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@ponikshiy
No, they get options. Nuke to the face or accept our will.
this would lead to israel's destruction. all it's neighbors would see it as an evil tyrant and the west is not going to help if they are threatening to use nukes offensively.
Categorically false. There is a reason why zorastrians are nearly extinct while jews, christians and Muslims coexist peacefully in Jerusalem.
because the muslims chose to tolerate other religions? I'm confused by what you are going for here.
Nobody is suggesting that nonsense
what? you literally just said Israel may have to expel all Palestinians and if any other country says no, Israel should nuke them. Those are yourwords.
I find it odd though that you are defending the side who wishes to kill 6 million plus jews currently in Israel in a new holocaust as the victims of the Nazi Jews.
im not siding with anyone. Both sides have done truly evil things. And those things are going to continue until a solution is negotiated. At the moment, Israel isn't willing to consider any negotiated solution. Therefore they are ensuring the violence goes on forever.
plus jews currently in Israel in a new holocaust as the victims of the Nazi Jews.
the jews are causing a new holocaust? that's a bit much but yeah, their behavior towards the Palestinians has been bad and it is getting worse. An Israeli caused holocaust is certainly a strong possibility. The fact that they are ordering a million Palestinians to flee their homes and are bombing the evacuation route is a pretty big warning sign of this.
This is moral cowardice. It's no different than a person defending a rapist by pointing out the victim was wearing a short skirt and was in a bad part of town.
lol no. It's like seeing a fight between two murderers and not choosing a side. Both Hamas and the Israeli government are murderers and torturers. They are both evil. I don't defend either of them. I want a negotiated solution to bring an end to the violence. And only Israel can do that.
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@Greyparrot
I'd say Joe probably victimized his son too by using him as a bag boy.
lol, there is absolutely no evidence for that. You are just making shit up now.
There is no evidence to support any suggestion that joe has broken the law or abused the power of his office. It is all just wishful thinking from republicans. Trump is/was corrupt so they need people to believe Joe is too. But they are just projecting.
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@Swagnarok
Actually, I was referencing the OP. I'm guessing you have some principled reason for supporting Palestine whereas Triangle just hates Jews.
oh fair enough. I have no idea what that guy's going on about. I wouldn't say I support either side. They both do terrible things.
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@cristo71
Ah, sneaky of you to insert a Palestine operating under western support in your hypothetical. You think Israel’s alliance with western nations and predisposition toward western values is just some cosmic coincidence rather than a conscious choice?
I think that Israel's reliance on the west has certainly had a large impact on what they do. They can't stray too far from what Washington is ok with because if they cut off support, Israel is dead (maybe not today, but certainly in the past). I think that if they had a free hand to do what they want, they would have forcefully expelled all the palestinians decades ago.
Even now, they have supposedly "western values" but they keep millions of people in an open air prison and blockade them. That isn't a western value that I am aware of.
I was saying that Hamas is antisemitic. This is not a controversial claim. You went off the fairway ever since you admitted their antisemitism is understandable.
I never said their anti-semitism is understandable. I said their hatred of Israel is. And I would agree that hamas as an organization is anti-semetic. But many of their supporters probably aren't.
Rather than merely speculating on it, look it up is what I’m saying. Do I need to give you the exact search terms now?
you barely even really hinted at what you are talking about. I can't possibly search if I have no idea what you are talking about.
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@Greyparrot
At this point, the only thing the republicans can prove is that Joe loves his son and his son is kinda shitty and abuses his family's name for money. The same could be said about Trump and his children. They use Trump's name to make tons of money. I guess the difference is Joe really loves his son....
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@cristo71
You have offered nothing to negate the concept I offered, which is that one’s ownership of territory depends upon one’s ability to defend it against invaders. Time to move on from that one…
of course I have. Because that line of thought died after ww2. The international system is predicated on the idea that borders should not be redrawn by force.
You believe that if the balance of power were reversed, the behaviors would simply be reversed between the Israelis and Palestinians. I disagree. I think if Palestinians had a large military and nukes and the Israelis had only small rockets and such, the situation would be quite different. As this is all hypothetical, we can just call that one an “agree to disagree.”
I think a reversed situation would be pretty much the same. If the existence of their country were balancing on western support, they wouldn't dare wipe out the Israeli's. The same way Israel has been doing for decades. they'd love to wipe out or just expel the palestinians, but they can't.
Yes, you are in the weeds because I was clearly talking about Hamas’ antisemitism, and you are making it about you.
I'm not making it about me. I'm pointing out a ridiculous argument made pretty much constantly about Israel.
Not exactly. As I said, this is easy enough to look up, but you clearly have your heels dug in on the issue.
look up what exactly? Has israel announced they support a 2 state solution that I am unaware of?
