EXCLUSIVE: INTERNAL EMAILS: CDC Officials Told They SPREAD MISINFORMATION

Author: Public-Choice

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You wanna know what's really funny about this forum post?

Nobody is actually reading the emails that The Epoch Times has in their article.

Everyone on here spent so much time bullshitting about credibility that they didn't even read the emails from CDC STAFF.

It doesn't matter if Russia Today released this article, it has the actual emails in it. It is primary source material. It could be released by a high school paper for all that matters. It doesn't change the content of the emails.
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@Public-Choice
You wanna know what's really funny about this forum post?
Nobody is actually reading the emails that The Epoch Times has in their article.
  • False
Everyone on here spent so much time bullshitting about credibility that they didn't even read the emails from CDC STAFF.
  • False.  I clearly read the emails and you clearly did not.  You also clearly failed to read my posts.  Please read more carefully.  Please read post #27.  Please answer all 8 questions I posed to you there as directly as you are able.
It doesn't matter if Russia Today released this article
  • It does matter because when you submitted this claim yesterday, the email and the accusation were all concealed behind a wall which required me to give my contact information to a cult.  Since there was no way I was going to do that I had to wait until I could see a copy on archive.  I was able to read the emails and point out to you how totally unconcerning and nothingburger they were, which you failed to respond to.
In short, while it is true that  Kelley Khrohnert  noticed a difference between two different and informal methods of counting COVID deaths in children, neither number represents any official report to the public, just preliminary data gathering.   One stat counted any mention of COVID in a cause of death report while the other only counted conclusions that COVID represented the primary cause of death. 

We should note that even though Ms. Khrohnert was not a scientist or statistician or reporter, Sara Oliver did take time out on a Saturday to address her concerns.  Unfortunately, Ms. Oliver's reply is redacted out of the email but whatever its contents, her response seem to satisfy all of the newspaper reporters Ms. Khronert  had alerted with her nothing concerns back in mid-June.  Whether Ms. Khrohnert was satisified with Ms. Oliver's response is never reported by the worst reporters who ever existed.  Why your POS source decided to report this non-concern 4 months later is never explained.

Since the data was not released to the public, you calling that discrepency "disinformation" is a total lie, or if you prefer, bearing false witness against your neighbor.
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@Public-Choice
I am also going to reprint this post since you seem to have missed it too.  Please explain why you told these very specific, very untrue lies.
->@Public-Choice
Look, I don't agree with Falun Dafa at all. But they arent crazies who are going around lying to people. The Epoch Times is a very honest paper. Biased, yes. But honest.
You told some very specific lies about Epoch Times without offering evidence:

  • they employ plenty of non-religious adherents.
  • The Epoch Media Group was actually dropped by The Epoch Times years before this happened
  • You're talking about Epoch Vietnam, which, despite the similar name, is not currently affiliated with The Epoch Times and has not been for about 10 years
  • They do not endorse or support Qanon in any capacity.
I have employed very specific evidence (Atlantic Monthly, NY TImes, LinkedIn, Epoch Times) to establish the falsehood of all of these claims.   I asked specifically for your sources and you simply dodged.  Did you just invent all this bullshit or did these claims come from some source?  Was Master Li in control of your information source?


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@oromagi
they employ plenty of non-religious adherents.
Roger Simon:

Joshua Philip:

Jasper Fakkert:

Jeff Carlson:

Dinesh D'Souza:

Oh, and they once interviewed me for a position over at NTD, their cable news network. I hadn't even heard of Falun Dafa at all back then. And I am certainly not an adherent.

Also, here's a 2022 application page:

As you can see, the position is open for any Canadians at all.

The Epoch Media Group was actually dropped by The Epoch Times years before this happened

I had the names mixed up, since this was from memory, but that's their response to the false allegations.

You're talking about Epoch Vietnam, which, despite the similar name, is not currently affiliated with The Epoch Times and has not been for about 10 years

It was also 2018, not 10 years ago. But outside of that what I said was accurate.

They do not endorse or support Qanon in any capacity.
I don't have to prove a negative, but I will anyway:
The QAnon movement follows clues from cryptic messages posted to anonymous imageboards. A prominent aspect of the theory alleges that global elites are part of a satanic pedophile ring.

