Total posts: 5,890
-->
@YouFound_Lxam
@TWS1405_2
If you wanted to understand my position on an issue, would you rather:
A) Watch a 2 hour long documentary, or
B) just have me explain my position?
This is of course rhetorical. No moron would choose A.
What I find especially ironic about this is that you are accusing me of being lazy because I won’t sit through your little documentary, which you are only providing because you are too lazy to just explain what you’re talking about and defend your position.
So let’s make this real simple, if don’t have time to write it then I don’t have to watch it. I’m only interested in interacting with people who are actually here to debate. Which makes sense given that this is a debate site.
Created:
-->
@TWS1405_2
That would be true. He talked to doctors, psychologists, psychiatrists, so on and so forth. None of them knew what they were talking about. Especially the ones that were trans themselves.Refusing to educate yourself accurately is the hallmark of ignorance and denialism.
This isn’t how one goes about educating themselves, that’s the point genius. If I decide to educate myself on what the MAGA base stands for, I’m not going to turn to Jordan Kleper’s videos of him talking to Trump supporters.
The ask I started this conversation off with was for examples of the “woke left” trying to normalize medically transitioning kids. You have yet to explain how your documentary addresses this claim.
Created:
-->
@TWS1405_2
Look up “what is a woman” by Matt Walsh. He gives plenty of examples. Same for his podcasts. A medical center that was focusing on transitioning kids shut that part of their business down due to his efforts and focused attention on their child abuse.
I have other things to do than to sit through Matt Walsh’s documentary. I read a quick review on it, apparently a big part of the film is him talking to people who don’t know what they’re talking about. Not exactly worthy of serious discussion. We can all make “the other side” look terrible by cherry picking the incoherent examples.
But more to the point, I was asking for examples of the “woke left” trying to make the medical transition of kids a “normality”. I’ve never heard of any prominent left wing figure nor any significant group push for any such thing. What I’ve seen is plenty of people support the rights of kids and their parents to be able to make their own medical choices, something that for some reason “small government” conservatives really hate.
Created:
-->
@thett3
Whites were 45% of violent crime arrests in 2018. Excluding assault, 39%. Black people were 33% and 36%.
Yet black people are only 13% of the population. I’m not sure how this proves your point.
For drug abuse crimes whites were 70% of arrests and blacks were 27%.
The raw data shows 1.234 million arrests for whites and 871k for blacks. I don’t see how that adds up to a 70/27 split.
The “whites use more drugs than blacks” thing doesn’t pass the smell test to me. I’ve seen those studies and they’re all reliant on self reported data, and black people are usually not stupid enough to answer that question honestly.
So, the data says it but you don’t believe the data because you just can’t see how it could be true that black people use drugs at the same rate as white people. Ok.
And what exactly does that mean, black people are not stupid enough to answer the question honestly? So white people are stupid?
But if it’s true it seems to be reflected in the statistics where the white percentage of violent crimes was lower than drug crimes. What exactly is the complaint here?
The complaint is that both groups do the same act at the same rate but one gets arrested for it at a much higher rate. The conclusion from that is impossible to deny, at least in this one respect.
I don’t know exactly what your point is here when it comes to the violent crime aspect of this. The example I gave was simple, your addition seems cherry picked just to obfuscate. We can do this all day. I could speculate that the reason white people get arrested more for violent crimes is because the majority of those are domestic violence disputes, which isn’t surprising because we all know white people are far more likely to call the cops in that situation.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@ILikePie5
You forget that there’s people out there that will only come out to vote for Donald Trump. There’s actually been a sort of political realignment in those terms.
I hope you’re right about that, because it assures a democrat wins in 2024. Trump will lose in a general, the rest of the country is turned off by him. And any other republican will need those voters to win.
As for my predictions, I’m least confident in AZ Senate. At face value, it seems that Democrats would be harmed because they need moderate Republicans (who will likely vote Sinema). It’s simply a numbers game. I’m interested to hear your thoughts
AZ will be very tough for democrats, but this latest stunt by Sinema I think will save herself politically. Right wingers cannot credibly paint her as an evil liberal coming for your guns and child’s genitals, and the democrats may not like her but will have realize that they need the seat and any other democrat will have a very tough uphill battle.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@ILikePie5
Biden was shown to be a massive hypocrite in front of the American people with his document scandal.
Only MAGA world cares about this.
