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A useful way to improve mental health
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@WyIted
Look at what happens to loose women. The get in abusive relationships, have a hard time pair bonding etc. 
there were way more abusive relationships before. You just didn't hear about them because the woman wasn't allowed to talk about it or leave them. They just had to suffer in silence. Now women are actually allowed to leave abusive jerks and talk about their experiences. So you hear about it far more. 

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A useful way to improve mental health
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@TheUnderdog
What % of those that wait regret it vs those that don't? 
I have no way of knowing that. And it doesn't seem yo do either.

Why else would they regret it?
presumably because they get trapped in a boring or abusive marriage because they never had a chance to see what life could be like.

I got addicted to porn (less intense than sex).  It changed my brain and I regret getting addicted.  I hope others don't make the same mistakes I did.
That's not the same thing. You said that sex changes your brain, which is false. Then gave an example of being addicted to something related to, but not sex. People can become "addicted" to pretty much anything. Games, working out etc. So if you think that is a valid argument, we should ban workouts. 

This would be way more common if the school system didn't tell people to never start.
my school did tell people not to smoke. It doesn't work. Teenagers want to rebel. If you tell them not to do something, they want to do it. 

The point of celibacy before marriage is to increase a man's power over his wife.
This is probably not true if both people wait.
It absolutely is. It prevents you from having any experience in a relationship. So you don't know if you should leave because they are a jerk. Because, for all you know, that's how all relationships are. This leaves women stuck with abusive and controlling men. 
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RFK backs cutting military budget by 50%
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@TheUnderdog
RFK's brain is in better condition than Biden's.
I have never seen any evidence of that. RFK is provably brain damaged. Biden has a stutter and sometimes forgets words.

Some things RFK has said are very crazy, but he wants to cut the military budget which as someone who is left, you would at least give credit to him on.
I don't really care what specific policy points he comes out with. He is completely unfit for any government position. Even if he announced a great platform, he's still a brain damaged lunatic. 

If you live in NY, then you would still vote for her, so don't act like bad statements you take back are deal breakers.
while I wouldn't want my elected officials to be racists or jerks, sadly, alot of people are. That isn't a completely disqualifying thing. Being a brain damaged lunatic is completely disqualifying. 

In the context of if RFK has a working brain, yes.  He took that statement back and I think it's genuine.
In the sense that he is capable of speaking and isn't dead, yes he has a working brain. But it badly damaged and that makes him unfit for office. Comparing that to someone who may be a jerk is a very weak argument. 
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I got to admit this is suspicious
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@TheUnderdog
Cool. But stuff like this is the core of basically all of the election conspiracy nonsense. Someone misreads a graph, or sees a mother hand her daughter a stick of gum in security footage and jumps to incorrect conclusions. You should try to be more careful before jumping to conclusions.
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A useful way to improve mental health
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@TheUnderdog
That's strange.  A bunch of people that I met lost their virginity before marraige and they regretted it long term (including 1 democrat woman I met). 
ok. and? I'm sure you also know lots of people who lost their virginity before marriage and don't regret it. And even if they did regret it, that isn't evidence it causes poor mental health. 

Sex changes your brain.
no it doesn't. 

If the school system discourages sex like they did to tobacco citing mental health, then a lot of teens will break the rules; but most won't because they tend to listen to authority at least to some extent (like if they never told us to not smoke in school, then the smoking rate would be way higher than it is now).
lol I don't know where you went to school, but smoking was still super common when I was in high school. These days they just switched to other things like vaping. I also knew a bunch of people who used chewing tobacco for some reason. It was disgusting. 

I would assume the more sexual partners, the worse it is for your mental health.
you can assume whatever you want. But without evidence, that means nothing at all. 

My, "High body count is bad for your mental health" argument is for both genders.  It's what should be promoted for all.
Ok, that doesn't negate my point even slightly. The point of celibacy before marriage is to increase a man's power over his wife. That is what it is designed to do. 
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RFK backs cutting military budget by 50%
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@TheUnderdog
Your argument is he can't earn an income from a generic job (something that I think is true of Obama).  If Obama tried to get a job at Chipolte, then all it takes is for one person to go to that restaurant that really hates Obama to shoot it up and then Chipolte suffers as a result.  Obama is unemployable through ways that don't reflect badly on him.
You're not making any sense. I'm not saying he can't earn an income. He said that. He said that he is so badly brain damaged that he can't earn an income. My point is not to highlight he can't earn money. He's a rich asshole. I'm sure he can get any number of companies to pay him to give a speech. My point is that he has admitted that he is so badly brain damaged he can no longer continue in his career. And if he is incapable of working his day job because of brain damage, he obviously should not be president.

Thus proving that stupid people believe they are smart and that stupid people can, and do, run for president. 
But what's your point?  How does that relate to RFK?  
my point is that he is a stupid/crazy person who thinks he is a smart/sane person. 

So you believe brain damage can never be healed, but a stroke can be (which is why you think it's bad for RFK but not Fettermann)?
Again, he is the one who said he was permanently brain damaged. How are you not getting this?

Biden is elderly. 
That's part of the reason he shouldn't be the head of the ticket.
agreed. Sadly he is the best candidate running. 

RFK sometimes says the wrong thing and apoligizes.
the man has been saying crazy shit for years. I don't care if he apologizes for it. He is not fit to be in any public office. 

Kathy Hocul said black kids don't know how to use the internet.  She took the statement back and I forgave her back then. 
yep, that's kind of racist and dumb. Doesn't have anything to do with mr. brain worms though.

RFK is more articulate than Biden after sundown; that's a fact.
Is that important? I'll take less articulate and sane over more articulate and thinks covid was designed to not kill jews. 
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A useful way to improve mental health
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@WyIted
That's bullshit, and no virgins have considerably more boundaries than sluts
You're not understanding me. Women who are empowered, who have experience dating and know how they should be treated are much less likely to put up with shit from their husband. Men wanted their women to be virgins so they would be able to control them more easily. 

