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FLRW

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Total posts: 5,447

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The Anthropic Objection to the Teleological Argument
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@TheMorningsStar
The cosmological and teleological arguments are two types of arguments for the existence of God. They are different from other types in that they are about the entire universe; the cosmological argument seeks to find a causal explanation of why some universe exists, and the teleological argument seeks to find an explanation of the designed or apparently designed nature of the universe. In this way they differ from the ontological and conceptual arguments, which are a priori, and from the arguments from mystical experience, moral conscience, and human consciousness. The cosmological and teleological arguments are about the empirical facts of the universe, the mystical, moral, and consciousness arguments are about empirical facts concerning humans, and the ontological and conceptualist arguments endeavor to deduce God's existence from a priori concepts alone, without needing any observational evidence about the universe.
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The Anthropic Objection to the Teleological Argument
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@TheMorningsStar
The Kalam cosmology argument is a Teleological Argument and Manuel Berger's response is an Anthropic Objection.
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The Anthropic Objection to the Teleological Argument
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@TheMorningsStar
Why does William Lane Craig always win on the point of the Kalam cosmology argument if the argument is so weak according to atheists?

An answer provided by Manuel Berger, Master Physics, Free University of Brussels, is :

I have never seen him win a debate, but he can dazzle gullible people. His tactic is to talk a lot, adding in a lot of irrelevant data, over-complexing everything, so that the logical fallacies somehow escape your attention.
Once you see the transcript of what he said, you can start scrapping everything that was irrelevant to his point and only clear logical fallacies remain.
The Kalam Cosmology Argument is build for gullible people. Every sentence here contains a logical fallacy and it builds on the ignorance of the audience.
People on this forum have already pointed out why each sentence is a joke on a pure logical level, but on top of that he takes a lot of liberty with physical concepts
  • When you say everything begins to exist or is created, you must realize that within our universe, on a physical level, things just get re-arranged. When you create a sculpture, you rearrange the basic material.
  • Causes are not entities: the cause of stars forming is gravity, not a creator.
  • When he talks about “everything that … ”, you have to realize that everything in the universe and the universe are 2 entirely different concepts.
  • When he says “The universe began to exist”, he is stating a hypothesis that is part of popular science news, but there is no consensus about that among phycisists
He does not use specific terms that would get shot immediately, he just makes the fuzzy errors that sound fine for people that do not care about physics.
If you make a more detailed story, you would lose the audience:
(disclaimer: just a scenario, prove it to be wrong)
  1. An uncaused piece of empty space-time existed.
  2. A Higgs field has to form immediately (we know that).
  3. The Higgs field cause the piece of space to inflate (we know that too)
  4. Because of conservation of energy, during inflation, the negative expansion energy has to be balanced by the formation of energy within this space, mainly particles. (basic application of energy conservation)
  5. These particles will clutter because of gravity and form stars.
  6. … the next steps are well observed by science.

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What's your best argument for God's existence?
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@Tarik
Morality is proof of God’s existence because that is what He represents, morality.
LOL
1 Samuel15:3  Now, go and attack Amalek. Completely destroy all that they have. Don’t spare them, but put to death both man and woman, child and infant, both ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’”
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The Occult
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@RoderickSpode
The object that moved around the board spelling out names and ages actually lifted off of the board at one moment, which is impossible since our fingers were barely touching the object.
It's called static electricity.  Research has shown that as a word or answer began to form, the eye movements increased, indicating that participants brains were calculating and predicting potential answers and sending their eyes to potential next letters, thus subconsciously guiding their hands to glide the planchettes to them. The pair on the planchette subconsciously take turns taking control as their brains feel more confident tin their choices.
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What's your best argument for God's existence?
The only true God is Aphrodite. Aphrodite was the goddess of love, sex, and beauty. Unsurprisingly for a love goddess, she was said to have emerged from the foam generated when the severed testicles of her father, Uranus, were thrown into the sea by his son, the Titan Cronus.
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Sacred Geometry of the Sun and Sirius A
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@janesix
1.73 is the square root of 3.
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What's your best argument for God's existence?
Is it a miracle when a healthy baby get pediatric cancer?
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The Kalam Cosmological Argument
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@Mopac
The fact that you are having an experience at all is proof that there is some form of reality. If there is some form of reality, reality as it truly is must exist. The Ultimate Reality is reality as it truly is. That is what we call God.