The newly elected GOP representative has been criticized over a number of statements including her support for the QAnon conspiracy, once claiming QAnon is a “once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to take this global cabal of Satan-worshiping pedophiles out.”

His self-anointed title “QAnon shaman” stems from his personal belief that satanic pedophiles are running a child sex trafficking ring and conspired against President Donald Trump while in office.

And this final one is their first ever article on Qanon where they explain what it is:
While opinions vary as to its nature and intent, QAnon is a movement that started on 4chan and 8chan message boards with a trickle of clandestine-sounding posts, often centered on the theme of big government plots to curb individual liberties and advance so-called deep state and globalist agendas. It grew into a large underground movement with a number of splinter groups and often claims that members of the world’s social, economic, and political elites have engaged in child sex trafficking and cannibalism.

There are many theories on who is behind Q. Among the more common beliefs is that Q stands for Q security clearance, the highest level of clearance within the Department of Energy. Others believe it refers to “Q” from the James Bond films, a figure who supports Bond as he fights a global corrupt shadow group.

Does any of that sound like supporting the movement to you? They didn't and still don't. In fact you can read all the other articles on their website about qanon here:

I have employed very specific evidence (Atlantic Monthly, NY TImes, LinkedIn, Epoch Times)
When did you cite an Epoch Times article? The others are not primary sources about The Epoch Times. To know what a person believes, you don't ask someone who hates them. You ask the person whom you wish to know what they believe.

The same applies to organizations. You actually go to them and you hear their side and you investigate whom they have hired and connect themselves to and figure it out from there. You don't just bring up news reports from organizations with known ties to globalist organizations and intelligence community psyop departments.
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@oromagi
It does matter because when you submitted this claim yesterday, the email and the accusation were all concealed behind a wall which required me to give my contact information to a cult.
It was walled? I didn't know. I am already a subscriber and nothing bad has happened to me. And it isn't a cult any more than Shaolin Buddhism or Catholicism or being Amish is.

Also, who said you needed to give your real contact info? You work in IT, you should know better lmao.

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-->@oromagi
they employ plenty of non-religious adherents.
I don't think just linking to their Epoch Times profile is going to prove that they are not Falun Gong.  Admittedly, assessing somebody's religious beliefs based from online info is generally difficult, especially if they're motivated to downplay that connection.  I am relying on primary sources like Steven Klett's description of working in that newsroom in 2016:

"Whereas the digital team was made up mostly of people who grew up in or around New York, the print staff was geographically diverse, hailing from China, Europe, Canada, and Australia. Many of them seemed to be married to or seeing someone else on staff. They were workaholics, arriving each day before the digital team and leaving well after. Stranger still, many—if not all—of them were followers of Falun Gong."
Klett seems to definitely include Fakkert in the Falun Gong group.  D'Souza and Carlson don't seem to have anything to do with the newsroom and I don't have descriptions of how decisions are made on the TV side.  (I recall D'Souza  identifying as an ex-Catholic non-denominational Christian in the past.)

Unshaken Faith
Forward
Alliterative verse dedicated to Falun Gong practitioners who have faced persecution in China since July 20, 1999
 
The ground was broken, crusty, cracked
for miles and miles, and ever on,
and in the distance, black clouds called
out death and doom, from Hell they hailed.
The beast arose, its face like flame
its arms around, the far horizons;
its wake a storm, of dark domain.
A single knight, did solely stand
gold armor gleaming, Heaven’s mark
on steed he sat, that like its master
mute, unmoved, on the battle plain.
With courage cool, the knight looked on
right through the dark, to further fields,
his brave heart rose, to brim on madness,
yet tranquilly, they stood there still.
Then dashing on, he steered his steed,
two forces flying, ‘cross the land
no weapon wielded, in his hands,
yet faith held fast, its glory true,
The silence boomed, midst gallop n’ gale,
in each their eyes, the polar flames
when just a breath, before colliding
from heaven’s heights, shone brightest light
right through the demon, dark dissolved,
the knight rode on, through patched domain
where demons falling, turned to rain.

Hmmm.. . writing poetry on a Falun Gong website about the unshakable faith of Falun Gong practitioners certainly sounds like an adherent to me.

Oh, and they once interviewed me for a position over at NTD, their cable news network. I hadn't even heard of Falun Dafa at all back then. And I am certainly not an adherent.