These kind of outdated rules are ridiculous. If you personally want to abide by them, go for it. But we as a society should absolutely not be pushing them.
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A useful way to improve mental health
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@TheUnderdog
Encourage people to wait until marriage because a high body count is very bad for mental health.
1st, I don't think that's true. I've been flipping between research studies (admittedly only for about 10 minutes)  and it doesn't seem to be supported. Some studies do suggest that there is a coloration, but it seems like it is more that people engaging in risky behavior (such as drugs and other criminal activity) are more likely to have multiple partners. So the relation between sex and negative mental health is more related to people doing risky behaviors have mental health issues. Not the sexual partners specifically.


Also, this doesn't work. This has never worked. It's fine to encourage abstinence. But to pretend like teenagers aren't going to have sex is just silly.

Anti abortion conservatives and pro mental health liberals can unite on the following belief: Premarital sex is bad and should be strongly discouraged just like smoking!
no, they can't. I can kind of agree that they shouldn't have tons of sexual partners. But that is a far cry from no premarital sex. That idea is mostly used to try to control and subjugate women. IE if women have no experience in sex and dating, then they are far less likely to set proper boundaries in marriage since they have no experience to know where to say no. It makes women easier to control.
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RFK backs cutting military budget by 50%
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@TheUnderdog
because on top of brain damage so bad he is unable to earn income
His net worth is $50 million.
yeah, his family is rich. He also, at one point, was able to work. I believe he was a lawyer. How does that have anything to do with him being brain damaged?

I think that's a conspiracy.  They only do that to dead people
RFK has publicly said they found worms in his brain and that his doctor believe it was the cause of his serious neurological issues. These are his public statements. I don't know how you could say it's a conspiracy. 

Sometimes people say something that's taken the wrong way and they apologize for it later. 
He said "covid was designed to". That is a very clear statement. I believe he back peddled later when his friends/family/handlers explained how batshit crazy that is.

That's not my argument.  My argument is if you want power, then you, believe you are smart.  
ok, that's still irrelevant. Crazy and stupid people usually think they're smart. 

Donald Trump believes he is very smart.  You think he's stupid; but you aren't the one in charge of his campaign.
you're kind of just repeating my point. Trump is stupid. He believes he's smart. Thus proving that stupid people believe they are smart and that stupid people can, and do, run for president. 

If he said that, then he wouldn't run.  Like, I'm not qualified to become a mechanic; I know nothing about car anatomy.  That's why I don't work at Autozone as a mechanic and why I don't apply to work at Autozone.
you're not making any sense. He testified he is brain damaged. Those are his words that he swore under penalty of perjury were true. Now, years later, he thinks that he should be president. Lots of crazy people think they should be president. But most crazy people aren't millionaires with the last name Kennedy. 

Surely RFK's brain works better than Biden's (whom I'm assuming you would vote for)?
I don't have any idea why you would think this is true. Biden is elderly. He's a stutter his whole life which seems to have gotten worse. He sometimes struggles for words and says the wrong thing. RFK thinks diseases are designed not to kill jews. 
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I got to admit this is suspicious
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@TheUnderdog
It's a near vertical line;
of course it's a vertical line. They got the results of alot of mail in ballots all at once. Why would it not be?

77% is a slope of about 3x higher than the MAGA slope.  This is like 30x.
I don't know what you are talking about. The blue line goes up about 3 times more than the red line does. 30x would be completely off the graph.
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RFK backs cutting military budget by 50%
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@TheUnderdog
They weren't even the cause of his brain damage though. 
Then why bring it up?
because on top of brain damage so bad he is unable to earn income, he also has brain worms eating at his brain. Seems relevant to whether he should have nuclear codes.

RFK testified under oath he is incapable of earning a living due to brain damage. He himself admits he is incapable of holding down a job.
Then why is he running for POTUS?
lust for power? greed? he's crazy? who knows. How would I know the motives of a brain damaged lunatic?

He said he didn't mean it like that and his argument was these groups were less likely to kill these groups.
Ohhh so he didn't mean the thing he said very clearly.... that clears that up.

There are people that are very stupid in this country that admit they are stupid.  These people don't run for POTUS.
what? your argument is because he wants power, he must be smart? That's insane. It is often the case that dumb people lust for power. Trump, for example. 

Everyone running for POTUS believes they are smart and have a healthy brain.
ok, and my neighbor believed he was perfectly healthy too. He also thought it was 1987. Believing you are smart and have a healthy brain does not make it so. He has brain damage. And he testified under oath that this brain damage made it impossible for him to earn a living. Why are you pretending like that isn't disqualifying? Even he says he isn't qualified to be president. There are court documents to prove it.
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I got to admit this is suspicious
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@TheUnderdog
What are you talking about? That looks like about 77% to me. Also, Trump and his goons started TONS of lawsuits about this and all were thrown out for having no evidence. Why are you still talking about it like there a question as to whether there was fraud? There has been YEARS of investigations and no one has found anything. 
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RFK backs cutting military budget by 50%
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@TheUnderdog
Is RFK cured of brainworms?
who knows. They weren't even the cause of his brain damage though. 

Because Fetterman had a stroke when the left liked him and the left argued him being cured made his past irrelevant.  Treat RFK the same way.
I absolutely would, if it were even remotely comparable. RFK testified under oath he is incapable of earning a living due to brain damage. He himself admits he is incapable of holding down a job.

Also, he is obviously crazy as hell. I mean I've heard him say that Covid was designed not to kill jews and chinese people. The man is not right in the head. 

If he's cured, then it shouldn't matter.
brain damage doesn't get "cured". And he testified under oath that it wouldn't. 
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Trump has more chances to win the elections after the shooting
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@IlDiavolo
I didn't mention any polls. I said there are studies that determined Trump has 70% of chances to win. 
lol studies? please show me the studies that say he has a 70% chance of winning. 

So, if you have some money, put it all on Trump in any betting house, they pay good if you bet on him. 
why are you talking about betting? You can't refute my arguments so you just change the topic. 