And that is why if you deny God, you are delusional.
Is that from the movie, One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest?
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I Didn’t Ask Anyone To Die For Me.
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@ethang5
Well, it does explain the Resurrection.
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I Didn’t Ask Anyone To Die For Me.
The story of Jesus Christ is perhaps the most well-known across the globe – but more than 2,000 years later, experts still seem to be finding out more information. One of the latest discoveries is that Jesus had a twin brother – also known as the apostle Thomas – and that it was actually Thomas who was seen after the supposed resurrection, and not Christ. Thomas, who was one of Christ’s original 12 followers, was given the full name Didymos Judas Thomas, something which has led certain sectors of Christianity to believe he was the twin of the Messiah, because his name literally has the word twin in it twice.
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I Didn’t Ask Anyone To Die For Me.
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@Mopac
John 13:23  Now there was leaning on Jesus’ bosom one of His disciples, whom Jesus loved. (New King James Version)

Does that mean Jesus was gay?
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Could There Really be a Multiverse?
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@Jarrett_Ludolph
Yes, there are probably plenty of other 3D movies.
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Sam Harris and Free Will
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@zedvictor4
It is a simulation because everything is composed of one dimensional strings and because of Superdeterminism we are virtually in a 3d movie.
Why, I don't know.
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Sam Harris and Free Will
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@Wagyu
Yes, spooky action at a distance proves your point. Physicist John Bell in 1980 stated; There is a way to escape the inference of superluminal speeds and spooky action at a distance. But it involves absolute determinism in the universe, the complete absence of free will. Suppose the world is super-deterministic, with not just inanimate nature running on behind-the-scenes clockwork, but with our behavior, including our belief that we are free to choose to do one experiment rather than another, absolutely predetermined, including the "decision" by the experimenter to carry out one set of measurements rather than another, the difficulty disappears. There is no need for a faster than light signal to tell particle A what measurement has been carried out on particle B, because the universe, including particle A, already "knows" what that measurement, and its outcome, will be.
Quantum Entanglement shows that this universe is a simulation.
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What's your best argument for God's existence?
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@Sum1hugme
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What's your best argument for God's existence?
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@Mopac
Richard Carrier has argued that the universe itself seems to be very ill-designed for life, because the vast majority of the space in the universe is utterly hostile to it. This is arguably unexpected on the hypothesis that the universe was designed by a god, especially a personal god. Carrier contends that such a god could have easily created a geocentric universe ex nihilo in the recent past, in which most of the volume of the universe is inhabitable by humans and other lifeforms— precisely the kind of universe that most humans believed in until the rise of modern science. While a personal god might have created the kind of universe we observe, Carrier contends that this is not the kind of universe we would most likely expect to see if such a god existed. He finally argues that, unlike theism, our observations about the nature of the universe are strongly expected on the hypothesis of atheism, since the universe would have to be vast, very old, and almost completely devoid of life if life were to have arisen by sheer chance.
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The atheist realty sucks
God really sucks.

CNN political reporter Andrew Kaczynski and wife and Wall Street Journal banking reporter Rachel Louise Ensign are mourning the loss of their 9-month-old daughter Francesca, who died on Christmas Eve after a cancer battle.

Thanks God she wasn't aborted, God had a plan for her.


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Dementia in heaven.
After more research, I don't think inflammatory responses will be a problem. The problem will be as Michal Linial, a professor of biological chemistry at the Hebrew University says.

Linial explained that “mRNA is a very fragile molecule, meaning it can be destroyed very easily... If you put mRNA on the table, for example, in a minute there will not be any mRNA leftover. This is as opposed to DNA, which is as stable as you get.”

She said that this fragility is true of the mRNA of any living thing, whether it belongs to a plant, bacteria, virus or human.

As such, she said the worry should not be that the mRNA won’t get into the cells and instead will stay outside, floating in the body and causing some kind of reaction. Rather the concern should be that if it doesn’t enter the cells, it will disintegrate and therefore be ineffective.

She said that while Moderna and Pfizer are based on new vaccine technologies, they are asking our bodies to do something they do every day: protein synthesis, the process where cells make proteins.

Moderna and Pfizer are simply delivering a specific mRNA sequence to our cells. Once the mRNA is in the cell, human biology takes over. Ribosomes read the code and build the protein, and the cells express the protein in the body.

Linial said she believes that the reason no mRNA vaccine has been developed yet is because there was just no need to move this fast on a vaccine until COVID-19 came along. She noted that most of the vaccines people take today were developed decades ago.

She said her concerns have less to do with the use of mRNA and more to do with the long-term efficacy of the vaccine, as well as other challenges that could cause something to go wrong and lead people to believe they are vaccinated when they are not.

For example, she said that because mRNA is so fragile, the Pfizer vaccine must be stored at negative 70 degrees Celsius. If the ideal environment is not maintained, the vaccine could “spoil” and become ineffective.

