Dr.Franklin's avatar

Dr.Franklin

A member since

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11

Total posts: 10,854

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disgusted
lol
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The Standard Argument Against Free Will (TSAAFW)
wrong

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TRUE Christians have to accept that Jesus was an ABORTIONIST!
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@ethang5
true!
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What is your favorite argument for the existence of God?
1.Ontological Argument
2. Leziben Contingency Argument(best cosmological argument)
3.the Moral Argument
4.Argument from Abundance

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It is time for a DART Presidency
fuck no
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TRUE Christians have to accept that Jesus was an ABORTIONIST!
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@ethang5
just another troll
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NFL Divisional Round Predictions 2020
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@Vader
Jimmy G and the 49ers are a consistent team, not like the packers where the defense and offense are good at some times
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The Leibnizian Cosmological Argument
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@Mopac
the ultimate reality?

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The Most Forum Posts by Alphabet
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@Vader
begging for likes i see

I will NEVER be dethroned

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The Most Forum Posts by Alphabet
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@Discipulus_Didicit
pwned noob get rekt by 360 epic noscope
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Evolution.
I agree
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When Christian children do not obey their parents!
the weirdest op I have ever seen

but it is still funny
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NFL Divisional Round Predictions 2020
green bay always has to let another team into the game and create an extremely close and good game

EVERY SINGLE TIME

and then they pull some BS and get out of it
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Iraq?
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@triangle.128k
not if we protect them over Iran
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The Leibnizian Cosmological Argument
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@Discipulus_Didicit
its not my strawman
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Iraq?
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@Alec
We did have peace, but Obama fucked it up

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Environmental Wacko Divisional Predictions
awesome
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The Leibnizian Cosmological Argument
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@ethang5
good point
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The Leibnizian Cosmological Argument
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@ethang5
good point
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Iraq?
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@Alec
so what if we kill some civilians, we make peace
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The Leibnizian Cosmological Argument
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@Discipulus_Didicit
ok that doesnt matter. it's your opinion and not a fact these are just rebuttals to some common objections

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Iraq?
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@Alec
Why?
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The Leibnizian Cosmological Argument
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@Discipulus_Didicit
No those are common objections not the actual points
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The Leibnizian Cosmological Argument
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@Mopac
dude its not that complicated
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The Leibnizian Cosmological Argument
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@Mopac
ultimate reality is BS
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Iran launches missles at U.S. bases in Iraq
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@Username
10/10 terrorist sympathizer comment right there, 

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Iran launches missles at U.S. bases in Iraq
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@Username
stop defending Iran,If America accidently shot down a plane, the left would be in crazies. Iran did that on purpose, it's a terrorist state
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The Leibnizian Cosmological Argument
The Argument

Leibniz's argument consists of 3 premises and 2 conclusions, as follows:
•    Premise 1: Everything that exists has an explanation of its existence
•    Premise 2: If the universe has an explanation of its existence, that explanation is God
•    Premise 3: The universe exists
•    Conclusion 1: The universe has an explanation of its existence
•    Conclusion 2: Therefore the explanation of the universe's existence is God

However, is it a good argument? A good argument must satisfy the following criteria:
•    The premises must be true, and
•    The conclusions must follow logically from the premises.

In this article, I will work backwards. I will firstly discuss the logical structure of the argument (its validity) and then consider the premises. We will firstly assume that the premises are true and verify whether the conclusions follow from the premises.


Logical Structure

Conclusion 1 is justified by Premise 1 and 3 as follows:

•    Premise 1: Everything that exists has an explanation of its existence
•    Premise 3: The universe exists
•    Conclusion 1: The universe has an explanation of its existence

Thus if everything that exists has an explanation of its existence and the universe exists, then it follows that the universe has an explanation of its existence.

Conclusion 2 follows from premise 2 and conclusion 1 as follows:
  • Premises 2: If the universe has an explanation of its existence, that explanation is God
  • Conclusion 1: The universe has an explanation of its existence
  • Conclusion 2: Therefore the explanation of the universe's existence is God
I think it is fairly self-evident that the logical structure of the argument is valid. Now we will look at the premises.


Are the Premises True?

•    Premise 3

Premise 3 states that the universe exists. I think this is fairly self-evident. I am sure that there have been extreme sceptics that have questioned this claim, but I will not concern myself with them.

•    Premise 1

•    Objection 1
Premise 1 states that everything that exists has an explanation of its existence. This has prompted the following objection:

If premise 1 is true, then God must have an explanation of his existence. The explanation of God's existence must be some other being greater than God. That's impossible; therefore, premise 1 must be false.

However, this objection is a misunderstanding of what Leibniz meant by "explanation". According to Leibniz, there are 2 kinds of explanations:

•    Beings that exist necessarily (necessary beings), or

•    Beings that are produced by an external cause (contingent beings).

Necessary beings are those that exist by a necessity of their own nature. In other words it is impossible for them not to exist. Some mathematicians believe that abstract mathematical objects, such as numbers, sets and shapes (e.g. circles and triangles) exist necessarily. Necessary beings are not caused to exist by an external entity and necessarily exist in all possible worlds.

