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@Greyparrot
I could probably pull up a bunch of notrueScottsman fallacies if you want.
Feel free.
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@fauxlaw
Exactly, just like the rest of the country, a mix of Democrats and Republicans who will vote for presidential candidate of their choice. If one candidate gets more votes than the other, he should become president. Last election, Trump got 3 million votes less than Clinton, but Trump is president.All, a mix but varied in quantity of both.
Somehow, the math just doesn't work.
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@Alec
Your parents would have to prove you're incapable of handling your own affairs. If posting on Facebook or this forum is their evidence, then that would stand as evidence to place millions of people on conservatorship. Probably wouldn't make it to court.
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@EtrnlVw
Yes, both MDH2000 and I are asking you exactly the same questions to which you are not providing explanations. He has pointed out the appropriate logical fallacies you keep committing.We had the same problem with the other member in this thread lol. I feel the premise is solid and conclusive so I'm not sure why there is any confusion about it. Both of you keep asking how I associate processes with intelligence and I've made that pretty clear. It's not a complicated answer, it's simply a rational common sense judgement.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
best you can do is post that Trump said bad stuff with no tie to any direct outcome
Yes, I know you are ignoring what I've provided you.
do you deny there was and have been enough ventilators?
I just posted one article of which there are many that there aren't enough ventilators. You ignored it.
I can only conclude you're trolling.
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@Dr.Franklin
Yes, he does appear to be trolling me.
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@Greyparrot
You know, Democrats, people who vote Democratic, in the same way there are Republicans, you know, people who vote Republican.What kinds of democrats?
I'm not sure how much simpler I can make this for you.
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@fauxlaw
Did those states have just Democrats, just Republicans or a mixture of both?I've lived in a few states that even have multiple distinctive cultures
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
you are just blinded by hate.
You're blinded by willful ignorance.
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@Greyparrot
That's objectively a false statement. The cultural battle in the Democratic party is proof.
So, the Democratic party won't vote for a democratic candidate?
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@Singularity
Make it by popular vote so only the voice of large urban areas matter, that way the president is decided by places with really successful governments like Chicago Detroit or LA, and candidates only have to pander to those areas and can give the bird to everyone else.
Currently, Wyoming has four times the voting power over California, for example and it causes candidates to focus their campaigning disproportionately in a few swing states. This is even worse than what you propose.
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@Greyparrot
That wasn't even remotely what I was trying to explain to you. You're just tossing out red herrings.You are suggesting all democrats are monolithic, which clearly is not the case as you will soon discover when the Bernie Bros refuse to vote for Biden in 2020 by large swaths.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
"can you give one, just one example of gross negligence, even in your own words is fine because I'm just not seeing it"
That is absolutely shocking. Are you sure you read the definition I put of gross negligence? Do you actually know what it means?
Even, when Trump said that the virus would magically disappear by April was well beyond gross negligence, that should be impeachment material.
it's a whole lot of opinion
Lol. No, it's a whole lot of gross negligence.
I'm constantly asking you to point things out and for specifics yet you don't provide any, just opinion pieces
No, they're not opinion pieces. You seem to just want to dismiss everything out of hand and I'm getting tired of trying to get through to someone who can't see the forest for the trees.
The stockpile of ventilators was depleted, who makes up the number needed for the stockpile? when was it depleted and why? again, not one person who needed a ventilator went without one. (specific facts)
Funny how our version of facts is contrary to what's actually going on.
'Scotch tape and baling wire': How some hospitals and companies are responding to meet America's ventilator shortage.
This was written last year, did the government do anything? Yes, Trump fired all kinds of experts at the CDC and cut their funding. Again, gross negligence.
In a severe influenza pandemic, hospitals will likely experience serious and widespread shortages of patient pulmonary ventilators and of staff qualified to operate them. Deciding who will receive access to mechanical ventilation will often determine who lives and who dies.
