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@Wylted
Stupid take, some billionaires just care about money. You don't see Paul Mitchell getting heavy handed with politics like George Soros.
you've yet to show any of your underlying assumptions are true. You assume that jewish people have lots of control, but haven't shown this is true. And even if it were true, you haven't shown why jewish people would be "anti-white". Many jewish people are also caucasian.
your entire argument is just assumptions and bullshit.
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@thett3
I do spend time on the right wing internet, and you’re wrong. Nobody believes that, there is a lot of fear about unknown potential side effects of mRNA
which is based on what exactly? the available evidence says they are safe and doctors recommend taking them. But right wing media keeps perpetuating the idea they are unsafe. Some of it is quite fascinating really. I watched trump try to take credit for the vaccines and then immediately after that spread anti-vax bullshit about them being unsafe. The double think is fascinating.
They’ve done studies and vaccine hesitant people are way more comfortable with it when their family doctor recommends it.
so the issue is that the people they do trust aren't recommending it. And mostly, they trust right wing news sources, which are spreading bullshit anti-vax nonsense.
When the authority figures are all proven liars, what do you expect?
have you ever met someone who wasn't a liar. In this case, his lies were usually for a good reason. IE not making a rush on masks when they were critically needed for healthcare workers. I agree he shouldn't have lied, but at least he had good intentions.
But fauci aside, virtually all doctors recommend getting the vaccine. So even if you don't trust fauci, it's not like other doctors disagree with him. The right is just amplifying the handful of doctors that do disagree because it benefits them to do so.
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@Wylted
It's funny how if you say whites control the media, I don't confuse you of a conspiracy theory, but the second I point out Jews control the media, you spaz out and claim it is some sort of wild conspiracy theory?
lol, because white people make up most of the rich and powerful people in America. You now say it is some conspiracy of Jewish people who are anti white.
Jews are very over represented in the Billionaire class
30% of the top billionaires does not equal "control". 30% would make them in the minority.
They also run the media
this is a link to some opinion piece by some random guy from Israel. this is not evidence they "run the media". It is evidence they are over represented in movies. My god, they're making bad movies like "tropic thunder"!!!! they have control of the whole country!!!
Why do you think Jews being over represented in positions of power means that there us some sort of conspiracy?
no, I think it is pretty irrelevant and has nothing to do with this topic at all.
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@thett3
The brain chips thing is a leftist meme.I have never seen anyone actually say that.
I don't spend much time in right wing areas of the internet (like parlor or whatever) but i'm pretty sure there are lots of people who believe bill gates is a villain and is messing with the vaccines. They might not all believe the "brain chip" thing, but their beliefs are also stupid and crazy.
What it comes down to is trust in the regime, if you’ll recall back in October or so It was Democrats (including Kamala Harris) who said they wouldn’t get a vaccine
I believe Harris said she wouldn't take it just based on the government's say so. But if doctors recommended getting it she would be 1st in line to take it. Guess what, doctors recommend getting it.
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@Wylted
when a white person commits terrorism the media is usually much less inclined to call it that unless it is extremely blatant.That would be racist to do that, yes.
yeah, that's fair. The media, and society at large, are much more willing to give white people the benefit of the doubt.
No, the groups controlled and funded by rich Jews. Not that whites can't be anti white though.
oh I see. The secret cabal of jews is controlling the world's media to destroy the white race? are they also manning the space laser and starting wild fires?
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@Wylted
I can point to a lot of things wrong LOL.
then why haven't you done so? You have provided no evidence that anything went wrong. you just keep repeating that it did and when asked for evidence you don't provide any.
Why are you 8insisting everything ran perfectly and nobody can point out a single thing wrong?
i'm sure things got messed up here and there. Humans make mistakes. But there was no election fraud. Dozens of lawsuits were started about this and literally no one could find any evidence of any significant fraud. They found a few cases of individuals committing fraud, like a guy voting with his dead mother's vote (for trump). But absolutely nothing on the scale that could have affected the outcome of the election.
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@coal
It is worth considering why there are large segments of the population that refuse to get the vaccine. A substantially contributing factor, in fact often cited by the vaccine-skeptics themselves, is the extent to which Fauci has contradicted himself --- over and over again. You surely cannot fail to be aware of that fact.
I agree fauci has contradicted himself. Some of that was that the information changed. Some of it was clearly lies. But the people refusing to get vaccinated usually cite stupid reasons like brain control chips. Most people refusing to get vaccinated don't even have a specific reason. Right wing media has just led them to believe they are unsafe or not necessary. I've seen stories of lots of people who are dying of covid who simply refuse to believe the doctor that they have it because they are convinced it doesn't exist.
Nevermind the fact that neither of those vaccines presented any higher risk for blood clots than birth control, but that didn't matter. The media got a soundbite, ran with it, and all of a sudden those vaccines were pulled from the market in Europe.
agreed. that was dumb. But they were being more careful than they should have been. If anything, that should make people even more confident in the vaccines approved for us.
