if you're afraid of the "crazy conspiracy nutjobs"
voting for CORPORATE OLIGARCH DEMOCRATS
instead of CORPORATE OLIGARCH REPUBLICANS
will not somehow magically make all the "crazy conspiracy nutjobs" disappear
Correct - but it will, of course, prevent them from taking over. Even if I accept the premise - the choice is not oligarchy, vs oligarchy - it’s “oligarchy” vs “oligarchy that may well deteriorate into authoritarianism”.
That aside - I will absolutely contest the idea that both sides are equal even in terms of various support for oligarchy - they aren’t.
The oligarchy is the result of decades of market capitalism in which various companies, individuals and investment groups have ended up “winning” capitalism, centralizing vast amounts of economic power; that they use to leverage into political power to maintain that economic power. Both sides professes to be against this corrupt elite - but one side is overwhelmingly and comprehensively worse. Their name starts with R and ends with Epublicans.
Let’s not kid ourself : the policy and the individual voters on the right - broadly support an approach that if we should take away all the restrictions on the oligarchy, allow them to keep more of their money, disempower the only legal institutions that exist which could potentially keep them in check - disempower normal individuals ability to push back collectively - then the oligarchy will magically disappear because plucky start ups that will now - somehow - have an easier time competing against multi-billion dollar investment conglomerates once those conglomerates have reduced oversight, more money, fewer restrictions, less transparency, and more control over the individuals in their work force - and totally won’t simply produce other oligarchies. You have idiots spending all their time railing upon the corrupt elite in abstract terms - and yet support top to bottom every conceivable policy that empowers them.
And worse - if anyone dares to suggest anything that actually harms the interests of that elite - wealth tax, corporate tax, more oversight, patent reform, breaking up too successful companies, empowering unions to bolster individuals economic power, reduce military spending. The right, and all their supporters - all suddenly bat for that elite - due to the collective dependence upon them. “We must do something about the elites - except anything - we can’t do anything against the elites - that would be radical socialism - and would harm the economy”
I mentioned this to a Trump supporter railing on Bill Gates and George Soros, and how much power they have, and how they’re destroying America - I suggested taxing their wealth to reduce their power. With a click of my fingers - this Trump supporter became the staunchest supporter of their own bogeyman’s best interests.
All of this driven by the very misinformation machines we’ve been talking about.
Compare and contrast to democrats. They are the only ones making any practical moves to reduce the power of these oligarchies. They are the only ones with policies aimed at reducing the power of these oligarchies. They are the only ones specifically trying to address social and environmental issues brought about by these oligarchies.
You are absolutely right - you have democrats who refuse to kill tax loop holes for the mega wealthy; or ones who prevent the death of coal because of business interests, you assuredly have donations from big corporations - and many rich democrats with limited blindness in their trusts and have to vote against their interests. But everything from their enacted policy, internal party factions, to their donation structure, supporters and attempted policy are all supremely more hostile to the actual economic elite than the republicans could ever be.
Even look at the actions they took. Reducing job killing regulations, and increasing competition by reducing regulations - which take the form of how many toxic chemicals coal companies can dump into rivers - or reducing enforcement of consumer protections - or lowering emissions standards - or enacting massive tax cuts that companies can use for share buybacks. That sure shows the elites!
So in that case: no it’s not choosing between oligarchy and oligarchy - it’s a choice between “explicitly support for empowering the oligarchy coupled with the risk of authoritarian government you cannot vote away” and “openly hostile, but partially beholden to the interests of the oligarchy, pulled in the opposite direction by the base - and who frequently pushes, and often pass laws and changes antithetical to the power of that oligarchies.”
These two choices are clearly and absolutely not the same.
the only reason you fear the "republican establishment" more than you fear the "democrat establishment" is because the democrats are doing everything in their power to make you think that every single republican is an alex jones fanatic
The reason I am concerned about the “Republican establishment” more than I fear the “democrat Establishment” - is because of the things they do - many explicitly listed and described in the many detailed posts I’ve made above. The democrats are not becoming functionally fascist, are not overtly corporatist in either words or actions.
I am concerned about them because of the media and supporter ecosystem of misinformation that they have cultivated - that is tending more and more authoritarian. I don’t need the democrats to tell me the broad level of support in the Republican Party of election deniers, or outright crazies - I can gauge this by the things their candidates say, and the things their candidates do.
If you feel that my reasoning is because of what I’m being told by the democrat - then you absolutely and clearly have not understood a single word of any of my posts in this thread.
RCV FTW
This is exactly the problem - we shouldn’t chose between democrats or republicans - we need RCV. Your calling for RCV, and trashing parties as equivalent - but when you look at RCV - they’re not.
Where in the USA is RCV implemented? Maine: passed by democrats. It was used in multiple states in the democratic primary - and republicans are now trying to veto it.
Alaska recently passed RCV - state Republican leadership ran against it - and the organization that campaigned for it, contained a substantial number of democrats.
HR-1, which has provisions for supporting RCV, and fair representation acts all introduced by democrats and comprehensively opposed by republicans.
On a state by state levels - the states that have passed RCV at municipal levels are predominantly blue states - and most of the state level legislating supporting it - coming from democrats.
https://www.fairvote.org/2021_state_legislation_advancing_ranked_choice_voting. And, unsurprisingly - the people actively opposing it are, you guessed it, republicans:
https://www.commondreams.org/news/2022/04/29/despite-broad-popularity-gop-moves-ban-ranked-choice-voting-local-levelThis is likely being driven by the fact that 73% of democrats support it (
https://publicconsultation.org) as opposed to 49% of republicans. On the left - I am one of them.
So even on these grounds - this should be a clear cut reason that even if all the other stuff above is not true - if RCV is your main goal - then you should absolutely support democrats - they’re the ones that are primarily pushing it.
This is absolutely not an issue of me having binary thinking - one side is objectively better - one side is objectively worse in almost every respect, and almost every way - as it is on almost every topic and almost every subject.
If your speculating that the democrats have altering my perception of republicans (though this is not the case), let me also speculate - that you believe both sides are as bad as each other, solely because of the constant and repeated whataboutism and misinformation from the right, how they’ll right acts and reacts with equal disdain and equal fervour to everything the democrats do; and you are drawing blame based on how loudly both sides shout - rather than the details of what they’re shouting about.