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@Swagnarok
You know the people you're rooting for hate you, right? Most Jews don't actively hate gentiles who aren't anti-semites, but the same Muslims who participate in or celebrate the killing of Jews would love to cut open your infidel neck too.
I'm guessing this was directed at me.
I assume they would hate me. The west has been propping up Israel this whole time. Israel treats them like animals, the west wags their finger and says "ooh that's bad" then gives them another billion worth of bombs and guns to use on the Palestinians. Why wouldn't they hate me? My government has given them very good reasons to. Not even getting into all the other bullshit like invading Iraq etc.
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to be fair, Yaroslav Hunka served in a german unit after the Russians had done horrible, horrible things to the Ukrainians. There is no evidence he was a member of the nazi party or that he had anything to do with attacks on Jews. He fought to drive the russians out of his homeland. But obviously, yeah it was a pretty big mistake to honor someone who fought in an SS unit.
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@Greyparrot
Believe all victims. Unless you have proof not to.
I mean, in this scenario Joe is the victim. Republicans are making lots of wild claims to defame him with absolutely no proof he has done anything wrong.
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@ponikshiy
Then they can take a nuke to the face TBH. The world can become civilized and peaceful voluntarily or by the people who stand in the way getting nuked in the face.
by that logic, the simplest solution is to destroy Israel. you'd have to kill an awful lot (100's of millions) of muslims/arabs to make this go away. There's only about 7 million Jewish Israelis. I'm not advocating the mass murder of anyone, ever. But if the solution you are looking for is mass murder, the easiest solution would be destroying Israel.
Also, I don't think imprisoning millions of innocent people and treating them like animals is civilized. I don't see Israel as a more civilized country than any other middle eastern nation. They treat their enemies just as cruelly as Egypt or the Saudis.
I dont k ow that expulsion is needed, but if it is, it's none of the business of the country the get expelled to, if they dont like it, they can get a nuke to the face, fuckem.
and this is a good way for Israel to get destroyed. Western nations are not going to support a mass expulsion of civilians, especially when Israel has done everything it can to make peaceful co-existence impossible. you'll find the whole world against you very fast if you go full nazi and try to kill or expel all the Palestinians.
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@Greyparrot
There's literally no proof that Hunter lied about his dad taking half of his earnings.
ok. There is no evidence I am lying if I say I was abducted by aliens. There is no proof it happened either.
There is no evidence joe knew anything about it. There is no evidence he received any money. There is no evidence he took any action to benefit the people paying Hunter. All we know is Hunter told people that if they paid him money, some of it would go to his dad. We also know he was a drug addict who liked to spend lots of money. He had a very good reason to lie. Because that is how he was making millions.
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@cristo71
I can only address what you say. Earlier, you were talking about terrorism as a means to annex territory. Now that you mention open war here— Israel’s ownership of land will depend upon their ability to defend it from invaders, which is what I have been saying.
modern warfare doesn't really work that way. Hybrid warfare is the norm now. Their direct attack across the border and their terror attacks are different branches of the same strategy. You can't really separate the two. Every nation fighting an insurgent force sees them as terrorists. The british saw the americans that way. The americans saw the taliban that way. The Israeli's see Hamas that way. War isn't all about taking and holding ground.
Hamas is the leadership in question, yes. If they had more might than Israel, there would be no Israel or Israelis.
this very much depends on the scenario you are talking about. If the leadership of Hamas was given godlike powers with no consequences, I'm sure they would make all Israeli's disappear. But if the situation were reversed and the Palestinians had power, they would likely act like Israel does. They know that wiping out the Israeli's would trigger a response from the west, so they slowly strangle them and steal more and more land until there is no way for a peaceful resolution to happen. Then you use some excuse to make it look like the jews are "barbaric" and then you can kill or expel them. Which is exactly what israel is doing. And I have every confidence if Israel had such a godlike power, all Palestinians would cease to exist.
Israel created and enforces the boundaries, yes. That happens when you wish a nation be eradicated.
and what is Israel's position on a Palestinian state? I'm pretty sure it's exactly the same thing as the Palestinian position on a Jewish state. Let's not pretend like Israel is somehow more tolerant than the Palestinians.
Ok, understandable then. Wishing the Jews dead is the definition of antisemitism, so you are going off into the weeds here…
no, i'm not. If you wish all jews dead, that is anti-semitism. If you wish the nation of Israel to cease to exist, that is politics. Israeli's want there to be no difference between Israel and all jewish people because then they can do whatever they want and any criticism is anti-semetic. It is a shield they hide behind. Israel can do shit things, and I can point out those shit things. That does not mean I dislike jewish people. The same way I can criticize China and not dislike chinese people.
