Morality is Objective.

Author: YouFound_Lxam

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@secularmerlin
Humans. 

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@YouFound_Lxam
So in theory if only lions existed then would there then still be any morals?

Truly only lions. Like lions and nothing else in the entire universe or any other reality. This is a thought experiment. Imagine a universe where nothing exists that is subject to morality whatever.

Now describe morality in that universe. Go!
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@secularmerlin
So in theory if only lions existed then would there then still be any morals?
Nope. 

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@YouFound_Lxam
So in theory if only lions existed then would there then still be any morals?
Nope. 
So what your saying is that morality is dependent upon sone moral agent to have a moral opinion?

Then it subjective. Case closed.
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@secularmerlin
That's an intriguing perspective and it was well stated. Usually, I ponder the question of how humans continuously discover or propose new moralities as our civilization progresses. I wonder whether these new morals are true or false. If they are true, it raises the question of whether there are infinite morals yet to be discovered in the future. Hypothetically civilization could endure indefinitely and there could be an infinite number of morals unearthed between now and then, and all of them would be true.

On the other hand, if some morals are not always true, I inquire about the standard by which they are measured. Some people may point to religion or personal beliefs, but I then wonder if their mental development has been entirely influenced by their culture and surroundings. Even if the source is religion, it still bears the influence of their cultural context.

Regardless, psychology teaches us that our minds learn based on external input, and our adaptation to this input is our own. However, what we receive shapes our beliefs, albeit with our own individual twist or interpretation. In essence, the root of morality appears to be subjective, stemming from either conscious or unconscious cultural indoctrination.

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@Critical-Tim
The root of morality is almost certainly evolutionary longevity. No human is an island. Those groups which were internally cohesive outcompeted others. The puddle is always shaped exactly like the hole. I am not in general in awe of this phenomenon. 
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@secularmerlin
I completely agree with you. Recently, I engaged in a discussion that revolved around the influence of religion on the success of different cultures. During this conversation, it became clear that a society's moral structure, closely tied to its religion, is a highly accurate determinant of its productivity and power. Upon reflection, it seems self-evident, as the unity within a society is a crucial factor in determining its overall strength. A nation that lacks unity is prone to chaos, so to wield power, unity is essential.
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@Critical-Tim
Also never underestimate the evolutionary longevity a social paradigm has when willing to convert by the sword. 
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@secularmerlin
Absolutely, it's a matter of society falling into its own unity. As you pointed out if it is forced it will not receive the ideology well. Perhaps by allowing things to go unsuccessful society would be unsatisfied with what it has and would then motivate it towards seeking a different societal structure which would then set the stage for willingness for improvement.
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@Critical-Tim
Actual conversion by force is impossible of course but conversion by the sword does have the side effect of leaving everyone who disagrees vocally dead. This does tend to lead to generational conversion which is far more effective as children are very impressionable and a lack of dissenting voices has a big impression. 
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@secularmerlin
How familiar are you with the concept of objectivity and subjectivity? I most commonly describe objective as being an attribute of the object and subjective as being an attribute of the perceiving subject. Is your understanding similar, and how do you think it pertains to the forum topic?
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@Critical-Tim
Subjective is anything that requires some subject's perspective to become true. Often you must adopt a subjective or better yet intersubjective perspective before you can discuss things objectively. We could have made any given length the bases for metric units but it is objectively true that there is only one length that we decided would be a meter which is exactly what makes it useful. Once we agree on the intersubjective perspective of metric units of measure we can discuss how far away the post office is objectively. 
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@secularmerlin
I have learned something new today, thank you for sharing. Intersubjectivity and collective subjectivity are related concepts, but they are not exactly the same.

Intersubjectivity refers to the shared understanding or agreement between multiple individuals about a certain concept or phenomenon. It involves the recognition that different individuals may have different subjective experiences or perspectives, but they can still reach a common understanding or agreement through communication and interaction. In other words, intersubjectivity is the process of arriving at shared meaning and knowledge through social interactions.

On the other hand, collective subjectivity refers to the shared beliefs, values, and attitudes of a group of individuals. It is the idea that a group of people can collectively hold certain subjective views or interpretations that are specific to their shared identity, culture, or experiences. Collective subjectivity is often related to group norms and cultural perspectives that influence the way individuals perceive and interpret the world around them.

In summary, intersubjectivity is about reaching a shared understanding between individuals through communication, while collective subjectivity is about the shared beliefs and attitudes of a group of people based on their common experiences and cultural context. Both concepts involve shared perspectives, but they operate at different levels: intersubjectivity is about individuals reaching a common understanding, while collective subjectivity pertains to the shared beliefs and interpretations of a group.