Peace For Our Time. The Republicans plan for the Ukraine.

Author: FLRW

Posts

Total: 16
FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 5,144
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8

Republicans want to give part of Ukraine to the Russians. This is very similar to 1938 when Chamberlain got an international agreement
 that Hitler should have the Sudetenland of  Czechoslovakia in exchange for Germany making no further demands for land in Europe.
Chamberlain said it was 'Peace for our time'. Hitler said he had 'No more territorial demands to make in Europe.
Six months later, in March 1939, German troops took over the rest of Czechoslovakia. Poland seemed to be the next most likely victim of Nazi aggression and Chamberlain made an agreement with the Poles to defend them in Germany invaded. Hitler did not think Britain would go to war over Poland, having failed to do so over Czechoslovakia. He sent his soldiers into Poland in September 1939. Two days later, Britain declared war on Germany.
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 270
Posts: 7,771
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
-->
@FLRW
Republicans want to give part of Ukraine to the Russians
So they want to reward the aggressor and punish the victim.
oromagi
oromagi's avatar
Debates: 117
Posts: 8,689
8
10
11
oromagi's avatar
oromagi
8
10
11
It is a lesson long understood by historians:  capitulation to an expansionist totalitarian is provocative.
ponikshiy
ponikshiy's avatar
Debates: 9
Posts: 604
3
3
6
ponikshiy's avatar
ponikshiy
3
3
6
This literally has zero affect on American. During the republican debates, I heard pence say that if the U.S. allows this than there is nothing stopping the Chinese from taking Taiwan, but seeing how neither thing has any effect on the United States,  I am not sure why the United States cares
Lemming
Lemming's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 3,205
4
4
10
Lemming's avatar
Lemming
4
4
10
-->
@ponikshiy
"First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."
—Martin Niemöller
ponikshiy
ponikshiy's avatar
Debates: 9
Posts: 604
3
3
6
ponikshiy's avatar
ponikshiy
3
3
6
-->
@Lemming
America is most powerful country on planet. They can sit back do nothing and nuke anybody that wrongs the. This quote is from a man who needed a collective unit to have power. America can stand on its own. Besides why are those 2 countries prioritized over the hundred other invasions every year?

Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 270
Posts: 7,771
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
-->
@ponikshiy
They can sit back do nothing
Or they can... you know... do whats right.

ponikshiy
ponikshiy's avatar
Debates: 9
Posts: 604
3
3
6
ponikshiy's avatar
ponikshiy
3
3
6
-->
@Best.Korea
I don't know that increasing the death toll and suffering of ukranians is the right thing
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 270
Posts: 7,771
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
-->
@ponikshiy
It has to be done to stop Putin's cleptocracy, and to stop the other guys who are into cleptocracies. Besides, Ukrainians agree that the best thing to do is to arm Ukraine to stop Putler and kick him out so Russians think twice next time before invading another country.
Since Putin is a corrupt dictator who seeks to expand his empire, the right thing to do is to stop him before he gets too much territory. People on his territory mostly suffer by not even having fair elections. They have to agree with whatever Putin wants. His enemies are also known to tragically die in car accidents or plane crash.
FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 5,144
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8
-->
@Best.Korea

Putin has 2 daughters he barely ever talks about, do you think one is ponikshiy?
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 270
Posts: 7,771
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
-->
@FLRW
Yes. She does sound like Putin.
Lemming
Lemming's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 3,205
4
4
10
Lemming's avatar
Lemming
4
4
10
-->
@ponikshiy
I'm not convinced Americas various forms of power make America invulnerable.

Nations fall eventually, nations change,
America 'could have a civil war again, though I'm not 'expecting one anytime soon.

If America became fractured and weak, better we have 'tried to encourage the world to be better, than worse.
. . .

Fair question, why these two countries are prioritized,
I don't know enough about world events, politics, military and so on, to have a good answer.

I'm not sure there are 'hundreds of invasions every year though?

ponikshiy
ponikshiy's avatar
Debates: 9
Posts: 604
3
3
6
ponikshiy's avatar
ponikshiy
3
3
6
-->
@Lemming
America 'could have a civil war again, though I'm not 'expecting one anytime soon.
That is unfortunate

If America became fractured and weak, better we have 'tried to encourage the world to be better, than worse.
.

I am not sure American word. I think you guys call it the Donesct region if Ukraine. Lots of separatists live there and they want to be russioan not ukranian. Why should hundreds of thousands of people die, trying to force those people to be ukranian? 


Lemming
Lemming's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 3,205
4
4
10
Lemming's avatar
Lemming
4
4
10
-->
@ponikshiy
I've heard not all those separatists are 'patriots, so much as mercenaries and Russian soldiers.

I've heard that many consider the 'elections held their by the Russian occupying forces, to be a sham.

Why should hundreds of thousands of people die, trying to force those people to be Russian? 
"During the dissolution of the Soviet Union, 83.9% of voters in Donetsk Oblast approved Ukraine's declaration of independence in the 1991 referendum.[8]"

So far as I know,
Russia lied, encouraged, supplied, led, declared war.
'Aggressor, instigator, escalator of the conflict.

ponikshiy
ponikshiy's avatar
Debates: 9
Posts: 604
3
3
6
ponikshiy's avatar
ponikshiy
3
3
6
-->
@Lemming
This all sounds like American conspiracy theory and my Russian sources disagree. Please supply a non Nato aligned news source with no skin in the game. 
Lemming
Lemming's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 3,205
4
4
10
Lemming's avatar
Lemming
4
4
10
-->
@ponikshiy
Unfortunately my research skills and use of the internet to gather information and sources are poor.
Certainly it's something for me to think on, make effort on to research from news sources more common to Russians.