transgenderism

Author: TheUnderdog

Posts

Total: 76
ludofl3x
ludofl3x's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,015
3
2
2
ludofl3x's avatar
ludofl3x
3
2
2
-->
@YouFound_Lxam
When you start to change the definitions of words, then that poses worldwide issues. 
Yes, you've mentioned, and now this is the third time I'll ask: what are these issues SPECIFICALLY? What issue SPECIFICALLY is caused by having transgendered people allowed to identify themselves, rather than have you identify them? Is it just a communication issue?

When investigators have to identify the genders of their victims (assuming, mister language precision, you don't mean the victims of the investigators, but rather the victims of crimes, because your sentence here says victims of investigators)...can they mark "biological sex" down for those who are deceased, and consult the victim themselves if they're alive? What happens?
Are you that dull?

Three letters:
DNA

If all the investigators have is DNA, and they are trying to match it to a suspect, and that suspect identifies as the opposite gender, then it's going to be very difficult to find them, yes?
So your big concern is that if a transgender person murders someone, and their DNA is present, and they provide a DNA sample while wearing the clothing of the opposite (non-birth) gender, then what, case dismissed? This is why we should tell high school kids if they need to go by he or she? You're just looking out for the victims of murder by transgendered people whose wigs and fake breasts can fool DNA analysis?

But they at least mean the basic same thing. You can translate a sentence in English to German, and vice versa, yes?

So, we have a common understanding of words. 
This proves the point that even when there are nuances in the definitions of words, and vast differences in the languages used to express them, somehow we still find a way to understand each other as humans, when we put our minds to it. Wouldn't you agree? Now, do you think that the "primer" for this understanding, the bedrock on which all human languages can be understood, is the definition of the word 'woman'? If you and a German understand this word differently, in other words, are you now no longer able to effectively communicate about gender at all? Can you communicate about any issue if you don't share exactly the same definition?
ludofl3x
ludofl3x's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,015
3
2
2
ludofl3x's avatar
ludofl3x
3
2
2
-->
@RationalMadman
To me, there is nothing inherently wrong about playing out the gender role attached to a biological sex you were not assigned at birth. The only way to do that coherently is to admit you are against the people who say that we cannot define women and to instead define it as the cookie cutter feminine things that you either want to mimic or wish to avoid.
Yeah, you kinda lost me here. I'm not sure why you think the second sentence is the case, but you're entitled to your opinion. I don't really even understand what it means. 
YouFound_Lxam
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
Debates: 32
Posts: 2,125
3
4
7
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
YouFound_Lxam
3
4
7
-->
@ludofl3x
So your big concern is that if a transgender person murders someone, and their DNA is present, and they provide a DNA sample while wearing the clothing of the opposite (non-birth) gender, then what, case dismissed? This is why we should tell high school kids if they need to go by he or she? You're just looking out for the victims of murder by transgendered people whose wigs and fake breasts can fool DNA analysis?
.......Do you know about gender reassignment surgery, and the push to be able to change your gender on legal documents?


TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 3,495
3
4
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
4
10
-->
@YouFound_Lxam
Well do you want the actual definition of the word Dakota, or the deffinition of the two states of Dakota. 
Isn’t it the same thing?  The definition of the Dakotas are North Dakota and South Dakota.  There is the tribe Dakota, but that’s not the definition people think of when they think of the Dakotas.

It's the same thing as saying:
Define states for me.
I could name off all the states and it would be valid.
But if you were to ask me what is a state, then I would have to provide a more detailed deffinition.
That’s a good point.  I’ll have to think about it.
YouFound_Lxam
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
Debates: 32
Posts: 2,125
3
4
7
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
YouFound_Lxam
3
4
7
-->
@TheUnderdog
Isn’t it the same thing?  The definition of the Dakotas are North Dakota and South Dakota.  There is the tribe Dakota, but that’s not the definition people think of when they think of the Dakotas.
The word Dakota, in the dictionary, means:
"a former territory of the US that was organized in 1889 into the states of North Dakota and South Dakota."

Or 

"Native American. From the Native American Dakota language, meaning "friend" or "ally". Also, the name of two States in the US, North Dakota and South Dakota."

RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 569
Posts: 19,930
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@ludofl3x
Yeah, you kinda lost me here. I'm not sure why you think the second sentence is the case, but you're entitled to your opinion. I don't really even understand what it means. 
The justification for transgender people to transition and be considered full, valid members of their chosen gender is that they say they were too feminine to be a man or too masculine to be a woman and that this is their true self.

The queer thesis is that no matter how superficiaily unusual a woman or man acts for their birth-assigned-gender, they are fully valid members of that unless they prefer a they/them identity at most.

Which part confuses you or are you confused how one is the antithesis of the other?
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 3,495
3
4
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
4
10
-->
@YouFound_Lxam
Fair point.  I think my views on Transgenderism have changed because of this.
ludofl3x
ludofl3x's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,015
3
2
2
ludofl3x's avatar
ludofl3x
3
2
2
-->
@RationalMadman
Which part confuses you or are you confused how one is the antithesis of the other?
How they're mutually exclusive isn't clear to me. 
ludofl3x
ludofl3x's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,015
3
2
2
ludofl3x's avatar
ludofl3x
3
2
2
-->
@YouFound_Lxam
So your big concern is that if a transgender person murders someone, and their DNA is present, and they provide a DNA sample while wearing the clothing of the opposite (non-birth) gender, then what, case dismissed? This is why we should tell high school kids if they need to go by he or she? You're just looking out for the victims of murder by transgendered people whose wigs and fake breasts can fool DNA analysis?
.......Do you know about gender reassignment surgery, and the push to be able to change your gender on legal documents?
I'm aware that such a thing as gender reassignment surgeries exist. I'm unaware of a "push" (by whom?) to be able to change your gender on legal documents, but again not sure how having a dick would be of great import on any of these documents. For example, it might shock you to learn that when you get pulled over for speeding, the police officer is not going to say "License says male, let me see your dick, otherwise I have to let you go because [whatever you're worried about]." How does what someone else has on their license or on their medical records in ANY WAY affect your personal life at all? Let me help with your response: "I don't want transgender people to be able to choose the gender on their license because if they do, then I _______________  ______________ ____________." What is in the blank space that happens to you?

What does gender reassignment surgery have to do with your concern over precious precious language? 
YouFound_Lxam
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
Debates: 32
Posts: 2,125
3
4
7
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
YouFound_Lxam
3
4
7
-->
@ludofl3x
I'm aware that such a thing as gender reassignment surgeries exist. I'm unaware of a "push" (by whom?) to be able to change your gender on legal documents, but again not sure how having a dick would be of great import on any of these documents.
It's not just "having" a penis. It's a lot more than that. 
It changes your hormone levels, it takes chunks of meat off of your body, it removes organs, etc. 

If someone can change, there literal biological sex on paper (not in reality because that it biologically impossible) then thousands of criminals would be getting away with crimes, and if someone comes into the emergency room, and their papers say male, but they are actually female, it's going to give the doctors a harder time to help with them (and doctors are already stressed out enough as it is).

So, yea, the truth is pretty important when it comes to your legal documents. 

What does gender reassignment surgery have to do with your concern over precious precious language? 
Well, if the Trans movement is trying to change their gender surgically, and hormonally, then that would have to change language as well, and as we all know, when you try to twist basic English grammar, or any other languages grammar, it doesn't work out that well. Think about how changing grammar could affect court systems and school systems. It's something that we don't need and would confuse a lot of people even more in their very busy day-to-day lives. 

I know your entitled self wouldn't understand, because all you do is sit around and watch CNN all day, so you can afford to change the entire way you live your day to day live, but the rest of us have, jobs, families, school, and futures to look forward to, and we don't have time to sit around all day, worried about misgendering people. 

How does what someone else has on their license or on their medical records in ANY WAY affect your personal life at all?
Like I said before, it could lead to more murders, and more deaths, so yea that affects my personal life. 
ludofl3x
ludofl3x's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,015
3
2
2
ludofl3x's avatar
ludofl3x
3
2
2
-->
@YouFound_Lxam
I'm aware that such a thing as gender reassignment surgeries exist. I'm unaware of a "push" (by whom?) to be able to change your gender on legal documents, but again not sure how having a dick would be of great import on any of these documents.
It's not just "having" a penis. It's a lot more than that. 
It changes your hormone levels, it takes chunks of meat off of your body, it removes organs, etc. 

If someone can change, there literal biological sex on paper (not in reality because that it biologically impossible) then thousands of criminals would be getting away with crimes, and if someone comes into the emergency room, and their papers say male, but they are actually female, it's going to give the doctors a harder time to help with them (and doctors are already stressed out enough as it is).

So, yea, the truth is pretty important when it comes to your legal documents. 
I know what gender reassignment surgery is, I'm just not sure what your objection is to it. I'd make a guess but even for me, it'd be way to straw-y a straw man. 

Your concern is that if someone goes into the emergency room, like from a car accident or with a broken arm, that a doctor will not be able to administer care because of a box ticked on the form that doesn't match the person's genitals? 

Can you give me an actual example of what is at risk if you decide you want to tick "F" instead of "M" on any form? 

Well, if the Trans movement is trying to change their gender surgically, and hormonally, then that would have to change language as well, and as we all know, when you try to twist basic English grammar, or any other languages grammar, it doesn't work out that well. Think about how changing grammar could affect court systems and school systems. It's something that we don't need and would confuse a lot of people even more in their very busy day-to-day lives. 
I HAVE been thinking about it and cannot for the life of me come up with an example where society unravels based on this concern. THat's why I've repeatedly asked you to tell me what YOU think will happen. So far, four times now, your only response is "think about it! Wouldn't it be weird!" My point is that language changes all the time, that words have tons of different meanings, and whether or not someone has a dick or a pussy in their pants is really not my business, so it doesn't have any affect on my day. And it doesn't have any on yours either, it's just something to complain about. Unless of course you can point out how your concern is valid, but so far it's like "It'd be confusing!" but no real reason. I'll ask the question again:

If we decide that people can identify their own gender rather than strictly stick with genital configuration, how does that affect your day to day life in a practical way? You started out by saying "language," to which I pointed that there are 7000 different words for "woman" already and we manage to function globally as a species. I also asked what happens if we decide that woman is a word someone applies to themselves, and you say "Look at that woman over there, she's wearing an interesting jacket," would someone in your life suddenly be so confused that they had no idea what you were saying. You didn't answer.

Once you jumped away from language, you went to surgery risks...which has nothing to do with the word woman, and is not in any way distinct from elective surgeries in general, all surgeries have risks.  I'm still waiting for how anyone getting a sex change operation somehow compromises national security. 

I know your entitled self wouldn't understand, because all you do is sit around and watch CNN all day, so you can afford to change the entire way you live your day to day live, but the rest of us have, jobs, families, school, and futures to look forward to, and we don't have time to sit around all day, worried about misgendering people. 
Awful rich for a teenager who still lives with his parents to call anyone they don't know on the internet "entitled." WHAT on earth would require me to change the "entire way" I live my day to day life? This subject literally has never impacted my life other than the two times someone said "It's actually he," to which I said "Oh, sorry, no problem!" and we all went about our lives. You have started almost every topic on the matter here, mister high school student, kinda sounds to me like you are the one sitting around all day worrying about it. 

How does what someone else has on their license or on their medical records in ANY WAY affect your personal life at all?
Like I said before, it could lead to more murders, and more deaths, so yea that affects my personal life. 
So your answer to the "M or F on the drivers license" is really "IT COULD LEAD TO MORE MURDERS AND DEATH"? Really? How? 
Melcharaz
Melcharaz's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 780
2
5
8
Melcharaz's avatar
Melcharaz
2
5
8
-->
@TheUnderdog
correct me if i am wrong please, but it sounds to me that you are disagreeing with the labeling on the grounds of semantics? or do you simply reject the idea that trans women and cis women are seperate?
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 3,495
3
4
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
4
10
-->
@Melcharaz
or do you simply reject the idea that trans women and cis women are seperate?
I think transwomen and cis women are seperate.
Melcharaz
Melcharaz's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 780
2
5
8
Melcharaz's avatar
Melcharaz
2
5
8
-->
@TheUnderdog
I think transwomen and cis women are seperate.
In what way do you think they are seperate?
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 3,495
3
4
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
4
10
-->
@Melcharaz
In what way do you think they are seperate?
Chromosomes.  Transwomen have a Y chromosome and ciswomen don’t.
Melcharaz
Melcharaz's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 780
2
5
8
Melcharaz's avatar
Melcharaz
2
5
8
Chromosomes.  Transwomen have a Y chromosome and ciswomen don’t.
Do you see them both as women? How do you define a woman?