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@Greyparrot
The CDC hasn't taken the stance that the vaccine stops the spread of Covid for almost a year when the preliminary stats on Delta came out. That was the lie that the mandates were based on. That it would stop the spread with Biden's perplexing, unfounded claim "protect the vaccinated from the non-vaccinated".
The idea was that *if* enough Americans got vaccinated, that would effectively stop the spread, but there were caveats to this that everyone who actually cared about science and reality understood;
1. That we didn’t know what the percentage for heard immunity would be. What we had were estimates, the lowest of which were in the 70’s.
2. There was always the threat of a more potent variant which would change everything.
Regarding #1, we never got to the rates of vaccination needed even in the lowest estimates because of right wing America. Regarding #2 nothing was known about Omicron when the mandates took place.
So the issue here is not that Biden lied, he didn’t. The issue is that as usual, you have no idea what you’re talking about and just keep parroting the nonsense you hear on Tucker Carlson or whatever right wing propaganda network you watch.
Biden knew it was a lie for a long time months ago when Delta was killing hundreds of thousands and the original vaxx was next to useless.
“Two dose vaccine effectiveness was 86.7% against infection with the delta variant…
Vaccine effectiveness against hospital admission with the delta variant was 97.5%. Vaccine effectiveness against infection with the delta variant declined from 94.1% 14-60 days after vaccination to 80.0% 151-180 days after vaccination”
If 80% effectiveness is useless you don’t know what that word means.
Not believing what the polls say does not = not caring.Yeah, it does. If all he believes are the 5 percenters like you who think he is overperforming as he claims, then he is telling the other 95 percent to fuck off.
"By the way, you have a poll coming out," Trump said during his hour and a half-long speech. "I want to know what it is. You know they do that straw poll, right?"
"Now, if it's bad, I just say it's fake," Trump said, drawing laughter from the crowd. "If it's good, I say that's the most accurate poll, perhaps ever."
This is why it’s so ridiculous to converse with you. For the prior four years we had a president who called every single poll he didn’t like fake and literally joked about it. You had no problem with any of that. But now all of a sudden Biden is president and here you are pretending to be outraged over the idea of a president not believing what the polls say. Hypocrisy doesn’t even describe this. You’re not a real person, all that smack you talk about people being brainwashed is pure projection.
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@Greyparrot
You continue to repeat the same claim with no justification and despite a much simpler alternative available. This is the definition of unreasonable.
Vaccine mandates are recommended and supported by nearly every health expert in the country. Thus, a president imposing one needs no further explanation as to his motivations. In fact not imposing one, would.
You claim he won’t admit to some vaccine lie. If it’s all a lie it is being parroted by nearly every health expert in the world, making the claim absurd on its face, before we even get to whatever you claim this lie is (which I guarantee will be a strawman).
You claim he doesn’t care what people think about him, but the statement you cited does not in any way support that claim. Not believing what the polls say does not = not caring. And BTW I hate to break this to you but this isn’t the first time we’ve had a president who didn’t believe what the polls say, but for some reason that never mattered to you before. Strange.
Provide an actual argument for why you think Biden is imposing these mandates. So far all you’ve come up with are ad hoc overly complicated assertions of his character while ignoring the obvious answers right in front of your face.
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@Athias
Do you believe in the tooth fairy?
If not then please explain what it means for an argument to “work”.
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@Greyparrot
Last 4 years leftist media was boring all saying the same thing running off the same script with no original thought.
2+2=4 is not an original thought, that doesn’t mean the media should report that it equals something else.
This is the difference between left wing media vs right wing media. Enjoy your original and exciting reporting, I’ll stick to networks that care about reality no matter how dull or unoriginal it is.
Some of the leftist MSM are downright nasty describing Biden. I love it.
Again, this is what it looks like when your media outlet cares about reality. Right wing media would never criticize the dear leader.
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@Greyparrot
None of America burned except in Liberal states that refused help from Trump. (to save their own egos)
*sigh* Another whataboutism regarding the summer riots. Gee I didn’t see that coming.
Again, where is the comparison of the millions of people Biden mandated out of a job to cover his ass about a lie regarding vaccines?That's actual suffering to Americans a president caused just to save his own skin.