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Trump has more chances to win the elections after the shooting
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@IlDiavolo
Act 1. The left, with the help of the media, tries to take Trump down in the social media. They couldn't. 
I don't even know what this means. So I can't really comment on it. 

Act 2. The left tries to put Trump in jail or at least make him bankrupt. They couldn't 
You do know he was found guilty of dozens of felonies and still has multiple outstanding cases? He hasn't been found innocent of anything. He is still looking at serious jail time. 

Act 3. The left tries to kill Trump. They couldn't. 
when did that happen? All I've heard about is a conservative taking a shot at him. 

Act 4. I think everyone here would be able to fill this act. Trump has 70% of probabilities to be the next president according to some studies. Fom 59% before the shooting to 70%. That is fucking crazy!! So, the logical conclusion is that Trump is already the president of the United States of North America. 
the polling before the shooting was biden slightly in the lead. And the people making those odds have no better idea of what is going to happen than anyone else. They are betting there will be a significant rally around the flag effect. But given that it was a right wing loon who took the shot at him, and given how horrible trump and project 2025 are, it's not clear that will happen. 

I know you don’t give a shit because you belong to the hard left wing, but at least everyone here can get what it's really going on. 
If you want to hang out in an echo chamber and hear right wing nonsense repeated back at you all the time, you go for it. 

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@DavidAZZ
I'm sure that a lot of quotes are taken out of context with this and who doesn't have acquaintances that that they don't agree with everything.
we aren't talking about a few acquaintances. We are talking about 140 people who worked for his last administration being involved in project 2025. Six of his former Cabinet secretaries, Four individuals Trump nominated as ambassadors, 20 pages are credited to his first deputy chief of staff. Several of the lawyers trump used in his former cases are involved as well such as his impeachment attorney Jay Sekulow and two of the legal architects of his failed bid to overturn the 2020 presidential election, Cleta Mitchell and John Eastman.

The list of connections between trump and the people who wrote project 2025 are massive. Literally hundreds of people, many of whom worked closely with him. Many of them still do.

Here is a link to an article (and the recording itself) discussing a recent audio recording of the leader of project 2025 where he says that it "makes sense" that donald trump needs to pivot and pretend he doesn't know about project 2025. Basically confirming that trump is pretending he doesn't know about it. Which, to be clear, he has publicly said he has no idea who is behind project 2025, even though it is basically a who's who of his former staffers.

and told them to go home when it got out of hand
lol no. All reporting, as well as text messages, say that people were literally begging trump to make a statement telling them to stop their attack. He refused. He was watching the whole thing live on TV and laughing about it. 

Trump was informed about the attack on the capitol at 1:21 pm. He tweeted a video telling them to stop at 4:17 pm. It took him almost 3 hours to tell them to stop and only after it was clear that the attack had failed all the while he watched and laughed as the crowd yelled that they were going to hang his VP.

but keep in mind that Pelosi refused National Guard troops and did claim responsibility on this.
this is a lie. That never happened. Trump never ordered national guard troops. Pelosi never refused national guard troops. In fact Pelosi, Pence and Mitch McConnell all called the pentagon and begged for military assistance. Pelosi isn't even in charge of Security, so she couldn't have refused National Guard troops even if she wanted to.
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@DavidAZZ
I suppose the Jan 6 thing can be perceived as such.
how can you perceive it in any other way? He tried to overturn the results of an election with an illegal plot, and when that plot was failing used a violent attack on the seat of democracy to try to illegally seize power. I don't see how you could see it differently. 

But the 2025 project is not even his platform and everything I have read about him "destroying democracy" is hear-say and a maybe and such.
While technically true that it's not his platform, the people writing it and pushing for it are close trump allies. He has publicly praised the group in the past. His own press secretary is heavily involved in the project 2025. 

Here is a quote from a clip of trump in 2022 where he talks about the group behind 2025. This would heavily imply that he is both aware of and supports project 2025. Here is the clip if you want to see it, just skip to 2:15.

“Our country is going to hell. The critical job of institutions such as Heridges to [sic] lay the groundwork,” Trump stumbled. “And Heridges does such an incredible job at that,” Trump added, stumbling again.
“They’re going to lay the groundwork and detail plans for exactly what our movement will do and what your movement will do, when the American people give us a colossal mandate to save America, and that’s coming,” 

Here is an article describing all the people trump is linked to who were involved in helping to write or promote project 2025 https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/11/politics/trump-allies-project-2025/index.html

So pretending like it has nothing to do with him is pretty disingenuous. He might not agree with every single point of the plan, but if he got re-elected, alot of it would become public policy.
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@DavidAZZ
Can you describe what he is doing, or will try to do, to overthrow democracy?
You can read all about january 6th. Trump lost the election. So he came up with a criminal scheme to appoint fake electors and have them counted instead. He pressured his VP to go along with the scheme (which he had no power to do). His VP refused, so he organized an attack on congress to prevent the real results from being counted. If he had succeeded, he would have illegally seized power and toppled the democratically elected president.

This is all pretty well documented. 

To go into what he will do, read up on project 2025, along with his statements and recent supreme court rulings. He has openly and repeatedly said that he will abuse his power if re-elected to go after any perceived enemies. He argued to the supreme court that, if re-elected, he would have the power to assassinate his political enemies (an actual argument they made in court) and that it would be legal. The supreme court agreed.

There's more, but that's more than enough for anyone unbiased to see he is a tyrant. 
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@IlDiavolo
You're right that it increases his odds, but it's unclear by how much. Trump is a pretty polarizing guy. If you think he's trying to overthrow democracy (which he is), then why would it matter if some nut job took a shot at him? He was dangerous before that, he's dangerous now. Nothing has changed. There are probably some undecided people who would change their mind over this, but I'd guess there's not many.

