Vaccine mandates

Author: TheUnderdog

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#1
TheUnderdog
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In general, I oppose vaccine mandates, but I think the following groups of people should be subject to a vaccine mandate:

1)Soliders.  Soliders have to be in good health.  I would equate this with a mandate to do 50 push-ups a day.

2)Children; it is precedent and children don’t have agency.

3)Anyone on government health insurance.  If the government is paying for your health insurance, they have a vested interest in keeping you healthy.  This means I would force anyone on government health insurance to be vaccinated, work out, I’d mandate veganism for them because it’s healthier.  If they don’t like these restrictions, then get a job mooncher.  If you are going to life off government health insurance, you need to be as cheap as possible to insure.  If you don’t like these restrictions, get a job!

Other than that, you should be allowed to opt out of a vaccine, but it’s not recommended.  I also would ban companies from having a vaccine mandate (just like I wouldn’t let them fire you for being LGBT).  But they would be allowed to charge more for health insurance premiums if your unvaccinated or sexually active as these behaviors are costly for health insurance companies.

None of my exceptions apply if you have natural immunity.  If you have natural immunity, you don’t need to be vaxxed, but I recommend it.
#2
3RU7AL
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@TheUnderdog
But they would be allowed to charge more for health insurance premiums if your unvaccinated or sexually active as these behaviors are costly for health insurance companies.
so, ok, no medical and or personal privacy then
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#3
TheUnderdog
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@3RU7AL
If your a bigger health risk, you should pay more for health insurance.  Don’t be a fiscal burden on others.  I’m sick of my healthcare bills subsidizing the unvaccinated, the sexually active, and smokers.  I don’t like subsidizing others.
#4
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@TheUnderdog
I don’t like subsidizing others
then don't buy health insurance

that's literally the only thing health insurance does

takes money FROM healthy people and gives it to SICK people

takes money FROM responsible drivers and gives it to IRRESPONSIBLE drivers

takes money FROM responsible property owners and gives it to IRRESPONSIBLE property owners

that's simply the definition of INSURANCE
#5
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@TheUnderdog
I don’t like subsidizing others
perhaps you're unfamiliar with the tax system
#6
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@3RU7AL
Responsible people have accidents and bad luck.

You have a very immature approach to life.

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@TheUnderdog
If the government is paying for your health insurance  I’d mandate veganism.
That would be way too expensive. 

2)Children; it is precedent and children don’t have agency.
Children absolutely have agency. They have a functioning cortex, and they are human. 18 is a completely arbitrary number, why should the government be able to force the vaccine on a 16 or 17 year old, but not a 20 year old?

If a child is so young and stupid that they can not make desicions for themselves, we should just let those in the government who are so old that they are also so stupid they cannot make decisions for themselves, make desiscions for the children? It is not the role of the government to parent a child, it is the role of parents.
 
1)Soliders.  Soliders have to be in good health.  I would equate this with a mandate to do 50 push-ups a day.
This seems unfair to those who are already serving the country, and realisticly this would just drive down military participation. I understand the argument if it is a smallpox vaccine in war time, but if it is a flu shot in peace time it seems like a very bad idea.
#8
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Responsible people have accidents and bad luck.
takes money FROM lucky people and gives it to unlucky people
#9
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Wait, you guys didn't already all get vaccines?
#10
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@TheUnderdog
I’m sick of my healthcare bills subsidizing the unvaccinated,
Children are and were never a health risk from covid. You are today funneling much more of your tax money for unneeded vaccines than you could possibly hope to spend on sick kids.

Military are not at risk either being young and THIN. Or at least thin enough to run a 12 minute mile and a half.
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@TheUnderdog
Also, you probably missed my other thread, but insurance companies recorded massive losses 2021-2022 from NON COVID deaths due to the failing economy and the malaise of a mandated lockdown ruining livelihoods. People need a reason to live and take care of themselves.

Where is the mandate to recoup those losses? It sure as hell has nothing to do with vaccines.

