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@ADreamOfLiberty
This is why I miss users like Danielle and Coal, because they will take all your assertions and run a very hard devil's advocate counter, not just to change anyone's mind, but also to force you to substantiate your current mindset. An unexamined mind is a worthless mind,
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@n8nrgim
The same authority used to keep Dreamers in the country.
As the Executive Branch, he can choose to not enforce laws for as long as Congress will allow it.
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Only to evil men
When good Democrats do nothing.
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That's what Putin thought.
So 16 years at least of unopposed rule. That's comforting
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@oromagi
Excellent reasons for lovers of freedom to never, ever vote for any Republican ever again.
You assume there will be a country left to vote in after they retaliate against the Democrats.
Par for the course will be 2 impeachments minimum. I predict 4.
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None of this will matter after 2022 when Congress declares all Democrats as domestic terrorists and opens up endless investigations, possibly censoring any speech that defies the GOP Congress.
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@ILikePie5
You see all the liberal heads exploding when Musk buys Twitter. That’s all you need to know about who’s doing the censorship lol
A bunch of deplorables over at Twitter I tell ya.
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@Double_R
This is not remotely similar to what happened to Disney.
You are right. They were not charged with fake crimes or impeached either.
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@thett3
It sends 2 messages that are pretty bad.
1) no matter what you choose to do with your life, other people will pick up the tab for it if you are in a protected group.
2) this is essentially also a gift to universities encouraging universities to sell more worthless degrees at inflated prices with the sales pitch that it will be paid for by others.
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@thett3
I’m sure Trump tax returns were obtained in a totally legal and legitimate manner as well. It doesn’t matter in my view, the counter to misinformation is good information not censorship.
You would think.
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@Athias
Yes, and it's incumbent upon those who maintain the principle to denounce violations of it every time they are aware. It doesn't necessarily have to start in public discourse; it can start here.
It's not even a matter of precedent at this point. People on the right who would normally be principled are now out for revenge. 2022 midterms isn't going to be pretty at all.
And since the left will go down kicking and screaming with the political retaliations, there can be no reconciliation.
Desantis is just giving us a glimpse of what the Congressional activities and investigations are going to be like when the GOP takes over in 2022.
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@Athias
While I agree with the principle, the last 6 years have established a precedence that allows for the political retaliation against any political opposition. You can't expect all that to change over a matter of days as the public has accepted numerous violations as the normal business of politics. Trump warned that what they did to him will be done to others. Now we are just starting to see what he meant by that.
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@Athias
and maintain that the Manhattan D.A. investigation into Donald Trump was a political attack.
A political attack that would never have happened if Trump never said the words "I am running for President"
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@3RU7AL
They are equally clear cut. Trump was a beloved celebrity until he uttered those words. There are over 100 instances of documented government retaliation against Trump after those words were spoken vs the one against Disney.
There is nothing magical in 2022 that makes one a violation and another not a violation.
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@3RU7AL
There are hundreds of instances of political retaliation once Trump uttered those words.
are you suggesting that the investigation ended because trump ran for president.
Check the date on the article.
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@3RU7AL
an "attack on free speech" is any retaliation by official government offices and or officers specifically as a reaction to some written or spoken (or other artistic and or crude expression of) criticism
The two prosecutors leading the Manhattan district attorney’s investigation into former President Donald J. Trump and his business practices abruptly resigned on Wednesday amid a monthlong pause in their presentation of evidence to a grand jury, according to people with knowledge of the matter.
The unexpected development came not long after the high-stakes inquiry appeared to be gaining momentum and now throws its future into serious doubt.
The prosecutors, Carey R. Dunne and Mark F. Pomerantz, submitted their resignations because the new Manhattan district attorney, Alvin Bragg, indicated to them that he had doubts about moving forward with a case against Mr. Trump, the people said.
Mr. Pomerantz confirmed in a brief interview that he had resigned but declined to elaborate. Mr. Dunne declined to comment.
