If you'd like to argue about the merits of religion itself we can do that another time. The argument at hand is whether or not an ethical system can hold objective reasoning for the nature of actions within its system, if that system is built upon pragmatism, and not given by God.
No according to my logic Christians (and all who subscribe to judeochristian ethics) were given an ethical system by God. They by nature did not choose their morality, it is just an inherent law of the universe, which is the crux of my argument.
In a way it is both. My point is that I believe that our societal notion of objective/true good and evil, in a vacuum, comes from our notion of God the infallible passing down morality to us, as we a humans can have no bearing on the objective moral nature of our actions in the grander scheme of the universe. So in short, I am already presupposing that our moral system is objective, but that is because as a societal foundation we have biblical morality (from God) deeply rooted in us, even if individuals of us may be atheists. The question itself is how an objective moral standard could exist without God, and if you like, what such a system might look like.
Also, just so there's no confusion, although our positions still stand, I changed my side to Pro and your side to Con, just so that there won't be any more possible gripes someone might take with how I set up the positions.
Yes that is an example of pragmatism.
If you'd like to argue about the merits of religion itself we can do that another time. The argument at hand is whether or not an ethical system can hold objective reasoning for the nature of actions within its system, if that system is built upon pragmatism, and not given by God.
No according to my logic Christians (and all who subscribe to judeochristian ethics) were given an ethical system by God. They by nature did not choose their morality, it is just an inherent law of the universe, which is the crux of my argument.
That does not mean morality is subjective, that means different cultures choose to behave in different ways.
Because not all cultures have the Bible.
Lol are you reporting votes to the admins
In a way it is both. My point is that I believe that our societal notion of objective/true good and evil, in a vacuum, comes from our notion of God the infallible passing down morality to us, as we a humans can have no bearing on the objective moral nature of our actions in the grander scheme of the universe. So in short, I am already presupposing that our moral system is objective, but that is because as a societal foundation we have biblical morality (from God) deeply rooted in us, even if individuals of us may be atheists. The question itself is how an objective moral standard could exist without God, and if you like, what such a system might look like.
Also, just so there's no confusion, although our positions still stand, I changed my side to Pro and your side to Con, just so that there won't be any more possible gripes someone might take with how I set up the positions.
No worries take your time. Just happy to be debating such an interesting topic.
sounds good, I'll create the debate and challenge you.