The Canadian government can't even make up its mind between the province level and federal level. For example, Ontario in its infinite wisdom decided to unilaterally pause both EVEN THOUGH the Canadian equivalent to the Food and Drug Administration approved it.
also fair. But the premier of ontario is a right wing idiot.
Now, if you're just a normal person without any real background in the regulatory aspects of this or the data involved, what's the conclusion you reach? It's obvious: regulators have no idea what they're doing because they can't even be consistent among themselves! So what do you do? There's a lot of them who think the "safe" option is to avoid the vaccine.
people are human. They make mistakes. I grant that the way governments reacted to the J & J and astra zenica vaccines were stupid. They wanted to make 100% sure the vaccines were safe to ensure public confidence in them, but just ended up undermining it. But they did end up confirming they were safe. Then right wing media continued telling people they weren't. I mean just the other day trump said on fox that vaccines were dangerous for children.
These people aren't anti-vaxx types, for the most part, either. They are often pretty well informed. And they understandably lack confidence in the vaccines because of how much of a giant clusterfuck world governments have made this.
but the government was being more careful than they should have been, not less. That isn't an argument against the safety of vaccines. "well informed" people wouldn't see that and decide vaccines are unsafe.
There is no evidence that existing vaccines are less effective against newly identified variants.The reasons why are complicated, but it's related to what I said above. You'd need similar data to what I said above to even make that claim with a straight face; yet no such data exists. It's logistically impossible to obtain it in a clinical trial setting, too.
so from what I read here, you aren't saying that the vaccine is less effective on new variants, you are saying that we don't have sufficient data to support that yet. And I am willing to stipulate you may be right about that. But it is entirely possible the vaccines are less effective by new variants or by new variants that are likely to come up. And I believe I had brought this up as an argument as to why lock down restrictions might continue to be needed, if this occurred.
Sorry to tell you. But you've been sold --- and seem to still very strongly believe --- that this snake oil works. But it doesn't have to be that way. You could wake up and smell the coffee.
if by smell the coffee, you mean become like india and have our medical system collapse.
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@coal
Although I would try Fauci for fraud, among other crimes he has clearly been implicated in.\
i'm guessing you have no idea what fraud means. Because I have never seen any evidence he has committed any.
said another way, there is no evidence that lockdowns had any effect on either (a) rate of community spread or (b) fatality rates (based on either the case-fatality rate or the infection fatality rate).
i will grant that you appear to be more of an expert on the statistics than I am. But we are seeing a cycle. The lockdowns ramp up, cases drop, the lockdowns ease and cases spike again. That would seem to confirm their utility.
If Ferguson was right, then the rate of case growth in Sweden should have been not just a little ... but precipitously higher than the case growth rate in a country like the United Kingdom.
my understanding is that Sweden's policy was a failure.
"In the second wave of the COVID-19 pandemic, the Swedish national response continues to be an outlier with cases and deaths increasing more rapidly than in its Nordic neighbours. On Dec 20, 2020, COVID-19 deaths in Sweden had reached more than 800 or 787 deaths per 1 million population, which is 4·5 to ten times higher than its neighbours."
Likewise, if Ferguson was right, then at least some metric of fatality rates from COVID in Sweden should have been greater than in the United Kingdom. There too, just the opposite happened.
But they were many times worse off than their neighbors. Perhaps differences between sweden and the UK are cultural. For example if people in the UK just willfully ignored health advice like wearing a mask while people in sweden took it seriously. A lockdown is much less effective if people are ignoring it. Government policy is important, but culture and public opinion will have a large role as well.
Every word of this sentence is false. There is not now, nor has there ever been, precedent for the lockdowns.
governments have always had the power to order businesses to close. they do it literally every day. I grant that this was a more extreme version of that power, but don't pretend it is new.
They are not the same thing and do not involve the same issues.
true. but the right wing people i have spoken to about this previously have always railed against being forced to wear a mask so i was including it as well as it is a normal thing the government has always had power over.
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@Wylted
There are thousands of examples of things like this.
there are thousands of examples of things that are not, in any way, fraud? that has has nothing to do with this conversation at all. You are claiming that there was fraud in the election but cannot point to a single thing that went wrong in the election. You are now just ranting about your mail.
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@Wylted
That was in response to you saying the media is racist against blacks.
I didn't say that. I think you mean when i said that when white people commit terrorism they don't call it terrorism. And, in general, when a white person commits terrorism the media is usually much less inclined to call it that unless it is extremely blatant.
I said the media was anti white not BLM.
so the groups controlled and funded by rich white men, are anti-white? Do you even listen to yourself?
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@Wylted
The point about her getting 3 and me one, is that she hot more reminders to vote, not that she would be able to vote more often.
so the one example you provided is actually not an example of a fraud risk in any way. Why the hell are you bringing this up?
Also cheating would not be a wash, liberals are more inclined to cheat.
again, you are just pulling more bullshit out of your ass.