Also, it will undermine any boost he gets if it turns out the shooter was a right wing wack job. The evidence so far says it was. Then it might turn against him. Trump spent years radicalizing people and stoking violence. then some right wing loon takes a shot at him? That's a  good reason to vote against trump...
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Trump’s assassin was a white American with an AR-15
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@Mharman
So this dude donated to ActBlue on 2021
no, someone with that 1st and last name did. That does not prove it was this guy. I've seen interviews from friends and people who knew him in high school. They describe him as  a conservative guy. 

Also, that donation was made when he was 17. Odds are it was not him.
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RFK backs cutting military budget by 50%
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@Best.Korea
He is a smart person, but also cut healthcare.
lol he literally had brain worms. He testified under oath that he was incapable of earning a living due to his brain damage. But now wants people to believe he is capable of being president
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How to troll BLM
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@RationalMadman
Do you honestly think life is so easy as a white man?
in a vacuum? no. Life is hard for everyone. Compared to being black, yes. Black people have all the same troubles and problems white people do, but with the extra ones of discrimination based on their race. 

How happy are you amdmhow easy is it to get there? Bet it has nothing to do with your race. 
It's hard to say if had anything to do with my race. Maybe if I had been black I wouldn't have gotten into university? Maybe if I had been black I wouldn't have been hired for the jobs I have had. Maybe if I had been black a cop would have decided he didn't like the look of me and trumped up charges against me. Maybe if I'd been black, when I reached for my license on a traffic stop I would have been shot. 

On a separate note, affirmative action punishes white men the most, objectively.
this is objectively true. But that's like saying democracy punishes royalty and nobility. The nobles lose power and influence when you allow commoners to have power and influence. But that power and influence was based on the discrimination against the "commoners". A more equal society has to take away from those who monopolize power over society.

White men have always been in the position of having hugely over inflated wealth and power. Anything that makes society more equal, by definition, will take away from white men. If you want to cling onto a world where you are the dominant race and are able to discriminate against others to protect your status, you can try. but it wont end well for anyone. 
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How to troll BLM
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@TheUnderdog
One is genetic (race), the other is genetic (autism based intelligence).
no, one is genetic (race) the other is having a subject matter expert living in your house to help teach you. 

So you can be proud of privileges that are objectively good (being born smarter) but not privileges that are objectively neutral (being white)?  That seems like a fair standard.
no, you can be proud of privileges that are objectively good. You can't be proud of privileges that are based on you hurting other people. 

It would be more like, "Highly funded school privilege" which I would be proud of if I had it since I want schools to be better funded to increase national average IQ.
better funded schools are a good thing. But the system we have means that "white" areas tend to have better funded schools. I would fully support better funding all schools. 

I have a sister.  My dad helped her out and he helped me out.  Only one of us is very good at math (me; not my sister).  I believe at math, I am genetically smarter than my white sister.  Dad was helping us both out.
It's possible your genetics played a part. But personality also likely played a big role. As an example, I have siblings that were very good at science. So I didn't want to focus on science classes and focused on things like history instead. Maybe your sister saw you were really good at math and focused on something else. Maybe she was mad at your dad and associated math with him. Maybe she just didn't like school at all and was a poor student. There are a million things that could have affected that outcome. 

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Death to murderers and those that r***
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@TheUnderdog
Alright; so then what is the point of appeals of the Supreme Court can refuse to have your case anyways?
the supreme court isn't there to decide whether or not you committed a crime. They are there to decide on issues of law. Like, did the cop who stopped you and searched you do it illegally. They only take cases where there is such a question to decide. For example, Trump is trying to argue that the President has the king like power to be completely immune to criminal prosecution forever. The Supreme court took that case so they can definitively say that he does not. 

Are you willing to spend all of your excess money sponsoring starving children?  If yes, then become broke.  If no, then you are the same as I am (except that I'm more honest).
you are changing the subject. The point isn't whether or not I want to spend all my money "sponsoring starving children", the point is that anyone who says that a tax cut for themselves is more important than children starving to death, is an asshole. 

All fiscal conservatives support cutting taxes for themselves even if it means a starving kid would die.
I'm going to guess that this is a lie. Most would agree they want to cut taxes, but would shy away from actually looking at the consequences of their actions. If you actually pinned them down and asked them if the government should allow poor children to starve to death, most would say no. 

ok? and right wing states get no where near that. what's your point?
That I believe public school teachers should get paid more and it can be supplemented by cutting spending on prisons by executing murderers and ra**sts.  The prison population would get reduced by about 20%.  A huge win for criminal justice reform advocates.
then your point is stupid. Teachers could be paid more tomorrow if that is what you actually wanted. Connecting the 2 issues is a common shitty tactic the right uses. What they actually want is to cut funding for policy A, so they whine about how it could be better spend on policy B. But then when more funding for policy B gets suggested, they oppose it anyway. That is exactly what you are doing. 

South America is a shithole; and there is no need to follow the herd with a bunch of small EU nations vs the 2-4th largest nation in the world.
lol we are talking about the majority of nations in the world and almost all of the developed world. America and Japan are the only western nations I can think of that actually use the death penalty. Everyone else abolished it because it is pointless.

Nope.  They are totally related.  More money for prisons means less money for teachers (unless you raise taxes, which is a 3rd rail in the US).
they are in no way related. That's like saying if your neighbor eats a sandwich, you have to starve to death. There are enough sandwiches for everyone. You don't have to illegally kill a bunch of people to give teachers a raise.

My tax cuts > innocent stranger's life > murderer's life.  If you disagree with that, then become poor by giving your money to stranger kids in Alabama or Harlem.  Poor people's suffering is not my problem.
lol most people would disagree with that. I mean, it is just straight up cartoon villain evil. Even trump would denounce that as stupid and evil, and he's pretty stupid and evil. 
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I've finally officially accepted that the minimum wage should be 15 bucks an hour
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@n8nrgim
a year ago bernie sanders said he thought 17 an hour was a good idea, or maybe more. i actually thought that by now he'd want it to be a lot higher, given in 2016 he thought 15 was good. i wonder what his current thought is? 
yeah, this is kind of the problem with national minimum wage. It doesn't make alot of sense. The amount of money you need to live in new york is very different the amount of money you need to live in a small town. The cost of living is drastically different. So forcing them to have the same minimum wage is silly. No matter what you set it at, it will almost certainly be too high in some areas and too low in others. 