Then, there's this serious piece of gross negligence when Trump decided this little gem, because Trump "had a feeling"
Trump Rejects New York’s Plea For Ventilators: ‘I Don’t Believe You Need’ That Many
I have a feeling that a lot of the numbers that are being said in some areas are just bigger than they’re going to be,” Trump told Fox News’ Sean Hannity
Of course, I expect you to just dismiss all this out of hand.
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@ILikePie5
This part from that Gallup poll was interesting to note.
Republicans became increasingly mistrustful of the media in 2016 when Trump was campaigning for president and was sharply critical of the media's coverage of him. Between 2015 and 2016, Republican trust in the mass media fell 18 points to its historical low of 14%, where it remained in 2017. Following a seven-point boost last year, it has returned to 15%. For their part, Democrats have consistently been more trusting of the media than Republicans but rallied around the press and became even more trusting when Trump took office in 2017.
I think that speaks volumes for when Trump started his campaign and was blurting out, "Fake News" whenever possible, and Republicans took notice, but for long, they eventually came back quite a bit. Seems Trumps bleating of "Fake News" was short lived.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
I outlined some of that in post #177. As well, there's more in those links I posted earlier, where some of it was copy and pasted by another member here.what, specifically do you see as gross negligence?
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
But, it was gross negligence, especially for a president.nothing I read in that post is gross negligence imo
Gross negligence is a conscious and voluntary disregard of the need to use reasonable care, which is likely to cause foreseeable grave injury or harm to persons, property, or both.
If we assume Trump's gross negligence was not conscious or voluntary, can we assume he's got mental disorders?
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@ILikePie5
That's a fair statement, I'm not sure who has better ratings, but I would have to ask if you think ratings is equivalent to valid reporting of news?And Sean Hannity has some of the highest ratings on television because he openly admits he supports Trump, whole garbage shows like Don Lemon’s claim they’re non-partisan but get garbage ratings.
As well, do you think it's appropriate for a president to say things like this?
“Don Lemon, the dumbest man on television (with terrible ratings!).”
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@ILikePie5
Have a look at the Pew article I linked for you, it shows the reasons why ratings are high or low for various networks.Both CNN and Fox engage in “lying” behavior. I’m not defending Fox, just saying it has better ratings.
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@ILikePie5
Uh you were the one who tagged me...
Exactly, it was in reference to this comment you made. I brought up some stats on peoples trust in the media, thought it would have been interesting for you to read considering you said "Majority of Americans"
"Let him be the champion of the media. Majority of Americans don’t trust it anyways"
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
Jan 21 - Feb 2 12 days, seems reasonablewhat are reasonable expectations in such an unknown situation and what role and responsibility do the states have?
That's a good question, let's have a look at what transpired and what role and responsibility do the states have.
The US government received its formal notification of the outbreak in China on January 3 – and for 70 “squandered” days after that, did little to prepare.
Part of that is China’s fault. The country’s government repeatedly covered up the threat of the virus until January 20, when it finally admitted human-to-human transmission was happening and moved towards locking down Wuhan.
But China cannot be blamed for the ineptitude that followed those initial days.
By mid-January, Mr Trump’s Health Secretary Alex Azar had started to mobilise officials in his department to deal with a potential outbreak. However, he failed to bring the issue to the attention of the person who mattered most – the President.
On January 22, the day after the first coronavirus case in the US was identified, CNBC asked Mr Trump whether he was worried about a pandemic.
“No, not at all,” he said.
“We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China, and we have it under control. It’s going to be just fine.”
In late January, White House officials were fixated on stopping infected people from travelling to the US from China. So fixated, in fact, that they barely discussed America’s dangerously depleted stockpile of ventilators and other personal protective equipment.
Their work culminated in a travel ban barring non-citizens who had recently been in China from entering the country.
Hundreds of thousands of people had already made the trip by that point. Still, Mr Trump told Fox News the ban had “pretty much shut it (the virus) down”.
Throughout February, officials dithered and argued behind the scenes while the President, in front of the cameras, continued to brush off the threat.