Recognizing Israel’s right to exist would do a lot, as I’m sure you know. What we are seeing is what happens when a group refuses to do this.
ok. and Israel refuses to acknowledge the Palestinians have a right to a state. It is the same thing. both sides refuse to acknowledge the other's right to exist. I agree that acknowledging that is important, but even if the Palestinians did agree to that, it wouldn't really help them or change anything. Israel has no intention of allowing the Palestinians to have a state of their own.
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@ponikshiy
Even if you fix the underlying causes you still have to remove the terrorist organization.
agreed. Hamas will have to be dealt with. But dealing with hamas without dealing with the underlying causes is pointless.
So you have to do a lot of work to westernize these people so you can then step back and empower them to build a great nation or even invite then to be a part of your nation and build a great nation together.
you seem to be basically describing what the US tried in Iraq and Afghanistan. That was a colossal failure. I don't see any reason it would work better here.
I think an acceptable strategy is also push these people back to arab states like Egypt or Saudi Arabia.
Egypt and Saudi Arabia would treat that as a Declaration of war. You can't forcefully eject millions of people. They won't go without you killing a large number of them and no other state is going to let you force them into their country.
there is nothing uniquely different about Palestinian people than other Arabs, which has been genetically proven
there's nothing genetically different between Canada or the US, or the republic of ireland vs northern Ireland. They would be very angry to hear someone say they are not distinct people.
I don't think the Jews should try to make Palestinians refugees for western nations though, just Arab ones so they can live among their people in peace and prosperity
that's not going to happen. No country wants millions of refugees. Egypt would rather fight Israel than let Israel deport the Palestinians. The saudi's would also have some harsh words about it.
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@Vegasgiants
Let's talk about slavery.....another lie
they are told they where they are allowed to live. They are told where they are allowed to work. They are told where they are allowed to go. They have little to no control over their lives, that control is held by the Israeli government. Their access to food, medicine etc is controlled by Israel too. Slave is closest comparison to their situation. Maybe prison inmate would also work. But they definitely don't have the rights or freedoms most people in the world have.
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@ponikshiy
I would say it was a prison of thir own making for the most part.
they certainly bare some responsibility for the current state of affairs. They are not blameless victims, as some would suggest.
I think Israel will solve this situation soon
how do you think they will do that? so far they are making everything worse. If you bomb a hospital with terrorists in it, you might kill a dozen terrorists. But you create 50 more. The family and friends of the people you killed, now hate you even more. You cannot solve terrorism with bombs. The only way to solve terrorism is to address the underlying reasons people are resorting to terrorism. And Israel is quite emphatic that they have no intention of doing that.
Even if they can destroy Hamas, another organization will take over and carry on fighting.
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@Greyparrot
The email claimed his Dad took half of his earnings. Not that he kept the money.
uh huh. And this tells us that Hunter was telling people he was giving money to his dad, which was part of the scam he was running. He wanted them to think his dad was involved so that they would keep paying him. That does not prove that Joe actually received any money or that he even knew about it. That is not, in any way, proof of Joe's involvement.
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@Vegasgiants
You lie. I never said I support genocide. That is your interpretation
you support keeping them in a permanent state of slavery. And when questioned about your stance, you compare it to a genocide. If you don't support genocide, why do you keep comparing the situation to genocide (IE the american destruction of native americans).
the only reason to keep bringing this up is that you think this is a good solution.
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@cristo71
No, I said that the only real way you “own” land is through your ability to defend it from invaders. I don’t see the word “justified” in there. And as I said, terrorism alone is a poor way to conquer land.
I mean, they recently took troops and crossed over into Israeli occupied areas, killed lots of soldiers, police etc. That is more than just terrorism. That is war.
Ah, you are a “power structure” person. In that case, I still call BS because you are essentially concluding this: evil + power > evil + terror tactics presumably done out of desperation. If Palestinians had all the power, there would be no Jews.
no, if Hamas had power, there would be no jews, maybe. Hamas does not equal "Palestinians". Hamas exists only because Palestinians want to fight back against Israeli occupation. If Israel was actually willing to have peace, then Hamas would almost certainly lose alot of support.
Hamas runs the prison, actually.
the israeli barbed fences and machine guns around the outside say otherwise. The Israeli blockade does too.
Oh, so you think their virulent antisemitism is largely justifiable.
I didn't say it was justifiable. Also, this plays into a common argument that is bullshit. You can hate Israel without being anti-semetic. Israel is not a people, it is a nation. It's like saying you hate all Asians because China does something shitty. Pretending all criticism of Israel is Anti-semetic is a common trope people throw around to shut down any question of what they do.