It would probably be a better system if you could tie it to something more local. 

i often associate you with bernie sanders type of voters, is why i make the points in the last post . 
this is probably fair. I agree with him about alot of stuff. 
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Death to murderers and those that r***
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@TheUnderdog
Not sure about that.
you aren't sure that appeals are part of due process? That is a really basic fact about the legal system.

Otherwise the Supreme Court would weigh in on every murder charge because all convicted murderers would want to appeal.
they could if they wanted to. You know the supreme court can refuse to take cases right?

I'm just being a fiscal conservative; advocating for cutting government spending and accepting the logical consequences of that; children starve.
yes, and this is what makes you a gaping asshole. saving yourself a little money is more valuable to you than children's lives. that's psychopathic. 

You are calling all fiscal conservatives giant assholes by calling me one based on this quote
I'm not saying all fiscal conservatives are giant assholes. I am saying that anyone who says a tax cut for themselves is more important than children's lives is a giant asshole. If all fiscal conservatives agree with that statement, only then would they all be giant assholes. 

I believe the minimum teacher salary should be $80K/year.  But every left wing state wants to get to that and they haven't.
ok? and right wing states get no where near that. what's your point?

 government that complains that teachers aren't getting paid enough money while blowing money on murderers is a government that makes no sense.
you're back to making ridiculous statements again. These two things are completely unrelated. 

And the EU is in good company with Kenya, Cameroon, and South Africa.  
and canada, and the UK and mexico and almost all of south america, and pretty much every western nation. 

No need on the US copying the EU.  America is a better place to live than the EU.
lmao. You said western countries have the death penalty. When I point out that no they do not, you go "well I didn't like them anyway!!!". that is so childish. 
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Projection.
lol whatever you say. I can read that his findings were that he could not prove that Joe biden broke any laws. He might have personally believed joe biden retained the documents illegally, but he found insufficient evidence to support that claim. That is why he didn't charge him. The only reason he chose to describe it that way is that he was a republican operative that wanted to spin "there wasn't enough evidence to charge him with anything" in a way that slandered Biden. 

And ultimately, all of this side conversation is just a diversion. Biden gave volunteered the information he had the documents. He gave them all back willingly and complied with investigation. Trump didn't do anything of that. All of trump's charges stem from him refusing to comply when ordered to give the documents back and then obstructing the investigation. No charges like that are possible for biden because he gave them all back as soon as it was revealed he had them. 
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Executive summary, second paragraph, page 1.
some basic reading comprehension would help you out here. I asked you to show me where he engaged in "willful retention" of the documents. IE that he knew he wasn't allowed to have them and he kept them anyway. You showed me a quote where he said he willingly showed documents to someone. IE, he showed someone his own hand written notes that he thought he was allowed to have. 

do you see the issue? That isn't willful retention of the documents. 

Nowhere does Hur bring up the possibility "nobody asked for them back" as a defense to "willful retention"
you haven't even shown willful retention, and yet you are describing defense to it lol. Biden thought he was allowed to keep them. For it to be willful retention, he has to have known that he wasn't allowed. Hur could not find evidence that would show that biden did this. Therefore he did not press any charges.


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@ADreamOfLiberty
If that is what "willful retention" means then why did Hur say Biden willfully retained classified documents?
the report was quite long, so I don't know what part of the document you are talking about. Please provide a reference to where exactly he said it, or stop repeating it. 

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@TheUnderdog
I would rather get all the evidence needed the day of the trial
that is not how the law works. Part of "due process" is the appeals process. Denying it to people based on your emotions is not okay. 

My tax cuts matter to me more than the life of a starving kid in America that we know is innocent; I'm fiscally conservative.
yes we know you are a giant, gaping asshole. I'm not sure why you like repeating it so much. 

why are people willing to spend $25.2 billion/year on convicted murderers and r***sts when 96% of them actually did one of the worst crimes in our legal system?
Your question is stupid. The alternative would be letting them go, or executing a bunch of potentially innocent people. Both are unacceptable. 

Fiscal conservatism means some poor people are going to have to die and I and all fiscal conservatives are alright with that to save money on taxes.
it also means you don't give a shit about the constitution or people's rights apparently. 

I'm alright with that because I don't believe human life (even innocent human life) is priceless and the people that believe innocent human life (IHL) is priceless have not thought it through.
I didn't say human life was priceless. I said that compensation cannot be given. If you accidentally imprison the wrong person, you can't give them their years back, but you can give them a money amount in compensation for what they have lost. If you've killed them, there is no compensation possible. 

The bluest states in the country with the highest teacher salaries still have any teachers there wanting more money.
teachers are underpaid everywhere, yes.

f the government wanted to pay teachers more money, then why haven't they done so?
this is exactly my point, and exactly why your point was stupid. You don't want to give teachers more money. You said that just try to make your argument sound better. I'm glad you have acknowledged your point was completely irrelevant and just an attempt to win pity points. 

Well abolishing the death penalty is something rouge Latin American states would do.
it's something most modern nations do. 56% of countries in the world have banned the death penalty. only 27% of countries use it. So the US is in good company with countries like Saudi arabia, afganistan and Iran.

There are both western and non western countries that both have and don't have the death penalty. 
there are almost no "western" nations that have the death penalty. Almost all have banned it. 
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@ADreamOfLiberty
If that is what "willful retention" means then why did Hur say Biden willfully retained classified documents?
The critical difference is that biden believed he was allowed to have them since they were his own personal notes. He didn't know having them was wrong. Once he found out it was, he gave them back. 

Trump was told having the documents was wrong. He refused to give them back. He hid them. He lied about having them. And they weren't his own personal notes. There were random classified documents like invasion plans for foreign countries.

