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@BrotherD.Thomas
the supreme fraud and author of foolishness on this site is Brother D Thomas. no one compares to you. Even harikrish runs rings around you. And he doesn't have a compass.
The case for the Historical Jesus
Posts
Total:
618
And BAMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM.
My morals just kicked in.
Hey guys.
Because we dont " tell on " people in this forum , we need to
If you see someone being continuously " attacked " by , for example, The brother D . With very little given back , you have to rise up and insult the brother D a few times , in hope to get him to abuse you for a while. Take some ofthe heat.
My morals just kicked in.
Hey guys.
Because we dont " tell on " people in this forum , we need to
If you see someone being continuously " attacked " by , for example, The brother D . With very little given back , you have to rise up and insult the brother D a few times , in hope to get him to abuse you for a while. Take some ofthe heat.
▪○°•▪○°•▪○°• Take note people. ▪○°•▪○°•▪○°•▪○°•
It is difficult seeing / thinking a person would talk harshly OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN .
ESPECIALLY TO A FEMALE.
I'll jump in for Shila soon.
This is something we in the forum should of done for trade buttttt.
Hopefully the brother can shift gears and give us a nice happy fun religious post.
Or give me shit.
So ummmmm , Take note.
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@Shila
Nope, banning just creates resentment.
Ideology will evolve slowly.
Though what the masses are conditioned to think and do is perhaps somewhat irrelevant in terms of evolutionary progress.
Nonetheless it would be foolish to suggest that the greater society is not essential to that progress.
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@Shila
I hate to see a Reverend reduced to a bible fool.Well he/she doesn't believe s/he is, does s/he?Maybe he is not very articulate.Are you kidding me!!? Have you not read his ever-increasing list qualifications and accolades? He was taught and trained by the best in the business. He translates ancient languages into English. He has been taught to memorise the bible from a very early age, he charges universities to tutor their students and he is a criminal lawyer!! And you say he is not articulate!!? Behave yourself shila.😂If you and pussycat found him very articulate , why are you two treating him like he is a bible fool?
Ok, you have given me good and genuine reason, so;
I cannot speak for the Brother but for me it was not only the uncalled for insults such as;
"you are the
serpent, satan, whatever - he is the accuser and you follow after
him. you are his disciple. From my point of view - he is slime. You
know like the stuff we find after a snail has passed by. creepy.
disgusting. Ugly. \ #24 Tradesecret
"After
all, you are the swine and the dogs that trample over the
pearls. your comments to me are like water of a ducks back". #36 "Words
are words. And that is all they are". #45 Tradesecret:
Are these the words of a charitable, caring and benevolent christian Chaplain or a Pastor. A pastor of a church with over 300 people#67 and that was "chosen by god". And he studied Shakespeare too! It is also because for all his acclaimed theological education and some 40+ years of bible study and " memorising the bible backwards and forwards", he really is actually bible ignorant as I have proven him to be many times.
Why were the Jewish elders upset if Jesus was their promised messiah?
Did they believe Jesus to be the promised Messiah? And they were "upset" for many reasons.
Those
Pastors and Priest of old were raking it in. The temple mount and the
temple compound was a hive of commerce, with money changers making a
killing on the exchange rate as pilgrims could only buy with money
acceptable to the temple authorities and traders taking advantage of
a bad situation (and good one’s) by selling only“perfect doves”
and other "unblemished" live stock to the gullible for offerings to god.
There
was also the “ransom” straight to the temple priests of the
sanctuary, as god told Moses “all of them shall give a ransom for
their lives to the Lord so that no plague may come upon them”. And " All the money of the dedicated gifts that are brought into the house of the LORD—each man’s census money, each man’s assessment money—and all the money that a man purposes in his heart to bring into the house of the LORD", which I am sure you understand was "guilt money" and each person registered in the census had to pay a half shekel to be used for cultic atonement made to Yahweh.
And nothing has changed has it? God is angry pay up. You have upset the lord pay up. You didn't donate enough money to god so out you go to live among the "dead". It is the biggest legal con known to man. Is it any wonder that the Reverend Tradesecret is both a pastor and a lawyer. Small print you see shila. Its all in the small print, my friend.
I won't go on only to say, is
it any wonder those puppet priests didn’t want to give over this
lucrative business to Jesus the interloper.
Then of course as I have already mentioned, there was the genuine fear of Jesus upsetting the status quo. Such as mentioned here;
" If we allow him to go on in this way, everyone will believe in him, and the Romans will come and take away our sanctuary and scatter our nation.” Which they did in the end.
"Most
atheists I know are impractical and airhead. Many end up in
prison, for theft and sex related crimes, mostly kiddie crime. Many
commit suicide and or are on drugs and alcohol. Not too many get
married, or if they do - are on to their 4 or 4th marriage. Many are
gay or lesbian. #33"
I don't like the idea of me or my family being lumped in with "most" atheist that he has met.