If Trump is the nominee, pushing the documents scandal would be a gift to the democrats because all that will do is put the focus back on Trump being that he did the exact same thing except with far more documents plus lying to the FBI.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@thett3
Unfortunately as of right now I predict Donald Trump will win the republican nomination
Emphatically disagree. People are tired of Trump. He has nothing new to offer, all he cares about is airing his personal grievances, he goes after his own base for not being sufficiently loyal to him, and he has shown himself to be a proven loser who will take the rest of the party down with him.
He might still be leading in the polls, but his support has been on a steady incline and I think will come more into focus as we get closer to 2024 and people really start weighing their options.
I would bet right now on Ron Desantis being the nominee, but I don’t have a great deal of confidence in that. The guy is not charismatic at all and we all know that is a must have to get through the primaries. He’s also an extremist and there seems to be a push for more normal candidates, especially after 2022.
My next bet would be Nikki Hailey. As a leftist, that’s who I would probably least want to go up against. She’s likable, doesn’t come off as crazy, and being a woman also helps considering that’s a strong group for the democrats.
Created:
-->
@thett3
There really is a unique cultural pathology going on here. If people from your group raised in the top 1% with every advantage in the world are still committing more crimes than poor people from my group
The whole point of the statistic is to show that incarceration rates do not match to who is committing the crimes.
The statistics alone do not prove this, but we do know the most prominent reason people in general and particularly people of color are arrested is for drug use, especially marijuana. Yet we also know that white people use drugs just as often as people of color, yet it’s the people of color who are being arrested for it.
Your statement here a perfect example of the problem. If we know both groups are using drugs at the same rate yet one is far more likely to be arrested for it then there is a serious problem with biased law enforcement. Yet that biased law enforcement is itself creating a perception that one group commits more crimes, and that perception then feeds into law enforcement.
But when we argue systemic racism is a real thing know one knows what we’re talking about.
Created:
-->
@YouFound_Lxam
the woke left has and is trying to make the idea of medically transitioning kids (a non-reversable surgery that changes their entire life) a normality.
Can you please provide a few examples of this?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@ILikePie5
Obviously one of the clerks for a Democrat
How is that obvious? It is just as reasonable to presume it was a republican. There was a report that one of the justices who voted to overturn Roe was considering changing their mind and the leak was to pressure that individual to stick with their original position
Created:
-->
@TWS1405_2
Until you watch the entirety of the video…you’re comment is out of context and wholeheartedly unsubstantiated subjective opinion, not worth replying to at this point.
Translation: I have no intelligent response to offer so I'm just going to pretend I'm superior to you to make myself feel better and not look like an ass.
Perhaps this is the first debate site you've even been a part of so let me give you a TIP: if you want to communicate a point, especially to those who disagree with you, you actually need to type words. I know, crazy thought.
Created:
-->
@YouFound_Lxam
Have you not read a word of this thread? This has all been explained multiple times by multiple users. Dustryder has already explained much of the basics so I won't go into detail on too much of that, I'll just summarize, again.
Both men were found to have possession of classified documents which rightfully belonged to the US government.
That's where the similarities end.
The reason Trump is in serious legal jeapordy and facing severe political backlash over this is because he refused to turn over the documents and lied to federal investigators
- In May 2021 after receiving a subpoena for the documents he previously refused to turn over, Trump ordered the documents moved to a new location
- In June 2021 after an FBI visit in which some documents were confiscated, Trump's lawyer signed an affadavit claiming there were no more documents being held
None of this applies to Biden. His team learned of the documents, and without being asked, immediately contacted NARA and turned them over.
These are two completely different scenarios, and so they should be handled completely differently. If you look at the charges the DoJ is reportedly pursuing against Trump, they're all for lying and obstructing the investigation. None of the pending charges have anything to do with possession of classified documents.
And what makes this "Trump would have complied" excuse so absurd is that everything about Trump's actions tell us the opposite.
First, it wasn't a raid, it was an executed search warrant. Those are not the same thing, but Trump keeps lying and saying he was raided to further slander the FBI.
When the FBI confiscated the documents, Trump publicly claimed the FBI planted them.
Trump would then spend months claiming the documents were actually his personal property and sued to stop the FBI from even being able to look at them.
To claim these are the actions of a man who respects law enforcement and was ready and willing to comply is just flat out ridiculous. Trump's actions after the executed search warrant are, at least politically, just as terrible and newsworthy as anything he did before it.