“We’re going down, not up. We’re going very substantially down, not up,” he claimed during a press conference on February 26, as cases within the US started to rise. He said there could be just “one or two” infected people in the near future.
There were 60 confirmed cases at that point. A month later, there were more than 10,000.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
For one thing, you can't dismiss me. For the other, try not being a hypocrite, then we might be able to have more productive discussions.fine you win, happy? you're dismissed, have a nice day.
Have a nice day.
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It is estimated approximately 138 million people voted in the 2016 elections. Around 3 million people more voted for Clinton over Trump. Yet, the electoral college got Trump the presidency. Surely, Republicans were all for the electoral college then, but if the situation went the other way, how many Republicans would be screaming for getting rid of the electoral college?
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@Greyparrot
If you say there are only Democrats in one state and only Republicans in another state, then you might have a valid point. However, there are Democrats and Republican in every state. Culture has squat to do with electing presidents, that is, unless one decides to vote based on their culture rather than the qualifications of the presidential candidates.States are unique cultural entities and not monolithic as some on the left pretend.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
Since this is a public forum, I have the right to expose nonsense like anyone else, your nonsense was thus exposed as such. You tried to do the same thing with me and now you're complaining when it comes back to haunt you?the post to which you are referring was not directed at you, n8nrgmi understood what I was saying, if he needed or wanted clarification he would have asked, we've talked many times before.
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@ILikePie5
people on Fox like Sean Hannity admit they’re conservative. Honesty goes a long way as shown by the ratings for each channel.
Sean Hannity:
Mar 9: “This [coronvirus preparation] is scaring the living hell out of people — I see it, again, as like, let’s bludgeon Trump with this new hoax.”
Mar 11: shows people going after toilet paper, captioning it "“coronavirus hysteria."
Finally one of Trump's advisers got through his many layers of conceit, self-interest and science denial and Trump realized that this could be bad. He said as much. Hannity was then in a tough position - how to reconcile that with what he already said? TDS to the rescue!
Mar 17: everyone should “take the following crucial precautions over the next couple of weeks. Do it why? Because we love our grandmothers, our grandfathers, our older moms and dads. They are the most vulnerable. They are the most at risk.” That's Hannity scaring the living hell out of people, something he had just condemned CNN for.
Mar 18: "By the way, this program has always taken the coronavirus seriously. We’ve never called the virus a hoax.”
Unfortunately for Hannity, the Internet captures things he's said in the past, and so his lies were exposed.
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@ILikePie5
Uh, did you see who and what comment I was responding? Try reading and comprehending before you post.How is this related to Fauci or the media lying? Fauci has clearly established that Trump agreed to do what he and the officials wanted the first time they went to him. So do you still agree with the media that Trump didn’t act fast enough? If you do blame the experts for not coming earlier.
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@ILikePie5
Again, we have no idea what happened, but we do know Trump has threatened and fired a lot of staff over his term so it would stand to reason he might have threatened Fauci. If that comes out, we'll then see. Until anything can be established, it's all speculation.Fauci clearly said the first time he and the officials went the President agree. Did Trump pull him aside and threaten to fire him? Fauci has said no: he voluntarily says what he says. So is Fauci lying or is the media lying. Dates really don’t matter here. And the burden of proof is on you to prove that Trump threatened to fire him, otherwise it’s just a conspiracy theory.
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@ILikePie5
Let him be the champion of the media. Majority of Americans don’t trust it anyways
Have a look at this article, very interesting read.
These questions allowed us to measure things a few different ways. For example, we could examine trust gaps between different groups of people for different news outlets. We found that CNN is trusted by 70% of self-described liberal Democrats, but only 16% of conservative Republicans – a gap of 54 percentage points. Conversely, Fox News is trusted by 75% of conservative Republicans but only 12% of liberal Democrats – a 63-point gap.
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@Greyparrot
You don't really need to explain why you Support China and support the WHO.That you admit it is enough.