I hope I have answered your questions satisfactorily.
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@BrotherD.Thomas
Tradesecret learned the hard way, https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/8091/post-links/351103
Hello Brother, it seems your memory is fading.
The only one around here who seems to have learned the hard way is you.
Not once have you succeeded in any of you dumb attempts at foiling the God of the Bible. I expect you don't even know what the word foil means.
Ha.
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@Deb-8-a-bull
It is difficult seeing / thinking a person would talk harshly OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN .ESPECIALLY TO A FEMALE.
It is, Deb. How about being called the slime of satan and slug? What about being labeled "a drug addled kiddie fiddler"? Would you consider those harsh? And from a Pastor too!
This is something we in the forum should of done for trade buttttt.
Why? Nothing seems to upset the Reverend. Look here, his own words>> "your comments to me are like water of a ducks back". #36 "Words are words. And that is all they are". #45 Tradesecret:
We are talking about a man that has been around a bit, a man of the world. Do you not remember him telling you personally that he had "traveled
the world, met lots of so called spiritual people in Bangladesh,
Indonesia, Tibet, Mexico and Lesotho". #50
I'll leave you to read for yourself his patronising tones towards you. HERE>> "cute and backward"
I am sure the Reverend tradesecret can handle himself just dandy, Deb.
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@Stephen
Nice thought, but is that truth?
Simple answer without getting into the philosophical nature
of "truth." Faith doesn’t require truth but it can be based on truth.
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@Deb-8-a-bull
And BAMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM.My morals just kicked in.Hey guys.Because we dont " tell on " people in this forum , we need toIf you see someone being continuously " attacked " by , for example, The brother D . With very little given back , you have to rise up and insult the brother D a few times , in hope to get him to abuse you for a while. Take some ofthe heat.▪○°•▪○°•▪○°• Take note people. ▪○°•▪○°•▪○°•▪○°•It is difficult seeing / thinking a person would talk harshly OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN .ESPECIALLY TO A FEMALE.I'll jump in for Shila soon.This is something we in the forum should of done for trade buttttt.Hopefully the brother can shift gears and give us a nice happy fun religious post.Or give me shit.So ummmmm , Take note.
Shila created the case for the Historical Jesus so we could all agree that Jesus existed as a starting point and from there explore what Jesus said and how he was misunderstood. Was it all lost in translation or the scholars missed the Jewish roots of Jesus' divinity?
Please resolve your issue with BrotherD.Thomas so we can all get back to our discussion on the case of the Historical Jesus.
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@zedvictor4
-> @ShilaNope, banning just creates resentment.Ideology will evolve slowly.Though what the masses are conditioned to think and do is perhaps somewhat irrelevant in terms of evolutionary progress.Nonetheless it would be foolish to suggest that the greater society is not essential to that progress.
Shila has taken an all inclusive approach in this tread to build the case for the Historical Jesus. We will get into the evolutionary progress Jesus made from his entrance to his departure. But we first have to conduct ourselves worthy of such a discussion.
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@Shila
But we first have to conduct ourselves worthy of such a discussion.
Well, you blew that out of the water when you deceitfully tried to put words into my mouth and the mouth of Josephus.#32 . I knew then you wouldn't stay true to the topic.
And if you didn't want is thread, your thread, to veer so far off course you should have stuck with the theme of the thread instead of going out of your way to hold a completely different conversation about the Brother and about someone that is quite capable of speaking for himself. You "reap what you sow", and all that.
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@Stephen
If you and pussycat found him very articulate , why are you two treating him like he is a bible fool?Ok, you have given me good and genuine reason, so;I cannot speak for the Brother but for me it was not only the uncalled for insults such as;"you are the serpent, satan, whatever - he is the accuser and you follow after him. you are his disciple. From my point of view - he is slime. You know like the stuff we find after a snail has passed by. creepy. disgusting. Ugly. \ #24 Tradesecret"After all, you are the swine and the dogs that trample over the pearls. your comments to me are like water of a ducks back". #36 "Words are words. And that is all they are". #45 Tradesecret:Are these the words of a charitable, caring and benevolent christian Chaplain or a Pastor. A pastor of a church with over 300 people#67 and that was "chosen by god". And he studied Shakespeare too! It is also because for all his acclaimed theological education and some 40+ years of bible study and " memorising the bible backwards and forwards", he really is actually bible ignorant as I have proven him to be many times.
That is disgusting and disgraceful coming from Reverend Tradesecret. Maybe we should explore his depravity more and credit him less with his pastoral shortcomings. He isn’t much different from the people that wanted Jesus crucified because he too seeks to see Jesus’s legacy destroyed.