For example by sending my wife more ballots. Also there is reports that democrats were going door to door in some areas asking registered democrats if they had remembered to vote.
so you object to reminding people to vote? That isn't fraudulent in any way.
A recount is pointless. You need the ballots audited. If you keep recounting the same fraudulent ballots, the numbers will keep coming up the same.
they've done recounts. they've done audits. No one can find a single shred of evidence that any kind of significant fraud occurred. You are choosing to believe it despite all available evidence saying it isn't true.
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@thett3
Well where I live the restrictions have been over since last May, except for the mask mandate which ended a few months ago. There doesn’t seem to be any appetite whatsoever for tightening things up, and wasn’t even during the peak this winter.
then you probably live deep in trump country. Half your neighbors probably don't even think covid is real. So what those people think has absolutely no bearing on electoral results because they are going to vote for their cult leader no matter what the democrats do.
All but the most diehard lockdown activists will be long since over it soon (again, barring another extreme surge which is highly unlikely.)
why would it be unlikely? most of the world isn't vaccinated yet. That leaves billions of people the virus can infect and mutate in. Any one of those mutations could make the vaccine less effective.
Unfortunately for Dems the demographic most likely to be in favor of permanent lockdownism (neurotic, educated white people in urban areas) are the group that has the biggest disproportionate influence on the parties rhetoric and policies.
lockdown policies are actually quite popular among democrats and independents. They understand they are necessary to keep people alive.
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@Wylted
The media was on the BLM bandwagon before it existed.
you were talking about antifa. now you're talking about BLM. You know those aren't the same thing right? Or do you just want so much right wing propaganda that they are all just scary monsters to you?
They have been decidedly pretty anti white
nope. Only a racist could hear the words "black lives matter" and think that is anti-white. A non-racist would hear that and think "of course black lives matter". BLM isn't trying to take things away from white people. They want black people to be treated the way white people already are. But the right just sees scary black people and try to paint them as terrorists or something.
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@Wylted
You know it wouldn't have to be that organized right?
if it's not organized, then it would almost certainly have no effect on the election. A few sporadic cases of fraud happen. They have found some cases of people fraudulently voting for trump in 2020 for example. But unless it is organized, then we are talking about a couple of votes here and there which is highly, highly unlikely to make a difference. And if it is entirely random, then you would get a handful of fraudulent votes for both sides which would make it even less likely to change the outcome.
You just have liberal areas less critical of the ballots they receive than conservative ones etc.
I've already explained this to you. Conservatives don't give a rat's ass about fraud. They are more critical because they are trying to keep people from voting. They can only win if they can successfully suppress voter turnout. This is highlighted by the ridiculous laws they have passed since 2020. Like it now being illegal to give people water while they wait to vote. The point is to try to stop people from voting.
For example.my wife accidentally registered as a democrat and got 3 ballots mailed to her. I got one ballot mailed to me. All types of little things like that
1) i've seen you say alot of things that aren't true. So i don't really believe you.
2) even if that is true, if someone tried to submit multiple ballots that would be caught. You can't vote multiple times. There is security for elections.
All types of little things like that
so far you have yet to give a single example of fraud that is actually possible and could affect the outcome.
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@thett3
If things get really bad again then yeah the politics of it would be different than what I’m saying.
ok, well then it sounds like you are agreeing with exactly what the plan is. If things continue to get better, the restrictions will wind down. If they don't get better, then restrictions will remain.
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@Wylted
How would you have evidence if every vote is anonymous LOL?
all sorts of ways. Votes don't magically appear in boxes. They have to be received, counted etc. There are many steps in the process. All of which are strictly controlled and monitored. The idea that you could mess with millions of ballots and not leave a trace is a joke.
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@Wylted
If the election was stolen, does that make the government corrupt? Yes or no?
in and of itself? no. Even if it was stolen there is no reason to believe the government was involved. And even if the government were involved, the judiciary is a completely separate branch.
How do you know what they are looking for?
I've yet to see any evidence this was ever actually used. So far, as far as I know, it was included in a report once. so you haven't shown that they have ever actually done this.
They are asking for people who have very radical beliefs that are right wing. What do you think they'll do with this list of wrong thinkers?
is this a serious question? They will look for terrorists. That is what the entire report was about.
It literally was LOL. I've seen footage inside the autonomous zone, these people admit to it.
you've seen footage of people inside the autonomous zone.... oh my god. lol. so again, you are just pulling shit out of your ass and claiming you've seen "footage".
Also why do you think conservatives are terrorists?
no one has ever said that conservatives are terrorists. But right wing terrorists would identify as conservative.
Right wing terrorism isn't really a thing that happens very often.
it's the most common type of terrorism in america. But since it is white people doing it, the media rarely calls it that.
