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@coal
I am not going to dive in to deep detail about why I agree/disagree with you but I agree with most of what you posted in #421. Ragnar has contributed about the bare minimum to make his presence known but nothing that has really made him seem invested in the game. I am still down to lynch him by tomorrow night unless someone else hammers first or something changes, but I have a few points in his defense
1) He had the emergency with his girlfriend and is probably busy with modding stuff so he may be offering minimalist responses for that reason
2) Despite being pressured for a while now to give more in depth responses, he still has not. He's also had an incentive to give in to pressure on a number of other things and has stood his ground. That seems towny in that he is not letting himself get bullied in to saying certain things that might take pressure off of him
That is really the only thing I have to add to what you said and I still am scum reading him because I agree that someone who knows who scum is or isn't is going to be more likely to have a hard time articulating non scummy reasons for knowing this.
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@coal
Do you mean 421? I don't see anything in 224 about you making multiple points
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@coal
About to pick up dinner but I will give my input on a Ragnar lynch within the hour
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@Lunatic
ragnar needs 1 more person to be hammered
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@Lunatic
If we lynch me and I flip town what is your next move?
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@Zaradi
If we lynch me and I flip town what is your next move?
If we lynch lunatic and he flips town what is your next move?
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@coal
If we lynch ragnar and he flips town what is your next move?
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@coal
I'm not saying it because I am backed in to a corner, I am saying it because I still win with town even if I am lynched (I think thats how this works?), so I hope that my mislynch would at least vindicate what I have been saying and town doesn't go on to make the mistake of following your/TUF's/zaradi's lead and mislynching ragnar next.
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@coal
I am thinking Ragnar might flip town based on remaining noncommittal on his read of me despite being pressed by TUF. As I said above, he could have taken the focus off him and took the easy way out by agreeing with TUF that I am scummy and possibly avoided a lynch on DP1. Obviously if he flips scum though you are going to take this as me scum buddying with him so I guess I am putting my little bit of remaining credibility on the line here. Either way that is what I think.
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@Zaradi
Is town not allowed to be wrong?
Sure, town is allowed to be wrong. But so far you three have tried to take the lead in this and when you push a mislynch against me I hope other people take the lead instead.
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@coal
I'm not volunteering for anything, I am just saying that by the logic that you, zaradi, and TUF have I should be the first lynch, not Ragnar. Then when that logic turns out to be wrong all I can hope is that the attention turns to one or two of you three and the other five remaining players hold you all accountable.
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According to the logic of YY, Zaradi, and TUF, I should be the lynch for DP1 since I am the safest bet. TUF thinks its either me and zaradi or me and ragnar. YY thinks its me and ragnar. Zaradi thinks its me and TUF. I am on all four of those lists. Just lynch me then if that's what you think.
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If both potential scum teams include me, why not lynch me first? If you think I am definitely scum since you are including me on both scum teams, I am the safest lynch.
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@coal
did not realize that but i won't edit again
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@coal
He thinks its a slip bc bussing is a term that is supposed to refer to scum throwing their scum partner under the bus to avoid detection. I didn't know that when I said it
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@Zaradi
tbh I didn't know that bus was exclusively a term for scum until I googled it like 5 minutes ago, lol
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@coal
I have nothing more to say at this moment but it seems like activity peaks so far late at night and unless something comes up I'll be on tn so I'll have more to say
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@coal
idk, is there a way to check likes on your notifications?
and I am worried about looking scummy bc I don't want to be mislynched, pretty straightforward
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I'd still like to see a full read list from him with explanations before letting him off the hook completely, at least.
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As of now I am still voting Ragnar tomorrow night but I do think he has made a bit of a case for himself at least in my eyes. Seems like if he was mafia his best bet at self preservation right now would be to attack me with TUF but instead he's remained non committal about if I am scum or not. Obviously he could realize that himself which is why he isn't doing it but right now it looks like he's almost out of options to convince people that he is town so that would be a potential way out for him. Obviously this post is only going to fire TUF up more because he will think I am scum buddying with Ragnar but w/e
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@Danielle
Ragnar could both be having an IRL emergency and be scum. I'm willing to wait til tomorrow (Thursday) to vtl him. Hearing more from Sui and Oro might be good too (hopefully Airmax as well). It'd be interesting to see how they respond to all this. But ideally we don't have to wait until Friday to end the day phase.
Agreed. Tomorrow night by like 11:30PM I'm willing to VTL Ragnar assuming no changing circumstances between then and now.
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@coal
good, I am just making sure we are on the same page. That's fine then I agree. And with Dani agreeing to lynch Ragnar DP1 we have the 5 votes to do it tomorrow night.
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@coal
Perhaps, but you scum read Ragnar at this point, correct? I agree we should not lynch until Max says something which he has heretofore failed to do, but if you are unwilling to lynch him and he flips scum you have to understand why I am coming after you next, right?
I am willing to lynch him by tomorrow night if he doesn't give more complete reads that make him seem less scummy. I would rather not lynch him today/tonight because A. He did say he was having an irl emergency and assuming he's not a bad person who would lie about that he deserves a little slack B. There's no reason to prematurely end DP1
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Another reason to wait until tomorrow night to lynch Ragnar is he did say he was having an emergency with his girlfriend. I'm assuming he's not a bad person who is lying about that just to win an online mafia game so we should give him at least a little leeway, at least until tomorrow night tbh.
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@coal
Fair, I think 3 people is a good enough wagon for now with others agreeing to jump on tomorrow night if he doesn't speak up. 4 seems too close for comfort because someone could end the day phase early then with a 5th vote, so I'm withholding my vote for now with an assurance that I'll vote that way tomorrow night absent changing circumstances.
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I'm fine with a Ragnar lynch tomorrow night if nothing else happens between now and then
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I think there is still plenty we could figure out tonight and tomorrow morning/afternoon by waiting to lynch. Obviously we shouldn't put it off until the last minute but like tmrw night or friday morning?
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@coal
We are not lynching Sui today.VTL Ragnar
Your vote brings it up to 3 right?
Also what about pressuring airmax? We have 2 days and 4 hours still. Are we just letting him off the hook this DP?
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@coal
The roles and their distribution were randomized exactly 1 time.
think they are
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@Lunatic
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on post #32 I was the first person to town read TUF, since he repeatedly claims that I was just following the crowd by town reading him at first (I was not, I was the first person to town read him)
YYW asked people for SOP claims on the first page and he objected to it
as for the rest of the stuff TUF has said, i don't really have a response ill just let people figure out for themselves, lol
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As an aside, this is why I prefer live mafia. It tends to be easier to ask people to commit a few hours on a weekend than it is to ask them to commit time every day, multiple times a day, even though its in smaller increments.
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@Danielle
@TUF, the reason some people say they will type more later and not just wait is because inactivity is read as a scum tell. Objectivity called me out for being online and not posting the night the game started (I debated making a post saying I would read the following day, and in hindsight, I guess I should have). I would probs think the same about my sus inactivity if I were Objectivity which is a slight town point for him.
this tbh
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Complete list of reads with explanation:
Lunatic- Scum read
He has not really done much to generate discussion so far outside of trying to bus me in the last page after he has faced intense pressure. If anything, all he has done is criticize others methods to generate discussion (coal trying to get people to role claim, zaradi, etc.). He objects to the method of VTLing someone to pressure them in to producing content, except when he did it to Dani 30-40 minutes in to the game starting on the first page. After Dani suggests pressuring him or Ragnar, he doesn't seem to like the idea of pressuring people with a VTL without a thorough explanation, which once again, he did not provide when he pressured Dani. The vast majority of his efforts so far seem less aimed at producing content than frustrating the efforts of the primary people who have been trying to produce content (coal/zaradi). I don't really remember TUF's play style though I have played live with him a few times, but he seems to generate a lot of infighting. Not really pro town.
Ragnar- Slight scum read
Mostly flied under the radar yesterday with no meaningful contribution. Seemed to post just enough to be active but not enough to say anything that would generate suspicion or contribute substantially to the game.
Danielle- Neutral for now
Think I've explained this enough above. Her initial actions were anti town (inactivity and proposing a DP1 no lynch) but there is an innocent explanation for both that I accept for the time being.
Sui- Town. He hasn't really offered any strong takes yet but seems interested in collecting information that will be useful later on as well as trying to read meaning in to other people's post to figure out if they are scum or not. He's posted his reads twice but hasn't offered any sort of explanation for them as far as I can see, or if he has its only been a few words. More detailed reads would be nice
coal- Town. He is probably the person I've played mafia with the most in here and his actions seem consistent with his town meta. I think he is equally active when he is town and scum, but rather than driving the narrative when he is scum, he tries to derail it if it would lead somewhere useful. Haven't really seen him do that yet. I don't like that he said he was considering not checking his role PM but I know he's done it in other games where he is town so I suppose it gets a pass.
Zaradi- Town. The other aggressive/active person so far. I agree with TUF that his initial reasoning for scum reading him was sketchy, but I think what TUF has done to defend himself since has been more revealing than anything else, and it seems like based on Zaradi's other behavior, this was likely his intent anyways (to get TUF talking more to get a better read on him), so I don't think he is trying to pressure TUF for sketchy reasons. He pressured TUF and what has been revealed is fairly illuminating so far
Airmax- Neutral. Not really scum reading or town reading him due to inactivity but I'd still gladly lynch him unless we have a strong scum read by tomorrow night or friday morning, just because inactivity is anti town
oromagi- Town. Based on his interactions so far I'd say town, but he kind of flew under the radar a lot of yesterday. Random voting/VTLing based on activity early on drew some suspicion towards him but it seemed like an earnest mistake. Hopefully he gives a list of reads with explanations soon.
In my defense:
1) I have never played forum mafia so what YY has said about certain mistakes being made due to inexperience is correct
2) I have repeated multiple times why up until now I did not give complete reads with an explanation (was busy last night and this morning)
3) I haven't given very bold accusations yet (outside of the Dani push after people had already accepted her explanation) but neither has oromagi or sui but TUF is not scum reading them yet. Seems like a defensive move but I am not going to go so far as to say that his accusation is total deflection, because there were valid reasons to pressure me up to this point since I was inactive last night.
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@Lunatic
I'm okay with lynching people who may not be scum but have down anti town things on DP1. I have nothing else to say until later except that I've repeated over and over that I don't have time to type out multiple paragraphs now but will have better and more complete reasoning later on. You're not pressuring me to do anything I wasn't already going to do in a few hours lol
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@Lunatic
Zaradi's whole case is just bad. Part of me still think he was backed into a corner yesterday and forced himself to contrive that piece of poop case, but it could be authentic. I don't think he has a stolid scum read outside of that though, and I am fairly suspicious of him, but trying to be open minded. I was inquisitive of Dani yesterday too, but I've dropped that because she pointed out she didn't realize there were no character claims. I think your quick switch of reads without much of your own thoughts injected is telling though. I am interested what specifically made you flip flop your reads, or did you just see two large blocks of text that mentioned "Lunatic" often and be like "Oh, looks like the crowds changing their minds, I better too so I don't look too different" Lol.
I've said like 3 times that I haven't had time to give a full explanation yet bc I was busy last night and am a bit busy today until the afternoon. Also I've said that I have an alternate theory concerning YY and Zaradi being scum buddies which is another example of me not being agreeable since no one has mentioned that. What do you think of that theory?
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@Lunatic
Almost half the game so far has played out since your last read, any updates besides me?
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@Lunatic
My focus is not really on you because I think other people are applying sufficient pressure, its on airmax and dani. I still would like for you to give a full list of reads though
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@Lunatic
I have been pressuring Dani despite everyone else accepting her explanation for inactivity and letting her kind of fly under the radar, so not really agreeable there. I town read you like 10 pages back but a lot has played out since then. You are pressuring me, fine, what are your other reads besides me?
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@Danielle
So you agree now that we should lynch DP1?
If we are going based on scum reads you are #4 so solidly in the middle for me. I only put you as #3 on my lynch list because I agree with you and YY that TUF is worth keeping around for the time being.
The reason I am slightly scum reading you is because you gave a bad solution to a problem you helped create early on (No lynching DP1 due to a lack of solid reads, you contributed to the problem via inactivity, then gave a solution that is a bad one) which is at minimum anti town. But you are still only #4 as far as my scum reads because it could have just been an honest mistake and you have been active ever since.
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@coal
You scum read TUF based on 289, but only "slight scum" read on Danielle, and yet Danielle is in your top 3 candidates for lynching but not TUF?Explain. Why are you not willing to VTL TUF? Why are you more sure TUF is scum than Danielle, but TUF is not in your top 3 while Danielle is?Why isn't Ragnar or TUF your No. 1 lynch candidate?Why aren't you VTLing?
TUF is not in my top 3 candidates for lynching because I agree with you and Dani that he is worth keeping around at least for DP1. If we were lynching based solely on scum reads he would be my #1 and Dani would be bumped down to #4.
Airmax is my no. 1 lynch candidate because of his inactivity.
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My top 3 candidates for DP1 lynch right now would be:
1) Airmax
2) Ragnar
3) Danielle
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@coal
My unfiltered thoughts without explanation right now are:
Airmax- Uncertain but anti town bc of inactivity so I'd be down to lynch him anyways
Sui- Town
You (Coal)- Town
Zaradi- Town
(But your original pressure on him in the first few pages seemed a bit contrived and you guys have been agreeing/amplifying each other ever since so a bit sus)
(But your original pressure on him in the first few pages seemed a bit contrived and you guys have been agreeing/amplifying each other ever since so a bit sus)
Danielle- Slight scum read. Inactive, then proposes no lynch which is a firmly anti town move in a classic 7:2 setup. But I would lynch others over her right now
TUF- Scum
Ragnar- Slight scum read
oromagi- Town
Will give explanation later. Obviously if something happens between now and when I explain my reads may change, and they may change anyways as I think about what has happened. These are just my initial gut responses
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As I'm thinking about this more, since even a random lynch is more pro town than a no lynch DP1, if there are no strong scum reads on anyone, I say we lynch airmax by tomorrow night or friday morning simply for inactivity, if he is not more active soon.
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A few things before I give more detailed reads just bc I don't have the time to until a bit later:
@Airmax- If you cannot carve out time by like Friday morning/Late Thursday night to give detailed reads, I think we should lynch you simply for being anti town b/c of inactivity. Do you have any good reason why we shouldn't?
@Danielle- You entertained for a no lynch on DP1 due to a lack of solid reads, but your own inactivity until recently contributed to that. Also, due to having an odd amount of players, a no lynch on DP1 would not buy us any more time.
To make it clear, I am against a no lynch DP1:
Assuming a regular setup with 7 town 2 scum:
"Day 2: 6 town, 2 scum. (25% chance of hitting scum)
Day 3: 4 town, 2 scum. (33% chance of hitting scum)
Now let's say town lynch D1:
D2: 5 town, 2 scum. (28.5% chance of hitting scum)
Day 3: 3 town, 2 scum. (40% chance of hitting scum)"
No lynching DP1 is definitely anti town, even random lynching gives town a better chance of hitting scum in our current setup.
@Lunatic- You haven't given a full list of reads in a while because you've been kind of under attack, what are your current reads? I want to give you the benefit of a doubt but you have to give us something
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I will say (with further explanation sometime in the next few hours) that I agree with the scum reads on ragnar and lunatic right now. An alternative theory I have is that Zaradi and Coal/YYW are scum buddies though. I know they have a friendly relationship prior to this game which might explain why they seem to be agreeing with and amplifying each other so much, but could also be a scum tell on both of their parts. I'll develop this theory more later though along with other reads. Just wanted to give my initial thoughts after reading
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A lot of interesting things went down last night. I just skimmed everything from yesterday, I was hanging out with friends after like 8PM which is why I didn't respond. I'll just go through and give my reads and the reasoning behind them within a couple hours rather than respond to everything I've been asked to or think I should separately. Will make it pretty detailed/comprehensive to make up for my inactivity last night.
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@sui_generis
I don't think Objectivity & Ragnar would be both scum AND both misread coal's post wherein he specifically admitted that he was only TEMPTED to read his role pm. I don't see cooperating on such a useless lie would benefit scum, and I don't see BOTH players misreading so carelessly as scum, though that's more on the presumption of skill than personal familiarity.Ragnar seems more genuine in his oblivion, and thus more town, between the two.
its a pretty easy mistake to make but w/e bro
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I would not mind voting Dani if she logs on one more time without posting, if only because inactivity is anti town anyways. Hopefully she does tho
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