Why were the Jewish elders upset if Jesus was their promised messiah?Did they believe Jesus to be the promised Messiah? And they were "upset" for many reasons.Those Pastors and Priest of old were raking it in. The temple mount and the temple compound was a hive of commerce, with money changers making a killing on the exchange rate as pilgrims could only buy with money acceptable to the temple authorities and traders taking advantage of a bad situation (and good one’s) by selling only“perfect doves” and other "unblemished" live stock to the gullible for offerings to god.There was also the “ransom” straight to the temple priests of the sanctuary, as god told Moses “all of them shall give a ransom for their lives to the Lord so that no plague may come upon them”. And " All the money of the dedicated gifts that are brought into the house of the LORD—each man’s census money, each man’s assessment money—and all the money that a man purposes in his heart to bring into the house of the LORD", which I am sure you understand was "guilt money" and each person registered in the census had to pay a half shekel to be used for cultic atonement made to Yahweh.And nothing has changed has it? God is angry pay up. You have upset the lord pay up. You didn't donate enough money to god so out you go to live among the "dead". It is the biggest legal con known to man. Is it any wonder that the Reverend Tradesecret is both a pastor and a lawyer. Small print you see shila. Its all in the small print, my friend.I won't go on only to say, is it any wonder those puppet priests didn’t want to give over this lucrative business to Jesus the interloper.Then of course as I have already mentioned, there was the genuine fear of Jesus upsetting the status quo. Such as mentioned here;" If we allow him to go on in this way, everyone will believe in him, and the Romans will come and take away our sanctuary and scatter our nation.” Which they did in the end.
Ironically they were right on both counts. The Romans established the Roman Catholic Church where over a billion Catholics believe in Jesus and the Romans did take away their sanctuary and scattered their nation.
By their actions they actually helped Jesus fulfil his prophecies.
Even Jesus acknowledged they did not know what they were doing.
Luke 23:34 Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.”
"Most atheists I know are impractical and airhead. Many end up in prison, for theft and sex related crimes, mostly kiddie crime. Many commit suicide and or are on drugs and alcohol. Not too many get married, or if they do - are on to their 4 or 4th marriage. Many are gay or lesbian. #33"I don't like the idea of me or my family being lumped in with "most" atheist that he has met.
Reverend Tradesecret was recalling his days as an atheist and the life he led before his conversion. One could read it as nostalgia.
But you are different and very grounded. You don’t expect miracles to come out of your beliefs.
You wrote: I believe that Jesus was a man that believed himself to be or was led to be believe that he was the rightful heir to the throne of David and king of the Jews and Jerusalem minus the miracles. While I also believe he was a man wrapped in a myth by the early church.
I hope I have answered your questions satisfactorily.
You have helped me take Reverend Tradesecret’s depravity more seriously.
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@Tradesecret
-> @BrotherD.ThomasTradesecret learned the hard way, https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/8091/post-links/351103Hello Brother, it seems your memory is fading.The only one around here who seems to have learned the hard way is you.Not once have you succeeded in any of you dumb attempts at foiling the God of the Bible. I expect you don't even know what the word foil means.Ha.
You appear to show moments of lucidity between gaps in your sexual dysphoria as fleeting as they are.
You were about to explain what foil means. I assume you are more familiar with it than most members here. But I managed to find what you were alluding to.
What does tinfoil mean in slang?
Tinfoil hat is widely used as an insult for acting crazy or believing in nonsense or “out-there” ideas, including conspiracy theories.
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@Stephen
--> @ShilaBut we first have to conduct ourselves worthy of such a discussion.Well, you blew that out of the water when you deceitfully tried to put words into my mouth and the mouth of Josephus.#32 . I knew then you wouldn't stay true to the topic.And if you didn't want is thread, your thread, to veer so far off course you should have stuck with the theme of the thread instead of going out of your way to hold a completely different conversation about the Brother and about someone that is quite capable of speaking for himself. You "reap what you sow", and all that.
We have to put to rest our detractors. I never put words in your mouth or anyone else’s. I put my words out in public for all to read just like I am doing here building the case for the Historical Jesus.
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@Elliott
--> @StephenNice thought, but is that truth?Simple answer without getting into the philosophical nature of "truth." Faith doesn’t require truth but it can be based on truth.
That is a good example of the case for the Historical Jesus which is based on truth and does not require faith. It offers Simple answers without getting into the philosophical nature of "truth."
Thank you.
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@Tradesecret
@Shila
Shila, the most dumbfounded Bible fool that this forum has ever seen,
"All Scripture is given by inspiration of God…." (2 Timothy 3:16)
YOUR CONTINUED DUMBFOUNDED QUOTE IN RESPONSE TO THE BIBLE PASSAGE ABOVE: "You are quoting the Gospels referred to Jesus Christ and the apostles’ teachings and not scriptures. The Holy Bible is the name given to the scripture, and the scripture in the scripture is known as the Old Testament."