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@Wylted
That is like me leaving a jar of cookies in a room with my kid and coming back and they only have one left, and him claiming ai don't know who took the cookies, because I have no evidence. I didn't count them so I can't say how many were taken. I have no documentation. Hell if I have no documentation and can't tell you the count difference that means no cookies were stolen.
again, you have given an example that is completely unrelated. In this example you know there were more cookies, then you left and came back and there were less cookies. Therefore you know a "crime" has taken place. IE you have evidence. At this point it is just a matter of determining who committed the crime.
In the case of the election, there is absolutely no evidence a crime occurred at all. As far as anyone can tell (and it has been thoroughly investigated) everything proceeded exactly as it was supposed to.
Even if I accepted your statement that it is impossible to have evidence (which is patently false), then it would be equally reasonable to assume that it was trump that tried to rig the election and he actually got 10's of millions less votes than he claims.
But by your logic, every election would be illegitimate and the entire country would collapse.
Yuh ou know you are wrong and that is why you won't debate me. Be honest
lol not even close. Your argument boils down to "I choose to believe something and I don't care what reality is".
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@Wylted
Maybe the jews should have went to Hitler's courts. Running away from the camps was unethical because they could have appealed to courts.
this comparison is stupid. The two situations are in no way comparable. Republicans have easy access to the courts. They brought lots of lawsuits alleging fraud. They couldn't prove a single example though.
Maybe the founding forefathers should have went to British courts instead of illegally revolting.
One of the core principals of the revolution was no taxation without representation. The point was that they didn't have a voice in the government that decided to raise taxes on them. Therefore there was no court you could go to. So, again, the two cases are in no way comparable.
If the government did something wrong than you should go to the government to convict themselves I guess.
the courts are not "the government". They are an independent branch that does not answer to elected officials. The alternative to going to the courts is using violence to overthrow the government when you don't like the results of an election. That is how the 3rd world does things. And that is how trump's cultists wish it could be done in america.
Gathering names of political opponentsnis probably a red flag, yes.
a couple of different things. 1) They aren't looking for "political opponents". one small piece of the overall information happens to include political affiliation. But since that affiliation does correlate with right wing terrorism, it is a complete lie to say they are somehow targeting "political opponents".
2) this was just in a report. They weren't actually doing this. They were saying this could be used as one piece of information to help narrow down potential terrorists.
Biden seemed not to have very strong language toward them if he isn't condemning or criticizing them than it must mean he wants their support.
lol trump refused to condemn murderers, terrorists, the KKK, Putin etc. Are you saying Trump is secretly a klan member? Also, as I have told you over and over and over, Antifa is a tiny fringe group. why would the president of the United states need to comment on some tiny insignificant group?
They did form a successful even if temporary coup in Seattle though.
what? that wasn't antifa. I'm guessing this is another one of those boogey man things the right blames on them to gin up fear.
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@thett3
People are over it. Unless we go back to January-February levels (extremely unlikely now that we have the vaccine) any restrictions aren’t going to fly in my opinion
I agree. I'm sick of restrictions too. And that is why the restrictions are being ramped down. But there are large segments of the population that refuse to get the vaccine. And dangerous variants are still popping up all over the world. The threat that the vaccines might be less effective on these variants causing another surge is certainly a real possibility.
But as I said, the reason for the restrictions still existing is if people are still getting sick and dying. So if that is happening, there damn well better still be restrictions. People would demand it.
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@coal
"Sheer insanity"That's pretty strong language, devoid of any basis whatsoever to justify it.
no, I explained why it was sheer insanity. Anyone who wants to save lives should imprisoned. And we should protect freedom by taking away people's freedom. Do you think that this isn't crazy?
And I mean, none of the covid restrictions are new powers of the government. They already control what you are allowed to wear. For example, you can't walk around on the street naked. So saying you need to wear a mask isn't unprecedented.
they already control when businesses can and can't be open and how many people can be inside. Things like holidays, rules for what time businesses must close by, and maximum occupancy of buildings have been around for a long, long time. So changing those rules a bit for a public health crisis isn't particularly different.
So you argument is that anyone who advocated for saving lives with powers the government has always had should be arrested. I think "sheer insanity" sums that up.
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@Wylted
so your argument is that you have absolutely no evidence that any kind of significant fraud has occurred."We created a system where you can have massive fraud and no evidence will exist for it, but since there is minimal evidence for it, that means it has never and will never occur, derp"
you basically just agreed to what I said. You have no evidence that anything at all happened. You choose to assume it happened even though all available evidence says it didn't.
By your logic, you should assume that trump didn't get anywhere near the amount of votes he says he got. There must have been massive voter fraud to shift votes in his favor. He really lost by 50 million votes. It makes as much sense as what you are saying.
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@Wylted
The evidence was only obvious in retrospect. The evidence now is the attempt to gather names at all.
so gathering names is a sign of genocide? So grocery stores are about to commit genocide? They gather names too, like most other businesses and organizations. Trump and the republicans like to gather names too, I guess trump wants to kill you.
Antifa has also publicly stated they will be going after names of conservatives for when they have power
why would I care what Antifa states? they are a tiny fringe group with little to no effect on public policy or the country. The right just loves to pretend they are some huge threat in order to scare people.
