CatholicApologetics

Oh, that's my bad. I didn't realize that's what you meant by "I'd like to ask the rest of you to refrain from claiming until then." That's on me, I apologize.

I am the Class Bully, the other kids are afraid and won't go near me. As a result, I am a Paranoid Gun Owner. If anybody tries to visit me throughout the night, they will be killed (apart from the Mafia).

Hello, I've played a similar game before, so I believe I can keep up.

Of course, this is a huge conspiracy that has no concrete support apart from speculation. This is just a remark, not an accusation.

Alright, it seems fun. I'll participate.

How is the game going to work?

I had assumed we were initially talking about the message of the Bible. I later had a suspicion that we were not talking about the same thing, so I made an attempt to clarify [1]. Since then, I have accommodated my response to answer your question [2] [3] [4], which was not about the message but about the literal text of the Bible. I thought I was articulating my responses in a manner which was easy to understand. I initially thought we were on the same page in regards to what the question entails but I suppose we were not. Ultimately I answered two different questions for your understanding. I hope this clears up the miscommunication once and for all.

As for the title of your threat, Validity of the Bible, once again I would assume you are talking about its message. The question "Is the Bible true or false?" rephrased as "Is what the Bible claims, like the resurrection, true or false?" seems pretty logical to me so I assumed we were talking about the message. I apologize if I understood this incorrectly.

I'd say it's up for interpretation. For example, the Bible teaches that all born with original sin have sinned, so you can interpret our sinful nature as a rejection from God. Because everyone has sinned, then everyone has rejected God in one form or another.

This is only one interpretation. I'd recommend reading the Bible, starting with the Gospels.

I have remained steadfast in the beliefs I have been trying to communicate with you. I guess we had a different understanding of the question, but not once have I changed by opinion. Which remains: I believe the Bible is God's Word, and humans have not corrupted the salvific message. On the surface level, which was not the question I was initially attempting to answer, there are elements you can consider to be human flaws (such as grammatical mistakes).

Wylted, I was not originally going to respond to your argument, but I feel like I have to respond to the following:

Hell is fundamentally the state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed. This separation is the most profound suffering, as it is the ultimate loss of the beatific vision and the presence of God, who is the source of all goodness and joy. Descriptions of hell in the Bible often use vivid imagery, such as unquenchable fire (Mark 9:43), outer darkness (Matthew 25:30), and a place where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth (Matthew 13:42). Revelation 14:11 depicts hell as the eternal torment and unrest for those there. It definitely seems that there will be more pain and suffering in hell than there is on Earth. Catholic teaching holds that the suffering in hell is greater than any suffering experienced on Earth because it is eternal and involves the complete absence of God’s grace and love.

Because God is the source of all goodness and joy, separation from Him would mean to be excluded from happiness, peace, and love. The Bible certainly does not depict hell to be a peaceful place. It seems like there will be more suffering in hell than on Earth.

Do I believe that the scriptures teach that everybody rejects God? That's a great question. The scriptures teach us that all people are sinners and fall short of God's glory, but they do not teach that all people consciously or definitively reject God. The Bible presents a nuanced view of human sinfulness and the relationship between humanity and God. Passages such as Romans 3:23 tell us we have all sinned and fall short of God's perfect standards for heaven. In Acts 17:26-27, Paul acknowledges that people have the potential to seek God and find Him because He is near to everyone. The Bible also states God wants everyone to be saved (1 Timothy 2:4), and it would be rather cruel if there was no way to obtain this salvation.

While all people are affected by original sin and personal sin, this does not mean that everyone rejects God outright. The Church believes in the possibility of salvation for all and emphasizes that God’s grace is available to everyone. Through free will, individuals can accept or reject God’s grace, but the potential for repentance and conversion remains.

I guess I may have misunderstood the question then. If you ask me how much of the Bible on a literal and surface level, then I think there are many human flaws. However, those flaws do not translate to the corruption of the message. I believe the Bible is true, but it has also been written through humans, and thus it contains human elements and mistakes. But I do not believe that these human mistakes in the Bible invalidate its divine inspiration or authority.

I hope this answers the question once and for all.

Owen asked me how much of the Bible I believe is the Word of God, I answered. I have been talking about the Bible's message since the beginning.

There were many illiterate authors. Notably: Moses, Amos, and many of Jesus' apostles, such as Peter.