Barring the fact that the Old and New Testaments are known as scripture, where you only say the Old Testament is scripture, your Bible stupidity continues! LOL! What part of the word "ALL" don't you comprehend? LOL! OMG, your evading tactics remind me of Tradesecrets, where you must have gone to her "How to evade disturbing Biblical Axioms and to try and remain intelligent looking in the aftermath Bible School!"
"ALL SCRIPTURE IS GIVEN BY INSPIRATION OF GOD!" (2 TIMOTHY 3:16). Who is the Christian God, yes, Jesus the Christ! Therefore, Jesus' written Bible is ALL inspired by Him, period, you continued dumbfounded pseudo-christian woman!!!!
Shila, how can you remain in this Religion Forum with you easily being made the Bible fool? Huh?
NEXT HELL BOUND PSEUDO-CHRISTIAN WOMAN THAT IS AS BIBLE STUPID AS TRADESECRET AND SHILA, WILL BE ...?
.
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@Tradesecret
@Shila
.
Shila, the most dumbfounded Bible fool that this forum has ever seen,
Dear Shila, can you tell the membership of this Religion Forum in how it feels to kick Jesus in the balls, and continually sin against Him by posting in this pathetic ungodly thread of yours as a Hell bound woman, whereas Jesus' inspired words says you are not too in the following verse: "Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor." (1 Timothy 2:11-14)
I will follow up on page 4 through 5 later on to keep track in how many times YOU HAVE SINNED AGAINST JESUS THE CHRIST by not following 1 Timothy 2:11-14 to the letter, where its like you perceive yourself to know more than Jesus in this respect. NOT!!! Your Bible stupidity is funny!
Remember the days when the equally Bible stupid Tradesecret continued to post within DEBATEART Religion forum as a female as well in going directly against Jesus the Christ's "inspired word" in 1 Timothy:11-14? Yes, as usual, many members of this forum Bible Slapped her Silly®️ as well in the name of Jesus, praise!
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@Shila
So you still want to discuss the Reverend rather than your own topic.
"Most atheists I know are impractical and airhead. Many end up in prison, for theft and sex related crimes, mostly kiddie crime. Many commit suicide and or are on drugs and alcohol. Not too many get married, or if they do - are on to their 4 or 4th marriage. Many are gay or lesbian. #33"I don't like the idea of me or my family being lumped in with "most" atheist that he has met.Reverend Tradesecret was recalling his days as an atheist and the life he led before his conversion. One could read it as nostalgia.
Nope. He was well and truly found by God at this time. His trouble is that he forgot this at time of writing. According to him, he had been studying religion for over 40 years and had ALSO studied and passed his law degree and was a criminal lawyer and much more in between. His trouble is, is that he has told far too many lies upon lies about himself that he forgot time frame. Time frame and chronology are not his specialist subjects. But that is his baby, let him rock it.
Irony doesn't even cover it. For all of his high education in many fields of religious studies Matthew 7:1-4 seems to have continuously escaped him..
hope I have answered your questions satisfactorily.You have helped me take Reverend Tradesecret’s depravity more seriously.
If his behaviour concerns you at all, then it is his compulsive lying that you should take more seriously. I am not interested in his depravity, or his compulsive lying and would rather not speak about it unless I am given good reason to. That's the trouble with compulsive liars, they say that many they cannot keep up with themselves and will trip themselves up very easily. He of all people should know all this, he's a criminal defence lawyer, too with clients.... isn't he?
You wrote: I believe that Jesus was a man that believed himself to be or was led to be believe that he was the rightful heir to the throne of David and king of the Jews and Jerusalem minus the miracles. While I also believe he was a man wrapped in a myth by the early church.
Yes I wrote that. And stand by it. I mean exactly what I wrote. I could write it slightly different if you like but I would still mean the same thing. Here you go
I believe that there was once a man that believed himself to be king of the Jews that other men shrouded in myth.
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@BrotherD.Thomas
Shila, the most dumbfounded Bible fool that this forum has ever seen,"All Scripture is given by inspiration of God…." (2 Timothy 3:16)
“The Scriptures” are the words written in the Holy Bible. The Gospel referred to Jesus Christ and the apostles’ teachings.
(2 Timothy 3:16) was written by Paul. Therefore it is not scriptures but apostle teachings.
Gospels are Jesus Christ’s teachings or revelations. They recount Jesus’ life, ministry, crucifixion, and resurrection. It is primarily about Jesus’ crucifixion and resurrection. It is therefore a biography of Jesus.
YOUR CONTINUED DUMBFOUNDED QUOTE IN RESPONSE TO THE BIBLE PASSAGE ABOVE: "You are quoting the Gospels referred to Jesus Christ and the apostles’ teachings and not scriptures. The Holy Bible is the name given to the scripture, and the scripture in the scripture is known as the Old Testament."Barring the fact that the Old and New Testaments are known as scripture, where you only say the Old Testament is scripture, your Bible stupidity continues! LOL! What part of the word "ALL" don't you comprehend? LOL! OMG, your evading tactics remind me of Tradesecrets, where you must have gone to her "How to evade disturbing Biblical Axioms and to try and remain intelligent looking in the aftermath Bible School!"