Do you believe that the guy who pushes an old lady to the ground for fun, and the guy who pushes an old lady to the ground to get her out of the way of an oncoming bus are the same because in both cases… they pushed an old lady to the ground?
Because that’s exactly what you sound like.
Disagreeing with Biden’s position and policy regarding vaccine mandates is one thing, it’s another to pretend that he was doing it out of some childish and narcissistic need for people to follow his orders instead of, I don’t know, a pandemic that’s killed nearly one million Americans.
I’m willing to bet you didn’t even notice that this was copied and pasted from before, because clearly you are not reading my responses with the intent of absorbing my point.
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@ILikePie5
The reason Trump should be banned from running again is because he completely violated his oath to protect and defend the United States. My fear of what a second term for Trump would do to this country is a completely separate issue.
Credence is not part of the equation with Trump. We already beat him in 2020 and he’s still running around the country claiming he won with nearly half the country believing him. With Trump it has nothing to do with issues, that’s why the Republican Party abandoned its own platform instead just pledging to do whatever Trump says.
And this idea that “attacking him at every front” is some kind of substitute for beating him on the issues is nonsense. We attack him where being attacked is warranted. It never ceases to amaze me watching the right wing constantly attack Biden for things that were not even half as bad as Trump on his best day.
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@Greyparrot
Biden specifically asked elite corporations to fire people who wouldn't get vaccinated claiming it would stop the spread. With Biden you have not just a lie, but malice toward the public.Show me any American hurt anywhere near as close as the millions of people that lost their job due to Biden's influence.There's no chance in hell Trump would have ever asked corporations to fire people that disagreed with his lies. But you elected this aloof dimwit who actually did it.
Do you believe that the guy who pushes an old lady to the ground for fun, and the guy who pushes an old lady to the ground to get her out of the way of an oncoming bus are the same because in both cases… they pushed an old lady to the ground?
Because that’s exactly what you sound like.
Disagreeing with Biden’s position and policy regarding vaccine mandates is one thing, it’s another to pretend that he was doing it out of some childish and narcissistic need for people to follow his orders instead of, I don’t know, a pandemic that’s killed nearly one million Americans.
But then again, I guess when you’ve spent the prior 4 years supportive of a man who actually was this childish, who actually was this narcissistic, who actually was willing to burn down the whole country for the sake of saving his own ego, I can see how that would warp ones mind to the point where you actually believe that this is normal, making the former a simple explanation.
It’s insane, but ok.
You're right. When it comes to our borders, illegal invaders are a good thing. With Ukraine it's a baaad thing. Leftist hypocrisy on full display.
I just explained why these two things are nothing alike, and your response is to continue pushing the same caricature while proclaiming that you’re into some kind of hypocrisy?
This just isn’t serious.
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@Greyparrot
I also love how the leftist elites are suddenly all "concerned" about the sanctity of National Borders.
The Mexican government is not sending troops to take over and claim SanDiego as their land.
These are not remotely the same issue, but that's what happens when you rely so heavily on hyperbolic language, you don't even know what you're talking about anymore.
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@Greyparrot
Trump would have NEVER pushed a lie for a year straight that vaxxed people would stop the spread of Omicron knowing full well vaccinated people can transmit the virus. Biden is STILL doing this. Biden doesn't care about the people at all. Forget about the effects of lying to the people to provide a sense of false security though. He would rather see millions of people DIRECTLY punished for defying him than to backtrack a lie that would make him look bad.
The idea that Trump wouldn't push any lie for a year straight is laughable to put it politely. The man is still lying about having won the 2020 election. Still.
No one has been saying for the past year that vaccines would stop the spread of Omicron because it hasn't even been on anyone's radar for a year.
And no, Biden is not doing this. That's your confirmation bias taking over as usual. Provide one example of your BS so I can show you what he actually said.
If you want an real example of someone lying to provide a false sense of security about covid listen to the Trump/Woodward phone call where Trump told Bob out of his own mouth that this is what he was doing.
And about a president who would rather see people punished for defying him rather than backtrack a lie... WTF? Do you even know which one you're talking about? This was literally Trump's MO. It's the very reason why every Republican in Washington is still scared of him and still has to lie to appease him.
