Consciousness theory slammed as ‘pseudoscience’ — sparking uproar

Author: n8nrgim

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#31
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@zedvictor4
@FLRW
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We have consciousness due to the fact that life is made from atoms. It's time for a whole new theory of why the Universe exists in the first place.

FLRW, I agree. Complex consciousness is made from aggregate of ultra-micro { 10^ -36 } Gravity, Dark Energy >>>> subatomic >>>> atomic >>> chemistry ergo molecular interactions.

1} Most complex and less complex consciousness  ( * i * ) is created via dynamic synergy of biologic life and that access to Meta-space mind/intellect/concepts and ego sometimes is the resultant.

2} Our finite, occupied space Universe{ @ } is naught lost, nor created, only transformed.

3} transformation of Universe from the small @ in a cause and effect simple linear sequence is as follows

[email protected].........

....space.........(b).......space..........etc

.....space........(c)........space...........etc
#32
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And the DebateArt Albert Einstein Award for the most intelligent person on this site goes to..................................................EBUC !
#33
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@Sidewalker
For sure.

As in processing data.


I was referring more to the assumed connectivity of our condition.
#34
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@FLRW
And the DebateArt Albert Einstein Award for the most intelligent person on this site goes to..................................................EBUC !
Ha, thx for vote of confidence FLRW, however, all I really have to offer is the ability to read, semi-understand and semi-comprehend what ive read over the years.

If I had a truly Einsteinian ability  --ergo math abilities of mind educations etc--- I would be able to make some accurate physics predictions from my numerical and geometric explorations. That clearly has not happened, much as I may believe { 75% }, that, I'm on the correct path to discovering some fundamental aspects of Universe [ @ }.

As a child of 60's --ergo Outer Space, Apollo, Star Trek, Science fiction etc---  I certainly was inclined toward cosmic thinking scenarios. As ive presented before, at around 10 or 11 years of age, laying in a field with my two best friends, and looking at night sky, I stated, that, maybe we could be inside another very large humans body, that large person could be inside another even larger persons body etc so on and so on.

So one the brothers next to me slaps me in arm saying...why you thinking stuff like that ?.....I dont recall if I had an answer or replied to him at that time.

Coming across Bucky Fullers writings, certainly and greatly inflamed my cosmic thinking spirit { 4 primary kinds/types }. 

#35
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@FLRW
We have consciousness due to the fact that life is made from atoms.
Do rocks have consciousness due to the fact that rocks are made from atoms?
#36
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@Sidewalker
Do rocks have consciousness due to the fact that rocks are made from atoms?
All nervous system animals have consciousness from least complex nematodes to most complex humans.

If even less complex consciousness exists then we go the other direction... two-ness/other-ness <<<< sub-atomics ( ex 2 or 3 quarks } <<< atomics { hydrogen least complex } <<< molecular <<< viruses <<< single celluar organisms <<<< plants <<<<< fungi <<<< animals <<<< mammals <<< humans.
 
Memory is a significantly key ingredient to more complex consciousness. Do digital machines communicate with each other? Can digital machines smell, taste, hear, talk/sing? Yes

..." “In a pond, after the ripples pass, the water returns to its old level,” says David Garfinkle, a cosmologist at Oakland University in Michigan. You might imagine that after the gravitational wave has passed, the fabric of the universe returns to normal too. “But it doesn’t,” says Garfinkle. In fact, Albert Einstein’s general theory of relativity, which says that gravity results from mass warping space-time, predicts that gravitational waves should ever-so-subtly shift the structure of space-time in their wake. In other words, the universe remembers."...


#37
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@ebuc

Well stated.
#38
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Do rocks have consciousness due to the fact that rocks are made from atoms?
All nervous system animals have consciousness from least complex nematodes to most complex humans.
Consciousness extends beyond “nervoussystem animals”, the most rudimentary form of life is the prokaryote, a singlecell without a nucleus like bacteria. Bacteria can orient themselves and engagein purposeful behavior, they respond to a broad range of stimuli, demonstrateelementary forms of “memory”. They are sensate beings that not only“experience” things in their environment, but also respond to sensory inputs.They are extraordinarily perceptive, demonstrating elaborate behavioralresponses and adaptations to a wide range of environmental stimuli. They havecomplex signaling capabilities, show the ability to communicate, and changetheir behavior based on population size, and clearly demonstrates socialbehavior on at least a rudimentary level. They have been proven to have someform of memory and a rudimentary ability to learn, and the discriminatoryability to “choose” among alternatives. They clearly integrate thesecapabilities into a self-organized and sensate being that in at least anextremely attenuated way is perceiving, discriminating, remembering, and even“thinking”, on some level it is conscious.

If even less complex consciousness exists then we go the other direction... two-ness/other-ness <<<< sub-atomics ( ex 2 or 3 quarks } <<< atomics { hydrogen least complex } <<< molecular <<< viruses <<< single celluar organisms <<<< plants <<<<< fungi <<<< animals <<<< mammals <<< humans.
When we think of life in terms of discrete forms and species, we are only focusing on certain stages of the transformation process.  When we think in terms of continuous change moving toward the formation of more complex self-regulating wholes, the intermediate states fall into place as essential parts of the process. From the study of consciousness itself, it becomes clear that consciousness is not something that evolved with human beings, or with primates, mammals or any other particular degree of biological evolution. It has always existed. What emerged over the course of evolution were the various qualities and dimensions of conscious experience -- the contents of consciousness.