The Gospel referred to Jesus Christ and the apostles’ teachings.
Gospels are Jesus Christ’s teachings or revelations. They recount Jesus’ life, ministry, crucifixion, and resurrection. It is primarily about Jesus’ crucifixion and resurrection. It is therefore a biography of Jesus.
"ALL SCRIPTURE IS GIVEN BY INSPIRATION OF GOD!" (2 TIMOTHY 3:16). Who is the Christian God, yes, Jesus the Christ! Therefore, Jesus' written Bible is ALL inspired by Him, period, you continued dumbfounded pseudo-christian woman!!!!
2 TIMOTHY 3:16) Was written by Paul in 67AD. That is 37 years after Jesus was crucified. Paul never met or heard Jesus during Jesus’s life or ministry.
Shila, how can you remain in this Religion Forum with you easily being made the Bible fool? Huh?NEXT HELL BOUND PSEUDO-CHRISTIAN WOMAN THAT IS AS BIBLE STUPID AS TRADESECRET AND SHILA, WILL BE ...?
Most if not everything Jesus said he was quoting from the 24 books in the Old Testament. The scriptures were already in the Old Testament. Jesus was just rehashing them.
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@Stephen
@Tradesecret
@Shila
MISS TRADESECRET, whose gender went from a “MAN TO A WOMAN,” and then to “OTHER,” then went to her being 53 years old, then 12 years old, then changed to being 14 years old, Debate Runaway on Jesus' true MO, Bible denier of Jesus being God in the OT, the runaway to what division of Christianity she follows, the pseudo-christian that has committed the Unpardonable Sin, the number 1 Bible ignorant fool regarding the Noah's Ark narrative, SHE SAYS THAT OFFSPRING THAT CURSE THEIR PARENTS SHOULD BE KILLED, states there is FICTION within the scriptures, and is guilty of Revelation 22:18-19, 2 Timothy 4:3, and 1 Timothy 2:12. She obviously had ungodly Gender Reassignment Surgery, Satanic Bible Rewriter, she goes against Jesus in not helping the poor, teaches Christianity at Universities in a “blind leading the blind” scenario, and is a False Prophet, says that Jesus is rational when He commits abortions and makes His creation eat their children, and that Jesus is rational when He allows innocent babies to be smashed upon the rocks, will not debate me on the Trinity Doctrine or the Virgin Birth, has a myriad of EXCUSES not to answer your questions, and she is "AN ADMITTED SEXUAL DEVIANT!"
Dear, seriously, you need a new writer to "try" and combat my superior Biblically knowledge over your kindergarten knowledge of same! Look at your weak and wanting refutations to me in your following links, where how weak can you get, as usual!
Tradesecret, listen, we know that you are worried about the equally Bible stupid SHILA taking over your #1 Bible stupid and ignorant position that you have held within this forum for a long time, AND, that was the only recognition that you had in being in this forum to begin with! LOL! You and Shila should have a debate on a simple biblical topic to actually settle in who is more Bible stupid, you or Shila! Yes?
It would give this forum such great laughter again at both of your expense, at least think about it, okay? Thanks! Stephen and I can hand out the "laughter crying towels" for the membership when you start your debate because just like before, you made us laugh so hard with your complete Biblical stupidity that was easily refuted! ( My personal favorite that I have on file was your outright laughable position regarding Noah's ark, remember dear? That had to be the best Bible comedy ever written, and worth a spot on Saturday Night Live in the USA! Priceless!)
.
.
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@Shila
That is a good example of the case for the Historical Jesus which is based on truth and does not require faith. It offers Simple answers without getting into the philosophical nature of "truth."Thank you.
Shila, you seem have misinterpretation down to a fine art.
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@Tradesecret
@Shila
.
Shila, the most dumbfounded Bible fool that this forum has ever seen,
In response to your ungodly rhetoric in your lame ungodly post #138, I proffer the following biblical axioms at your expense AGAIN, understood Bible fool?
1. "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God…." (2 Timothy 3:16)
2. “EVERY word of God is flawless; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him.“ (Proverbs 30:5)
3. “And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by EVERY WORD of God.” (Luke 4:4)
You are embarrassingly excused at this time because of you trying in vain to REWRITE the scriptures to your Satanic liking! What a total waste of time and money in having your alleged Bachelors Degree that your poor parents paid for in your behalf, where it has fallen upon its proverbial face by you being so Bible ignorant. Sad indeed. :(
NEXT PSEUDO-CHRISTIAN BIBLE STUPID WOMEN EQUAL TO MISS TRADESECRET AND MISS SHILA, WILL BE ...?
.