None of these government officials are going to be prosecuted for retaliating against the speech of Trump, even though they clearly reacted to Trump's words "I am running for President"
If this retaliation isn't a free speech violation, then no retaliation is.
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@ILikePie5
What seems inevitable is that Republicans are going to use the FBI to destroy their political opposition once they get their people in there. The public seems too apathetic to care about it though.
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I’ve never denied that. I’m just saying taking the high road forever is unsustainable. It’s not overtly wrong to say ideally I’d like free speech for everyone. Democrats clearly don’t support that. They’ve won all the social issues for the past couple of decades.
As has been said before, Disney executives have not lost one iota of their power to speak freely, considering they own multiple media platforms not available to most people. The only way Disney executives can be incarcerated in this instance is if they refuse to pay taxes to Florida. Until then, they can say whatever they want, whenever they want.
The issue isn't really about free speech. Politicians use the government to retaliate against political opposition at every chance. That has been going on since the founding of the country. The real problem is how much of this political retaliation society has been willing to tolerate as "business as usual"
Using the FBI to screen "misinformation" to censorship outlets while also fabricating misinformation as "credible evidence" against political enemies is definitely a recent thing. I found it really funny when a top FBI agent testified to Congress that he "lost" the Hunter Laptop evidence.....
"I’m holding the receipt from Mac’s Computer Repair, where in December 2019 they turned over this laptop to the FBI, and now you’re telling me right here, that as the assistant director of FBI cyber you don’t know where this is after it was turned over to you three years ago?"
Vorndran: "Yes, sir, that’s an accurate statement."
Some agency! Competent leadership!
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Bill Ruder, Assistant Secretary of Commerce in the Kennedy administration, acknowledged that "Our massive strategy [in the early 1960s] was to use the Fairness Doctrine to challenge and harass right-wing broadcasters and hope that the challenges would be so costly to them that they would be inhibited and decide it was too expensive to continue."
"The right-wingers operate on a strictly cash basis and it is for this reason that they are carried by so many small stations. Were our efforts to be continued on a year-round basis, we would find that many of these stations would consider the broadcasts of these programs bothersome and burdensome (especially if they are ultimately required to give us free time) and would start dropping the programs from their broadcast schedule. Left Wing outlets can be subsidized with the general funds."
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@cristo71
"Priority" is one of those Orwellian words corrupted by the left. It doesn't mean First on the to do list anymore. It now means somewhere up there on the list, who knows where, but it is up there.
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@cristo71
No, Trump has all the best words.
Fact check: Pants on Fire.
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Jared Kushner takes $2 billion dollars from the Saudi dictator last week
The same one who won't return Biden's calls asking for oil? The same one making lampoons mocking him on Saudi State TV?
World respected lol.
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@cristo71
“Misinformation” is merely “fake news” rebranded for people who hate Trump.
seems like it.
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The media’s censorship of Biden’s scandals had the strongest impact on this year’s election. According to our survey, more than one-third of Biden voters (35.4%) were unaware of the serious allegations brought against the Democratic nominee by Tara Reade, a former staffer who said Biden sexually assaulted her in the 1990s.
If they had known about Tara Reade’s sexual assault allegations, 8.9% told us they would have changed their vote — either switching to Trump or a 3rd party candidate, not voting for any presidential candidate, or not voting at all. By itself, this would have flipped all six of the swing states won by Biden (Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Nevada, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin), giving the President a win with 311 electoral college votes.
Even more Biden voters (45.1%) said they were unaware of the financial scandal enveloping Biden and his son, Hunter (a story infamously censored by Twitter and Facebook, as well as ignored by the liberal media). According to our poll, full awareness of the Hunter Biden scandal would have led 9.4% of Biden voters to abandon the Democratic candidate, flipping all six of the swing states he won to Trump, giving the President 311 electoral votes.
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@zedvictor4
preferred the old guy
Yeah, the old guy that didn't have a laptop scandal. Lots of Americans preferred that guy to the one now.
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@n8nrgim
democrats will censor speech when it's dangerous or it's misinformation.