And again, nothing even remotely similar to anything of this can be said about Biden. These two things are not the same.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@TheUnderdog
Yay, another anti-trans thread. Cause we have nothing better to worry about...
Created:
-->
@Greyparrot
Meanwhile, the hyper oil producing Russian people can get gasoline for mere pennies. What a global slap in the face.
I know right. How insane it is that the US along with most of the west decided not to fund Russia's genocide. Thanks a lot Joe.
Created:
-->
@TheUnderdog
Someone pulling out a calculator to figure out how much it would come to is entirely different from someone seriously proposing the amount be repaid.How so?
One is a calculation, the other is a proposal.
You are African American and socialist.
I'm neither an African American nor a socialist.
I'm Puerto Rican, and a barely tanned one at that.
Whether I'm a socialist depends on your definition. If you're talking about someone who believes in actual socialism then I'm not and neither is anyone else I know of. If you're talking about someone who believes in social programs facilitated by the government then I'm a socialist along with about 99% of the population, national and global.
You know what BLM is. It’s the Black Lives Matter movement that wants reperations.
I wasn't asking what the BLM movement was, I was asking you who the individuals you were referring to were when you invoked them behind the vague BLM banner, and why anyone should care what those individuals think being that they hold no elected office nor do they have any significant following.
Our economy is not built off of taxes.
That's just plain silly. The US government is the largest employer in the country and it's services impact every aspect of our economy. You can argue (without any evidence of course) that we would have been just as successful without a strong central government but you cannot argue or economy would be just the same without it. That's like arguing that the Patriots would have won just as many Superbowls without Tom Brady.
I’m not against taxation, but I relieze it’s theft.
Um. Ok.
Taxation is different from slavery. Nobody that was taxed got raped, whipped, or killed in the process of taxation. But what they have in common is it forces people to subsidize the living expenses of others without their consent.
This is like arguing that the guy who pushed an old lady to the ground for fun and the guy who pushed an old lady to the ground to move her out of the way of an oncoming bus are the same because they both pushed an old lady to the ground.
Created:
-->
@TWS1405_2
Mark Levin destroys the lefts narrative on the Biden Classified Documents SCANDAL!!!!!
Cut it off at the 3 minute mark after James Comer began spouting January 6th conspiracy theories immediately after admitting he had no evidence for them.
To that point the only argument made was 'every president takes classified documents home, only Trump was searched'. Even if this were a valid point, it has absolutely nothing to do with Trump's purposeful withholding and concealing the documents once informed they were too be given back. And it certainly does nothing to as aid the whataboutism tirade the political right is engaging in over this.
Perhaps you could, I don't know, explain what you actually mean? You know, type words and string them together to form sentences in a coherent way to communicate your thoughts so the rest of us can tell what you're talking about?
*Queue the "dUh yoUrE sTUpiD" reply*
Created:
-->
@TheUnderdog
Someone pulling out a calculator to figure out how much it would come to is entirely different from someone seriously proposing the amount be repaid. Also, who exactly is “BLM” and why should we care?
And no, Uncle Sam isn’t stealing from you. If you don’t want to pay taxes don’t get a job and participate in our economy which is built off of taxation.
And again, even if we want to call this theft it is still categorically different from slavery. Keep pretending otherwise all you want, it just makes you unserious.
Created:
-->
@TheUnderdog
The libetarians don’t want reperations from previously stolen funds; they just want the theft to stop.
If someone stole money from you I’m pretty sure you’d want it back. And if you died I’m pretty sure you would want it given to your children. That’s basic morality and common sense.
Socialists tend to want this weird combination, where they want to pay back the hundreds of trillions of dollars that was legally stolen 200 years ago but they also want to increase the theft that happens today from the top 1%. It’s totally inconsistent.
It’s not a weird combination, these are two completely different things.
First of all, hundreds of trillions of dollars? You could at least pretend to be serious.
Second, it’s more than just slavery, it’s also Jim Crowe and segregation.
Third, taxation is not theft. This is a silly comparison. And even if I granted that it’s theft (which I most certainly don’t) it’s categorically different from what we did during slavery.
There’s nothing inconsistent about any of this.
BTW, giving every black person hundreds of millions of dollars for slavery is very ideologue and would make every black person rich and every white person millions of dollars in debt, so it’s a nonstarter.