Also, here's a 2022 application page:

As you can see, the position is open for any Canadians at all.
  • Well, it is a work from home job so you don't even have to be a Canadian but why would any honest journalist's job ever be "work from home?"  This is consistent with Steven Klett's description of the job in 2016- his job as Epoch's digital political reporter was to garner facts from actual news outlets and quickly rewrite those stories with a right-wing spin- his pay was linked to how many hits and shares he got.  Be sure to read his description of trying to write about the Pulse Nightclub shooting without mentioning that the victims were gay or the motive was homophobic (Master Li is uncomfortable with that gay stuff).  Klett also describes how he got quickly involved with a Falun Gong girlfriend, pressured to join Falun Gong and fired after a few months on the job just a week before the elections (because, hey, who needs a political reporter for a presidential election?)
  • I'm sure as a fast growing international media company they are increasingly forced to hire from outside the cult but Falun Gong seems to maintain content control.  Master Li still refers to the Epoch Times as "his" newspaper and I think that is ultimately true.
I had the names mixed up, since this was from memory, but that's their response to the false allegations.
  • Which was likewise false.  Snopes breaks down the pretty undeniable association between BL and Epoch Times here    Although Epoch Times consistently denies any connection, Snopes shows that they still shared corporate registrations, office space, employees, servers, etc.
You're talking about Epoch Vietnam, which, despite the similar name, is not currently affiliated with The Epoch Times and has not been for about 10 years

It was also 2018, not 10 years ago. But outside of that what I said was accurate.
Does any of that sound like supporting the movement to you? They didn't and still don't. In fact you can read all the other articles on their website about qanon here:

The Epoch Times has promoted an array of pro-Donald Trump conspiracy theories[41][89] and is known as one of Trump's closest media allies and defenders.[41][36]
The paper has financially benefited from its promotion of Trump conspiracies, increasing its revenue nearly fourfold during the first three years of Trump's administration (from $3.9 million in 2016 to $15.5 million in 2019) as it catered to Trump's most ardent supporters, to whom the paper marketed itself via targeted social media advertising.[19][90]
The publication championed Trump's Spygate conspiracy theory in its news coverage and advertising, and the Epoch Media Group's Edge of Wonder videos on YouTube spread the far-right, pro-Trump QAnon conspiracy theory[30] and embraced false QAnon claims.[91]
An NBC News report found that two of Edge of Wonder's hosts have been a creative director and chief photo editor at The Epoch Times. The newspaper promoted Edge of Wonder videos in dozens of Facebook posts through 2019.[30]
In September 2019, during the Trump–Ukraine scandalHunter Biden's Wikipedia article included dubious claims about his business dealings in Ukraine and his father Joe Biden's motivations for going after a Ukrainian prosecutor; the claims were sourced to The Epoch Times and The New American.[92] The Epoch Times promoted the conspiracy theory that Joe Biden had abused his power in 2016 to protect Hunter's business interests in Ukraine.[93]
During the February 2020 Iowa Democratic caucusesThe Epoch Times shared viral disinformation from the conservative group Judicial Watch that falsely alleged inflated voter rolls.[94][95] The disinformation, which went viral on Facebook, was debunked by fact checkers and the Iowa secretary of state.[95][96][97] A Harvard media expert said that The Epoch Times employed a "classic disinformation tactic" known as "trading up the chain", in which false stories are repackaged and shared.[94]
After Trump lost the 2020 presidential electionThe Epoch Times consistently sought to question the election results.[35] The organization produced a 93-minute video that falsely suggested widespread fraud in the counting; one interviewee, attorney Lin Wood, falsely alleged that China had bought an American election vendor.[42] Versions of the video on YouTube, the Epoch Times website and NTD were viewed hundreds of thousands of times.[42]
The Epoch Times created a network of seven new YouTube channels to pump out election disinformation and other false claims, including falsehoods about the Nashville Christmas Day bombing.[41] Only one of the seven YouTube channels disclosed its ties to The Epoch Times or Falun Gong.[41] In the two and a half months after their creation, the disinformation channels garnered tens of millions of views and at least 1.1 million subscribers.[41]
One of the channels ("Eye Opener With Michael Lewis") portrays itself as an independent effort by the host "and a few friends".[41] After the videos' false and misleading claims were reported, YouTube removed several of the videos in accordance with the site's policy against election disinformation.[41]
The newspaper helped publicize the January 6, 2021, Trump rally in Washington, D.C., that led to the storming of the Capitol by a violent pro-Trump mob. Afterward, one of its columnists suggested that the riot was a "false flag" operation,[35] and Michael Lewis's Epoch Times-linked YouTube channel echoed the same lie, suggesting that the Capitol attack was orchestrated by "antifa" as part of an "old Communist tactic."[41]