In addition, she said several questions remain, such as whether these vaccines will really be able to mount a sufficiently protective immune response and how long that immunity would last.

“It would be the worst [scenario] if people behave like they are immune but can still become infected,” Linial said.

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Dementia in heaven.
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@ethang5
There are unique and unknown risks to messenger RNA vaccines, including local and systemic inflammatory responses that could lead to autoimmune conditions.
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What is a "one-horse pony?"
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@fauxlaw
I'm not sure what missoeaking  is. Is it something you need Depends
for or are you just lying?
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I Didn’t Ask Anyone To Die For Me.
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@ethang5
No, it is not a quote from some web site. You can search and see that there is nothing to match it. I am one of the first
to prose this and I base it on the research paper, Authoritarianism, Religious Fundamentalism, and the Human Prefrontal Cortex,
which I have talked about before. I believe in the next 100 years there will be a massive shift to Humanism and an abandonment of
Religion.
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The Kalam Cosmological Argument
The child mortality rate in the United States, for children under the age of five, was 462.9 deaths per thousand births in 1800.
That is almost 50 percent. It looks like our Creator didn't have a PGE license (Professional God Engineering).
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The Kalam Cosmological Argument
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@Jarrett_Ludolph
 Quantum mechanics shows that the notion of causality can no longer be considered valid
per the Copenhagen Interpretation.
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I Didn’t Ask Anyone To Die For Me.
I believe that the Bible was written by people that had lesions in subregions of the prefrontal cortex. Because there was no science
at the time to refute these supernatural events, people who did not have this disfunctioning brain problem thought that maybe what they said was real.
We know now that the Inability to detect sarcasm and lies may be early signs of dementia.
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I Didn’t Ask Anyone To Die For Me.
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@ethang5
The social communicative function of irony suggests a distinct
role for ventromedial (VM) regions within the frontal lobes, as
opposed to dorsolateral (DL) regions. Whereas DL prefrontal
regions have been associated with executive functions, VM lesions
have been shown to result in impaired social skills, such as social
judgment (Eslinger & Damasio, 1985) and decision making (Bechara,
Damasio, Tranel, & Anderson, 1998). Thus, if patients with
lesions in subregions of the prefrontal cortex differ in their deficit
in understanding sarcasm, this would suggest that specific areas
within the prefrontal cortex are crucial to the mediation of comprehension
of sarcastic utterances.

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I Didn’t Ask Anyone To Die For Me.
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@ethang5
What type of evidence would you consider valid for God? I ask every militant atheist that question, they all dodge.
I would say speaking to the world through a burning bush on the Jim Bakker show would be valid.
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How biased in the US Education System in History as a subject
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@zedvictor4
It's an interesting thing that Darwin was a Christian when he wrote Origin of Species. He became an agnostic later in life
because of the damage the loss of his daughter at a young age did to his belief in a loving God.

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Stupid things atheists say.
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@ethang5
And why should this create difficulties for the flood geology model? A "model" of your creation I might note.
Flood geology (also creation geology or diluvial geology) is the attempt to interpret and reconcile geological features of the Earth in accordance with a literal belief in the global flood described in Genesis 6–8. In the early 19th century, diluvial geologists hypothesized that specific surface features provided evidence of a worldwide flood which had followed earlier geological eras; after further investigation they agreed that these features resulted from local floods or from glaciers. In the 20th century, young-Earth creationists revived flood geology as an overarching concept in their opposition to evolution, assuming a recent six-day Creation and cataclysmic geological changes during the Biblical Deluge, and incorporating creationist explanations of the sequences of rock strata.
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Stupid things atheists say.
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@ethang5
Let me ask you a simple question. Do you think Noah's flood covered the whole planet?
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Stupid things atheists say.
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@ethang5
You don't need a Ph.D. in geology to know that desert dunes and other desert deposits do not form under roaring flood waters. These require not only time, but also dry land. The Flood of Noah supplies neither.

The Old Red Sandstone, which looks for all the world like a collection of fossilized desert dunes, was formed in Devonian times. It has outcrops extending from the British Isles to Poland and Russia's White Sea, and from Germany to Norway (Gilluly, Waters, and Woodford, 1968). Outcrops have even been found in Greenland and North America. In Devonian times, before North America and Europe drifted apart, these dunes covered an entire semi-arid continent.