How does lying about what I say or didn't say help your argument?
I don't support the Chinese Communist Government and how they handled the situation from the get go. I support the WHO because they are doing their best with a worldwide pandemic on their hands and governments who may or may not accommodate their requests in a timely manner. If you believe you can do a better job, please do try. But, don't sit there tossing out fabricated lies or conspiracy theories because you have nothing else to offer. Thanks.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
Dissing sources is not an argument. I could do the same thing rather than go through an article and pick out the flaws. You won't even bother to go through articles put in front of you.it was a vox link he used, so there's that, and the typical no named expert ghosts, but hey that's what passes as "facts" to some people.
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@ILikePie5
When a timeline can be established of exactly when that took place, we can then establish who was lying. If Fauci was lying, I have no problem admitting to that. Trump could very well have pulled Fauci aside and told him he'd be fired if he didn't say that, we just don't know what happened yet, and hopefully it will all come out in the wash.So I’ll ask you once again. Is Fauci lying when he said Trump listened to the advice of experts?
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
Lol. And you said I was evasive. But, I understand why you can't defend your words. Who could defend something so ridiculous?well he said it best and knows far more than I, so read it.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
Suffering from tds must be hell, my thoughts and prayers.
Resorting to ad homs now?
I don't understand why he's so evasive
Lying doesn't help your argument.
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@ILikePie5
He’s been ghosting me cause we got him cornered.
Uh, no I haven't been ghosting you and no you don't have me cornered. Please grow up.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
Fauci gave no date as to when that happened and when pressed by a reporter, he said he didn't remember. That could have easily been well after Trump bungled.what he says is inconsistent with your post, so did he ignore them or not, based on the video Fauci makes it clear when he and the other doc suggested something Trump acted immediately, so which is it?
I acknowledged several times that Trump says bad things, talks bad, grossly exaggerates blah blah blah you have not shown any connection between that and any adverse outcomes related to covid.
Except for what I provided in all those links, some of which were posted to you, which you promptly ignored.
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@ILikePie5
No, I didn't.You’re citing evidence that directly contradict Fauci and Birx
Dr. Fauci: "If Trump had acted earlier, lives could have “obviously” been saved"
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@ILikePie5
Fauci has been asked the question in the past too and he said the same thing. But you and media think he’s lying right ?
Where do you get the ridiculous idea I think he's lying?
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
I was responding to your post, not post #6. Your post bordered on the absurd.see post #6
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@Greyparrot
From the link you provided:
"Fending off criticism that he made the appreciative remarks just to save China “face”, Tedros insisted that China “doesn’t need to be asked to be praised” for its efforts to contain the spread of the virus.
“China has done many good things to slow down the virus,” Tedros said. “The whole world can judge. There is no spinning here.”
Tedros added that his comments were not merely personal, but that they represented the view of the WHO.
He said one British board member of the agency characterised the Chinese decision to lock down Wuhan, a city of 11 million, as “heroic”.
The rest of your post was lifted from "The Hill" by a couple of political science profs. The paper itself stated the views of those guys were not that of the paper.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
Why is he a liar? Your video was from yesterday, not months ago when Trump was bungling. We need to listen to Fauci, not Trump.lol so Fauci is a liar?
you made the accusation/claim the burden is yours not mine.
I provided you plenty of information to go over but you decided to dismiss it out of hand.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
Lol. I've never heard of an election where each person has the right to vote as mob rules. It's called a majority, you know, the majority of people who vote for a president?If it were mob rules
There are reason the electoral college exists and why it should.
Yes, so that it gives Wyoming four times the voting power over California, for example and it causes candidates to focus their campaigning disproportionately in a few swing states.
If it were mob rules then California and New York would always pick the president
No, Americans would always pick the president. It doesn't matter what state they reside.
If the population was evenly distributed over the U.S.
What in the world does that have to do with anything? The population could all be centered in one tiny area and still each person would have a vote.