I don’t know why you’re telling me this because I already made clear I do not support reparations. I’m just responding because your portrayal of the extreme wokists who advocate for this is a caricature. If you’re going to argue against a position you could at least get it right.
I know of no one who thinks every black person should be given hundreds of millions of dollars, and even of someone out there is arguing this that certainly isn’t the view point of 99% of the people advocating for it. You’re just concocting a cartoonis version of the other side so you can knock it down and sound legitimate. All that does is make you look ignorant.
Created:
-->
@Greyparrot
What is analogous is suing someone who stole from you after they filed for bankruptcy, and when finding out he has no money, you then say his neighbor now owes you as some kind of accomplice.
That’s not analogous at all. Your analogy deals with individuals, we’re talking about the responsibility of society. The problem is that you don’t believe in the concept of society itself, which I always find remarkable. That’s like me telling you there’s no such thing as air as I’m breathing it.
Created:
-->
@IwantRooseveltagain
Really? Are you sure? What classification were they, Top Secret? Did Biden classify these documents? As VP he had the authority of original classification and declassification in such a case.
The documents Joe Biden was found to have weren’t classified, Obama de-classified them with his mind as he left the White House.
Created:
-->
@TWS1405_2
You being obtuse on purpose, or are you really truly that dense!?!
Another quality intellectual reply from TWS1405_2
Created:
-->
@ILikePie5
Please provide statutory law that says he cannot do that?
Please show me the rule that says the Dallas Cowboy’s kicker cannot be a donkey.
Like I said, this is the level of stupidity we have to bring ourselves down to to defend Donald Trump. No rational human being would accept the idea that Trump can declassify documents with his mind. And even if he could, Biden could re-classify them just the same, so once those documents were found in Mar-A-Lago, citizen Trump is in violation.
Two can play this silly little game.
Lmao do you seriously believe classified documents were planted by people in Biden’s garage and office at UPenn?
What I implied is that Biden didn’t move the documents from his VP office, where he was authorized to have them, to hoss private office himself so it’s conceivable they were moved by someone else who didn’t realize them. But we don’t know how they got there, that’s the point. We do with Trump, and you don’t give a damn about that.
Are you going to stop denying the fact that the Biden DoJ raided the private residence of his top political opponent when attorneys were cooperating with Justice Department officials?
The FBI subpoenaed those documents in May, and after receiving it Trump ordered the documents to be moved to a new location.
And in June 3rd where you are dishonestly trying to claim the FBI just showed up and said everything was fine if he just added some additional security, his own lawyer signed an affidavit claiming that the documents the FBI took that day was the last of the classified materials Trump was in possession of.
You’re either ignorant or just plain lying. Trump wasn’t cooperating. He even tried to argue that the documents were his and tried to sue to have them given back to him. He spent months trying to stop the DOJ from being able to see them.
There is no way you are being serious.
Neither do you. If you did you wouldn’t be having this double standard that Biden did nothing wrong because he didn’t know about.
I have made clear since the start of this thread that Biden has some very serious questions to answer but that my issue here is the brazen hypocrisy of yourself and others who has not a word to say when Trump was found to be hoarding literally hundreds of classified documents in his golf resort but all of a sudden take issue with Biden being found to have had any 12 documents in 3 different places. And that’s before we get to the rest of the story which once again, is the story here.
Neither Biden nor Trump were on the ballot anywhere this cycle and it is not the job of the DOJ to tell the public every time a public official does something unsettling. This is an incredibly silly point.Lol it just shows the political corruption plaguing the Justice Department.
No, it shows how partisanship warps people’s minds to the point where someone who actually understands how our institutions are supposed to work suddenly thinks it’s the job of the DOJ to put out a press release every time they learn that a public official did a no-no.
Created:
-->
@TheUnderdog
If that was the case…
If??? This isn’t a debatable contention. The labor was stolen.
Wealth can get created or destroyed. The South destroyed its wealth that it got from slavery.
Which is completely irrelevant to this issue and is frankly an asinine argument. Imagine me stealing $100 out of your wallet and when you tell me to give it back I say I no longer owe it to you because I blew it at the strip club.
Created:
-->
@TheUnderdog
I am against reparations, but this analogy is just silly.