Is this post satire or are you being serious?
There is NO equivalency of the blatant disregard for the people for personal gain.
That was Trump's entire strategy for dealing with covid. Remember when he stopped the daily covid press briefings because he didn't like the news coverage he was getting? Remember when he stood up on the podium and told the world he wasn't going to listen to his own health experts on masks because it "wasn't for him"? Remember when he defied every health expert in the country holding packed rally after rally to bolster his reelection campaign?
The man never cared about a damn thing other than himself.
And if you want a better example of him disregarding the people for his own personal gain let's once again talk about his 2020 election lie. The man is literally taking the country to the brink of a civil war because he cannot admit that he lost.
He does not care about anything other than himself.
And don't EVEN get me started on Fauci, the guy who DEFINITELY made the pandemic all about himself...
A Fauci meme? Are you serious? If I wanted a conversation this dumbed down I'd be on Twitter.
To say Fauci made the pandemic all about himself is just obscenely offensively stupid. The man is an imunologist and an advisor. He leads one agency, has no actual political power and no political ambitions. What he does have is decades of experience dealing with public health crisis's going back to aids during the Reagan administration. The fact that you guys have made him your Boogeyman is the prime demonstration of how warped your minds have become.
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@Greyparrot
"I think what you're going to see is that Russia will be held accountable if it invades. And it depends on what it does. It's one thing if it's a minor incursion and then we end up having a fight about what to do and not do." -BidenTHIS is Deplorable.
Whataboutisms aside, the conversation was about Trump's *conduct*. None of this is an example of that.
And no it's not comparable to the things I just pointed out and not on its own deplorable. What did Biden mean when he talked about a minor incursion? Do you even care? No, because you can pretend it meant whatever you wanted it to mean so that you can pretend it's as bad as anything Trump had done or said.
Using celebrities and junk news infotainment outlets like CNN to promote elite central planners with cringy propaganda is something North Korea does.It's Deplorable.
Politicians use celebrities all the time. There is nothing wrong with that.
CNN is a reputable news outlet. Just because they tell you what you want to hear doesn't change that.
Calling something propaganda doesn't make it propaganda. This is a silly throw away comment. Bring an actual argument next time.
or lying about things so simple as the crowd size at his inauguration is deplorable?It's impossible to lie about an opinion.
The number of people who attended the inauguration is not an opinion, it's an objectively verifiable fact.
The overreacting response to some of Trump's weird and trivial opinions was so ridiculous. National security isn't affected by a president's opinion of his crowd size.
No one said it was. The crowd size example is stunning and memorable because it was literally day one and he's already lying to the American people about something that is so easily verifiably false. It sent a very clear message to the country and the world that this man would never take his responsibility to be honest seriously. This is not only a man who will piss on your leg and tell you it's raining, but laugh at you while he's doing it. And the fact that this was something so trivial only makes it worse. Not only was there no reason he needed to lie about this, but it goes to show what kind of nonsense is taking up space in the head of the man we just handed control of our nuclear codes.
Not that any of this was surprising of course, anyone who followed the election should have known this was the kind of man he was. It just doesn't make it any less jarring to watch it become reality.
I DO care when he greenlights foreign incursions at American expense.
I love how the political right is all of a sudden so concerned with Russia.
Biden isn't about to hold a private meeting with Putin with no Americans in the room except a translator who will be sworn to secrecy and whose notes Biden will confiscate to never be seen by anyone. To all of a sudden worry that he's the one who will do nothing to Putin is absurd.
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@Vader
His conduct was not deplorable, but certainly unprofessional
You don’t think threatening nuclear war over Twitter talking about “my button is bigger than yours”, using his platform as president to attack celebrities, calling the press the enemy of the people, or lying about things so simple as the crowd size at his inauguration is deplorable?
He spoke half hazardless, but I would tend to look at his policy and what he did and I see various positives from my view
But what was different about his policy from what we would have gotten from any other republican? His only major accomplishment was on taxes, and not only would any republican president have signed it but he had nothing to do with crafting the legislation. Republicans in congress were repeatedly reported calling him a moron and all kinds of names talking about how little he understood the bill, and he made that obvious every time he opened his mouth. You never heard him talk about anything he wanted to see in the bill, all he ever talked about was getting it done so he could have a “win”.