On the other hand, contingent beings are caused to exist by something else. They do not exist necessarily and exist because something else produced them. This includes physical objects such as people, planets and galaxies. It is easy to imagine possible worlds in which these objects do not exist. Thus we could expand premise 1 as follows:

Premise 1: Everything that exists has an explanation of its existence, either due to the necessity of its own nature or due to an external cause.

It is impossible for God to have a cause. Thus Leibniz's argument is really for a God who must be a necessary, uncaused being. Thus the argument helps to define and constrain what we mean by "God".

•    Objection 2
Some atheists have objected that premise 1 is true of everything in the universe, but not the universe itself. However, it is arbitrary to claim that the universe is an exception. After all, even Leibniz did not exclude God from premise 1. This objection is also unscientific. Modern cosmology is devoted to a search for the explanation of the universe's existence, and rightly so. To give up and declare that the universe exists reasonlessly would stymie science.

•    Objection 3
Some atheists have suggested that it is impossible for the universe to have an explanation of its existence. Their argument goes something like this:

The explanation of the universe would have to be a prior state of affairs in which the universe did not exist. This would be nothingness. Nothingness cannot cause anything, Therefore the universe exists inexplicably.

This objection assumes that the universe includes everything and that there is nothing outside the universe, including God. The objection has excluded the possibility of God by definition. However, an alternative definition is that the universe contains all physical things, but that God exists apart from the universe. This objection assumes that atheism is true and argues in a circle. It is clearly begging the question.

•    Premise 2

Premise 2 states that if the universe has an explanation of its existence, then that explanation is God. This appears controversial at first, but in fact it is not. This is because atheists typically argue that if atheism is true, then the universe has no explanation of its existence. Thus if there is an explanation of the universe, then atheism must be false (i.e., God is the explanation of the universe). This conclusion follows from the following rule of logic: If p => (implies) Q, then "not Q" => "not P". An example is, "If it is raining, then there are clouds. Thus if there are no clouds, then it is not raining."

All atheistic alternatives now seem to be closed, but not quite. Some atheists have claimed that the universe exists necessarily (i.e., the universe is a necessary being). If that were the case, then the universe would not require an external cause. However, this proposal is generally not taken seriously for the following reasons. None of the universe's components seem to exist necessarily. They could all fail to exist. Other material configurations are possible, the elementary particles could have been different and the physical laws could have been different as well. Thus the universe cannot exist necessarily.

However, is it valid to resort to God as the explanation of the universe? Are there other possibilities? The universe consists of space, time, matter and energy. The cause of the universe must be something other than the universe. Thus the cause of the universe must be non-physical, immaterial and beyond space and time. Abstract objects are not possible candidates as they have no causal relationships. Thus it seems reasonable to conclude that the cause of the universe must be a transcendent, unembodied mind.


Conclusion

Leibniz's argument from the Principle of sufficient reason is an interesting argument for the existence of God, but it goes beyond just God's existence. It also constrains the attributes of God to be a transcendent, uncaused, unembodied mind, who necessarily exists. In other words, this being is what the major monotheistic religions traditionally refer to as "God".

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Am I the only one that hates chocolate pretzels?
yes you are,pretzels are awesome
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Iran launches missles at U.S. bases in Iraq
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@Username
yeah ok, NOPE they shot down a plane and civilians dead at the terrorists funeral, Iran cant fight
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Iraq?
Us and Iran are fighting in Iraq, I think they will be ANOTHER proxy war there
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Iran launches missles at U.S. bases in Iraq
AND THEY MISSED LOL IRAN SUCKS
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The New Like Leader
cool just came back here
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NFL Playoffs 2020 Predictions
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@Vader
yep
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NFL Playoffs 2020 Predictions
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@Vader
yeah but there is no clear solution

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NFL Playoffs 2020 Predictions
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@Vader
dude I agree the OT is fucked, but the bad penalties went both ways
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NFL Playoffs 2020 Predictions
Mahomes should have beat Brady last year, but sadly, the gods strike again with bad penalties

no.end of story

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if your dick or balls are too fucked up, you can't enter the assembly of the lord
YAY BrotherD is back!
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DART Bard, 1st Edition, 1/3/2020
nice
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NFL Playoffs 2020 Predictions
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@Vader
seattle wins, no surprise, against green bay is going to be real good

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NFL Playoffs 2020 Predictions
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@Vader
they were more determined than us, end of story
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NFL Playoffs 2020 Predictions
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@Vader
Im not upset as I visibly remeber two lost superbowls, a wild card is meh, I can enjoy the playoffs
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NFL Playoffs 2020 Predictions
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@Vader
yeah I knew they were going to lose,didn't have them in it, but I'm not upset, been through losing before as a pats fan
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Quassim Solemani is Dead
FINALLFY FFS
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What will you guys do if you become the leader of a Mars society?
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@DynamicSquid
Oh yeaH, I will ShoOt 1 octIllioN PUTIN ,mIssilEs at You!
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What will you guys do if you become the leader of a Mars society?
I will destory Earth!
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Should churches give free psychological evaluations
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@Singularity
why didnt you tell me
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Happy New Year DART
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@Discipulus_Didicit
cool
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Did any debater change your mind on an issue?
never have changed my mind about my beliefs since I have been here
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Happy New Year DART
Happy New Year though!
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