The idea behind reparations (for most who favor it) is not about making up for the moral wrongs done to the people who were enslaved. It’s about recognizing that much of the wealth passed down for generations now was built off of stolen labor, so you may not be responsible and the prospective beneficiaries might not have suffered through it but if that stolen labor was compensated appropriately our society would probably look very different than it does today.
We live in a capitalist society where wealth begets wealth. There are always exceptions to every rule but if you step back and look at this from 30,000 feet it’s not an accident that the descendants and the overall community of the group that was enslaved for centuries and then flagrantly discriminated against for decades to follow are at the bottom of every economic and societal health indicator. We (as a nation) did that, so it falls upon us (as a nation) to do something to fix it.
Created:
-->
@YouFound_Lxam
Gender dysphoria and pedophelia have absolutely nothing to do with each other, so you have yet again demonstrated that what is really driving your position on these issues is pure bigotry against people who are different than you.
This is what the political right is about today.
Created:
-->
@Greyparrot
For some people, Biden can do no wrong.
Unlike the cult following Trump has, Biden supporters do not have a problem admitting his faults and when he screws up nor do they have any issue holding him accountable. The problem is that these conversations are not happening in a vacuum.
We just spent the last 4 years living through what will undoubtably be remembered as the most absurd period our government ever faced, and now the same people who contorted themselves into emotional and logic pretzels to the point of complete and utter incoherence over that time period now all of a sudden want to pretend they care about the things they spent the last 4 years laughing off.
Joe Biden has a lot to answer for right now and serious people are absolutely right to demand clear and honest answers. But if you spent the past few months ignoring or even excusing the former president stashing hundreds of classified documents including Top Secret SCI nuclear documents in the basement of his golf resort while lying to the government that he had them, then you don’t get to pretend you have any issue with this. That’s what the left is reacting to right now, not your fantasy notion born entirely out of projection that the “leader of the left” is untouchable.
Created:
-->
@TWS1405_2
In a locked garage with his corvette. 🤦♂️🙄🤦♂️Yeah, real secure place for classified documents you weren’t even suppose to take home in the first place.
I’m sorry, I seem to have missed your post a few months ago when the FBI found top secret nuclear documents in the basement of Trump’s golf club. Perhaps you can share that post to show us your principled dedication to the proper handling of classified documents?
Created:
-->
@ILikePie5
Trump never declassified any of the documents he is being investigated for.Says who? You? He can literally tell anyone and it would become declassified at that time
This is exactly the level of stupid we can expect when we elect a moron like Donald Trump - we’re actually debating whether a president can declassify top secret documents without telling the government it belongs to that it’s declassified.
The president is the foundational authority on what is classified, so he couldn’t technically be in violation of holding classified materials, but once he became a private citizen that no longer applies.
The document actively determining our system of classifications was an executive order by Obama in 2010, Trump never changed that. So he can disregard it all he wants while president, but once Biden is sworn in the documents in question are no longer subject to his whims.
Biden purposefully took documents to his think tank and his residence, withheld those documents until he was caught, and lied about it to the American people by stating he never did that.
We don’t even know how the documents got there nor do we have any evidence Biden was aware of them so you are just making shit up, which is not surprising since this is exactly the kind of bad faith argument I’ve come to expect from you.
And not for nothing but I find your hypocrisy amusing. One minute Biden is so senile that he doesn't even know where he is, the next he is so sharp that he couldn’t have possibly ended up with a document he wasn’t supposed to have without purposeful intent.
FBI searched it before too and just told Trump to do certain things to ensure security.
Citation please.
Where are the raids on Biden.
When the FBI has evidence to convince a federal judge that Biden is hoarding classified documents which he is refusing to turn over and lying about possessing you’ll have them.
Oh wait, actually you won’t because Biden is definitionally immune from mishandling classified materials.
Not one thing I just mentioned can be applied to Joe Biden here. If you think that is just semantics you don’t speak English.Lol it’s literally two equal cases of “mishandling” classified documents
I just explained the reasons why Trump is both in legal jeopardy and facing severe political backlash and it has absolutely nothing to do with “mishandling” codified documents. Did you read a single word I of it? Do you have an actual response or are you just going to keep pretending you’re engaging in the conversation?
And seriously… Trump was found holding top secret nuclear documents in the basement of a gulf resort without the government’s knowledge and you don’t have a word to say about that. You don’t give a rats ass about the handling of classified documents and you know it.