Palestinian leaders are loathe to compromise, and they refuse to recognize the Jewish state. It constitutes sort of a non starter in good faith negotiations.
this is true. I have never said that negotiations would be easy. I have never said that Palestinians leaders are always negotiating in good faith. But the Palestinians don't have the Israeli's surrounded. They don't blockade Israel. Israel has most of the power in this scenario. If they don't negotiate in good faith, then peace is impossible. And since they adamantly refuse to give back land their illegal settlements are on, peace is impossible.
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@Vegasgiants
I get to decide what your position is like you do for me
I didn't decide your position. You made an argument that the situation was like that of natives in north america. That situation was resolved by genocide. I told you that and asked you to clarify and you just kept repeating the situation was the same. The only logical conclusion is that you are looking for the same thing here.
You hate jews and want Israel exterminated
nope, I have explicitly said the opposite. You on the other hand just keep comparing it to genocide.
I don't support genocide. I support peace
yes, peace through eternal slavery. Which inevitably leads to violence and terrorism when the slaves rise up. Your "solution" is exactly what Israel has been doing for decades. It is what has led us here.
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@ponikshiy
The fact you have this view and yet your name is history buff is crazy. Request the site owner change your name because this shows a complete lack of understanding the situation.
I'm playing devil's advocate. I'm not saying this is a 100% accurate description of how I see it, I'm saying that this is how many Palestinians see it. and if you were in their position you would probably see it that way too. Israel has done horrible, inhumane things to the Palestinians. Palestinians have also done horrible inhumane things to Israeli's, to be clear. But only israel has the ability to actually resolve the situation since they hold all the ground, they keep palestinians in a giant open air prison. As long as Israel refuses to actually negotiate, war and terrorism are unavoidable.
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@Vegasgiants
This is sad. You hate jews so much you want the state of Israel exterminated
lol, I want Israel to negotiate and actually resolve the conflict. That will involve giving back alot of stolen land that Israeli's built settlements on. Then both Palestinians and Israeli's might actually be able to be free.
You just want to Palestinians to either accept being slaves or die. You are in favor of extermination, based on your answers, I am in favor of a negotiated solution.
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@Vegasgiants
If America stole land by genocide ....then do the moral thing and give your house back
this is just sad. You want sooo badly to just exterminate them or keep them enslaved forever, but you can't quite come out and say it. You have to hide behind ancient history to imply that's what you want, but refuse to come out and say you are all for genocide. You're evil, just come out and say it. Be proud of your evil.
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@Greyparrot
I think there might have been an email or text from Hunter that claimed his dad took half of his earnings.
that isn't evidence that Joe was involved. That is evidence that Hunter was telling people that joe was involved. That was kind of a core part of the scheme. He would tell people that if they gave him money, his dad might do stuff for them. Then he kept the money.
There is no evidence his dad was in on it, got any of the money, or did anything for the people paying hunter. To say there is evidence that joe was involved, you need to show that Joe actually received some money, the Joe actually was involved in the scheme or that he did stuff for the people paying hunter. But no such evidence exists so far.
the only "evidence" of his involvement is some vague claims from sketchy people. No one has provided any actual evidence of his involvement. Just some hearsay from criminals/scammers.
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@Vegasgiants
Just wait long enough.....and you get your ethics
got it, your argument is that genocide worked for america so you want Israel to commit genocide too. That is evil. And thinking like that is why the west should stop supporting israel.
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@cristo71
No, terrorism is not a means with which to annex land. How much land has Hamas gained via terrorism, for example?
you argument was that if you can take something by force, it's yours. If terrorism (a kind of force) helps them to do that, then by your logic it is justified. In this case it seems like it will derail Israeli attempts to improve relations with the Saudi's and other arab countries.
I’m not buying your earlier claim that you believe Hamas and the Israeli government are equally “evil,” by the way. Clearly, you wish to indicate that Israel is guilty of greater wrongdoing, and that the burden is on Israel to peacefully resolve this rather than Hamas.
I do think they are equally evil. The difference is that Israel has all the power in this situation. They are the ones running the prison. they are the ones stealing the land. They are the ones who could end the conflict by negotiating with the Palestinians. Hamas can't do anything other than fight. They could fight in less shitty, evil ways. But they can't do anything else. Israel very much could, but wont.
Hamas wishes for the eradication of Jews and the Jewish nation. That wish was on full display last weekend. You seem to think that wish can be peacefully resolved somehow?
of course they do. Israel has been treating them like shit for decades. They are angry. And the leaders of Hamas probably won't ever stop being angry. But Hamas is only in a position of power because they have support. They have support because Palestinians don't have any other options. There is no peaceful resolution because Israel will not allow it. The only way this ends is with Israel making concessions to resolve the conflict, or by the forceful extermination or expulsion of the Palestinians. The Israeli plan seems to drag this out for as long as possible, then forcefully expel the Palestinians and kill any who refuse. Their demand that over a million Palestinians leave, with nowhere to go, in 24 hours seems to further prove this point.
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@Vegasgiants
But you could give the stolen land back.
to who? the people who "owned" it died 200 years ago. That isn't remotely the same thing.
Only Israelis have to do that
the people who own the land are still alive. And they are imprisoned in a giant open air prison while the israeli's cut off their food and medicine. So yes, sadly the 2 things are very similar. America committed a genocide 200 years ago, Israel is trying to carry one out now.
Since guilt over the holocaust is one of the main reasons people support Israel, I wonder how the world will look at them when they commit one even worse that the Germans?
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@Greyparrot
Wasn't there evidence of money deposited to an account linked to Biden's home address?
hunter lived with his dad for awhile (his life was kind of a mess due to his addictions). Hunter used that address in some forms while he lived there. Again, that just ties to hunter, not Joe.
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@cristo71
This sounds like an example of what I just said…
if that is your position, then you are only justifying what the Palestinians are doing. If might makes right, then terrorism to regain their land by force is right, isn't it?
Luckily, we live in a world with rules based order. Redrawing maps through violence is not how we should be doing things. Letting israel do this only guarantees more violence and instability. The US should have dealt with this years ago by telling them to make a deal or have all support and funding cut. The only reason Israel can afford to undermine peace efforts is because the US is guaranteeing their safety, which allows them to derail any solutions forever, without consequences.
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@Vegasgiants
Stolen land is ok....as long as it was a long toime ago?
no, stolen land is bad. But I can't restore the dead natives to life. And someone 15 generations removed has a very weak claim to land. Genocide is bad, but sadly, 200 years ago it was a common practice. Today we don't allow it.
The Palestinians who own that land are still alive. Or if not, their children or grand children are. You are making an argument that the horrible, genocidal practices humans used centuries ago should be repeated in the modern day. That is horrifying and evil.
But again, if the Israeli's don't negotiate and deal with the underlying issues, then this conflict will go on forever. They are guaranteeing permanent war and terrorism. Since Israel is the one occupying and imprisoning the Palestinians, they are the ones who need to make concessions to resolve the conflict.
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@Public-Choice
I mean... you ignored all the parts where it explicity says Joe Biden was present for all of it and that money was reserved for him, too. But ok. Do you.
nothing you showed ever said joe biden was present for any of it. Nothing you showed said that joe biden received a single penny. You showed Hunter, a known grifter, telling people some of the money was for joe (allegedly, it still isn't proven "the big guy" is joe, but that is likely). But that doesn't prove he knew about it or was involved.
What if I went around telling everyone that you and I were in business and that if they give me lots of money, I'll pass on that money to you. Does that prove I told you about this "business" or that I actually gave you any money? No, it doesn't. You have shown lots of evidence that hunter accepted money and threw around his dads name to get it. Which, sadly, isn't illegal. you haven't shown any evidence that Joe knew about it or received any money, or did anything inappropriate with his power as a result of any money. Literally all you have provided is evidence that Hunter did something very shady, but not illegal. You have shown nothing that actually ties joe to any of it.
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@Vegasgiants
Well you won't answer my direct questionWhy?
because you question has nothing to do with the topic. It's like asking if we should give back Italy to the Romans. They don't exist. Modern natives are like 15 generations removed from the people who actually lived on the land. Since the Americans wiped them out, they don't really exist as a people any more. Also, other people have lived on the land for 200 years.
In Palestine, this is 100% not the case. Palestinians lived on that land a few decades ago. There are people alive today who were forced off their land by Israeli's with guns. They still own that land, Israel just chooses to ignore that fact and build on it anyway.
The only way the situation would be similar is if you are saying Israel should exterminate 90% of the Palestinians and keep them enslaved for 200 years. Is that what you are saying?
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@FLRW
See Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, the 1969 movie he did. That is when he was good looking.That is when the girl said I looked like him.
that is much kinder comparison. I especially like the mustache.
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@cristo71
“Stolen land” is a nonsensical term to me. As if someone can grab your land, put it on a truck, and drive away with it, never to be seen again. The only thing that gives one true ownership of land is the ability to defend it against invaders.
lol, most of the world recognizes the land the settlements being built on as Palestinian land. You can actually go and find the specific Palestinian that owns land the Israeli's are building houses on. This isn't some abstract concept. The land is owned by people. The israeli's forced them off the land with guns and started building stuff on the land that they do not own. Almost the whole world calls them out on this all the time, they just don't care.
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@Vegasgiants
So that's a no? You won't give your house back to native Americans?
so you're just going to ignore literally everything I said? This comparison only works if you're talking about genocide. The Americans wiped out the natives, drove the handful of survivors into fenced off areas, then eventually gave them rights. The only way it makes sense to compare this to Palestine is if you talking about wiping out most of the Palestinians. Is that what you are advocating for?
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@FLRW
i had to google who Robert Redford is. The 1st photo that came up was a recent photo. I really hope that isn't what you meant. lol
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@Vegasgiants
They shoukd pursue peace. That comes with a unconditional surrender by hanas and a pledge by the plo to support the state of Israel.
that isn't peace, it's slavery. I would imagine if you were being told to submit to being a slave, you would also not be very keen on it. That will never happen. Insisting that that is the solution just guarantees more violence and terrorism.
Palestinians can have full rights when they earn them. Just like native Americans
ok but they didn't "earn them". They were wiped out. They were "pacified" by having the large majority of them be killed. Are you advocating Israel kill millions of Palestinians? Because that is the only way this comparison makes sense.
Have you given your house back to native Americans?
Again, are you advocating genocide? It kind of sounds like you are advocating genocide.
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@Public-Choice
The American people don’t fully appreciate yet the key role Joe Biden played in the Biden family global influence peddling … I would equate it to a chairman’s role in a traditional business structure. - the business partner who was on the receiving end of the “Don’t mention Joe” message
ok. this is a vague statement made by a guy with a shady history. He provides no evidence at all to back up his random claim. That isn't evidence, it's hearsay. Do you actually think this is evidence? because that might be the source of the issue, not knowing what the word evidence means.
“If I get a call or text from anyone involved in this other than you,” the chairman, or another executive named Zhang, “I will make certain that between the man sitting next to me and every person he knows and my ability to forever hold a grudge that you will regret not following my direction.” - text from Hunter Biden to a CCP official
uh huh. So we know Hunter was using his fathers name to make money. We already knew that. It does not, in any way, prove that Joe knew about it or was involved. It just proves Hunter wanted people to think his father was involved so he could make money. That is not, in any sense of the word, evidence that Joe biden did anything wrong.
That official paid The Bidens 1 million dollars.
ok. But they didn't give Joe a single penny. All this proves is what we have known for years, that Hunter Biden used his family name to make money. Also, very much not evidence that Joe did anything.
Four photographs prove that Hunter was at Joe’s house that day and took Joe’s cherished Corvette out for a spin.
lol, my god!! he drove his father's car!!! why didn't you say so earlier!! Obviously you have to impeach a man who let his son drive his car!
One week later on August 8, a major corporate shareholder of CEFC wired $5 million to a company named Hudson West III, which had a bank account balance of zero just five days earlier. This company then funneled more than $4 million to companies associated with Hunter.
more evidence of what we already know, that hunter was making millions off his family name. Again, absolutely no evidence joe was aware or involved.
How is there no evidence again? This is clear evidence of Joe Biden accepting bribes.
no, it is clear evidence that Hunter told/implied to others that money was going to Joe. There is no evidence he told joe about it or gave him any money. It is evidence of what we already know, that hunter getting money by throwing his dad's name around.
Anything else? All you have to show so far is that hunter was getting millions of dollars and threw around his dad's name. You haven't shown a single piece of evidence that Joe was involved other than loving and talking to his son.
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@Vegasgiants
Native Americans did not get full citizenship for over 100 years.
Oh I see. so your argument is that we, in the modern day, should be pushing for a policy of genocidal destruction of a race of people like america did 200 years ago. This basically guarantees that the Palestinians will continue to fight because you aren't leaving them any other choice. It's literally fight, die or live as a slave.
So native Americans DID accept "slavery".
not really no. They fought for a very long time. The fighting only really ended when most native tribes were decimated and therefore the natives were massively outnumbered, like 1000 to 1. To make that scenario true in Palestine, Israel would have to kill several million people. Basically, they would have to recreate the holocaust.
Maybe eventually we will let Palestinians have the same rights.
Israel wont ever let the Palestinians have rights. There are already more of them than Jewish people. If Palestinians were treated as actual people, Israel would become an Palestinian state with a very large Jewish minority. So Israel will always treat the Palestinians like dogs. And the Palestinians know that. That is why Israel has made terrorism inevitable. Israel is causing the problem.
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@Vegasgiants
No more slaves than native Americans.
native americans are full US citizens. They have every single right and protection that any other US citizen has. They can travel anywhere they want at any time they want. They can pray wherever they want. They can vote in elections and have equal say in who their representatives are. None of these things are true for Palestinians. The two are nowhere near comparable.
Eventually Palestinians will accept their lot in life. But no more self government. They are incapable of peaceful self government
you can't actually believe that? The Arabs/Palestinians outnumber the jews in Israel/Palestine. And since the Palestinian birth rate is so much higher than Israel's that trend is going to continue. They are not just going to lay down and accept slavery. Israel has to actually make a deal with them to resolve the issue. War and conflict will go on until Israel does this, or until Israel is forced to do this. But they have basically ruled out the only plans.
A 1 state solution is out because they refuse to allow Palestinians to vote. They would very quickly get outvoted by the Palestinians.
And a 2 state solution is out because Israel has been building illegal settlements in Palestinian land and a 2 state solution would require giving much of this land back. But they've filled the stolen land with hundreds of thousands of Jewish people. Which means no israeli government could get away with evicting them. And that was exactly the point. To make peace impossible.
And "they should accept slavery" is not a peace plan. It is a plan to create terrorists.
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@Vegasgiants
So many ways. Israel can be guardians for them. They can greatly improve conditions in gaza by taking over the government there. Palestinians are incapable of peaceful self government. They must accept that Israel will run things. Then their lives can improve
translation, they will be slaves of Israel. They will learn to like it or die. This is how you create terrorists.
Their terrorist attacks have only made their lives much worse. They need a better plan....acceptance of living under Israeli rule
lol, so in your world, the solution to war is to get the poor, powerless people to like being slaves of the powerful? Did you really think that was a solution? Or are you just messing with me?
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@Vegasgiants
Peace comes with complete and unconditional surrender of hamasOnly then can the lives of Palestinians begin to improve
how would that improve the situation for the Palestinians? They would still be prisoners/slaves of Israel. Even if you could destroy hamas, Israel would continue treating Palestinians like garbage and continue building settlements on their stolen land. Then Palestinians would get angry enough to fight back and we are right back at hamas, but under a new name.
Bombing terrorists does not solve anything. All it does is create more angry people who then become terrorists. The only way to get rid of terrorists is by addressing the reasons they become terrorists in the 1st place. Israel has no intention of doing that. Until Israel is ready to actually deal with the underlying issues, the conflict will go on forever. and the current Israeli government is so far right, that they would rather kill every Palestinian than actually negotiate in good faith.
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@Public-Choice
That doesn't change the primary source content and witness testimonies they cite in full.
those witness testimonies don't say Joe Biden did anything wrong. None of them say they saw joe biden do anything. None of them say they know joe biden took a single cent. None of them say they know joe biden did something improper for another country or company. All they say is inuendo and rumor.
Like saying something is "for the big guy". That doesn't tie anything to biden. He could be "the big guy", he might not be. And even if he is "the big guy", we know Hunter was trading on the biden name for money. So he might very well have told people that money was for Joe, and Joe never knew about it because Hunter was just lying and pocketing the money.
Bottom line, there is no actual evidence that Joe Biden broke any law or did anything against the rules. Let alone "hard evidence", there is no evidence at all. And the republicans have spent the entire last year looking for it, but all they get is nonsense.
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@ponikshiy
To make my position clear before I respond, both sides are wrong. Hamas is evil, murdering civilians en masse. The israeli government is equally as evil. They systematically starve and kill Palestinians year after year while stealing more and more of their land making peace harder and harder. Neither side is innocent. Both sides are wrong.
Israel is humane and trying to preserve life.
the hundreds of Palestinians the Israeli's kill per year would disagree. Also starving Palestinians and bombing their hospitals isn't very humane.
Hamas I guess was helping Palestinians by inciting Israel to start bombing the weapons they have stored in civilian areas.
this is likely a primary goal. The Saudi's were getting close to recognizing Israel and having formal relations with them. I suspect the reason for the brutality was to force the Israeli government (who are made up of far right wing lunatics) to react with equal brutality. This makes is very difficult for arab and/or muslim nations to engage with Israel while they murder thousands of Palestinian children.
Israel is bombing civilian locations that are being used as weapons caches and hold things like rockets and using Palestinians as human shields.
I'm sure this is true in at least some cases. But they are bombing so many things so fast, there is no chance they know that is true in all cases. They are bombing civilian targets without being sure what they are bombing. But like I said, the Israeli government is the furthest right, craziest government Israel has ever had. Half of them would have loved to do this even without Hamas attacking them 1st.
Those things I don't think help Palestinians. What about more directly. Let's see if what Hamas directly does to Palestinians helps then.
it depends on how you look at things. If your ultimate goal is to keep people as happy and safe as possible, then obviously this doesn't help them. But if the ultimate goal is to retake your homeland and drive out the evil invaders that have tortured your people for generations, then this might be the best thing they could do. I'm not making the argument that it is, just trying to play devil's advocate.
Let's put it this way, let's say your country were invaded by an evil 3rd party. They enslave your people, steal your land, leave your children on the brink of starvation; would your primary goal be to do what they say so they kick you a little softer? Or would it be to find a way to drive them out? fighting them will undoubtedly lead to alot of death and destruction, but if you don't, your people have no future other than slaves or prisoners.
If you want to help Palestinians the best way to do is to support Israel removing the people harming them.
lol Israel are the people harming them. Hamas is certainly not doing them any favors either, but it is Israel bombing their schools and hospitals. It is Israel fencing them off in small corners of what used to be their country and killing them if they dare to say otherwise while they build more and more settlements on stolen land.
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@Public-Choice
The New York Times reports that Republicans launched an impeachment inquiry into Joe Biden without any evidence of financial wrongdoing or corruption. However, overwhelming proof of Biden's corruption and wrongdoing has been found, including written records and corroborated testimonies from first-hand witnesses. At least 12 sets of documented facts leave no reasonable doubt that Biden participated in his son's illicit businesses deals, bribed foreign officials, and obstructed justice. Three major defenses of Biden are demonstrably false: 1) "Don't Mention Joe": Joe Biden claimed he had nothing to do with his son Hunter's business dealings and never even spoke to Hunter about them; 2) "A Chairman's Role": In 2023, the business partner who was on the receiving end of the "Don't mention Joe" message stated that the American people don't fully appreciate yet the key role Joe Biden played in the Biden family global influence peddling; and 3) "The Big Guy": In May 2017, the same partner who wrote "Don't mention Joe" sent an email to Hunter and two of their other partners proposing how the "equity" of a joint venture with a Chinese energy company named CEFC would be distributed.
lol, not a single part of that is actual evidence. literally none of it. it's all hearsay and inuendo.
Joe Biden's involvement in the Ukraine bribery scandal is evident in emails he sent to Hunter and his partners.\
there is no ukraine bribery scandal. It is entirely made up by right wing hacks. The Obama administration, along with many other countries, wanted the prosecutor removed because he was corrupt. Biden happened to the be the one sent to deliver the message. Right wing hacks want to pretend that biden was somehow making corrupt deals when it wasn't his decision in the 1st place.
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@Greyparrot
it's not the 1st time either. There was another example of basically the same thing a little while ago. He was talking to the press, was asked a question and just goes blank and unresponsive. They had to walk him away. Later in the day he seemed ok, but he is definitely not all there.
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@Greyparrot
Which we have been doing, to the tune of trillions of dollars in subsidies, but if you read my links, it doesn't stop the brownouts for hours of peak usage because the sun and wind doesn't care about your feelings.
no, that is where batteries and interconnected grids come in. With batteries you can store the excess energy and then release it during peak hours. Some basic ones are already very useful (in the right kind of area). A gravity battery using water is a fairly simple and effective one. Albeit it does require the right kind of geography to work well.
With interconnected grids, you can better prioritize power. IE peak power production in England isn't the same as peak power production in say, turkey. Their peak consumption hours are different as well. So with you can take excess energy in one place and move it to somewhere else that needs it. That way you get around the peak production/consumption issue with solar. This would take lots of investment though.
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@Greyparrot
this source talks about brownouts caused by insufficient investment in infrastructure and or/natural disasters. it is not a lack of power.
this one actually does talk about brownouts caused by insufficient power. Basically the power demand in california doubled due to record heat waves. But it's not really about green energy. Even if they used no green energy at all, it still would have happened. Most grids are not equipped to double normal energy output. Pumping more oil out of the ground would not change this.
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@Greyparrot
There is also the cost of immediate damage from a lack of energy, such as poor people dying in the summer from brownouts
When was the last time the US had a brown out from lack of energy? from infrastructure allowed to decay until it can't handle the load? sure. But a complete lack of oil and gas? I would need a citation for that.
and in the winter because poor people cant afford to heat the house.
this sounds like an excellent argument for massive investment in greener energy, not for pumping more poison into the air.
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@Greyparrot
California is free to not buy any Alaskan oil.
the idea is that no one should be buying oil. Whether it is from alaska or otherwise. And funding new oil development only encourages more delays in switching off of oil and gas. And the longer we take to transition, the more damage will be done and the more people will die. The money that can be made on oil today is pennies compared the damage a shifting climate can cause.
And likewise, Alaska should not dictate what industries California should be allowed to husband.
you don't get the whole "nation" thing do you? Federal policy is for the whole country, not this state or that.
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@Greyparrot
So pure negligence. Hope that goes down well in the history books.\
nothing about what I said, in any way, suggested negligence.
1) There is no evidence she picked this date with the election in mind. in fact, she not supposed to take a politician's political career into account when making decisions. It is her job to not do that. The whole "justice is blind" thing. It is not negligence to simply ignore factors that have no relevance.
2) If she started setting dates to try to benefit trump, that would political interference. She would be guilty of what you are accusing her of (political interference) if she did the thing you want her to do. How is this lost on you?
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