Total posts: 28,020
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@Sidewalker
No no no.
More MSNBC. What you don't know can't possibly hurt you. Ignorance is bliss.
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@Savant
The difference in how we judge things retroactively is precisely my point.
There's a propaganda factor that goes into that calculation as bad things are often censored and forgotten by the very entity that creates the policies.
Often the policies remain and nobody can explain why they exist.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
For every Authoritarian policy that became accepted over time, I am sure there are many more that were not accepted. Take the recent example of authoritarian Covid policies that we now know were completely wrong and unacceptable. We just tend to censor over time the crappy things the government did to people.
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@b9_ntt
The people that complained had their constitutional rights removed with Habeus Corpus.
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@TWS1405_2
Maybe Fanchick is trying to say Blue States are racist for having less black people living in them.
MSNBC surely had that on a show or the WAPO surely did an article on that.
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@Best.Korea
If only people would just drink the MSNBC rainbow koolaid, people in Democrat cities would know that 2+2 is 5 and crime is really going down along with killings as criminals are refused prison stays.
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@Intelligence_06
Altruism is only worth something to the seller and rarely to the buyer. People are generally skeptical of free shit. And for good reason.
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@Sidewalker
It's possible to treat schizophrenics, alcoholics, drug addicts, depression, suicide, anorexia, bulimia with dignity without appeasing their impulses that extend from mental disorder. Therefore, it should be possible to treat transgender people with dignity without appeasing their impulses that extend from mental disorder.
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@Intelligence_06
Being a billionaire who exploits a general portion of the population should not be seen as success.
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Seems like matrix is in balance. Continue with program001 MSNBC.exe.
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@PREZ-HILTON
Hay now!, you are going to trigger a substack overflow error in the NPC matrix!
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@PREZ-HILTON
I'm having a nice relaxed whiskey night.
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@PREZ-HILTON
We really need to clone Joseph Goebbels to get all this propaganda back on track.
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Seems like Fanchick hit an overflow error. We shall wait for his reboot.
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Especially if he read the WAPO like a dedicated Fanchick. So many lives senselessly lost due to propaganda failure.
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If only he watched MSNBC like a real Fanchick, people would still be alive today.
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@Best.Korea
I hope Fanchick can explain all of this for us.
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@Kaitlyn
You have to watch MSNBC like Fanchick if you want to become truly intelligent.
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@Intelligence_06
Who did Oprah Winfrey, Kanye, and Michael Jordan exploit?
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It is Win Win.
Not for hard working poor people. It most assuredly is an L for them.
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@HistoryBuff
Are you saying progressives would rather see Ukrainians massacred?
Not at all. I am saying there are many progressives that say we shouldn't continue to fund the killing if sending more money delays real peace talks and depletes funds that Americans need.
you don't save anything by leaving Ukraine to die
Ukraine is already destroyed from the 2014-present civil war, there isn't much left to save. Reconstruction should be pursued at this point. Concessions made. Killings ended, corruption staved off.
Russia has made it clear it wants it's empire back.
Russia failed to advance past the Donbas. They won't try it again.
However, Ukraine has made it clear they want the Donbas back. That isn't going to happen either.
USA is literally funding an endless stalemate to the tune of billions of dollars enriching a massive amount of corrupt people in the USA, Ukraine and Russia...and Americans are paying for all of that. And we are asked to care based on a massive amount of lies about "saving the world"
We did the EXACT same thing in Iraq, and people are just as gullible today as they were in the Bush years. The only thing that fundamentally changed is that left wing corporate media has gotten much better at censoring any anti-war discussions. If the price of saving one arbitrary corrupt Democracy is this, then a corrupt democracy like that most assuredly isn't worth saving. Ukraine will never be an American colony, no matter how many billions we toss at it. We are just making the rich richer and the poor poorer.... status quo...business as usual.
Will the real progressives please stand up for America while there is an America left.
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"Trump’s media company is failing miserably"
-Fanchick
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I don't deny that there is corruption in Ukraine. But to say that there is less corruption in Russia is a joke so it's kind of a moot point.
But what's not a moot point is that many progressives would rather see Americans being taken care of rather than choosing to support corruption under the lie of a false dichotomy.
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@HistoryBuff
but there was no legitimate vote. there was a sham with no oversight. they could claim the results were whatever they wanted.
That's the whole point. The US can arbitrarily choose which types of Democracy to support and which revolts to support.
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Here's some more evidence as to the current corruption in Kiev and why the Donbas won't surrender to such a corrupt regime.
During a meeting with CIA Director William Burns in January in Kyiv, the topic of corruption was specifically brought up with the Ukrainian President. An intelligence official with firsthand knowledge of the encounter informed the journalist that his message to Volodymyr Zelensky was straight out of a 1950s gangster film.
“The senior generals and government officials in Kyiv were angry at what they saw as Zelensky’s greed, so Burns told the Ukrainian president, because he was taking a larger share of the skim money than was going to the generals.” he unveiled.
“Burns also presented Zelensky with a list of thirty-five generals and senior officials whose corruption was known to the CIA and others in the American government. Zelensky responded to the American pressure ten days later by publicly dismissing ten of the most ostentatious officials on the list and doing little else,” he added.
The ten people he fired were boasting openly about their wealth and cruising about Kyiv in their new Mercedes...
https://www.businessinsider.com/zelenskyy-fires-top-officials-corruption-scandal-vacation-war-2023-1
Most of the NATO non oil exporters clearly don't want this war to escalate.