You realize how rotten it is that the DoJ and Biden knew about this before the election yet didn’t tell Americans after criticizing his opponent for taking documents.
No, I don’t. Neither Biden nor Trump were on the ballot anywhere this cycle and it is not the job of the DOJ to tell the public every time a public official does something unsettling. This is an incredibly silly point.
Created:
-->
@ILikePie5
It’s a simple question really. Should the former VP be prosecuted for mishandling classified documents? Yes or No?
I don’t know. That’s a purely legal question that I’m not qualified to answer because I don’t know what exactly the law considers “mishandling” documents or how the documents ended up there in the first place.
The President can declassify any material at any point in time. The VP cannot.
This is completely irrelevant to this since Trump never declassified any of the documents he is being investigated for.
They can semantically weave their arguments as much as they want.
This isn’t about semantics, it’s about basic common sense.
Trump is facing serious legal jeopardy and political backlash because he purposefully took and withheld top secret documents from the government and then lied about having them once they were discovered missing. The only reason we got them back and the only reason we ever found out he had them was because the FBI searched his residence.
Not one thing I just mentioned can be applied to Joe Biden here. If you think that is just semantics you don’t speak English.
Created:
-->
@YouFound_Lxam
Question:If school is teaching kids about the LGBTQ+ community, then what would their response be, if a kid asked what it means to like someone, and what is the difference between gay couples and strait couples. Then when they learn about how babies are made, they are going to ask, well how do gay people make babies. And oh boy, that's going to be an awkward conversation to have with a 10–12-year-old.
The difference between straight couples and gay couples is that in a straight couple a man and a woman like each other, in a gay couple a man and a man or a woman and a woman like each other.
Gay couples can’t make babies.
There is nothing difficult or awkward about this, and there is nothing about the subject of gay people that is tied to sex any more than talking about what it means to be straight.
This is an entirely made up issue. The examples you listed along with every example the political right headlines to try and push their anti gay narrative have nothing inherently to do with the LGBTQ community. If a male teacher hands out playboy magazines to his male students, no one would be dumb enough to argue that this shows society should be concerned about straight people.
If you want to be an advocate against sexualizing children that’s fine, but stop pretending that this of all part of some fantasy agenda of the LGBTQ community.
Created:
-->
@TWS1405_2
$20 bill analogy = ignorant denialism intellectual cowardice. Not to mention a false equivalency fallacy and red herring.
Another enlightening post from DART’s most highly regarded intellectual.
If you are feeling cornered because you have no rebuttal you can just say that instead of desperately trying to project such fake superiority. No one is being fooled by this, you’re like the kid who puts one hand over his face while he uses the other to pick his nose. Like bro we can see what you’re doing.
Created:
-->
@TWS1405_2
it’s the core issue of handling said documents that’s the issue being raised/discussed here
No, it’s not. If it were you would have something to say about US top secret nuclear documents being held in the basement of a gulf resort without the governments knowledge. You don’t give a damn about responsible handling of classified materials and you know it.
The documents were always available to the NARA and FBI. They only had to ask.
They did. He ignored them. They subpoenaed them, Trump blew them off. Not even Trump’s lawyers are disputing this, are you really that much of a partisan hack that you believe what you’re saying?
Trump even sued NARA and the FBI’s to stop them from reviewing the documents after they were taken, and then claimed they should give them back.
You can’t be serious.
Created:
-->
@YouFound_Lxam
The documents Trump possessed were discovered missing by NARA, who then sought them out by asking and then subpoenaing them from him. Trump lied claiming he didn’t have them until the search warrant was executed. The search found hundreds of classified documents in a golf club, including top secret documents containing nuclear secrets.Really?
Concession noted. Glad we can now move on to real issues.
Created:
-->
@TWS1405_2
At its core it’s the exact same thing.
If you ignore all the differences, what remains will look the same.
This is the strategy that wins republicans elections, because clearly their voters aren’t concerned about reality.
Whether we’re talking about basic morality or the law, the most important element that separates right from wrong or legal from illegal, is intent. This isn’t some insignificant consideration, it’s that makes the difference in nearly any circumstance.
I lose a $20 bill, then find $20 on the floor where I was previously standing so I put it in my pocket, but it turns out to be yours.
I watch $20 fall out of your pocket, then come up from behind you and put it in my pocket.
Both actions and effects of said actions are exactly the same. But one is neither illegal nor immoral, the other is downright theft and just plain wrong.