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 The charges against trump is all based on his refusal to give them back and what he did with them after he wasn't allowed to have them. 
False:
Trump is charged separately for each of 32 documents under the Espionage Act.
lol, you repeated what I said, then said false. those 32 charges under the espionage act are for willfully retaining the documents. IE after he was told he wasn't allowed to have them and that he needed to give them back, he "willfully retained them". Which is exactly what I said. He wasn't charged for taking the documents. He was charged for not giving them back. If trump had just given the documents back when he was told he had to, he never would have been charged. 
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@TheUnderdog
What's the difference between white privilige and smart privilige?
one is based on your race. The other is based on your dad teaching you math. You really can't see the difference between those two things?

Me getting a good score means I'm more egilable for jobs that caused someone else to be disqualified.
uh huh. but you took the same test. They could study hard and get the same score. You doing well is not white privilege. now, if you go to a school that is well funded, has lots of one on one teacher/student time and that caused you to get good grades, but black students a few miles away have to go to a run down school where 1 math teacher is teaching 50 kids and has no time to help them individually, then that would be white privilege. You see the difference?

So it's ok to be proud of whatever privilige you have.
unless it is based on repression of others. then it isn't. 

I'm not saying me being white made me good at math.  But my genes I think had a lot to do with it (by genes, I think I mean high functioning autistic genes; not white genes).
there is certainly a genetic component to intelligence. but you know what is an even bigger component to being good at math? Having a math teacher for a dad. He was likely available to help teach you. That's not genetic. 
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@TheUnderdog
Random people being strangled don't have their due process.
appeals are part of due process. But you are fine with denying that. 

Electric chair doesn't violate the 8th amendment.
I mean executing people without giving them their right to appeal. 

My tax cuts matter more to me than felon's lives.
your tax cuts matter more to you than a potentially innocent persons' life. Without the proper appeal process, you can't know if you are executing an innocent person. But that doesn't matter to you. 

I just don't think electric chair counts as cruel and unusual punishment.
I never said it was. I haven't really looked into how cruel each type of execution method is. It's not really my point. My point is that executing people is stupid and pointless. It has no value. It doesn't benefit society. It is time consuming and expensive. And if you try to make it faster and cheaper, you massively increase the risks that you are executing innocent people. Life in prison is cheaper and always leaves open the possibility that an innocent person will be able to be released. It is the better option in pretty much every way.

But imprisonment costs too much money and our teachers deserve the money more than murderers.
this is a common fake argument right wing people use. I don't like policy A, so I argue we should defund it and give the money to something popular (teachers, soldiers, puppies, whatever). But this is a fake comparison. There is nothing about the prison system that takes money away from teachers. If the government wanted, they could give money to teachers tomorrow. This argument is very, very stupid. 

It costs more to execute people because death row inmates often spend 30 years in prison before execution.  I would eliminate that; if convicted, then they get executed by electric chair in the courtroom; saving the taxpayer money.  They wouldn't spend 30 years in prison; but 0.
it would also be unconstitutional to deny them their right to appeal. It would also lead to many innocent people being executed. This is the kind of thing saudi arabia or other totalitarian states would do. 
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Refusal to cooperate with the government is not inherently a crime in a free nation.
actually it is. If you lie to investigators that is a crime. If you refuse to return stuff you don't have any right to have, that is a crime too. 

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@Greyparrot
Refusal to cooperate is a separate crime. The classified doc cases are nearly identical.
nope. In neither case are they charged with taking the documents. The charges against trump is all based on his refusal to give them back and what he did with them after he wasn't allowed to have them. 

As soon as biden realized they were there, he gave them back and fully cooperated with the investigation. All of trump's charges are based on stuff Biden never did. 

You realize that all this apologizing for the corrupt actions of the establishment Democrats is the main reason why people like Bernie and RFK are never allowed to sit at the front of the bus....
lol what? What corrupt actions are you even talking about? You haven't established any corruption from democrats in this discussion. I'm not saying there isn't any, but you haven't brought any up.

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@Greyparrot
Is this Hur's words or your fiction?
The primary thing he had taken was his own handwritten notes. Hur's findings was that he legitimately believed that he was allowed to take them since he had written them. He provided an example where another president (I forget which one) had done the same thing. If he believed that he was allowed to take them because he had written them, then it would be impossible to prove that he knowingly did anything illegal. And if he didn't know, it wasn't illegal. 

Trump, by comparison, was told over and over and over that what he was doing was illegal and refused to comply. 
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@ADreamOfLiberty
It was never put to trial. Alternate electors isn't a criminal conspiracy.
on it's own? no. In Hawaii they had a legitimately hard situation. The vote was so close that different counts gave different outcomes. no one could legitimately say they knew what the outcome was. That is not true of 2020. There was absolutely no evidence the outcome was illegitimate. Trump had many chances to argue in court and provide proof of fraud and he provided none. And now, 4 years later, there still is no evidence of fraud. The situation is entirely different. 

The end.
if only it had been. Trump did LOADS of illegal shit. he tried to convince election officials to "find" enough votes for him to be declared the winner. He tried to pressure his VP to illegally prevent the electoral college votes from being counted. There's a long list. 
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@Greyparrot
He probably will eventually lose many of the cases, but the criminal convictions won't come before November.
I meant he will lose the election. He obviously lose the criminal cases. He committed the crimes very publicly and there is mountains of evidence. 

The optics for rushing the cases through before November and without due process have resulted in the current polling against Biden's DOJ.
I don't think they are rushing the cases through. It shouldn't take years to bring his cases to trial. The reason it is taking so long is that trump is doing everything he can to delay them. 
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@ADreamOfLiberty
I previously challenged you to demonstrate people going to prison for the Hawaii alternate electors and you failed so it's not like it's the first time you've been exposed to clues.
because i instead proved how the 2 scenarios were different. In hawaii, different counts of the votes came up with different outcomes. There was legitimate and proven doubt about the outcome. Trump was unable to come up with a single shred of evidence that there was fraud that affected the outcome. His own investigators told him there wasn't. So the 2 events are very different. 