#12
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@Greyparrot
You are today funneling much more of your tax money for unneeded vaccines than you could possibly hope to spend on sick kids.
bingo
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#13
TheUnderdog
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@Greyparrot
I don’t support lockdowns.
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#14
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@Kritikal
That would be way too expensive. 
Rice and beans are cheap.

we should just let those in the government who are so old that they are also so stupid they cannot make decisions for themselves, make desiscions for the children?
Old people can usually make their own decisions unless they have alztimers.

I understand the argument if it is a smallpox vaccine in war time, but if it is a flu shot in peace time it seems like a very bad idea.
What’s the difference?  Soliders being vaccinated against every disease that has a vaccination is precedent.
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@3RU7AL
The reason why I plan on getting insurance is something unforeseen could happen to me where I would need help.  People that are bigger risks should pay more for insurance.
#16
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@TheUnderdog
People that are bigger risks should pay more for insurance.
and they do
#17
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@TheUnderdog
I don’t like subsidizing others
all insurance "subsidizes others"
#18
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@TheUnderdog
 People that are bigger risks should pay more for insurance.
unfortunately, the state doesn't allow for a large market of insurance carriers that can cater to low risk groups.
#19
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@TheUnderdog
People that are bigger risks should pay more for insurance.
except for beach-front-property owners
#20
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@3RU7AL
except for beach-front-property owners
like Al-Gore?
#21
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@Greyparrot
The OP doesn't specify Covid vaccines. Are you opposed to all vaccine requirements for public schools, the military, or those of private businesses? 
#22
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@TheUnderdog
Rice and beans are cheap.
Then it is unhealthier.
Old people can usually make their own decisions unless they have alztimers.
Many in the government do,  but my point was more just that we should not trust the government to make good choices. 
What’s the difference?  Soliders being vaccinated against every disease that has a vaccination is precedent.
Some are more controversial, and also protect against less serious diseases. We do not want to discourage people from participation in the military.

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@Danielle
I'd like to think reasonable exceptions could be made.
#24
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@Greyparrot
What kind of reasonable exception? 
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#25
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@3RU7AL
Including them.  If your more likely to get flooded, you should pay more for flood insurance.
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#26
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@Kritikal
Then it is unhealthier.
Rice and beans are healthier than beef burgers.

but my point was more just that we should not trust the government to make good choices.
People that can pay their own way shouldn’t be told what to do by the government unless they intend to harm others.  But people that cannot pay their own way need to be regulated to make their lives cheaper to fund.  You can opt out of regulations if you agree to not get a government subsidy for your existence.

We do not want to discourage people from participation in the military.
Your not going to discourage a lot of people from joining the military.  The military obeys orders and Soliders aren’t ideologue.  They do what they are told.  It’s like saying we aren’t going to mandate push-ups for the military because it would discourage people from joining.
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@TheUnderdog
Rice and beans are healthier than beef burgers.
Disagree, protein deficiency is very serious. 

People that can pay their own way shouldn’t be told what to do by the government unless they intend to harm others.  But people that cannot pay their own way need to be regulated to make their lives cheaper to fund.  You can opt out of regulations if you agree to not get a government subsidy for your existence.
This was about children, not about freeloaders.

Your not going to discourage a lot of people from joining the military.  The military obeys orders and Soliders aren’t ideologue.  They do what they are told.  It’s like saying we aren’t going to mandate push-ups for the military because it would discourage people from joining.
People will not join the military if they think they are going to be injected with a drug they have moral objection too. I think that around 5% of the Marine Corps refused the Covid shot, but this does not even take into account those who decided not to join. It is a lot easier to simply not join and go and do something else than to quit your job.

#28
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Vaccine mandates are inherently immoral, unethical governmental overreach.  There is no justification for them.  There is no excuse.  If you support them, you are wrong. 
#29
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@Danielle
That the government should have to prove with a preponderance of evidence why bodily autonomy must be violated. That has nowhere near been established with vaccinating children for the flu.
#30
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@coal
Laws against abortion are inherently immoral, unethical governmental overreach.  There is no justification for them.  There is no excuse.  If you support them, you are wrong.