So let’s apply this basic common sense to the dispute at hand.
The documents Trump held were transported to Mar-A-Lago in boxes. There’s no chance no one knew what they were or how they ended up there. Meanwhile we don’t know how the documents Biden held got there, but being that it was less than a dozen it is very reasonable to presume that may have been an oversight.
Trump blew off the FBI’s subpoenas and then lied to them telling them he didn’t have them. He even tried to hide them in his basement. Meanwhile Biden’s attorneys turned them over without even being asked.
Trump continues to claim the FBI “raided his home” knowing full well they had every right and obligation to do what they did. Biden has been nothing but cooperative and supportive of every attempt to handle the situation in accordance with the law.
If Trump’s lawyers found more classified documents tomorrow we have every reason to believe they would burn them. Meanwhile we not only have no reason to believe that of Biden, his attorneys are proving the exact opposite.
These two men are not the same. These two scenarios are not the same. To pretend they are is to ignore the most basic reason and common sense. It is truly a case study in how partisanship warps people’s minds to the point it rewrites basic lessens we learned in kindergarten.
Created:
-->
@YouFound_Lxam
@TWS1405_2
This is yet another example of the political right fighting tooth and nail to pretend two extremely different things are the same.
Let’s run through some basic differences.
The documents Trump possessed were discovered missing by NARA, who then sought them out by asking and then subpoenaing them from him. Trump lied claiming he didn’t have them until the search warrant was executed. The search found hundreds of classified documents in a golf club, including top secret documents containing nuclear secrets.
The documents Biden possessed were not sought out by NARA, in fact they didn’t even know they were missing (which strongly suggests these were low level classifications). Once Biden’s attorneys found them they immediately returned them, which turned out to be about a dozen documents.
So just to recap the basics
- Trump defied a lawful subpoena for their return, Biden didn’t
- Trump lied to federal authorities, Biden didn’t
- Biden had a dozen or so documents, Trump had over a hundred
- Trump had top secret documents, Biden’s we’re not even noticed as missing
And to address a few other right wing talking points;
Mar-a-Lago was searched because the FBI was able to show proof to a federal judge that Trump was in possession of the documents Trump claimed he didn’t have as well as where they were. If they had such evidence on Biden we would see the same. But no such evidence is needed because Biden is actually cooperating.
Trump did not declassify anything, if he did the government would know about that.
These are not the same thing. not even close. This really isn’t complicated.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@TheUnderdog
but all Cuba lovers should get sent to Cuba and all Cuba hating Cubans should get sent to America.
And who are these “Cuba lovers”? I am aware of no serious political figure who advocates for a Cuban style society nor have I observed this sentiment within any significant portion of the American electorate. It sounds like an entirely made up phenomenon.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@TheUnderdog
If the republican candidate was proven to be a child rapist, most right wingers would back him simply because he is a Republican.
It’s not a hypothetical, did we already forget Roy Moore?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@YouFound_Lxam
Then why was Obama President?
I think you meant to ask, why out of the country’s 46 president have only one of them been black?
But if we’re actually being serious, the fact that one black man made it to the Oval Office is in no way an argument that white people are not advantaged within our society. Nor are all your cherry picked examples where black people are having some level of success. If I were to sit here and come up with similar examples where white people appear to be doing better than black people do you really think my list would be so short?
The only disadvantage that a lot of the black communities in America have today, is there culture:
And where do you think that culture came from?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@TWS1405_2
I’ve addressed the topic with concrete substance.
Linking to all of your previous posts within our back and forths does nothing but demonstrate to anyone who actually clicks on them how unserious you are. Half of your posts contained nothing but links, others contained nothing of any substance at all. The only post you listed that was worth anything was post 32, but if you actually read my criticisms of you I wasn’t making the charge that you haven’t posted anything of substance anywhere. I was criticizing you for post 42 where you pretended you were responding to my last real attempt to talk to you about the subject but all you did was respond with stupid childish insults and condescension. It’s not my job at that point to go back and see what substantive points you have made somewhere else in this thread to respond to.
If you want to be taken seriously start making actual arguments, not just posting links, and stop pretending you’re DART’s gift to intellectuals. You’re not. I’m having a far more mature and intelligent conversation with a 16 year old and even GP is telling you you’re being ridiculous.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Greyparrot
You think black office workers are feeling the strength of their domination?The ones from 2 parent homes sure as hell are.