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@Wylted
nope. There are legal methods to challenge election results. So even if they were right (which they obviously aren't) they would still be traitors trying to overthrowIf the government is corrupt and it is stolen than go to the corrupt government and plead that they stop playing unfair?
there are these places called courts. If you think someone committed a crime, you go to them and provide evidence. The republicans alleged lots and lots of things in courts. They got virtually every single one of them thrown out because they didn't have a shred of evidence.
If you think an election is stolen, you 1st need evidence this happened. so far literally none has been found. So if you think it is justified to overthrow democracy based on internet rumors with no supporting evidence, then I guess you really want a dictatorship.
Oromagi proved my claim that the government was targeting ron Paul supporters. I am not sure how he thinks he disprove me
no, he disproved it. A report got written about how to identify extremists. One tiny part of that report was that they often support outsider candidates such as ron paul. This in no way says they are "targeting ron paul supporters". They used it as an example of one data point that could help point law enforcement in the right direction. Investigators do this all the time to help them narrow down a suspect pool.
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@thett3
If there is even a modicum of covd restrictions left by 2022 democrats are so screwed
this sentence doesn't make any sense. If there are covid restrictions, it would be because people are still getting sick and dying. The kind of people who would want restrictions ended even if it killed people are probably not that interested in reality any way and are likely just trump cultists.
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@coal
Do you actually expect me to respond to your question?
I don't see that you could redeem yourself. So I suppose it is pointless. The sheer insanity of your statement speaks for itself. IE if you try to protect people you should be punished. And to protect freedom, we should take away people's freedom.
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@oromagi
Of course, if Wylted provided a source, his assertion would be disproved.
interesting. I did try to find what he was talking about but didn't have any luck. I can see why he refused to provide a source. He probably has no idea where the info came from. He is likely just regurgitating something he got off some right wing blog and has no idea what he is talking about.
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@Wylted
so to maintain freedom, you think only the rich and powerful should get a say in what the rules are? That is the exact opposite of freedom. That is tyrannyNo, proven altruistic experts.
and who decides who these experts are? if the people don't get a say, then presumably the people with money and power would decide. And if they are the ones deciding, then they are going to pick people who will benefit them. And then they aren't altruistic experts any more, they are pawns of the rich.
The best possible way to make sure the system benefits the people as a whole, is the give the people as a whole control of the system. If you take that control and only allow a chosen few access, it guarantees corruption and abuse.
it's not about pushing one narrative or another. It's about creating division. That is why their bots push both far left and far right wing propaganda.Do you know america would be better off if either the far right or the far left took over?
I guess it depends on your definition of "far left". Republicans would label the policies of the governments of most other 1st world countries as "far left". So if you think universal health care and free education means "far left", then yes america would be far better off with the "far left" in charge. If you use the definition most of the world would use, for example communism, then no. But in my experience most people on here don't have any idea what "far left" means. Like anyone who has ever called Biden "far left" has no idea what that means.
But again, the russians aren't interested in helping the left or the right. They just want to foster division. To push as many people to the extremes as possible to force them to fight each other instead of realizing that they should be working together to fight against their actual enemies.
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@Wylted
Whether or not they were right is irrelevant to their crimes. They tried to overthrow democracy.Not if they were right, than they were trying to protect a democratically elected leader from a Washington coup
nope. There are legal methods to challenge election results. So even if they were right (which they obviously aren't) they would still be traitors trying to overthrow democracy.
1) please provide a source for that assertion. I'm guessing you got it from some idiot on the internet.Nope, it was big news when it happened. It's literally the first Google result of "FBI to target Ron Paul supporters"
nope. this is the 1st thing that comes up. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/paul-supporters-to-rally-at-target-center/.
so provide a source or I will just assume you got it from some idiot on right wing blog.
This reminds me of the Jews who were in denial about their names being collected by the Nazis.
You know who else collects your name? whatever town you live in, every company you've ever shopped at, your cell phone, most tech companies etc. The list of groups that collect your information is a mile long. By your logic, we should assume they are all nazi's coming to kill us.
Do you know how much evidence existed for pol apot genociding his people, when it was happening? Liberals denied it was happening and said conservatives were being dramatic.
ok. so because a genocide happened once and there was evidence it was going to happen, we should assume a genocide is always coming even when there is absolutely no evidence this is true? do you actually stop and think about the things you write, or is it just a stream of consciousness thing? because alot of what you write makes no sense.
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@Greyparrot
The removal of police officers and funds for social workers.
I skimmed this because really, why waste my time. But from what I gather the argument is that we need more police because they don't have time to answer every little thing. Defund the police would help MASSIVELY with this. The reason the cops don't have time to answer every call is that they have so much extra shit they have to deal with that shouldn't require a cop. A drunk guy, homeless people, domestic disturbances etc. If we had social workers and addiction experts dealing with all those other calls cops would be freed up to actually respond to real crimes.
so your video seems to be a good example of why defund the police is a great idea.