I have employed very specific evidence (Atlantic Monthly, NY TImes, LinkedIn, Epoch Times)
When did you cite an Epoch Times article?
  • I linked directly to Epoch Times Vietnam to demonstrate the falsity of your claims (which you ignored and repeated).
The others are not primary sources about The Epoch Times.

  • False.  Both the Atlantic Monthly and NY Times interviewed members of Falun Gong and former Epoch Times employees and noted rejected requests for comment from Epoch Times, NTD, Falun Gong, etc. (As real reporters do, as Epoch Times never ever does).



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@Public-Choice
-->@Public-Choice
You wanna know what's really funny about this forum post?
Nobody is actually reading the emails that The Epoch Times has in their article.
  • False
Everyone on here spent so much time bullshitting about credibility that they didn't even read the emails from CDC STAFF.
  • False.  I clearly read the emails and you clearly did not.  You also clearly failed to read my posts.  Please read more carefully.  Please read post #27.  Please answer all 8 questions I posed to you there as directly as you are able.
It doesn't matter if Russia Today released this article
  • It does matter because when you submitted this claim yesterday, the email and the accusation were all concealed behind a wall which required me to give my contact information to a cult.  Since there was no way I was going to do that I had to wait until I could see a copy on archive.  I was able to read the emails and point out to you how totally unconcerning and nothingburger they were, which you failed to respond to.
In short, while it is true that  Kelley Khrohnert  noticed a difference between two different and informal methods of counting COVID deaths in children, neither number represents any official report to the public, just preliminary data gathering.   One stat counted any mention of COVID in a cause of death report while the other only counted conclusions that COVID represented the primary cause of death. 

We should note that even though Ms. Khrohnert was not a scientist or statistician or reporter, Sara Oliver did take time out on a Saturday to address her concerns.  Unfortunately, Ms. Oliver's reply is redacted out of the email but whatever its contents, her response seem to satisfy all of the newspaper reporters Ms. Khronert  had alerted with her nothing concerns back in mid-June.  Whether Ms. Khrohnert was satisfied with Ms. Oliver's response is never reported by the worst reporters who ever existed.  Why your POS source decided to report this non-concern 4 months later is never explained.

Since the data was not released to the public, you calling that discrepancy "disinformation" is a total lie, or if you prefer, bearing false witness against your neighbor.

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@oromagi
Although Epoch Times consistently denies any connection, Snopes shows that they still shared corporate registrations, office space, employees, servers, etc.
If you read their rebuttals on their website, you'd know they said it was an administrative error. But you likely didn't read it because you aren't interested in truth, only advancing your own opinions.

They state:
VET is independently registered, independently owned, and not part of EMG. EMG does not oversee its editorial guidelines, does not provide guidance for its operations, and has no communication with its management.

This separation was made public knowledge in October 2018 when Vietnamese was no longer listed as an edition on the Epoch Times website, as can be seen in an archived webpage from October 2018. (Compare “languages” in archived webpages from September 2018 and October 2018.)
They also cover the fact that Epoch Times emails were used:

No BL Executives Were Known to Work for EMG and or to Administer EMG Facebook Pages

In a divorce, it is not unusual for there to be loose ends that are not taken care of.

A Facebook spokesperson told The Wall Street Journal “that executives of The BL were active administrators on Epoch Media Group-controlled pages.”

Upon learning of Facebook’s statement, EMG conducted its own internal investigation and determined that several people had not had their credentials revoked due to an administrative oversight. EMG is not aware of these individuals altering any EMG Facebook pages.

In August 2018, EMG revoked the Facebook credentials of VET staff. EMG is unaware of their possible affiliation with BL.

Similarly, while Snopes points out that Trung used an NTD email account when he incorporated BL in Wyoming in January 2019 (superseding the original 2016 incorporation in California), his possessing this account was an administrative oversight. It should have been deleted when EMG cut ties with him.