He legally took the classified documents. He legally stored them. He then forgot about them.
Very legal and all.
I'm not sure what your point is. There is nothing illegal about that.

Trump took the documents. Whether he was allowed is a little bit of a grey area
It wasn't so grey when every other president and executive lackey did it.
Trump took the documents after he had already lost the election. He was days, if not hours, away from no longer being president and therefore not being allowed to have the documents anymore. At the moment he packed the documents he was allowed to have them. At the moment they arrived in Mar-a-lago, he was not allowed to have them. That is not the same as any other case I am aware of.

but that's not what he's charged with anyway
Yes it is.
no, his charges are about illegally possessing the documents, and refusing to give them back. Basically, everything he did after he left office. Not what he did while in office. 

The national archive spent a year and half telling trump he had documents he wasn't allowed to have and asking him to give them back.
They don't get to decide. They weren't even allowed to ask Clinton what documents he had.
they very much are allowed to decide. That is what their job is. 

Biden not only lied to investigators but to the entire world when he said he did not share classified information with his ghostwriter.
please show evidence he lied to the republican investigator tasked with investigating his documents.

Said that he didn't think a jury would convict so he wasn't charging. Very different, also clearly corrupt.
that was one thing he said he considered. he also said "We conclude that no criminal charges are warranted in this matter,". He found no evidence that biden had committed a crime. Right wing news outlets chose to focus on specific quotes to try and paint is a a corrupt cover up. 
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@FishChaser
Look at people who are white and male and you will see that they are overwhelmingly normal ass dudes who don't have anything special going for them. 
what? That doesn't even make sense. I never said they were special. I said they get treated as if they are special. Look at the percentage of white males in america, then look at the percentage of white males that make up the government. Or that make up manager level positions in companies. They are WAY over represented. 

But the fact remains that it is no longer normal for whites to be racist and it is still normal for everyone else to be racist when it comes to actual hate of other groups and not just some slight subconscious bias.
I guess it depends on what you mean by "normal". Another guy is currently arguing with me on this site about how he is proud that he gets treated better than black people. So you may want to re-evaluate that opinion. 

I'm talking about the ones who hate me by default for being a white male.
I have no idea what your experience is. I don't know if that is even true. But even if it were true, it wouldn't really be relevant to a discussion about society as a whole. Maybe you live in a racist town. Or maybe you just interpret people hating you as racist, when they hate you for you. I can't know that.

It has to do with pretty privilege, height privilege, neurotypical privilege, "normal" privilege and female privilege.

All of these are more pervasive and severe than white privilege.
All of those except "female privilege" I would concede definitely do exist and are also an issue. Female privilege, I would need to know more about what you are talking about. For example, females are often favored in divorce or custody proceedings. That is certainly privilege. But in most respects, women are treated worse than men in our society. So saying they are privileged as a group, I would strongly disagree with.

And I would definitely not agree that any of these are as pervasive or severe as white privilege. 

You don't care about my experience but you care about black people's experience even if they aren't experiencing shit.
I care about your experience in the same way I care about any one individual black person's experience. It is a single data point in a much, much larger picture. You can't take one person's experience and extrapolate that out to a society. Maybe you are unlucky and know lots of racist people. Maybe you live in a racist area. Maybe you engage in behaviors that put you in contact with racist people (for example, being friends with KKK members would significantly increase your odds of coming into contact with racism), maybe you are doing things that are triggering these kinds of responses (like saying you are proud of your white privilege like another person on this site is doing). 

any of those things could change your experience as well as a million other factors. Which is why you can't use your own personal experience, or any other one persons' experience, as the basis for your opinions on societal issues. You have too look at the experiences entire groups of people are having. 
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@ADreamOfLiberty
 if the meticulous standards and novel interpretations of law being used against Trump were applied equally.
lol I wasn't aware that "don't steal classified documents and refuse to return them" and "don't try to illegally overthrow the results of an election" were meticulous standards. It's kind of the absolute bare minimum. 

Biden "stole" and shared classified documents just as DJT is being accused of doing.
nope. He legally took the classified documents. He legally stored them. He then forgot about them. when he became aware of their presence, he immediately returned them and cooperated will all investations into the matter (the investigation was done by republicans). 

Trump took the documents. Whether he was allowed is a little bit of a grey area, but that's not what he's charged with anyway. The national archive spent a year and half telling trump he had documents he wasn't allowed to have and asking him to give them back. He refused. He lied, saying he didn't have them. Then he gave some back, said that was all of them when he was still hiding a bunch more. He refused to co-operate with investigations. He ultimately had to have his home raided by the FBI to get the documents back. He ordered employees to destroy evidence of his crimes to hide what he had done (he ordered security footage destroyed to hide the fact he was hiding the documents). Comparing the two things is laughably weak. 

These facts cannot be evaded. It isn't necessary to prove unequal application of the law, but the fact that they could not find a crime or a liability for which Biden isn't just as 'guilty' is the utmost pinnacle of pathetic desperation.
a republican investigated and found that biden didn't break the law. I described why above. Actually read about what trump did for the year and a half between him leaving office and the FBI raid. It's really easy to see all the differences between what biden did and what trump did. 
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@TheUnderdog
I took the SAT and got a 690 on it for the math section (98th percentile).  I got many privileges based on that (and I believe my math smartness is largely genetic as my Dad taught it for 20 years or so).  I am proud of that privilege.  Does it make me an asshole?  No.
that isn't white privilege. It has nothing to do with being white at all. And there is certainly a genetic component to intelligence sure. But that is not why you do well in math. You do well because your father knew the subject material. He likely helped you study. Or, that you studied harder in that subject knowing he would be critical if you did poorly. That has nothing to do with your "heritage" or genetics.

Being proud of your privilege doesn't make you an asshole.
being proud of white privilege does. In your example, you being good at math didn't make anyone else worse off. You getting a good score doesn't give them a bad score. But you getting picked for a job because of the color of your skin does make them worse off. Being proud of that makes you an asshole. 
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@TheUnderdog
The cheapest way to do the death penalty is cheaper than the cheapest way to do life imprisonment.
lol the cheapest way to do the death penalty is just to strangle anyone you suspect committed a crime. that's cheaper than literally any other option. That doesn't mean it is a good or even possible option. 