You do realize the main reason Biden is in office is because of the censorship of the Hunter laptop, right?
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@Double_R
tell me where I am getting your position wrong?
It's clear that his position reflects on a deviation from the standard norm, the standard norm being that major corporations dictate policy to politicians at the expense of the general public (a major reason why all Americans are suffering right now) in exchange for political contributions.
His position is that in a healthy society, Government representatives hold the corporations that dictate policy accountable when those policies are detrimental to their constituents, even if it means a loss of political funding instead of conveniently working together with no opposition or accountability.
So for example, when donors tell Biden to shut down Oil and Gas production, he tells them to go pound sand when he realizes how much harm it will do to Americans instead of conveniently working hand in hand as he is now.
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@SkepticalOne
Are Democrats 'retaliating' against rich Democrats?!
See post 82
We had a huge legal battle over this 4 years ago and it went absolutely nowhere. It's not unconstitutional.
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@SkepticalOne
You equate being rich to expression and taxation as retaliation for this 'speech'.
Every rich person purchases lobbyists.
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@cristo71
Oh yeah. I was just trying to keep the convo simple by showing how every party abuses the tax code to punish their political enemies. Of course the tax code is not the only way a government can retaliate against political opposition. (such as shutting down the XL pipeline)
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@Double_R
The SALT exemptions are particularly funny example because it was Trump who removed the SALT deductions as a retaliation against all the Rich Democrats in your state of New York.
Where are all the lawsuits of the Rich Democrats against Trump? Nonexistant largely.
Biden also failed to reinstate the exemptions lulzsauce.
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@cristo71
That the OP attempts to frame the whole 1A violation controversy as unique to DeSantis’ actions should be an insult to everyone’s intelligence in this forum. IMO, DeSantis is just demonstrating that two can play this game…
Coal's meme on this is 100% accurate.
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@Double_R
And I also refuse to believe you do not understand that all tax exemptions are rewards and all removals of tax exemptions are retaliations.
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@Athias
The Democrats threaten to tax the rich millions of times every campaign cycle. (and sometimes they do it)
And yet, where are the retaliation lawsuits of the rich vs the government? Nonexistent largely.
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@Double_R
This couldn’t be any more obvious, he wasn’t trying to hide it.
Neither do the Democrats when they say they will tax the rich millions of times every campaign cycle.
And yet, where are the retaliation lawsuits of the rich vs the government? Nonexistent largely.
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@Double_R
If the government is getting rid of rule it itself implemented, that by itself would result in a smaller government.
If the abolishing a rule (which isn't an accurate term since tax loopholes are specific exceptions to an existing tax rule) allows for the confiscation of more funds, that makes government larger in scope and power. What kind of delusion would make you think more taxes means a smaller government?
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@Double_R
The metric is when the government retaliates against any individual or entity who has free speech as a direct result of their use of it.
That bar is set extremely high if you look at cases won in court for retaliation vs the number thrown out.
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@3RU7AL
None of which matter in a court of law. Abstractions are the first and last basis for having specific cases thrown out. You don't prove A case in a court. You prove THE case.
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@3RU7AL
Abstractions like "A defendant" or "A plaintiff" or "A grievance"
In a court of law the word "THE" is always used as opposed to the abstraction "A"
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@SkepticalOne
...every time its not.
Can you name a specific example or a set of universal criteria, or is this just an abstract concept?
Because abstractions have no place in a court of law.
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@bmdrocks21
By that definition, wouldn’t closing tax loopholes also be an act of big government?
Exactly.
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@3RU7AL
Pretty sure every government seizure affects a person with a form of speech.
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@Athias
One doesn't have to endorse or even accept Disney's position to acknowledge that their free speech was curtailed by Governor DeSantis.
If the metric of a free speech violation is any government seizure, then every government seizure is a constitutional violation.
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@3RU7AL
Not if you are born in Mexico to Mexican parents. You don't get that privilege. The entire world isn't granted the right of being an American. It's why we have a border.
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