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@RoderickSpode
Like I said, if any fraudulent evangelist admitted to being an atheist, their scam is over.
If they don't admit it, can they keep scamming people?
And like I also said, I'm not claiming all fraudulent evangelists are atheists. We don't know unless they confess it. Right?
Maybe they're all frauds and we'll see how many are atheists.
Now, if his parents put him up to the fraud, and he was himself was an atheist, then it's possible his parents were atheists.....(Pause before continuing the sentence. This is going to be very tough for you to admit)....right? I'm not saying they were atheists because there's no record of a confession. But there certainly is an obvious chance they were.
Can you find any other atheists that have intentionally gone out as evangelical to run scams?
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@Greyparrot
Trump closed the borders Jan 31
On Jan. 31, the Trump administration announced travel restrictions for China.
Trump is correct that the World Health Organization organization didn't support his travel restrictions with China -- the WHO opposes most international travel restrictions and sees them as ineffectual -- but he overstated the case when he insinuated that the WHO downplayed the virus.
The WHO was misleading people by suggesting the world was equally at risk
Trump overstates when he insinuates that the WHO knew about the global threat the virus posed, but downplayed it. The WHO defines an emergency of international concern as "an extraordinary event" that constitutes a "public health risk to other States through the international spread of disease" and "to potentially require a coordinated international response," meaning that the organization recognized that the virus posed an international threat beyond China.
WHO has done nothing but praise China
That's just a blatant fabrication.
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It's official, Trump has pulled funding for the WHO. He is blaming them for his own blunderings.
WHO started sounding the alarm on the outbreak of a new coronavirus in China, in mid-January, designating the now Covid-19 pandemic as a global health emergency on Jan. 30 when there were just 8,200 cases in 18 countries across the world.
The WHO’s global emergency declaration on Jan. 30 was nearly a month before Trump tweeted that “The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA” and six weeks before he declared a national emergency on March 13.
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@Vader
If people were thinking about signing up here, but then started to read his posts, there's a good chance they changed their minds.his intentions weren't bad for the site.
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His family put him up to the fraud, they were 3 generations of evangelists. Just because this guy admitted to being an atheist, doesn't mean any of them are.I'm not by any means claiming all evangelist con-artists are atheists. It would stand for reason though, that MG is not the only one. Once he fessed up, he could no longer do his con routine. If any evangelist con-artist were to fess up, their con would be over. Do you have any reason to think otherwise?
"Audiences believed Marjoe was a "miracle child" receiving sermons from God while sleeping — in reality he carefully memorised his sermons under harsh discipline.[1] His mother would suffocate him under a pillow or water faucet if he failed to perform satisfactorily (she chose these methods specifically because they left no visible marks"
The minister admitting to lying felt strong enough about his convictions in relationship to God to confess to lying at times. Certainly not to con people out of their money
What do they need collection plates for if not to take your money? Why does God need money?
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
how does that relate to the actual handling of covid?
Why not educate yourself? Catch up on the last 4 months of current events and you'll see for yourself.
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@ILikePie5
It’s pretty funny actually. Trump did what his advisers told him to. If you blame Trump for our problems maybe you should blame these “advisers”
A new investigation reveals Trump ignored experts on Covid-19 for months
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@ILikePie5
He's starting to listen to them, but he didn't before when he was saying things like the virus will disappear on it's own in April like magic or when he wanted to open the country by Easter. That definitely isn't advice any sane health official would offer.Do you agree that Trump listened to health officials like Fauci and Birx? If so then all his actions were based on that advice.
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@Vader
In many cases that may be true, but it isn't on a public forum. That's why there are moderators, they enforce the rules. There are lots of public forums and they all make their own rules. Most have similar rules when it comes to how problems are dealt with and they almost always are dealt with by moderators or administrators. The core members are never allowed to deal with it themselves. That was Ethang5 mistake. He decided the rules didn't apply to him.when you think people are doing something wrong, you call them out on it.
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