Snopes names a handful of former EMG employees who now work for BL and presents this as evidence that EMG and BL are “linked.”

But Snopes also reports that BL says the former EMG employees are now full-time BL staff. In an email, BL told Snopes, “The BL has NO connection with The Epoch Times.
Even Epoch Vietnam stated they are not affiliated with Epoch Media Groupm snopes, themselves documents this:
Back in October 2019, an unidentified staff member of The BL told us via email that “The BL has NO connection with The Epoch Times.”

So they received an email from BL themselves denying the conspiracy theory that EMG and BL are connected. They aren't. Snopes even admits that they both denied any connection to each other:

At this point Snopes is openly peddling a conspiracy theory.

As real reporters do, as Epoch Times never ever does
I can tell you never bothered to even read some of the articles I linked to... Since they do exactly that. But here's other examples:





There's more here:

They do exactly what journalists are supposed to do. Report the news from all sides involved so long as the side gives them a comment.
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@Public-Choice
If you read their rebuttals on their website, you'd know they said it was an administrative error. But you likely didn't read it because you aren't interested in truth, only advancing your own opinions.
lol.  Oops we accidently registered our company under the wrong name, accidently loaded our website onto a stranger's server, accidently shared an office with people we claim we never met.  That is some administrative error.

Independent investigations by Facebook,  Atlantic Council Digital Forensic Research Lab, Snopes, Wall St. Journal, the Atlantic Monthly, New York Times, NBC all conclude that Falun Gong is lying when they claimed that BL was not theirs, that they were leveraging Vietnamese actors posing as Americans to push political content.  The only reports that come to a different conclusion are the self-interested denials from Epoch Times.  The fact that Facebook caught Epoch Times pulling the same scam 6 months later under a different company name, TruthMedia, and Epoch Times denied any interest again in spite of the evidence only reinforces reporters' findings.  Epoch Times repeated, stupid denials that they continue to own Epoch Times Vietnam is easily disproved by visiting that site


where their contact info is still Epoch Media group and they still advertise for Falun Gong's dance troupe above the headlines.

These easily disproved lies are the best evidence that Epoch Times is still run by Master Li's cult- no independent news organization would persist in repeating the lie in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary but denying reality is Master Li's stock in trade and he loses no followers by persisting.



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Let's do a bit of a review here:

THESIS:  CDC Officials Told They SPREAD MISINFORMATION

Conclusion:  While it is true that a person told CDC officials and an unspecified number of media outlets via email mid-June  that they (the CDC) spread misinformation, no fact seems to sustain this claim.  The person appears to have no authority or expertise in the matter of COVID or medicine or science.  Although we can see  that the CDC responded to this person's emailed concern within 24 hours of receipt, the content of that reply is unknown.  Nor do we know whether the person felt like her concern had been addressed.  We do know that at least one reporter from the Washington Post had that response mailed to her on the same day but no story was ever written about the random lady's email or the CDC's response, so at least one reporter was probably satisfied with the reply.

  • It is true that CDC officials were told by some lady that they spread misinformation
  • There is no evidence to sustain that lady's claim that the CDC spread misinformation
THESIS:   CDC Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky appeared to cite the false statistics while urging parents to get their children vaccinated
Conclusion:    I have not seen Dr. Walensky's remarks or exactly what figure she used.  The very incomplete e-mail chain suggests that there is a discrepancy between two different sets of data, both of which are preliminary numbers and that discrepancy is accounted for by the use of two different methods used for gathering that data. I am inferring that the lady who e-mailed strongly prefers one methodology and considers Walensky's use of the other methodology "false" and "misinformation."  Although we can see that many scientists and at least one reporter looked into the complaint, none were apparently impressed with the claim until The Epoch Times ran it as an exclusive four months later.  The Times never explains why they considered this news but the Times is itself one of the most aggressive sources for fake COVID news on the internet so it is reasonable to assume that their reasons might be less than compelling or worthwhile.

Why public-choice elected to repost this nothingburger is not clear.