But American War Propaganda and continued funding to a corrupt regime makes that escalation more likely with every passing moment.
Just so you know, there are plenty of progressives out there that actually want to turn the corrupt war machine back into US welfare for the people of the US.
"And they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more."
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@HistoryBuff
you know what's more important than oil? Russian tanks invading poland or Lithuania. And Russia has already said they want that land back.
And yet, The NATO members that do not export oil do not seem nearly as concerned as the US over the fate of Ukraine. That's a pretty good indicator about what this war is really about.
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@HistoryBuff
Lol give me a chance to address some of your points. I can't type super fast.
you are quoting the stat for the city of doentsk, not the Oblast (state). they were the largest group (by 2%) in that specific city. In the whole Oblast, they made up 39% and Ukranians were 56.9%
There was a referendum held in the Donetsk and Luhansk regions of Ukraine in May 2014. These regions, collectively known as Donbass, had been the site of political unrest and separatist movements following the ousting of Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych earlier that year.
The referendum was organized by separatist groups in the region who were seeking greater autonomy and, in some cases, outright independence from Ukraine. The referendum asked voters whether they supported the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic and Luhansk People's Republic, and whether they favored independence from Ukraine.
Something to note was that people who identified as ethnically Ukrainian saw autonomy and independence as a better choice over thin corruption and instability coming out of Kiev, which we now know is fact with the reported skimming of millions of dollars from the US funds to Zelenskys favorite generals.
We aren't talking about a fringe group here.
The separatist groups claimed that the majority of voters supported independence, with some reports suggesting a turnout of over 70%. Ukraine and NATO quite literally threw democracy out the window by refusing to recognize the will of the people of the Donbass.
The DPR and LPR are clearly backed by the majority of the people there and it most certainly will take some form of ethnic cleansing at this point similar to what we saw in Bosnia
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It's about containing Russian imperial expansion.
With our history of proxy wars over oil (nearly all of them waged with the cover of "saving democracy") It's far more likely this war is over who will control the supply of oil and who will control the petrodollar.
Biden losing Saudi Arabia as an economic ally and China buying Russian oil in Yuan instead of the petrodollar means we already lost that part of the war.
And there are multiple NATO members
One of them who was buying oil from the Russians and we blew up that pipeline. At least for that NATO member, oil is more important than "containing expansion" or whatever cover reason you think applies to describe yet another war for oil.
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@Sidewalker
It's possible to treat schizophrenics, alcoholics, drug addicts, depression, suicide, anorexia, bulimia with dignity without appeasing their impulses that extend from mental disorder. Therefore, it should be possible to treat transgender people with dignity without appeasing their impulses that extend from mental disorder.
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oooh fanchick arrived!
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@Sidewalker
I blame will Smith for letting Robin Williams upstage his Genie.
Guy was better at boxing and slapping.
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@Sidewalker
Hollyweird making anything remotely entertaining also goes against science.
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@PREZ-HILTON
Tell her to get back in the kitchen and watch MSNBC,
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@timjohnston
Forgot to tell those countries what exactly, to have charismatic leaders indoctrinating their citizens about their duty to the nation with endless lectures about how perfect their nation was? Pretty sure they had that covered.
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@Best.Korea
Odd, I thought this would be a slam dunk for Fanchick.
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Come on Fanchick, come here and own us.
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Just take some time off from the MSNBC binge and take a look.
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@HistoryBuff
Here is a VERY good example for being anti war while also being anti Russian.
At some point you have to ask just how much we are going to pay to support Zelensky. Is nuclear war really worth that strip of the Donbas?
There's no free lunch to punish Russia. At some point you can still retain your hatred for Russia while negotiating peace and concessions. After all, didn't we already do that in Afghanistan? Vietnam? Korea? Iraq? Syria? you know, the endless proxy war list?
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Fanchick, come help out the Gay Parade thread.
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@HistoryBuff
Also, according to your own 2001 source, you might have missed this:
The entire war is over who is going to control the Donbas. We helped greatly to incite the Euro rebellion to overthrow democracy in 2014 in Ukraine as a drastic measure to stop the Donbas from declaring independence. So it's extremely relevant to note that Donetsk is much more culturally Russian than Ukraine.
Whether you think it was ethical or not for America to intervene and support a civil insurrection in 2014 is irrelevant to the real question I am asking you. What are the Ukrainians going to do to all those people living there NOW if the US helps them win that Civil War?
Because there is no doubt that if the US continues to support the civil war and Russia chooses to withdraw from the Donetsk that Western Ukraine will probably win that civil war with huge civilian casualties. What do you think is going to happen to all those ethnic Russians? Seems like Bosnia all over again. We shouldn't be there.
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@HistoryBuff
According to the 2001 census,
Ok what about the 2022 census?
if they think they are russians, they should presumably move to russia. If they want to be Ukrainian, they are certainly welcome to do that too. Although after murdering their countrymen for the last 8 years, they may not be as welcome any more.
So a forced displacement of an entire culture based on the language they speak. Ok just so we are clear.
You should probably skim this:
As I think you implied the Donbas is full of Ukrainians. That concurrent war is very relevant.
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@PREZ-HILTON
Not giving your wife 90+ percent of your earnings and a 2nd mortgage is most certainly grounds for spousal abuse.
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@TWS1405_2
Apparently, Fla legislation protecting kids from the Pride parade means "Don't Parade Gay Bill"
Maybe that is the MSNBC take on this?
We really need Fanchick to help us out here.
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