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@Greyparrot
what goals would those be exactly.The ones you described.
I described antifa having no significant impact on american politics at all. They are a fringe protest group that the right uses as a boogey man. They have accomplished nothing meaningful other than being a useful foil for right wing loons.
So what exactly do you think they have accomplished?
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@Greyparrot
The entire defund movement was based on Antifa violence and intimidation.
no. This idea has been around for awhile. Basically, the government defunded other services and funneled more and more money to the police. So now police are required to deal with things they are not well suited to dealing with. Domestic disturbances, mental health issues, addiction issues etc. The idea to defund the police so that we could actually fund much more useful services has existed longer than Antifa. It has nothing to do with violence or antifa (except in the minds of right wing loons who see antifa behind every corner).
I'd say they achieved at least some of their stated goals.
what goals would those be exactly.
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@Wylted
Why? If people are easy to propagandize and are generally stupid, why do you think that randos should be in charge of policy?
because in any other method, the policy does not reflect what is best for the people. It exclusively reflects what is best for the rich and powerful.
Don't democracies just have citizens always voting on getting free shit until the country implodes?
No. Democracy has never caused a country to implode. Poor leadership, military coups etc are usually responsible.
Besides that, democracy seems a shitty way to maintain freedom. Citizens want laws against free speech. We had the comic book code, SJWs wanting hate speech banned and in a lot of democracies it is illegal to read the wrong books.
so to maintain freedom, you think only the rich and powerful should get a say in what the rules are? That is the exact opposite of freedom. That is tyranny.
I thought the media was trustworthy and could be trusted to report important and reliable things.
twitter isn't media. also, there is lots of "media" that is just propaganda. OAN and Fox "news" for example. So no, you can't just believe what "media" says either.
Are you saying that Trump was right to call the media fake news (rhetoric meaning sensationalistic among other things).?
people can be wrong, corrupt or just biased in any line of work. But at least organized media has standards they need to follow. Random garbage on twitter (or whatever other dark corners of the internet you get your conspiracy theory nonsense from) does not. And trump lies pretty much constantly. So him calling other people "fake news" is incredibly ironic.
Why would russia and China care what american citizens think of Corona virus. I guess if they were pushing the quarantine meme to destroy our economy it makes sense.
it's not about pushing one narrative or another. It's about creating division. That is why their bots push both far left and far right wing propaganda. The point is to make Americans hate each other to paralyze America. If the US government has to spend more time trying to manage their own people because they think there are brain control chips in flu shots, they have less time and energy do actually useful things.
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@Greyparrot
They are just less successful as Antifa
Antifa hasn't ever really accomplished anything. They are a fringe group largely ignored by the entire country (other than the right that loves to pretend they are some sort of threat).
These insane trumpists have largely taken over the republican party. They have now tried to overthrow democracy itself. Antifa is nowhere near as dangerous as they are.
Nobody voted for Antifa.
Of course not. They are a fringe protest group that barely matters at all.
We are not a Democracy anyway,
If the trump cultists get their way, no America would become a monarchy. But for the moment America is still a democracy.
but Antifa is creating a new Democracy based on mob rule and intimidation.
Antifa has never had any meaningful impact on American politics. They are little more than a right wing scape goat. They are the modern day version of the red scare from the cold War. A boogeyman meant to distract and scare people. Like those dangerous convoys that were supposedly coming right before the midterm elections. Then completely vanished without a trace when the midterms were over, never to be mentioned again.
Trumps cultists on the other hand are out there trying to overthrow democracy.
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@Greyparrot
They are getting smarter. Soon they will be as competent as Antifa at influencing policies through intimidation.
they attacked the capitol and tried to overthrow democracy. No one else in the history of america has ever tried to directly destroy democracy. They are far, far more dangerous than antifa.
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@Wylted
Did you know the FBI listed Ron Paul bumper stickers as a warning that somebody was a terrorist? Usually you don't tell people they are going to get rounded up. You build the list first and then make it a surprise so they have no time to react
1) please provide a source for that assertion. I'm guessing you got it from some idiot on the internet.
2) you are again arguing for something that has absolutely no evidence. You claim the government will round these people up when all available evidence says they are looking for right wing terrorists (the most common type of terrorist in america). You are choosing what you want to be true then picking and choosing which information you want to believe based on that.
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@Wylted
Intent and mindset matters. They thought Trump won.
if I think you are sleeping with my wife and then I murder you, whether or not you actually did it doesn't matter. I still committed murder. Whether or not they were right is irrelevant to their crimes. They tried to overthrow democracy. And the fact that every single case alleging some kind of fraud was thrown out of court for having no evidence is definitely a factor too. It is readily apparent that there was no significant amounts of fraud. They chose to believe in fairy tales and then tried to overthrow democracy based on that insanity.
There are legal methods to challenge an election. The republicans used them all but had absolutely no evidence that any significant fraud happened. Choosing to violently overthrow democracy because you can't find any evidence for your delusions in order to use the legal methods is not something we can permit.