What does that even mean?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@TWS1405_2
If you did then you would talk about it instead of spending your entire post throwing childish insults and pumping your chest.Typical denialist intellectual coward response.
I would respond if you gave me something to respond to. Not one sentence in your entire post was about the substance of any issue raised in this thread. Now you claim I’m being evasive without any mention of what I evaded, you claim I’m engaging in strawman arguments without one clarification of your position, and that I’m engaging in logical fallacies without one example.
You’re not a serious individual.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Greyparrot
America right now is in an openly admitted apartheid where 14% of the population dominate every discussion and are listened and valued above any other.
They may dominate every political discussion but white people still dominate every lucrative profession. You think black office workers are feeling the strength of their domination?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Greyparrot
While there are examples you can show on your side, I can show as many if not more on the other side, especially in employment opportunities in entertainment and academic careers. I think the solution to promoting de-facto equality would be to eliminate the advantages on both sides.Agree?
No.
One can always cherry pick certain pockets where black people in general have an advantage, the question is about the overall picture. Again, if you were to die today and be reincarnated tomorrow, would you rather be brought back into this world as a white person or black person?
This is much like the question I posed earlier, and just like in that example if we have to search for examples where black people are in an even playing field or better that kind of proves the point. No such search is necessary to justify choosing to be white.
For whatever it’s worth I don’t think white privilege today is anything near what it was even a decade ago let alone throughout the previous century. We’ve came a long way and I think of it today more in terms of a legacy thing. A child born into a wealthy family is far more likely to grow up wealthy than a child who is not, and it’s clear who’s doing better overall there.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@YouFound_Lxam
Your question is about racism. Not white privilege.
They’re not separate things.
If you live in a society that overall treats you lesser because of the color of your skin then you are disadvantaged because you will not get the same benefits and considerations as others.
You’re trying to limit what qualifies as privilege to a matter of legal rights but that is nothing more than a technical disqualification. In real life, living in a world where people see you a certain way and judge you differently is going to have a negative impact on your empirical well being.
So at the end of the day you can define it and qualify it however you want, but when the rest of us talk about white privilege we’re talking about everything, not just the corner that you carved out.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@TheUnderdog
Uh oh, sounds like someone is no longer thinking for themselves.
Created:
-->
@YouFound_Lxam
Much of the pro-choice movement, has been driven with the fear that the government wants to take away their rights.
No, that’s how right wing arguments work.
Banning abortion isn’t about the fear that government wants to take away your rights, it is taking away your rights (if you have a uterus).
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@YouFound_Lxam
It's simple:White privilege in the USA ended, when the law forbade privileges in the law to be based on the color of your skin. It ended when the law was equal for all people, regardless of their skin color.
So just to be clear, employers who, say, hate black people and therefore refuse to hire them, all of a sudden treat black candidates just as favorably as white candidates because the law says they have to. Is that correct?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@TWS1405_2
Yes, I am a dick and very forward on these controversial subjects.
Wow, such strength behind that keyboard. How admirable.
So what! It is because I know what the fuck I am talking about.
If you did then you would talk about it instead of spending your entire post throwing childish insults and pumping your chest. Notice how you didn’t respond with a single word of substance anywhere, and will no doubt have the nerve to pretend it’s because I’m the one not worthy of serious discussion. What a joke.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Greyparrot
Allow me to enlighten you. Slaves were neither represented, nor taxed. What the 3/5 compromise ensured was that privileged white slave owners would have power over northern white victims. Also ensuring the north paid more taxes.
Failed attempt. I asked how they were counted, since your boy here seems to think the census has boring to do with this.
Beyond that, I’ve already explained this numerous times. I never said the compromise itself benefited white people, I am pointing to the fact that it was needed as a demonstration of the fact that white privileged existed in this country. Under no circumstances in a country where there was not a significant privilege for one group would we debate whether to count certain “other” individuals as full people. Why is that so difficult for you? What part of this do you need me to explain?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Greyparrot
Well, we already know in the 1800's, if you could pass for white, you nearly always claimed white.
Yeah no shit, because it was a privilege to be white.
In 2023, and ever since the Obama days, if you could pass for black, you most certainly identified as black nearly every time.
Maybe if you’re trying to pass as something other than a lame white boy, but either way that’s highly debatable. The first point isn’t.
Created: