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@ebuc
it is impossible to imagine nothingFalse we can conceptualize truly non-occupied space.
"empty space" != "nothing"
Can something come from nothing?
Posts
Total:
62
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@3RU7AL
"empty space" != "nothing"
I'm missing your point here 3Ru? My comment stands as stated. Ive conceptualized it and had it in my Cosmic Trinary Set/Outline/List for 10 - 20 years. Old news
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@ebuc
"infinite unoccupied space" != "nothing"
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@FLRW
Yes, on this debate site you can win a debate when there are 0 arguments against yours by a full forfeit. Isn't that something from nothing?
only if you didn't type anything
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@3RU7AL
"infinite unoccupied space" != "nothing"
True if we call a identify the thing as occupied space, but again that is not directly related to my former reply to you, pointing out that you comment is false. See below, again
3Ru......it is impossible to imagine nothing
False eRu, we can conceptualize truly non-occupied space and Ive done that with my Cosmic Trinary Set/Outline/List for 15 - 20 years
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@DebateAllDaTings
Nothing and something are not opposites.
In terms of human perception, nothing is a concept and something is a tangible reality.
I assume that what you are questioning, is where does matter come from.
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@ebuc
3Ru......it is impossible to imagine nothingFalse eRu, we can conceptualize truly non-occupied space and Ive done that with my Cosmic Trinary Set/Outline/List for 15 - 20 years
"my Cosmic Trinary Set/Outline/List" != "nothing"
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@3RU7AL
"infinite unoccupied space"
OP has defined 'nothing' as the complete lack of existence, so I believe that would exclude space.
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@3RU7AL
"my Cosmic Trinary Set/Outline/List" != "nothing"
Huh? 3Ru, Why do you have an exclamation point after phases?
Your above is false. Are you stuck in AI loop of false narrative?
Three primary kinds of existence as follows.
1} Meta-space: complements all the following set of Space
...1a} absolute truth,
.....1b} relative truth,
.....1c} false narrative
---conceptual line of demarcation------
2} Space:
...1} macro infinite non-occupied space, that embraces, the following,
....note: is shaped { Meta-space patterning } by perimeter of the following set.....
...2} finite occupied space Universe/God, ----composed of ultra-high number of dynamic, overlapping, interfering, spiral and dipolar, invaginated tor.......space(>*<)(>*<)space...
............2a} physical reality{ Spirit-2 } aka observed { quantised } time and associated with sine-wave/\/\/ patterning composed of fermioninc matter and bosonic forces ad a new hybrid set of those two,
............2b} meta-physical ultra-micro Gravity { spirit-3 geodesics }, ......gravitonic particle composed of 14 nodal events and 91 total lines-of-relationship in static Euclidean concept as truncated on two ends ---to define a tube--- traingular based, di-pyramid......,
.............2c} meta-physical, ultra-micro Dark Energy{ spirit-4 geodesics } ....darkonic particle composed of 14 nodal events and 91 total lines-of-relationship an represented in static Euclidean concept as a truncated on two ends, ---to define a tube--- triangular based, di-pyramid.
This following gives view of one-half of a Euclidean, triangular based and truncated dipyramid LINK
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@SkepticalOne
OP has defined 'nothing' as the complete lack of existence, so I believe that would exclude space.
Two primary kinds of Space and other is a false narrative.
2} Space:
...1} macro infinite non-occupied space, that embraces, the following,
....note: is shaped { Meta-space patterning } by perimeter of the following set.....
...2} finite occupied space Universe/God, ----composed of ultra-high number of dynamic,
overlapping, interfering, spiral and dipolar, invaginated
tor.......space(>*<)(>*<)space...
............2a}
physical reality{ Spirit-2 } aka observed { quantised } time and
associated with sine-wave/\/\/ patterning composed of fermioninc matter
and bosonic forces ad a new hybrid set of those two,
............2b}
meta-physical ultra-micro Gravity { spirit-3 geodesics },
......gravitonic particle composed of 14 nodal events and 91 total
lines-of-relationship in static Euclidean concept as truncated on two
ends ---to define a tube--- traingular based, di-pyramid......,
.............2c}
meta-physical, ultra-micro Dark Energy{ spirit-4 geodesics }
....darkonic particle composed of 14 nodal events and 91 total
lines-of-relationship an represented in static Euclidean concept as a
truncated on two ends, ---to define a tube--- triangular based,
di-pyramid.
This following gives view of one-half of a Euclidean, triangular based and truncated dipyramid LINK
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@ebuc
The inequality operator (!=) checks whether its two operands are not equal, returning a Boolean result.
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@DebateAllDaTings
In Hegel's Logic, nothingness is really the same concept as pure being - both taking the form of an absolute lack of determination. Each "vanishes into its opposite" and this dialectic of being and nothingness resolves into their truth as becoming.
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@3RU7AL
The inequality operator (!=) checks whether its two operands are not equal, returning a Boolean result.
So I have no idea how that relates to my comments or others every time you use it i.e. it leaves me confused as to what exactly your point is and specifically to my comments.
And you never elaborate more with clarity so that I understand what your exact points is. I spend lot of time and effort use correct words to offer most refined truth explanations of what i mean to express to others.
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@ebuc
Both of your definitions use the term you're supposed to be defining (and aren't relevant to the OP's definition).
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@ebuc
"my Cosmic Trinary Set/Outline/List" != "nothing"
"my Cosmic Trinary Set/Outline/List" [DOES NOT EQUAL] "nothing"
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@SkepticalOne
Both of your definitions use the term you're supposed to be defining (and aren't relevant to the OP's definition).
Sorry Sko I have no idea what your trying to specifically convey to me. Need much more clarity and specifics.
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@3RU7AL
"my Cosmic Trinary Set/Outline/List" [DOES NOT EQUAL] "nothing"
Huh? I never said Cosmic Trinary set = nothing. Your creating a false narrative 3Ru. I thought better of you than this nonsense.
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@rbelivb
Hegel's Logic.
Good job Hegel wasn't trying to be clever.
Zedku Logic for rbelivb.
We perceive or not.
There is or there isn't.
There wasn't and there was,
Maybe.
Something can't come from nothing because nothing isn't able to do anything or to start something.
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@simplybeourselves
Something can't come from nothing because nothing isn't able to do anything or to start something.
well stated
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@ebuc
Epistemology is what the boards of our house are made of. What is outside our house is noumenon.
Metaphysics is what we stuff into the cracks between the boards in order to keep warm.
Quanta (science) is a sub-category of Qualia (metaphysics).
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@simplybeourselves
The idea is that the something starts itself, not that nothing is an agent that can do something.
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@DebateAllDaTings
The idea is that the something starts itself, not that nothing is an agent that can do something.
how can something cause itself ?
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@3RU7AL
Quanta (science) is a sub-category of Qualia (metaphysics).
False 3Ru, Ive made clear and you dont seem to grasp that they are complementaries, not one being a subcatargory of the other.
You need to follow more logical common sense about the Cosmic Trinary Set. They are each a primary set of their on their own, not subcatagorial sets of one or the other. Understand, 3Ru?
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@3RU7AL
how can something cause itself ?
Ex how did biologic life begin? Here is what we know, via observation, and that is, that all biologic life comes from previously existing biologic life.
Eternally existent and finite, occupied space Universe. That is clear as a bell and no one every will have any logical common sense much evidence of any other scenario.
Gravity and Dark Energy are Meta-physical, because physical reality is associated with sine-wave patterning we find with bosons and fermions, that we quantize and quantify. Simple
We do not quantise nor quantify ultra-micro Gravity or ultra-micro Dark Energy, ergo, they both are Meta-physical, and that is the correct terminology, for those who follow logical common sense.
Same goes mind/intellect/concepts/ego, whereas I use to call those meta-physical, then I realized the more refined ergo more accurate terminology is Meta-space. Again this is simple if we can drop our preconditioned ways of thinking, and start anew.
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@DebateAllDaTings
Whether something can come from nothing depends entirely on your definition of nothing.
If you are defining nothing as “non-existence” or some concept derived from this idea (“nothing is what rocks dream about”), then of course nothing could come from it, because it’s being defined that way. So to claim nothing can come from it is just a tautology.
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@Double_R
The question is very simple.
Can something come from nothing.
And the range of over complicated and misleading responses, clearly indicates that no one has a clue.
Though misleading over complicated responses and cluelessness is what one would have expected.
There was either:
Nothing and then Something.
Or:
Always Something.
Neither makes perfect sense.
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@zedvictor4
And the range of over complicated and misleading responses, clearly indicates that no one has a clue.
False Zed. My friend told me something, i.e. gave me a piece of information, a concept a scenrio ergo 'something ' in that circumstance is Meta-space mid/intellect/concept. A piece of conceptual information can be missing from a mystery. Yes, Meta-space information most often complements and occupied space event or set of events, thereof.
Clue 1} occupied space is all humans observe,
There was either: Nothing and then Something.
Seemingly do, untill we use logical common sense based on our observations and this is what the scientists of late 1800's did ergo they announced the 1st law thermodynamic conservation. Naught is created nor destroyed, only transformed one phase of ---occupied space--- existence to another.
The only event that throws peoples awry is the Big Bang. However we know so much more now than we did when Big Bang was first labeled by Fred Hoyle.
Or: Always Something.
Then along came Roger Penrose in 1965 with his nobel winning ---in 2018-- one page paper proving Einsteins.ust come close together but rather become null and void. So then along comes S Hawking along with Penrose and they show how our finite, occupied space Universe, appears from a singularity { null and void set of photonic trajectories }.
Therein lies an answer. If our finite, occupied space Universe, came from a null and void set set of photon geodesic trajectories of one, or many black hole singularities come from. They are phase transformations of the one finite, occupied space Universe.
Neither makes perfect sense.
I agree, that, null geodesic trajectories of photons aka a singularity, do not make sense as that is occupied space becoming truly non-occupied space, if, the laws of generality are followed to where they seemingly lead, ---as Penrose confirmed/validated in 65---, however, if the law of GR do not apply at some scale of existence within said black hole{s}, then, we would seemingly be missing a piece of the Meta-space mystery of how, occupied space, cannot be created nor destroyed, as these ultra-micro scales of existence.
Ive offered the answer occasionally tho few seem to grasp or care, since I offer no proofs for my conjectures, scenarios etc.
The simple answer is that a finite Universe that is full of photons, or via heat death becomes one very large and very flat singular photon dissippates into ultra-micro, Gravitational geodesic, positively curved occupied space ( ) and Dark Energy geodesic, negatively curved occupied space )( ergo
.....space(>OT<)(>OT<)space.... where space is truly non-occupied space, and,
.....space(>OT<)(>OT<)space.... where ( )( ) Gravity and Dark Energy are surface set of nodal events, and,
.....space(>OT<)(>OT<)space.... >< is dipolar invaginations from, the outer and inner set of di-polar opposites ---in 3D tori-- as surface nodal events of Gravity and Dark Energy, and,
.....space(>OT<)(>OT<)space.... OT is the resultant sine-wave of observerd { quanta } time { OT } residing inside the toroidal tube or myriad set thereof, that compose finite, occupied space Universee
Photons are associated two sine-waves /\/\/ co-operating at 90 degrees [ precessionally } to each other. Electric /\/\/and magnetic ------ ergo /--\--/--\--/ is a rough visual using text charactors and I associate all sine-waves with physical reality ergo observed { quantised } time { OT }.
Ive presented the 2D visual lattice of the 3D tori, showing how the sine-wave of physical reality { OT } can become very flat { ultra-long wave frequency } move toward either Gravitional space or Dark Energy space to merge with it and become the outer and inner, that are actually connected graviton-darkon ( )( ) and not every truly isolated from each other i.e. the are likened to that age old dipolar opposites of good and bad, light and dark etc.
Here is the asymmetrical { Hexa-god } visual Ive developed, over the years and it began in symmetrical pattern, --at bottom of page-- where it was not inside-outed as this first 2D lattice set is.
......1.............................5p...........7p............................11p.............13p........................17p....G{ outer }....................
0~~~~~~~~~~~3p~~~~~~~~6~~~~~~~~~~~~~9~~~~~~~~12~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~15~~~~~~~Observable Flat Time inside
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-...note here above we see flat { long wave } sine-wave approaching Gravity set of nodal events....
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.................2p............4................................8...........10..................................14.......16............DE { inner }..............
Below is the Hexa-god equanimity-of-balance ---via dipolar invagination--- version to reference the diffferrence above so we see normal
sine-wave. I actually see three possible ways this scenario may evolve :
1} sine-wave flattens as longest photonic heat death wave of Univere and moves toward Gravity,
2} sine-wave flattens as longest photonic heat death wave of Universe and moves toward Dark Energy,
3} the sine-wave peaks { amplitude } split so half dissipates into Gravity and other half dissipataes into Dark Energy.
......1.............................5p...........7p............................11p.............13p........................17p....G{ outer }....................
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0..............................................6.................................................12..........................................Observable Time inside
---Bucky Fullers-------abstract great circle----central spine inside center the 3D torodial tube---------------
........................3p............................................9.................................................15..............Observable Time inside
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.................2p............4................................8...........10..................................14.......16............DE { inner }..............
And here is the orginal symmetrical pattern below closely ressembled Arthur Youngs Reflexive Universe { Geometry of Meaning } LINK ideas which also stemmed from four lines/levels, and what differrentiated Arthurs approach from mined, was I was searching for patteing of prime numbers, and I began with non-counting number zero, and Arthur began with numeber one.
o............................6.......................................12.........................................18...etc
.....1.................5p........7p.....................11p..........13p........................17p................
........2p.......4.......................8........10............................14..........16.........................
.............3p...............................9...........................................15................................
So Arthur, Fuller and myself all use a cosmic fourness { operating system }.
Fullers 4 hexagonal planes define the Vector Equlibrium as Operating System of Unvierse and y 2D lattice of a 3D torus, has four overlapping hexagons, that define the minimal graviton-darkon quantum of space - time. 14 nodal events ergo 91 lines of relationship as a truncated on two ends, di-pyramid.
So we see five nucleated nodal events 0, 3, 6, 9, 12 inside-the-tube as bases of reality. These five may or may not remain at heat death end of Universe. I dunno.
Axiomatically reality has to have an immovable, irrevokable entity at its core.
Atheists are drinking the kool-aid if they think reality has no entity or machine at its core, whether we call it a god or not.
Axiomatically reality has to have an immovable, irrevokable entity at its core.
please reveal your personally preferred definition of "entity"