They both require a trial, and I would be fine with putting the convicted murderer in an electric chair in the courtroom and turning it on if guilty; it's a quick execution that is cheap.
this would be wildly unconstitutional. But right wing people don't actually care about the constitution, so that doesn't surprise me. 

I looked up the stat you referenced, and I think it's bullshit.
what stat? That isn't more expensive to execute people? It is an established fact. I don't understand what you are questioning. The fact that you had to look it up but immediately dismissed it because it contradicts your point shows me you don't actually know anything about the topic, your argument is purely emotional. 
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@TheUnderdog
so your post is that being a complete asshole upsets people? 
Is it being an asshole or is it just the pro Black position taken to it's logical conclusion?
you are proud of your privilege. IE you are proud that you are treated better than other people. Yes, that is being an asshole. 
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@FishChaser
There are tons of black people who hate white people while also thinking that it is impossible for blacks to be racist because their definition only includes systemic racism and they delude themselves into thinking they are so oppressed as an excuse to act like entitled SJW douche bags.
uh huh. there are racist black people. I don't know how you think that supports your point. 

No, affirmative action and the inclusivity policy of most companies make it so that they are more likely to think about increasing the hiring of every group other than white/straight/cis/male.
lol, no. It makes it more likely they hire a few token people from minorities. But look at powerful positions at most companies and you will find they are overwhelmingly white and male. 

How do you know?
statistics, research studies. 

My experience is that blacks are currently more likely to hate whites than whites are to hate blacks.
and that means exactly nothing. That is one person's biased opinion. If you want to actually look at the topic, you need peer reviewed research. 

Everyone is more likely to treat people who look like them better. 
yes. we call that racism. That is my point. White people get treated better at all levels of society. Is that an admission that you are wrong?

All I see is blacks who are angry at me 
based on the arguments you are making, the smart money would be on that you said something racist. 

and women who think I'm subhuman because I'm not attractive and normal enough.
You being unattractive and unlikeable doesn't really have anything to do with this subject. But it does shed some light on why you believe these things and play victim.

I am literally dehumanized on a regular basis.
I can't really comment on your personal experience. I don't know anything about you. But even if I did, one person's experience is not really relevant to a discussion on societal racism. Maybe you just live in a bad area. Maybe you're a jerk and people don't like you and you choose to interpret that at racism. I couldn't really say.

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@ADreamOfLiberty
In the real question Biden is the one stopping Trump.
the question is badly written.
I'll take that a concession.
what concession? You interpret the question to mean one thing, when it can very easily be interpreted to mean something else. The fact the pollster wrote it this way (as well as the fact that he is a hack right wing pollster) shows it was designed to give people like you a talking point based on nothing. If you ask questions like this, the results are useless. 
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@ADreamOfLiberty
In the real question Biden is the one stopping Trump.
the question is badly written. Probably intentionally so. He's a republican pollster that has been hired by trump in the past. I'm not sure if he's working for him now. By starting the question with "if he is convicted" skews the question. Because if he is convicted, of course he should go to prison. If they wanted to accurately gage whether people believed jo biden was behind the charges or whatever, they should have just asked that. They wrote it this way on purpose because they were trying to get a specific result. 

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@n8nrgim
you should also consider some things that are not included as "inflation". Housing being the primary example. In 1974, a median priced home cost about 3.7 times the median income. So if you could somehow put 100% of your income into paying for your home, you could pay it off in less than 4 years. Today this about 7.6 times and still climbing. 

Because houses are treated as an investment, this isn't included in inflation statistics. Someone earning 15 dollars an hour probably would never be able to own a home. Maybe somewhere super rural they could. 15 dollars an hour still wouldn't be enough for someone to chase the american dream of owning a home.
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@FishChaser
So your argument is that they want to be treated like white people are, but they don't want white people to be treated that way
no, they want to be treated like white people. Full stop. They aren't saying they want white people to be treated badly. They are saying they want to be treated well. The problem is that how white people are treated is directly related to how they are treated. For example, a white person is more likely to be hired for a job than a black person even if they are equally qualified. If the black person was treated equally, then the white person wouldn't have an advantage in being hired. So by treating black people equally, white people would lose their advantage, and that could been seen as being treated worse. 

so you're basically admitting it's about changing which group is oppressed and which is privileged rather than equality.
no, I am not saying that at all. 

It's true that there is a disproportionate number of whites who are wealthier and shit, but there are also whites who aren't. The privilege is "rich privilege" and not "white privilege".
It seems like you are trying to use specific examples instead of looking at trends. It's like saying that I rode my bicycle without hitting my head, so it must be safe to do so. But in order to actually look at the issue, you have to look at the broader trends. How many people hit their head and get injuries etc. You only want to skim the surface of the issue. If you want to look at real "white privilage" you would look at how black people are much more likely to be charged with a crime than a white person who took the same action. How a black person is much more likely to be sentenced harshly for the same crime. How black people are much more likely to be denied access to a rental property based on their race (trump's company was found guilty of doing this). How white people are much more likely to be hired than a black person with the same skills. I can go on and on. The issue is systemic and found across all levels of society. 

Most people nowadays don't think whites are superior or deserve better treatment
This is fundamentally untrue. And you only have to look at statistics to see it is untrue. People may not consciously decide to treat white people better, but they do. 

The biggest privileged/oppressed dynamic is gender/sex imo rather than race. Women are treated way better than men and just have it way easier in every way.
It's astounding to me than white men can play the victim this hard. They have literally all the benefits. They make more money than all other groups. They have an easier time getting hired than any other group. That have the vast majority of political and financial power. But they love crying about how downtrodden they are. I always find it hilarious. And the funniest part is that the people crying about it the hardest are usually the ones who think they are an "alpha male". 
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