Several lines of evidence derived from this great geologic formation create difficulties for the flood geology model. For instance, the interfingering of these sandstones with marine sediments shows that the shoreline of this continent advanced and retreated several times. Thus the desert rocks are entangled with rocks that the flood geology model says were formed within the one-year-long flood. Also, redbeds, consisting partly of rust formed above sea level, are also found in this formation. These would not have been formed in any catastrophic flood. The Old Red Sandstones also contain typical playas, complete with their characteristic cubic salt crystal deposits. These are desert salt-pan deposits formed after the rainy-season lakes evaporate. Today, in the Mojave Desert, playas can become lakes for a couple of weeks, only to dry out again, leaving a crust of salt deposits like those found in the Red Sandstone. Although a few freshwater ponds did exist on this ancient semi-arid continent, they dried up from time to time. So, we find fossil mud cracks in the shales that came from the dried-up pond bottoms, and we find fossil lungfish, a type of fish that can survive drought by building a mud cocoon in the pond bottom and breathing air. Hundreds of square miles of fossil sand dunes in these deposits contain cross-bedding and sand-blasted pebbles (ventifacts) of the sort found in modern desert sand dunes, and in no other kind of modern sediment. These different independent lines of evidence converge to show that the Old Red Sandstones almost certainly formed over thousands of years in a dry climate, not in any kind of flood catastrophe.



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Dementia in heaven.
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@zedvictor4
But I must stress...Definitely no floaty about bloke that looks like Gandalf...And the bible is still, just a naive fantasy version of the the same old hypothesis....That is to say, creation and evolution with a purpose.
And as Einstein said, " the Bible a collection of honorable, but still primitive, legends which are nevertheless pretty childish.”
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Dementia in heaven.
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@EtrnlVw
Under anesthesia, you consciously experience nothing, not even the feeling of time passing. When I had a two-hour operation, it was as if I closed my eyes and opened them two seconds later. I'm interested in how people have reconciled the idea of a soul so separate that it will go on to experience things consciously after death with the ability of a drug to cause a person to experience absolutely nothing consciously. Using the usual Christian idea of a soul, you would assume that the soul would experience at least the level of consciousness it would experience after death.
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Dementia in heaven.
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@EtrnlVw
In sharp contrast to popular opinion, the current scientific consensus rejects any notion of soul or spirit as separate from the activity of the brain. This is what Francis Crick, codiscoverer of the structure of DNA, called “The Astonishing Hypothesis.” In Crick’s words, “You, your joys and your sorrows, your memories and your ambitions, your sense of personal iden­tity and free will, are in fact no more than the behavior of a vast assembly of nerve cells and their associated molecules.” Reflecting on what he calls the scientific image of persons, the philosopher Owen Flanagan stressed that we “need to demythologize persons by rooting out certain unfounded ideas from the perennial philosophy. Letting go of the belief in souls is a minimal requirement. In fact, desouling is the primary operation of the scientific image.” The weight of the scientific consensus is distributed over many dis­ciplines and includes, as we would expect, the sciences of the mind (psy­chology, neuroscience, cognitive science). 
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Dementia in heaven.
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@ethang5
What's a demented soul?
A Trump voter?
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Televangeles are all fake
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@Utanity
Televangelist Kenneth Copeland, 83, who has an estimated net worth of $760million, based in Texas, heads up Kenneth Copeland Ministries (KCM) and is one of the world's wealthiest pastors.
He has risen to notoriety in 2020 after a string of bizarre claims about the coronavirus pandemic.
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Could Science prove an "objective morality"?
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@MarkWebberFan
Many philosophers think we can know some moral propositions a priori. Few deny that we can know a priori or the proposition that if it would be wrong not to do something, one ought to do it or other propositions that are obviously true because of definitions. But some philosophers claim we can know more significant moral propositions a priori.
On one familiar view, we can know a priori the fundamental moral principle (or principles), e.g., the principle that one ought to perform the action that has the overall best consequences, or the principle that one ought to act in accordance with virtue, or whatever the basic moral principle really is. Some hold we can know the principle via analysis or because it defines the moral term it is about. We can then know every day moral propositions about particular actions or types of actions by inferring them from the fundamental principle in conjunction with empirical facts.
However, some theorists claim we can know many more moral propositions a priori, in particular, propositions that are not so closely tied to the meaning or reference of moral terms. Others go farther, claiming that most or all moral claims can be known a priori, or even that moral claims can be known only a priori.
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Could Science prove an "objective morality"?
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@MarkWebberFan
The answer is very complex, see On the Parallel BetweenMathematics and Morals  by JAMES FRANKLIN.
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A Fallen, Fine Tuned Universe
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@janesix
Are the spirals seen in nature based on the golden ratio 1.618 ? Some are, but most are not. The spirals most commonly seen in nature are equi-angular (aka logarithmic) spirals. This simply means that the spiral expands at a constant rate. This occurs because it creates an even flow of energy or distribution of tension. This has nothing at all to do with the golden ratio. Accordingly, all the illustrations of spiral arms of galaxies, curves of ocean waves, spiraling hurricanes, etc. that are incorrectly identified as a “Golden Ratio” or “Golden Spiral” should be relabeled or removed to avoid further confusion in perpetuating this golden ratio myth. There is another type of spiral that is related to the golden ratio, however, that occurs very commonly in nature. The spirals that appear in pine cones, pineapples, seed pods and similar plant structures are usually based on two successive numbers of the Fibonacci sequence. For example, if there are eight spirals in a clockwise direction, you will find thirteen spirals going in the counter-clockwise direction.  Neither of these spirals is necessarily a “golden ratio” spiral on its own, but the ratio of these successive Fibonacci numbers approximates the golden ratio
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A Fallen, Fine Tuned Universe
A 'missing link' between humans and our ape-like ancestors that lived around 12 million years ago has been unearthed in Bavaria, Germany.
According to researchers, the bizarre creature had arms suited to hanging in trees but legs like ours — making it like an 'ape and human in one'.
The discovery provides the first image of what the last common ancestor of apes and humans looked like — with fossils from this period being rare.
Named Danuvius guggenmosi after a Celtic river god, the find of the broad-chested primate also pushes back the timeline for when walking on two feet began.
Based on the shape of Danuvius' bones, experts have concluded that the animal moved around in a unique way, dubbed 'extended limb clambering'.
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A Fallen, Fine Tuned Universe
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@Jarrett_Ludolph
Yes, a baby born with tetra-amelia  – defined as the absence of all limbs and also has severe malformations of the face, heart, skeleton and genitals
is proof  of a designer.  Well maybe a drunk one.