Questions I have regarding the validity of this reporting:

  • How did the epochtimes acquire these emails and why are they presented as they are, jumbled in with a lot of other irrelevant emails?
  • Who did the redacting and why are the essential responses redacted?
  • Did Ms. Krohnert receive Ms. Oliver's response  and what was her reaction?
  • Were Ms. Oliver and Ms. Fleming-Dutra contacted for this article?  What was their response?
  • Since the epochtimes appear to have been made aware of this in mid-June, why wait to mid-October to run it as a story?
  • Ultimately, this story boils down to a non-scientific general criticism of scientists' use of data.  Although we don't get the details of the scientists' responses, we do get the impression that they were unimpressed by the non-scientists concern.
  • Since other papers looked into this and decided it was a non-story in June, what aspect of this makes it a story now?  Was it just a slow news day? 
  • Since the data was shared internally and never seems to have been treated as hard fact, what are the grounds for calling this disinformation?


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@oromagi
Oops we accidently registered our company under the wrong name, accidently loaded our website onto a stranger's server, accidently shared an office with people we claim we never met. That is some administrative error.
That isn't what happened. The BL had their own server, it was not their website, and they pursued copyright infringement on YouTube against Viet Epoch Times.

And they didn't share an office either. Don't make things up.
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@oromagi
all conclude that Falun Gong is lying 
They also all concluded Trump colluded with Russia. They were wrong on that one too lmao.

It's amazing what one can "conclude" when they ignore evidence.

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@Public-Choice

->@oromagi
all conclude that Falun Gong is lying 
They also all concluded Trump colluded with Russia. They were wrong on that one too lmao.

It's amazing what one can "conclude" when they ignore evidence.

  • Seems like you are pretty desperate to change the subject.
  • In POST #31 you complained that "Nobody is actually reading the emails that The Epoch Times has in their article."  Well, I read the emails and pointed out to you that they were a a very sloppy tangle with all the pertinent information seemingly redacted out, resulting in almost zero establishment of fact and making your OP seem like nonsense.  I have asked you a whole bunch of specific questions about those emails which you are dodging like Neo dodged bullets in the Matrix.  I wonder why?



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@Athias
What is hilariously ironic is that Badger uses a Mark Twain quote in defense of the virtues of appealing to authority, when on a great many occasions, Twain himself admitted he was idiotic in certain things he believed at the time. Most of his writings describe the journey he took to reverse some of his idiotic beliefs, especially regarding slavery and racism.

So the corollary to "never argue with an idiot" is also to "never prop him up as an authority on truth either."

The correct action is reformation through persuasion. But that philosophy was already in stone thousands of years before Twain.


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@Greyparrot
What's even more ironic is that Mark Twain stated how he hated experts because they were morons:

"Politicians and diapers must be changed often, and for the same reason."

"I was educated once - it took me years to get over it."

"If you don't read the newspaper, you're uninformed. If you read the newspaper, you're mis-informed."

"How easy it is to make people believe a lie, and [how] hard it is to undo that work again!"

"If voting made any difference they wouldn't let us do it."

"Our lives, our liberty, and our property are never in greater danger than when Congress is in session."

"We have the best government that money can buy."

"Just because you’re taught that something’s right and everyone believes it’s right, it don’t make it right."

There's more, but I think I have succinctly shown that Mark Twain did not, by any means, love experts simply because they were experts.

8 days later

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@oromagi
  • I have warned PC before regarding this source so the fact that he continues to rely on it is telling
Who the fuck do you think you are?

You, warning another forum user... GTFOH!!! 
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@TWS1405
I consider it a perfectly friendly act to warn a fellow user that the source he is relying on for his news is a Chinese cult and that he should not trust it.  Not sure why you are experiencing all that emotion about it or why you wouldn't want the same kind of heads up but then, I am pretty sure I'm not interested.
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@oromagi
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I consider it a perfectly friendly act to warn a fellow user that the source he is relying on for his news is a Chinese cult and that he should not trust it.  Not sure why you are experiencing all that emotion about it or why you wouldn't want the same kind of heads up but then, I am pretty sure I'm not interested.

Look, I may have jumped into an A-B conversation as C, but it was the tone/inflection of the choice of words that sparked my 'emotion.' 
It helps, for the sake of late comers, if you continue to cite the source that proves it is a so-called "Chinese cult" reference. Then perhaps those like myself won't get so irritated with such arrogant declarations!
sadolite
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sadolite
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My google searches and sources are better than your google searches sources so I am right.