Letters attributed to Paul (who was literate), like those to the Corinthians or Ephesians, contain spelling and grammatical differences in various manuscripts. For instance, the spelling of certain Greek words. 

The Bible, being the Word of God, is flawless and without fault. You keep asking the same question. I feel as if I have to tell you that since the beginning, I have not been talking about superficial things like grammatical mistakes. I'm sure, in his original question, Owen was asking me how much of the Bible I believed was the Word of God with the intent to focus on the message. Meaning by that, that he was asking me how much of the Bible's message was corrupted. The reason I say this is because before asking his question, Owen was primarily talking about things he deemed morally reprehensible (such as slavery and condemnation), relating to the Bible's message.

I believe the message conveyed in the Bible is pure and intact, and that it has not been corrupted by man. However, some of the authors of the Bible were illiterate and made spelling mistakes. These mistakes do not interfere with the overall message of the Scriptures. If you'd like I'd be more than happy to engage in a discussion with you in private messages.

Like I said, by saying the Bible is God's Word in its entirety, it implies there are no flaws by the workings of man. In other words, I do not think any part of the Bible is flawed by the workings of man, at least in the message it conveys.

The questions asks whether I think man has flawed the Bible, not whether they were involved in its creation. Hope this helps.

If the Bible is completely the Word of God it implies that there are no faults or flaws by the workings of man.

You have asked great questions. And though I would love to answer in as much detail as possible, for the sake of this post I will refrain from doing so. Rather, I will give a quick overview. Your concerns about certain elements in the Bible and aspects of Christian doctrine are shared by many people. I will try my best to answer.

When reading the Bible, or a Bible verse, it is extremely important to read in context. The Bible contains passages that, when taken out of their respective context, may appear sexist by modern standards. However, the Bible actually displays the opposite - a profound respect for women. In the New Testament, Jesus' interactions with women were revolutionary for His time. He spoke with women publicly, had female disciples, and appeared first to women after His resurrection (John 20:14-18). Early Church leaders like St. Paul also emphasized the equality of all believers in Christ (Galatians 3:28).

The Church teaches that the Bible contains different genres of literature, including historical narrative, poetry, allegory, and myth. The story of Noah's Ark, for instance, can be read as a theological and moral lesson about human sinfulness, divine judgment, and mercy, rather than a literal historical account.

The universe, "popping into existence," closely mirrors the Big Bang theory (which might have been obvious). The Big Bag theory was first proposed by Georges Lemaître, a Catholic priest and physicist. This scientific understanding of the universe having a beginning aligns with the theological concept of creation ex nihilo (creation out of nothing). The Church has long held that faith and reason are compatible. In fact, they were the primary driving source for scientific breakthroughs. They often funded many scientific thinkers and their projects. 

This is the main issue I wanted to clarify. God desires all people to be saved (1 Timothy 2:4) and extends His grace to everyone. However, human beings have free will to accept or reject God's love. The Church teaches that God judges people based on the knowledge and grace they have received. The concept of invincible ignorance acknowledges that those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ but seek the truth and do God's will as they understand it, can be saved (Lumen Gentium 16).

A common misunderstanding is that God sends people to hell. However, it is us who send ourselves to hell through our choices. A byproduct of our free will is the ability to make decisions, which can go against God's divine laws. When this occurs, we sin. For instance, God commands us not to lie (Exodus 20:16, Leviticus 19:11). If we deliberately lie, we have committed a sin. Everyone falls short of the Kingdom of Heaven in one way or another because because of our sinful nature (Romans 3:23).

The condition to enter heaven is perfection, a state of being sinless. However, Jesus Christ, in His perfect nature, came down from Heaven to undergo the penalty of sin (hell) for our sake. Through His sacrifice, we are offered redemption and the possibility of eternal life with God in Heaven.

To answer your question, the notion that someone born into a Muslim household is "sent" to hell is not accurate. The Church believes in God's universal salvific will, meaning He desires everyone to be saved. Salvation is accessible to all, no matter what household they are born in. Ultimately, God's judgment is just and merciful, taking into account each person’s circumstances and intentions. Thus, the idea of automatic damnation for someone based on their background does not align with the Church’s understanding of divine justice and mercy. Let me know if I understood your question correctly.

If you can give me any contradictions I will happily take them up.

I believe the Bible, in its entirety, is the Word of God.

There is no creative mechanism behind evolution. Something cannot come from nothing.