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trump might stand a chance with this texas law suit
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@ethang5
Often misinterpreted to mean that African Americans as individuals are considered three-fifths of a person or that they are three-fifths of a citizen of the U.S., the three-fifths clause (Article I, Section 2, of the U.S. Constitution of 1787) in fact declared that for purposes of representation in Congress, enslaved blacks in a state would be counted as three-fifths of the number of white inhabitants of that state.
The three-fifths clause was part of a series of compromises enacted by the Constitutional Convention of 1787. The most notable other clauses prohibited slavery in the Northwest Territories and ended U.S. participation in the international slave trade in 1807. These compromises reflected Virginia Constitutional Convention delegate (and future U.S. President) James Madison’s observation that “…the States were divided into different interests not by their…size…but principally from their having or not having slaves.”
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trump might stand a chance with this texas law suit
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@ethang5
Sort of like how the Supreme Court found Africans to be only 1/16th a man?
This is not true.
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let's talk technology
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@3RU7AL
Yes, Chinese scientists claim to have built a quantum computer that is able to perform certain computations nearly 100 trillion times faster than the world’s most advanced supercomputer, representing the first milestone in the country’s efforts to develop the technology.
The researchers have built a quantum computer prototype that is able to detect up to 76 photons through Gaussian boson sampling, a standard simulation algorithm, the state-run Xinhua news agency said, citing research published in Science magazine. That’s exponentially faster than existing supercomputers.
The breakthrough represents a quantum computational advantage, also known as quantum supremacy, in which no traditional computer can perform the same task in a reasonable amount of time and is unlikely to be overturned by algorithmic or hardware improvements, according to the research.
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let's talk technology
Quantum Computing.  Rather than store information using bits represented by 0s or 1s as conventional digital computers do, quantum computers use quantum bits, or qubits, to encode information as 0s, 1s, or both at the same time. This superposition of states—along with the other quantum mechanical phenomena of entanglement and tunneling—enables quantum computers to manipulate enormous combinations of states at once.
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Concerning the validity of I.Q.
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@zedvictor4
Thank you, I accept your apology since you said too.
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Concerning the validity of I.Q.
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@zedvictor4
THE 18 COMES FROM ADDING UP 1,2,5,1,4,5=18, LIKE I SAID, YOU MADE IT UP.
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Concerning the validity of I.Q.
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@zedvictor4
But do you possess the intellectual ability to tell me why.
Yes, you made it up.
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Why do you believe as you do?
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@janesix
1 dimensional strings have probably always existed.
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Could Science prove an "objective morality"?
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@3RU7AL
Roughly speaking, the three moral axioms are (i) Live and let live, (ii) Tell the truth to those who have a right to know it, and (iii) Respect the environment. These are subject to three requirements, namely, utility, reasonableness, and beauty.
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