
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Kritikal
 invented our modern day education systemto train children for factories. In this day and age nothing good has come of elementary school. It teaches children to listen to authority without any question,
well stated
#60
ludofl3x
ludofl3x's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,008
3
2
2
ludofl3x's avatar
ludofl3x
3
2
2
-->
@Kritikal
Can you tell me how you came by your religion? 
First off, in the modern day it is clear that Christianity is the most realistic religion that adheres to the best set of values. Many other religions have been scientifically disprooven, while others hold many harmful views. Beyond this, I think that the historical evidence is very supportive of Christianity. 
More non-Christians than Christians on earth...but that doesn't answer the question. How did you become a Christian?