Other then that what do we have, judges? All he did was fill the openings Mitch McConnell left for him by denying all of Obama’s nominees. And when it came to Covid, to say his handling could have been better is an egregious under statement. The man took a pandemic and made it all about himself. To say my little sister could have done better is not an exaggeration, we would have been better with no president at all.
Lastly with NK, I just don’t get how anyone could look back at that time as anything other than a total embarrassment. Setting the childish and pathetic tweets aside, the rambled about how the two fell in love, and he completely ignored when NK murdered an American, sending him back in a coma. And all of it for what? NK continued with its nuclear program giving up nothing despite all the talks.
Sorry for the mouthful, but I just don’t get how anyone could see his time in office as anything other than an embarrassment not just for the US but for humanity.
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@Greyparrot
It wasn’t an all encompassing answer. Do I really need to explain the difference between Florida and anywhere else in the US? Do you think no one was enjoying time away in Florida before Ron DeSantis?
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@ResurgetExFavilla
Trump definitely understands branding, but I think you give him way too much credit. The man gets away with what he does because he is a perfect storm. His lifetime of conning everyone to believe he was richer than he actually was is what allowed him to build his empire to what it became, which allowed him to pass himself off as a business genius. Yet at the same time he comes off as a complete imbecile who might actually be dumb enough to believe the stupid things he is saying, which people could overlook because of his fake business acumen. So what we get is someone who is both dumb enough to champion ideas which dumb Americans approve of, and yet smart and successful enough to make the dumb people think this is reality.
No one else could get away with that because the smart ones couldn’t pass themselves off as genuine enough to believe this stuff, and the dumb ones would never have such a strong background to hold up as their resume.
So sure, branding is part of it but without the imbecilic aspect of this the man would have gotten no where. And I’m pretty sure that wasn’t the intention.
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@Greyparrot
Who is suggesting states shouldn’t have rights?Every party in power in Washington DC.
Provide one valid example.
Because there is a huge difference in the efficiency of Central Planning at a local level over a National level. You know this already.
Then you favor county rights over states rights correct? Assuming so since you believe more local control is better, I’d love to know your thoughts on how Ron DeSantis is governing Florida. Telling school districts they’re not allowed to impose mask mandates even when the mayors support them, for example.
There's a reason why hypocrite New York politicians vacation in Florida. State Rights.
No, they go to Florida because it’s beautiful thanks to the palm trees and nice weather. This argument is so dumb, the idea that people flock to Florida’s because of its politics. Anything to make yourself feel validated I guess…
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@ResurgetExFavilla
It would be so simple to just pass the popular items in standalone bills, but they don't. That's because their aim isn't to pass popular items, its to pass the unpopular items which their donors direct them to pass.
I get this in theory, but it doesn’t address my issue here. Politicians care about their own political careers, and above all else. The only reason politicians are subservient to their donors is because they need them to keep their seats. But passing popular agenda items is every bit as valuable and I would argue more valuable to that end. For the democrats being in the situation they are, there’s no way for them to hold onto control if they don’t give voters something to show why they should be in power, so this failure in particular is their political death sentence. No donor can fix that, so why prioritize them?
and that's when I realized that all their talk about helping people is complete bullshit. It's about serving their donors, that's why not a single one would take a deal that was weighted heavily in their constituents' favor -- denying Trump a symbolic victory was more important to them
This doesn’t make any sense. You’re claiming that all democrats care about is appeasing their donors, yet your example is of them not extracting what they could from republicans all for the symbolic victory of denying funding for the wall. What use do the democratic donors have with a symbolic victory? If they were all about their donors wouldn’t this have been a perfect opportunity to appease them?
Republicans are at least honest about serving the middle and upper-middle classes
What policy have republicans championed to help the middle class?
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@zedvictor4
Agreed. The only reason I think DeSantis might have a chance in the general is because of the fierce division in our current politics which only strengthens the pendulum effect. DeSantis is a terrible candidate for reasons I believe I already mentioned. The difference between him and Trump is that Trump really is as dumb as he sounds so his positions don’t come off as disingenuous and insidious as it does for Desantis.