Seen in its entirety, seen the way evolution demands that we see it; there is a direction to life, it constantly progresses towards greater complexity and higher forms of sentience, from inanimate matter, to life, to thought, to self-reflective consciousness.

Memory is a significantly key ingredient to more complex consciousness.
Memory refers to the temporal aspectof being, consciousness necessarily implies a “self” that is aware via a singleunified conscious experience of the world that provides continuity of self overtime allowing the being to relate the continual stream of temporal experiences,recall antecedent experiences, and utilize the contents of experience todynamically interact with the environment in a purposeful way. 

Do digital machines communicate with each other? Can digital machines smell, taste, hear, talk/sing? Yes
No

..." “In a pond, after the ripples pass, the water returns to its old level,” says David Garfinkle, a cosmologist at Oakland University in Michigan. You might imagine that after the gravitational wave has passed, the fabric of the universe returns to normal too. “But it doesn’t,” says Garfinkle. In fact, Albert Einstein’s general theory of relativity, which says that gravity results from mass warping space-time, predicts that gravitational waves should ever-so-subtly shift the structure of space-time in their wake. In other words, the universe remembers."...

If you look at the mass of a thing “in and of itself”, you find  that it has no mass in and of itself, the thing has no independent existence when it comes to mass. The mass off an object is determined by its relationship to the rest of the mass in the universe, its mass is a function of the distribution of the rest of the mass in the universe. If a star reaches the end of it’s life and explodes, distributing it’s mass across a large region of space, the mass of all objects in space changes, which is why the General Theory predicts gravity waves. Gravity waves are the physical manifestation of the whole reacting to the changed distribution of mass

Taken in its entirety, what we observe is one unfolding cosmic process of becoming, a universe in which entities of matter are increasing form and complexity in space and time, becoming increasingly aware of itself.  We are just an animal confronted by and pondering this vast and complex thing in transformation, who can see groups of connected realities but cannot truly and fully understand what they represent because we are an animal whose mind is still awakening. 

#39
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@Sidewalker
No

Yes, digital machines communicate and sense smell, hear, taste{?} and speak.

Gravity waves are the physical manifestation of the whole reacting to the changed distribution of mass
This is where I make a distinction between physical ---as occupied space mass of reality we can instrumentally detect quantise--- vs occupied space of Gravity and Dark Energy that we have not --and most likely never will--- detect directly i.e. quantise tho maybe{?} quantify---.

.....but cannot truly and fully understand what they represent because we are an animal whose mind is still awakening.

I disagree in so far as, human minds are not only the most awaken of all creatures, there is no further awakening that is possible i.e. having access to Meta-space mind/intellect/concepts and ego is the most awakened.

To clarify, our differrence seems to be in defining the word awakening.  We are maximally awaken i.e. most complex creatures, that we know to exist.  Gaining more knowledge about our environment { the Universe that includes us } is not more awakening, it is just more knowledge gained, and/or understood and the comprehened.

Awakened is the maximal unfolding that culminates with access the most complex aspects of Meta-space mind/intellect/concepts and ego....* i *

More knowledge comes with the ability to access Meta-space mathematical dimensions beyond 3D plus time and I argue is not more being awakened, only more knowledge, not some more awakened ability to know more.   The access to Meta-space ability is there with most humans.  Or as Bucky Fuller liked to say, we're all born geniuses and our conditioning takes us more or less in that direction what is labeled as genius. 

Math { counting } came before written word. Or so Fullers says there is evidence of. Did math come before picto-graphs is a differrent question. 




#40
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@ebuc
Awareness is likely to inform one that there is more than one of something and memory will allow one to remember this fact.

So it's likely that awareness and a memory of quantity occurred prior to a corresponding symbolic or pictorial account.

Though scratching rocks with rocks or earth with sticks was probably a very early practice.


#41
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@zedvictor4
Awareness is likely to inform one that there is more than one of something and memory will allow one to remember this fact.
Hi Zed, the  world wide cyclist from the misty northern island continent fogg-in-de-wane-de-marsh :--))

Awareness = two-ness = other-ness.  Mininmal  two-ness * * or as o o with a line-of-relationship that connects them in some way. Ex Gravity, and that line-of-realationship can be a straight line ------------ or sine-wave /\/\/ { more wave-linear ~~~ if you prefer } or full blown geodesic (o)(  )(  )(o) or as (*)( )( )(*)

So it's likely that awareness and a memory of quantity occurred prior to a corresponding symbolic or pictorial account.
yes, recreated visual image scratched onto any medium available.   Ex a bird  --v--   or a   fish >---> or a turtle  >(**)<

The recall with counting of how many they saw with their eyes (*..*)    
>(**)<
1 1 1
i.e.. 3 turtles

Though scratching rocks with rocks or earth with sticks was probably a very early practice.
The earliest  images  I was able to recall and then recreate in wet dirt was what we called round mudpies.  I had forgotten this old memory  til your above comments. Thx Zed