What if declassified documents come out 20 years from now showing they were right?
what if 20 years later documents proved you really were sleeping with my wife? I would still be guilty of murder. And they would still be guilty of the slew of crimes they committed trying to destroy democracy.
Do we then get to call the police stopping them a part of an coup?
this doesn't make any sense so I don't know how to respond.
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@Wylted
Voting is done anonymously. By it's very nature it is undetectable for the most part.
so your argument is that you have absolutely no evidence that any kind of significant fraud has occurred. But you choose to believe it did even though every single person who knows anything about elections says it didn't happen. And every single lawsuit that alleged that fraud happened was thrown out for having not a single shred of evidence.
If you require no evidence for something in order to believe in it, then you are just choosing to believe in fairy tales.
A study was done to show how easy it was, and the participants in that study were threatened with arrest all though they merely turned in blank ballots. They weren't caught until the results were published.
i'm guessing you just made this up.
The fact it is virtually untraceable is why you need safe guards
literally no one has ever said we don't need safe guards. That is why we have them.
and no it is actually extremely easy to obtain ID. I'm homeless and have one. It's a common sense safeguard
some level of safe guards are needed. The onerous ones are like requiring multiple pieces of ID, which poor people often can't get easily. Or restrictions on when and where people can vote. If you make sure there is only 1 polling place in the poor areas of the city, people won't stand in line for 12 hours to vote. The republicans are doing all this and more. They even made it illegal to give someone water as they wait in line to vote in georgia. Anything to make it harder and more onerous to vote to keep the poor from actually voting.
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@coal
Imprison anyone who supported lockdowns, from Fauci and his grant fraud to the politicians that implemented them.
You realize that you are advocating for arresting people who tried to saves lives? Basically, you want to destroy freedom and kill alot of people while believing you are fighting for freedom.
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@Greyparrot
The only people armed and dangerous in that building were the DC police.Lethal as it turned out.
so you're saying the people who were supposed to defend democracy were armed? of course they were. So were the people attacking them. And the guy who planted pipe bombs.
If cosplay shamans taking selfies destroyed the entire government of Washington DC, then America would have deserved to fall.
Being an idiot isn't a defense for having committed terrible crimes. They wanted to overthrow democracy. They tried to overthrow democracy. The fact that they are incredibly stupid does not, in any way, reduce the severity of their crimes.
It's going to fall anyway when poor people see the new and improved inflation.
why? overthrowing a government wouldn't help that. It would just add more chaos and make everything worse. But you're right, most trump supporters are very stupid and would probably think violence would help somehow.
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@Greyparrot
The only people armed and dangerous in that building were the DC police.Lethal as it turned out.
so you're saying the people who were supposed to defend democracy were armed? of course they were. So were the people attacking them. And the guy who planted pipe bombs.
If cosplay shamans taking selfies destroyed the entire government of Washington DC, then America would have deserved to fall.
Being an idiot isn't a defense for having committed terrible crimes. They wanted to overthrow democracy. They tried to overthrow democracy. The fact that they are incredibly stupid does not, in any way, reduce the severity of their crimes.
It's going to fall anyway when poor people see the new and improved inflation.
why? overthrowing a government wouldn't help that. It would just add more chaos and make everything worse. But you're right, most trump supporters are very stupid and would probably think violence would help somehow.
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@Wylted
So we can't really trust what he says.
so you won't trust an expert on Epidemiology about a pandemic because some of the thing he said weren't true. But you are taking at face value fairly obviously insane or stupid things from people who offer no evidence and/or lie about their credentials. Not to mention that the proof that their insane theories are wrong are readily available since oromagi was able to provide this for you.
You should really re-evaluate how you judge sources. You are clearly picking sources that say what you want them to say and trusting them, rather than looking for trustworthy sources and trusting what they say.
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@Greyparrot
Once America decides taking selfies and cosplaying in the Capitol is an "attack", America then has zero moral ground to condemn any other nation on the planet for how they treat their political opposition.
a group of armed and organized men and women attacked the capitol building for the express purpose of preventing the results of a democratic election from being certified. They did this in the hope of installing the loser of the election as president, thus overthrowing democracy.
That is the most serious attack on america in a long, long time. If they had managed to succeed in their goal they could have done massive damage. They could have potentially ended democracy in america.
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@Wylted
the left encourages voter fraud by trying to make it easier through no ID voting places and mail in ballots.
so despite the evidence that there was no significant amounts of voter fraud, you think letting people vote means allowing voter fraud.... in your world evidence isn't needed at all is it?
the reason the right tries to make it harder to vote is because poor people and minorities have a harder time clearing those hurdles than white or wealthy people. And the whiter and richer the electorate becomes, the better the odds republicans have at winning. It isn't about fraud. It is about trying to keep the "wrong" people from voting. Because if every american actually voted, the republicans would be screwed.