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@Greyparrot
Without State Rights…
Who is suggesting states shouldn’t have rights?
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@ILikePie5
@zedvictor4
Just admit that you succumb to groupthink beliefs.
We all have to succumb to group think beliefs,
The group think conversation has always irritated me. For every societal issue there will always be a limited number of “acceptable” positions one can hold. So no matter what side you fall on there will always be countless individuals who believe the same thing, some “group” you can be categorized in. Unless you’re one of those who’s so obsessed with the idea of “thinking for yourself” that you take absurd positions just to be different from everyone else, which is ironically even worse because that means the position you land on was still dictated by others except now it’s just a ridiculous one.
With that said, unless you have a valid reason for proclaiming that someone is taking a position just to be like everyone else around them (blatant hypocrisy being the main tell), the charge that someone isn’t really thinking for themselves is unfalsifiable and therefore a pointless road to go down. I find that this charge is mostly either projection or an attempt by one to deflect from the issue cause they have nothing better. Or maybe someone who is just tired of the conversation but wants to make it seem like the other person is the problem.
Sorry, just had to get that out.
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@zedvictor4
I’m really not clear what you’re asking. I think DeSantis will turn off moderates in a general election, but I was talking about what is likely to happen within the GOP.
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@Greyparrot
And what is the whole point of that when the president you elected says you're on the side of Bull Connor for even suggesting a different strategy?
The point is that this is a debate site, so when someone says “here is my opinion” the idea is to respond by agreeing or disagreeing and explain why, not to change the subject to something you think is more important.
Remind me what the Republican Party platform says?Probably not blaming the voters for DC incompetency. Wild guess.
Actually is says everything you need to know about which party follows its leader as if it were a religion. And it’s not the one you claimed.
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@Wylted
I legitimately think he would be laughed at. This isn't 2016, and a these people are not loyal to Trump.
Over the past 6 years I’ve watched as Trump lead the way in shattering everything that was once considered normal. Trump calls the media fake news, suddenly the idea of a free and fair press being essential to American life goes out the window. Trump is a juvenile asshole, suddenly it’s no longer toxic in politics to be a juvenile asshole. Trump buys into conspiracy theories, suddenly Alex Jones gets catipulted into being legitimate figure. Trump says the election is stolen, suddenly conceding an election and congratulating your opponent goes from a sacred American tradition to a sign of political weakness.
To say Trump himself is not leading the way is pretty absurd, no one else in the history of American politics could ever get away with a fraction of this until he came along. At best you can say his base always believed these things but didn’t come out until Trump came along, but that doesn’t strengthen your case at all. Because if that’s so then Trump is the man responsible for showing these people that they don’t have to hide in the political shadows anymore. They get to be who they really are which is how many political analysts explain the cult of Trump, and it makes perfect sense. If that view is right then these people are indebted to Trump in a way no one else could ever make up for. They will never abandon him.
And once again, we’re not talking about the majority of even the republicans, just enough to make a difference in a close national race.
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@3RU7AL
can you describe your personal moral theory ?
My morals begin with the core values of reducing harm and fairness. Everything else follows from that.
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@thett3
Would you prefer Trump of DeSantis as the Republican nominee?
Tough one.
I’m staunchly against today’s Republican Party, so my vote is for whichever will be more likely to lose.
Given everything I said at the top, I believe that’s DeSantis. I believe not only will Trump’s narcissism keep a portion of those voters from coming out, but DeSantis has no appeal outside of the already committed political right. I find nothing about him likable or charismatic.
I view Trump as more of a risk though. If DeSantis won the presidency, I would have more confidence in him to actually care about the constitution and the country. Trump has never read it and couldn’t give a shit about anything in it. He cares about himself, full stop.
So I guess either way I’d say Desantis.
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@Greyparrot
What do you want me to say? Lie to you and say "Oh the Democrat leaders screwed up and they will fix it?"
No, I was looking for your assessment of the points I made in the OP. I wrote a whole post criticizing their strategy and provided a strategy I think makes far more sense politically, your response to tell me about some guy who called the democratic base followers. That’s not relevant.
And that is EXACTLY why DC is full of people just like Begala and will not change any time soon. Power derived from blind faith and devotion to the government can only yield the most corrupt and incompetent leaders possible.
Nothing I’ve said remotely supports your talking points, in fact the entire point was how the democrats are allowing republicans to take their would-be voters with stupidity and offered a way to counteract that. It’s literally the opposite of what you are claiming this is. You are having a whole conversation with yourself.
The Democrat party has truly evolved into a religion from the top down. With believers and non-believers splitting the country in half.
Projection at its finest. Remind me what the Republican Party platform says?
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@Wylted
This is what people that dislike Trump Don't understand. Trump is not in charge of his movement. He was a tool, because people are sick of the Washington elite, fucking things up. This is why he was booed by his own crowd when he told them all to get vaccinated at a recent rally.
This is why I said he would take his *die hard* supporters with him, which I described as a significant portion of his base. By significant, I am talking about enough to make a difference in a close national race, which is likely in 2024 no matter what happens.
No one is claiming all his supporters will follow him no matter what, but you can’t seriously argue that if he were to claim the republicans primaries were rigged, a sizable portion of the Republican electorate would not suddenly adopt that same view, where as if he conceded almost no one would. He clearly has pull.
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@Greyparrot
So no, nothing serious to contribute. Got it.
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@3RU7AL
I would certainly not say it’s immoral to give them money,by what moral theory ?
Mine
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Much has been made lately about the apparent growing feud between Trump and DeSantis. And while most on the right still support Trump, many feel that DeSantis is a much stronger candidate and want him to run.
I have to say, I find the idea of a DeSantis challenge to be a terrible idea and think he should be kissing Trump’s ass instead. Here’s the reality; DeSantis can win against Biden or anyone else the democrats nominate, but he can’t or at least won’t win without Trump. We all know Trump is a narcissistic child who cares more about himself than anything or anyone else. If DeSantis beat Trump in a primary Trump would never let that down, he would never support him, he’ll claim the Republican Party rigged the primaries and then declare war on the whole party. And with all of that, he will take all his die hard supporters with him, which is a pretty significant portion of the electorate in a close race which is likely no matter who the nominees are.
Given this reality, I don’t see why DeSantis isn’t doing everything he can to get on Trump’s good graces and convince him that he could carry his torch forward. The only chance he has of being president (at least in 2024) is for Trump to willingly step to the side.
Thoughts?
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@Lemming
I would certainly not say it’s immoral to give them money, I also wouldn’t say it’s immoral not to. I ride the NYC subway to work everyday so I come across probably two to three a day (literally had one asking me for change about 5 minutes ago). My attitude is no, I pay my taxes, and enough of my tax dollars has gone to help people without.
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@Greyparrot
No, I gave you my thoughts in this in the OP. Did you read it? Do you have any serious commentary on it?
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@RationalMadman
I don’t know. Do you?
If so, how?
If not, then what does not having an answer tell us?
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@RationalMadman
mNRA technology has been around for decades and has never shown any long term side effects. So yes, we know what it does. It’s just a question of whether you really want to know or if you are for some reason emotionally vested in not knowing.
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@Wylted
I'm talking about the policies in these bills that are hiding.
No, you were clearly making the point that democrats don’t support popular policies which I showed was objectively wrong
If you guys ever want to know if a Democrat supports something, look at the nazi party platform.For example do democrats believe in murdering innocent humans, for example abortion.Yes . Nazis killed innocent humans.Do democrats believe in gun control. Let's look at the nazi party, yes they confiscated guns.Do democrats believe in economic interventionism. Oh shit nazis were economic interventionists.Do democrats believe in alternative energy. Shit nazis used alternative energy methods when the allies cut off sources of oil.
Truly one of the dumbest arguments I’ve ever heard you make. This is like arguing that Jeffery Dahmer and the Pope should be placed in the same light because they both eat meat.
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@thett3
That would be disingenuous unless federalism was truly their most important issue.
But is it really? That’s exactly why I have a difficult time with this, because I’m just not buying that it is.
Every position we take is ultimately based on our core values, so what’s the core value fueling states rights? Like you said, a belief in the power of concentric circles of identity. So why then, when a republican governor for example tells individual school districts that they are not allowed to impose mask mandates within their schools has not one prominent republican anywhere in the country spoken out against that? Why, when a republican governor takes away a city’s right to its own government (Detroit) does not one prominent republican speak out against that? Why when a state claims its readiness to take over a counties local election board (Fulton county) does the entire Republican Party go all in on the idea?
If this really is the core belief driving this argument then we should expect county rights to be valued ahead of states rights, but not only have I never heard this argument before from anyone, but the same people talking about states rights seem to be the first to use the power of state governments to trample all over the rights of the counties they take issue with. I just don’t buy this, their actions consistently contradict their argument.
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@Wylted
Liberals are proAbortion- killing babies
49% identify as pro life vs 47% Pro choice
Raising the minimum wage so black unemployment levels go up
62% favor of raising the minimum wage
Legalize the ability to use race in determining who to hire, so long as they are non white
61% favor affirmative action
End the death penalty, which is the only way we even are able to close a lot of cases, meaning more murderers will be on the streets.
54% favor the Death penalty. I will just point out that this is down from an 80/16 split 25 years ago so the country is clearly moving in the democrats direction.
Give more money to public schools because more money is always the solution, not better policies.
60% favor raising education funding
Gun laws.
52% say gun laws should be more strict
More welfare
43% favor more government spending, 31% say current spending is just about right, 26% say less spending.
If the policies were actually popular, like you claim. Why would they hide them in large bills to start with?
They are popular, and that’s my point.
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@Wylted
There is another issue at play also. Sometimes we don't know the best policies, until a bunch are tried out. The states work as an open market for testing policy ideals. With state rights we can see what works best, and other states will slowly adopt it as well
Massachusetts was the first state to implement Obamacare, which they touted as a model for the nation and then republicans nominated its architect for the presidency. That didn’t stop them from using states rights as its primary reason for opposing it. Sorry, I don’t buy it.
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@thett3
I get the idea in concept. Certainly states should have the right to govern themselves and not all states will elect to do things the same way. But when it comes to any given issue, the state you reside in doesn't matter. So states rights is something I would expect to come up in the “let’s agree to disagree” part of the exchange. But you can’t get to that part of the exchange without arguing the merits of the disagreement first, that’s where I take issue with this.
The thing that spawned me to start this conversation was a user claiming that states rights regarding abortion was “the main issue”. That just seems disingenuous to me. When was the last time you agreed with the government’s position but disagreed with its implementation because of which government was enforcing it? It just feels like an [insert argument here] approach rather than an honest defense of ones position.
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Something I’ve heard from all ends of the political spectrum but especially on the left is that the Democratic Party is incompetent. This claim is normally made in comparison to what republicans have been able to accomplish despite the fact that the majority of the public is with the democrats on most issues.
I’ve normally pushed back on this claim. The way I see it, the democratic base is far more diverse in their political ideology than the republican base, so getting everyone to fight together is not an equal task on both sides.
But this year however, I’m seeing things differently. The republican playbook is simple: characterize and demonize. So every bill the democrats put forward is characterized as some government takeover of something and democrats are always this nefarious group trying to control everyone’s lives. It’s predictable and tiresome.
But democrats play right into this. Take voting rights for example, nearly everything in these bills has huge national support when broken down individually. But right now democrats are trying to fix everything in large comprehensive bills giving republicans the perfect opportunity to find something, anything within the bill they can point to in order to sound reasonable for voting against it. Why? Why not break up these bills into individual parts and force everyone to go on record?
It’s easy to claim you’re against a federal takeover of elections, not so easy to argue in favor of gerrymandering. It’s easy to say you’re against spending trillions of dollars we don’t have, not so easy to argue against childcare.
So are they incompetent here, or is it just me?
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Why do conservatives so often point to states rights as justification for their arguments? This is used in a lot of things but especially for abortion - that it should be up to the states. I fail to see how a state government telling its citizens what they can and can’t do is any different from the federal government doing the same. Why not focus on the merits instead? It seems to me this is a cop out, and I just don’t understand why people go so hard to fight for things they can’t defend.
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@RationalMadman
What exactly are they? As in what is the mRNA 'antigen' if it's not based on Covid Sars like AZ and J&J are?
So your contention is an argument from ignorance.
I don’t know how they work because I haven’t spent my life studying how antibodies are created, I suggest you ask someone who has before claiming it doesn’t work.
What matters is that study after study seems to show that the mRNA vaccines are more effective than the J&J and AstraZeneca. That’s all that matters.
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@RationalMadman
Is your contention that Pfizer and Moderna do not produce antibodies? Cause there is no other conceivable word in your own definition that squares with your claim that they are not vaccines.
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@Tarik
So in other words you didn’t see it
Not even close. In other words; providing a post number is not an argument and I’m not going to guess what your argument is. If you have a point to make then make it.
Exactly, nothing at all therefore it makes no sense to ask me such an irrelevant question because it had nothing to do with the subject at hand.
It was perfectly relevant, I already explained why, you don’t get it.
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@Athias
I got up at two in the morning and saw this, and was like, this is like the ontological argument's older sibling that got tired of the rules of modal logic and said, "I'm going all in"....I love it. I'm not sure that it works but love it.It works out quite well actually.
Does this also work to establish the existence of the tooth fairy?
Not being a smart ass, I’m genuinely trying to understand what the argument here is.
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@Danielle
I’m generally opposed to its repeal, I think treating a company like Facebook or Twitter as a publisher for something Joe Schmoe says is ridiculous. With that said, companies could or at least should be held accountable for activity it’s aware of and fails to do anything about.
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@Tarik
See #363
I saw it, and it does absolutely nothing to refute my anything I’ve said. If you have a point to make then please make it, I’m not going to comb through the post to figure out what are going to make up next.
WTF? You claimed I was purposely avoiding using the word acceptance here when I literally defined belief earlier as “to accept something as true”.Exactly, which is why asking me that question about if I knew the difference makes no sense at all.
The two statements I asked if you knew the difference between has nothing to do with your made up disagreement over the word accept.
Well how about you do yourself a favor and don’t use any more examples going forward, because they’re never on target (or simple for that matter) and you just end up confusing yourself and everybody else involved, not to mention you requesting me to make sense of your own stupidity, I’m not having it period.
I am quite sure you are the only person confused by them. It’s not my fault you do not understand logic, which is evident by your inability to pull the logic out of an example and apply it to an alternative set of content. Because of this inability you are stuck bringing the content of the example with you into the next argument, that’s why you are confusing yourself and failing to understand anything I’ve said. I would explain what I’m talking about in greater detail, but for that I would need to use examples which you are incapable of deciphering, so I’ll just leave it there.
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@Wylted
For the second time, my point had nothing to do with the 5th amendment. I used an example of someone invoking their 5th amendment rights in order to convey the concept of not answering *any* questions related to a given topic. And when that didn’t work I shifted to a much simpler example instead.
I also never said anything was because of media training. Please stop making stuff up. My point there was to point out that anyone *who knows* how to deal with particular lines of questioning would have done the same thing.
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since the narrative was the conflation of belief/acceptance
The narrative was never the conflation of belief/acceptance, that’s something you made up and were having a conversation with yourself about. It was never my point nor had anything to do with anything I was arguing.
I was referring to #376
That’s makes it so much worse. Here is your characterization of post 376…
No you didn’t, because you PURPOSELY AVOIDED explicitly using acceptance in your line of questioning
And here is the post you are referring too…
The earth is round.I believe the earth is round.Do you understand the difference between these two statements?
WTF? You claimed I was purposely avoiding using the word acceptance here when I literally defined belief earlier as “to accept something as true”.
And what about this over-simplified example makes you think I was avoiding anything, other than a 4 syllable word to ensure this example was as simple as I could possibly make it?
This conversation has gotten downright ridiculous. I don’t even believe you are serious anymore, this is just an attempt to save face.
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@Wylted
Everything I just said is not only common knowledge, it’s common sense. That’s why I had to lower the IQ level here to a simplified Marry/Jane example. If you need me to find this for you it’s no wonder you believe this nonsense.
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@Wylted
Citation needed for what? Do you understand anything I just said? Do you have a response to it?
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