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@BrotherD.Thomas
--> @Shila @Tradesecret.Shila, the most dumbfounded Bible fool that this forum has ever seen,Dear Shila, can you tell the membership of this Religion Forum in how it feels to kick Jesus in the balls, and continually sin against Him by posting in this pathetic ungodly thread of yours as a Hell bound woman, whereas Jesus' inspired words says you are not too in the following verse: "Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor." (1 Timothy 2:11-14)
How Jesus Viewed and Valued Women
Jesus's Countercultural View of Women
The place of women in the first-century Roman world and in Judaism has been well-documented and set forth in several recent books.1 Most frequently, women were regarded as second-class citizens.
Jesus’s regard for women was much different from that of his contemporaries. Evans terms Jesus’s approach to women as “revolutionary” for his era.2 But was his treatment of women out of character with Old Testament revelation, or with later New Testament practice? Other chapters in this volume will show that it was not.
Disciples Come in Two Sexes, Male and Female
For Christ, women have an intrinsic value equal to that of men. Jesus said, “. . . at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female’” (Matt. 19:4; cf. Gen. 1:27). Women are created in the image of God just as men are. Like men, they have self-awareness, personal freedom, a measure of self-determination, and personal responsibility for their actions.
Scanzoni and Hardesty point out that “Jesus came to earth not primarily as a male but as a person. He treated women not primarily as females but as human beings.”3 Jesus recognized women as fellow human beings. Disciples come in two sexes, male and female. Females are seen by Jesus as genuine persons, not simply as the objects of male desire.4 Hurley believes “the foundation-stone of Jesus’s attitude toward women was his vision of them as persons to whom and for whom he had come. He did not perceive them primarily in terms of their sex, age, or marital status; he seems to have considered them in terms of their relation (or lack of one) to God.”5
Three Clear Examples
Examples of this even-handed treatment of women by Jesus are found in the four Gospels.
First, Jesus regularly addressed women directly while in public. This was unusual for a man to do (John 4:27). The disciples were amazed to see Jesus talking with the Samaritan woman at the well of Sychar (John 4:7-26). He also spoke freely with the woman taken in adultery (John 8:10–11).6 Luke, who gives ample attention to women in his Gospel, notes that Jesus spoke publicly with the widow of Nain (Luke 7:12–13), the woman with the bleeding disorder (Luke 8:48; cf. Matt. 9:22; Mark 5:34), and a woman who called to him from a crowd (Luke 11:27–28). Similarly, Jesus addressed a woman bent over for eighteen years (Luke 13:12) and a group of women on the route to the cross (Luke 23:27-31).
A second aspect of Jesus’s regard for the full intrinsic value of women is seen in how he spoke to the women he addressed. He spoke in a thoughtful, caring manner. Each synoptic writer records Jesus addressing the woman with the bleeding disorder tenderly as “daughter” (references above) and referring to the bent woman as a “daughter of Abraham” (Luke 13:16). Bloesch infers that “Jesus called the Jewish women ‘daughters of Abraham’ (Luke 13:16), thereby according them a spiritual status equal to that of men.”7
Third, Jesus did not gloss over sin in the lives of the women he met. He held women personally responsible for their own sin as seen in his dealings with the woman at the well (John 4:16–18), the woman taken in adultery (John 8:10–11), and the sinful woman who anointed his feet (Luke 7:44–50). Their sin was not condoned, but confronted. Each had the personal freedom and a measure of self-determination to deal with the issues of sin, repentance, and forgiveness.
Jesus's Valuation of Women Today
Even though clear role distinction is seen in Christ’s choice of the apostles and in the exclusive type of work they were given to perform, no barriers need exist between a believer and the Lord Jesus Christ, regardless of gender. Jesus demonstrated only the highest regard for women, in both his life and teaching. He recognized the intrinsic equality of men and women, and continually showed the worth and dignity of women as persons. Jesus valued their fellowship, prayers, service, financial support, testimony and witness. He honored women, taught women, and ministered to women in thoughtful ways.
As a result, women responded warmly to Jesus’s ministry. Have things changed too drastically today for us to see this same Jesus? Not at all. Modern women can find the same rich fulfillment in serving Christ as did the Marys and Marthas of Judea, or the Joannas and Susannas of Galilee.
I will follow up on page 4 through 5 later on to keep track in how many times YOU HAVE SINNED AGAINST JESUS THE CHRIST by not following 1 Timothy 2:11-14 to the letter, where its like you perceive yourself to know more than Jesus in this respect. NOT!!! Your Bible stupidity is funny!
2 TIMOTHY 3:16) Was written by Paul in 67AD. That is 37 years after Jesus was crucified. Paul never met or heard Jesus during Jesus’s life or ministry.
The Gospels and writings by Paul are just biographies about Jesus his life and teachings. Jesus said he was sen5 to fulfill all that was promised in the Old Testament.
Matthew 5:17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
Remember the days when the equally Bible stupid Tradesecret continued to post within DEBATEART Religion forum as a female as well in going directly against Jesus the Christ's "inspired word" in 1 Timothy:11-14? Yes, as usual, many members of this forum Bible Slapped her Silly®️ as well in the name of Jesus, praise!
You keep bringing up Tradesecret because you are obsessed with her sexual dysphoria.
Then you keep repeating Timothy as inspired scriptures. Paul wrote Timothy.
What was Paul teaching in the Bible?
He preached the death, resurrection, and lordship of Jesus Christ, and he proclaimed that faith in Jesus guarantees a share in his life which is all just a biography of Jesus since Paul never met or knew Jesus in real life.
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@Elliott
-->--> @StephenNice thought, but is that truth?Simple answer without getting into the philosophical nature of "truth." Faith doesn’t require truth but it can be based on truth.
That is a good example of the case for the Historical Jesus which is based on truth and does not require faith. It offers Simple answers without getting into the philosophical nature of "truth."
Thank you.
Shila, you seem have misinterpretation down to a fine art.
Just applying your truths to my case of the Historical Jesus. I will mention you in the acknowledgment.
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@Stephen
--> @ShilaSo you still want to discuss the Reverend rather than your own topic."Most atheists I know are impractical and airhead. Many end up in prison, for theft and sex related crimes, mostly kiddie crime. Many commit suicide and or are on drugs and alcohol. Not too many get married, or if they do - are on to their 4 or 4th marriage. Many are gay or lesbian. #33"I don't like the idea of me or my family being lumped in with "most" atheist that he has met.
Reverend Tradesecret was recalling his days as an atheist and the life he led before his conversion. One could read it as nostalgia.
Nope. He was well and truly found by God at this time. His trouble is that he forgot this at time of writing. According to him, he had been studying religion for over 40 years and had ALSO studied and passed his law degree and was a criminal lawyer and much more in between. His trouble is, is that he has told far too many lies upon lies about himself that he forgot time frame. Time frame and chronology are not his specialist subjects. But that is his baby, let him rock it.Irony doesn't even cover it. For all of his high education in many fields of religious studies Matthew 7:1-4 seems to have continuously escaped him..I hope I have answered your questions satisfactorily.
You have helped me take Reverend Tradesecret’s depravity more seriously.
If his behaviour concerns you at all, then it is his compulsive lying that you should take more seriously. I am not interested in his depravity, or his compulsive lying and would rather not speak about it unless I am given good reason to. That's the trouble with compulsive liars, they say that many they cannot keep up with themselves and will trip themselves up very easily. He of all people should know all this, he's a criminal defence lawyer, too with clients.... isn't he?
Compulsive lying is proof he has not mastered the truth and has to lie to cover his deficiencies. They used to crucify people for blasphemy in the old days.
You wrote: I believe that Jesus was a man that believed himself to be or was led to be believe that he was the rightful heir to the throne of David and king of the Jews and Jerusalem minus the miracles. While I also believe he was a man wrapped in a myth by the early church.
Yes I wrote that. And stand by it. I mean exactly what I wrote. I could write it slightly different if you like but I would still mean the same thing. Here you goI believe that there was once a man that believed himself to be king of the Jews that other men shrouded in myth.
Is it possible they wanted Jesus to be the King of the Jews. But Jesus replied differently.
John 18:36 Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders. But now my kingdom is from another place.”
I maintain Jesus was misunderstood. The thorough study of the Bible reveals that.
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@Shila
Just applying your truths to my case of the Historical Jesus. I will mention you in the acknowledgment.
To quote Pilate ~ “What is truth?”
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@BrotherD.Thomas
Added 10.16.22 12:50PM--> @Shila @Tradesecret.Shila, the most dumbfounded Bible fool that this forum has ever seen,In response to your ungodly rhetoric in your lame ungodly post #138, I proffer the following biblical axioms at your expense AGAIN, understood Bible fool?1. "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God…." (2 Timothy 3:16)
The scriptures Paul is referring to are in the Old Testament (Hebrew Bible)
Remember the Gospels and Paul’s writings are a biography of Jesus his life and teachings. Paul never met or knew Jesus in real life or he would have known Jesus himself quoted scriptures from 24 books in the Old Testament. Even Jesus found the scriptures inspirational and often quoted them.
2. “EVERY word of God is flawless; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him.“ (Proverbs 30:5)
Yes Proverbs is scriptures from the Old Testament.
3. “And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by EVERY WORD of God.” (Luke 4:4)
Jesus always referred to God’s word which quoted from 24 books in the Old Testament.
Jesus even confirmed he only spoke what God has commanded him to say. Just as God commanded Moses and others to say in the Old Testament.
John 12:49 For I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me to say all that I have spoken.
You are embarrassingly excused at this time because of you trying in vain to REWRITE the scriptures to your Satanic liking! What a total waste of time and money in having your alleged Bachelors Degree that your poor parents paid for in your behalf, where it has fallen upon its proverbial face by you being so Bible ignorant. Sad indeed. :(NEXT PSEUDO-CHRISTIAN BIBLE STUPID WOMEN EQUAL TO MISS TRADESECRET AND MISS SHILA, WILL BE ...?
I paid for my own education by working part time in the financial institution. I also fundraiser for Christian Charities which is why I am so fluent in Christian Theology.
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@Elliott
--> @ShilaJust applying your truths to my case of the Historical Jesus. I will mention you in the acknowledgment.To quote Pilate ~ “What is truth?”
You will soon find out the historical Jesus was innocent as I build the case for the Historical Jesus. Jesus was misunderstood.
John 18:38 “What is truth?” retorted Pilate. With this he went out again to the Jews gathered there and said, “I find no basis for a charge against him.
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@BrotherD.Thomas
MISS TRADESECRET, whose gender went from a “MAN TO A WOMAN,” and then to “OTHER,” then went to her being 53 years old, then 12 years old, then changed to being 14 years old, Debate Runaway on Jesus' true MO, Bible denier of Jesus being God in the OT, the runaway to what division of Christianity she follows, the pseudo-christian that has committed the Unpardonable Sin, the number 1 Bible ignorant fool regarding the Noah's Ark narrative, SHE SAYS THAT OFFSPRING THAT CURSE THEIR PARENTS SHOULD BE KILLED, states there is FICTION within the scriptures, and is guilty of Revelation 22:18-19, 2 Timothy 4:3, and 1 Timothy 2:12. She obviously had ungodly Gender Reassignment Surgery, Satanic Bible Rewriter, she goes against Jesus in not helping the poor, teaches Christianity at Universities in a “blind leading the blind” scenario, and is a False Prophet, says that Jesus is rational when He commits abortions and makes His creation eat their children, and that Jesus is rational when He allows innocent babies to be smashed upon the rocks, will not debate me on the Trinity Doctrine or the Virgin Birth, has a myriad of EXCUSES not to answer your questions, and she is "AN ADMITTED SEXUAL DEVIANT!"
If you believe all this is true about Reverend Tradesecret you should be sympathetic towards the poor transgender instead of attacking him/her/it in your final analysis.
One can hardly call you normal obsessing over perverts at your age and limited income and education.
Dear, seriously, you need a new writer to "try" and combat my superior Biblically knowledge over your kindergarten knowledge of same! Look at your weak and wanting refutations to me in your following links, where how weak can you get, as usual!Tradesecret, listen, we know that you are worried about the equally Bible stupid SHILA taking over your #1 Bible stupid and ignorant position that you have held within this forum for a long time, AND, that was the only recognition that you had in being in this forum to begin with! LOL! You and Shila should have a debate on a simple biblical topic to actually settle in who is more Bible stupid, you or Shila! Yes?
You are hinting at a threesome to mix it up. Proof you are equally a pervert.
It would give this forum such great laughter again at both of your expense, at least think about it, okay? Thanks! Stephen and I can hand out the "laughter crying towels" for the membership when you start your debate because just like before, you made us laugh so hard with your complete Biblical stupidity that was easily refuted! ( My personal favorite that I have on file was your outright laughable position regarding Noah's ark, remember dear? That had to be the best Bible comedy ever written, and worth a spot on Saturday Night Live in the USA! Priceless!)
You must be very sick to join a religion forum because it compares will to Saturday Night Live in the USA! Priceless!
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@BrotherD.Thomas
just like before, you made us laugh so hard with your complete Biblical stupidity that was easily refuted! ( My personal favorite that I have on file was your outright laughable position regarding Noah's ark, remember dear? That had to be the best Bible comedy ever written, and worth a spot on Saturday Night Live in the USA! Priceless!)
I think I can beat that Brother D.
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@Shila
You wrote: I believe that Jesus was a man that believed himself to be or was led to be believe that he was the rightful heir to the throne of David and king of the Jews and Jerusalem minus the miracles. While I also believe he was a man wrapped in a myth by the early church.Yes I wrote that. And stand by it. I mean exactly what I wrote. I could write it slightly different if you like but I would still mean the same thing. Here you go. I believe that there was once a man that believed himself to be king of the Jews that other men shrouded in myth.Is it possible they wanted Jesus to be the King of the Jews.
Who are the "they"?
If his behaviour concerns you at all, then it is his compulsive lying that you should take more seriously. I am not interested in his depravity, or his compulsive lying and would rather not speak about it unless I am given good reason to. That's the trouble with compulsive liars, they say that many they cannot keep up with themselves and will trip themselves up very easily. He of all people should know all this, he's a criminal defence lawyer, too with clients.... isn't he?Compulsive lying is proof he has not mastered the truth and has to lie to cover his deficiencies.
That is something he will have to deal with.