They know liberals are more likely to help their grandma fill out her mainline voter form but accidentally they mark the democratic candidate because, well they know that their senile grandma won't know and that the fraud is undetectable.
most of the cases i have heard of this happening recently were trump voters. So your baseless assertion is silly.
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@Greyparrot
Putin in a recent interview questioned why so many Americans were willing to tolerate the government shooting protesting citizens in the neck and jailing 450 of them all as political prisoners.
no protesters got arrested. Once they entered the capitol they stopped being protesters and became traitors actively trying to overthrow democracy. Their stated goal was to stop the results of a democratic election from being accepted so they could install the loser as president. The moment they attacked the capitol they went from protesters to insurrectionists.
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@Wylted
In perhaps a lead up to what is about to happen with false flags, biden is asking citizens to report on people with right wing views possibly to be rounded up later. https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2021/06/15/biden-administration-asks-americans-to-report-potentially-radicalized-friends-and-family/
He asked people to report potential domestic terrorists. Most terrorism committed in the US isn't some scary foreigner. It is american citizens. No one is talking about "rounding up" right wing people. They are talking about keeping an eye on potentially radicalized terrorists.
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@sadolite
Who decides what is credible and what is true?
ultimately, we all decide for ourselves. But if the source is some random person on the internet with no proof whatsoever, then that is absolutely not credible. Doubly so when their claims don't make sense.
I am an extreme skeptic of everything and don't believe everything including this
if that were true, you wouldn't have taken this claim seriously. Anyone who is at all skeptical would read this and laugh. Because it is a bad joke. The claims don't make sense, the author is some lunatic on the internet who has made up lies before. There is no reason that anyone, anywhere should have taken this seriously.
Anything is possible in this day of mass disinformation.
if you are taking "articles" like this seriously, then yeah i can see why you are receiving mass disinformation.
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@fauxlaw
Funny, the only declared victims stand where the extinction line of the human race is occupied...on the left, by the Green Shyte Deal.
I'll never understand how anyone could possibly hate the green new deal. I mean it doesn't even set out specific policies you could disagree with. At the end of the day, all it says is that humans should pollute less. What kind of idiot gets offended by that?
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@coal
I would encourage you to develop a more sophisticated understanding of terrorism
this translates to "you should change the definition of terrorism so that all the right wing terrorism doesn't count"
But that definition is inadequate for its over inclusiveness, as I stated above.
you have yet to establish a single way it is "over inclusive". Most crime has nothing to do with politics. Most if it is either a crime of passion or for personal gain.
I told you above that there are serious methodological problems involved in how acts of "terrorism" are categorized. I gave you a specific example of how the expansive scope of what counts for "terrorism" can be manipulated for political reasons,
no, you haven't. You've said that if we limit the scope of terrorism that can be manipulated. And that is exactly what has happened since 9/11. The term was almost exclusively used to describe Muslims or ethnic minorities. If you were white and did anything short of bombing a crowd, the term would never be used on you. What I am describing is to stop politicizing the term and call all terrorism what it is, not just for muslims and brown people.
Your claim that a bank robbery or disgruntled employee's ransacking his employer's former office can be "easily distinguished" from terrorism is unavailing, where the very definition of terrorism that you proposed turns on motive and intent rather than outcome. If either of those acts were committed for political reasons, they're terrorism by definition. And because intent is something that is very subjective, and does not lend itself to white-and-black type interpretation or categorization; you're not in a position to make the claims you did, about distinguishing either from terrorism as you have defined it.
Terrorism is solely defined by motives though. if you bombed your business for the insurance money, thats a crime. If you bombed your business to cause terror, you're a terrorist. The exact same action, but one is terrorism and one isn't.
Your question of "Why does this confuse you?" is irritating as well. This is a subject matter you clearly don't understand at the level you think you do.
no, it's just a fairly simple concept that corrupt people insist on complicating to muddy the water. Right wing people can't have a simple definition of terrorism, because then most of the terrorist attacks in recent US history would be by right wing white guys. The US government can't have a simple definition because then they would be the world leader in terrorist attacks. You think that by trying to complicate the subject this means you have a "higher understanding" when really you are just trying to cover up terrorism.
Provide evidence that, as you claim "a group of rightwing loons tried to attack the capitol and murder a whole bunch of members of the government in an attempt to overthrow democracy. They that is a far bigger threat than any islamist one in years. that is a pretty massive magnitude."
what part of this is in question? lots of those right wing loons made public statements that they wanted to kill pence and Pelosi. So that isn't exactly a secret. Their stated goal was to try to prevent pence from finishing the democratic process and confirming Biden won the election. their stated goal was to stop the results of an election and to try to install trump as an illegal leader.
Which parts of this are in question, because they're proud of their treason and haven't tried to hide it.
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@fauxlaw
Telling me that I must fork over hard earned money to benefit someone who has no work ethic, but feels entitled, is not screwing me?
you can't even get through an explanation of how you feel victimized without attempting to victimize other people. That right there is an excellent highlight of how shitty the right is.
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