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@TheUnderdog
Who else was it named after? I thought it was named after Ghengis Khan.
A mere search on a search engine would have cured you of the ignorance you had before saying that, just as it would cure you of your ignorance of what a psychopath Columbus was. When it's that easy to solve ignorance, only yourself is to blame.
It is named after Salman Khan, the founder of it.
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@ebuc
Based on what you have described, I think you are referring to the Roman Empire, not to Spanish colonialism.
This is why I am curious what documentary you watched.
Ironically, the Italians which were decendants of those that ran said Roman Empire were ruthless alongside the Spanish, Columbus was Italian.
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@BigPimpDaddy
Not really, it would become us both semantically battling appealing to the authority of our dictionaries. I didn't say the theory of Marx is inherently authoritarian, I said there's no way to enforce it without being authoritarian and so far this has consistently been proven correct.
I am certain I'd win though, because all dictionaries define Communism as the more brutal, tyrannical variant of what Socialism is however you'd of course argue that this is due to the dictionaries needing to abide by definitions provided post cold-war.
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I'm left-wing but not stupid or arrogant enough to think that I know for certain that the elite string-pullers didn't forge/alter ballot results.
What you're missing here is of course the counters aren't 'in on it' if it was staged/faked. Instead, they are reading mail-in ballots some of which are forged and replaced the real mail (or replaced what would be sent in by a non-voter).
Since it is ultimately confidential, there's no way to back-check whether anyone who didn't vote actually has a vote sent (this is extremely top secret and violates the sanctity of confidential election results) so ultimately if it was faked, we'd never ever know if it was done correctly and the mail-in ballot mechanism taken full advantage of by those faking it.
I do actually think Biden won but I also can see just how viable it would be for the richest and most powerful to pull off something like this, they'd just need to corrupt a select few officials in a select few states to turn it.
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@BigPimpDaddy
I already have. You've made a ton of oneliners with cheap quips/comebacks.
There is no such thing as a stateless, classless society because that is not a society. You can't imprison someone for wrongdoing if no cop/enforcer class and prisoner class exist on the side of 'civilian'. Then, you can't have the cops/enforcers without regulation unless you want them to inevitably abuse their power, so you need a government to discipline them and hold each accountable to the law.
You then need a military to protect, medics to stop the population rapidly dying to disease and injuries that occur in every nation (and need to ensure there are enough of each profession by even educating enough to fill the role for starters) and so much more to consider.
Now, you need a 'researcher' class. This type of worker is the worst-off in communism/socialism short of the CEO business tycoon class because the researcher can't get any flexibility or leniency nor use the profits of their research to further it nor a similar cause. This means they need to apply through rigid, legally decided criteria and if they don't tick the boxes for safe enough of a research avenue for the national state budget to be spent on, they're discarded. It's why the US annihilated the USSR in their 'race' and why China never came close until it embraced many elements of Capitalism.
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@Dr.Franklin
I've said more than enough already.
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@BigPimpDaddy
Despite the fact that there have been plenty of anarcho communist, socialist, marxist movements but turn intototalitarian regimes because of capitalist interventions and wars.
The 'because' is a lie.
They turn into that all on their own each and every time. You are the one looking at extreme cases to find an excuse whereas those who dislike Communism don't look to the extreme cases, they notice a trend very consistent in a system that defies all human motivation to work and do well in life.
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@sadolite
I didn't calculate 65%, never said anything remotely to it.
Reagan and Trump came the closest at about 65%.
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@ebuc
I think you are referring to long ago in the Roman Empire, there was a way for very, very few 'slaves' (it meant something different back then) could 'earn' their freedom with a slave currency known as peculium.
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@ebuc
Can you name the documentary please? I'd like to investigate both the source's motives and specific claims if I can get hold of them.
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@ebuc
That is what the documentary stated. The value is whatever the Spaniards said it was. They were in control of all that involved the slaves so they can decide any value they choose to do. If you were the head honcho Spaniard in FL or Spain etc, you get to figure out that value.This is not rocket science RM. Even you could arrive at a value for slave freedom.
Slaves are not paid. They earn 0 per hour.
It is a disgusting scheme to say there's a price for freedom that they can earn when they can't earn it.
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@TheUnderdog
Nobody is suggesting renaming KhanAcademy, even though Khan was a genocidal maniac.
Do you think Khan Academy is named after Genghis Khan?
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@949havoc
Yes, I can choose to eat corn flakes in milk, even though I don't like it. So where is determinism in that?
Can you make yourself like it?
Can you alter the tendency you have to eat it in spite of that?
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@BigPimpDaddy
pol pot was absolutely a communist. That's not an opinion, it's a fact.
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@ebuc
ex a slave could buy their freedom,
how can a slave buy their freedom? Do you know how much a slave is paid per hour?
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@Safalcon7
i find the melodrama cringe so not really, no
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@oromagi
When has any government ever tried honestly tried to make everybody share everything? The answer is never.
Easy scapegoat. Pol Pot's Cambodia was perhaps the most severely fervent example of genuinely seeking this outcome (he really believed in the cause). The problem is that we are just not wired that way, you can't terrorise people into sharing everything for a collective (not in the long-term unless you have a complete North-Korea-like chokehold on them) and by god did he try to do just that.
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@BigPimpDaddy
I my eyes The act of a government making people share everything is evil.
I agree with you. It should make them share some things, not everything.
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@secularmerlin
You ignored a huge portion of my post by the way, you barely replied to a single sentence in it.
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@secularmerlin
The biggest potential problem with any political system is that there will be people involved and people exploit each other kind of a lot. Communism is a theoretical goal and so far as I know never achieved. You are correct that in every instance where a society called itself socialist or communist a stateless society was never achieved and in some cases very real totalitarianism infiltrated the system.
very weird way to dodge my point entirely,
You're one of the first socialists I've met who actually says communism is the goal... Communism is the totalitarian form with the tyranny attached but clearly you are working on different lexical scaling so I am assuming for you Communism is 'pure socialism' whatever that may be.
I also find it odd that you say 'infiltrate' because this excuse really is where I side with the right-wing entirely in terms of noticing it as complete left-wing bullcrap excuse.
Lenin was a prick even before Stalin was a bigger prick, nothing was inflitrated at all, it was Lenin that exiled Trotsky, not just Stalin. Nothing about Stalin was 'infiltrating' Lenin anyway, Lenin knew what kind of guy Stalin was, every godfather likes that ruthless enforcer type but what was unique was that Lenin happened to die of a disease exactly at a prime time for Stalin to take over (this happens too in other regimes, not just Socialist ones) the idea of a sidekick usurping the former leader isn't always done via backstabbing, it can be genuine especially when disease onset causes it. Lenin was a gangster from start to end, Stalin was just a more blatant one.
As for Mao, nothing was infiltrated, Pol Pot? Pol Pot was seen as a hero, he took over entirely democratically as an extremely well-liked Populist candidate, then he ruined his nation with severe zeal to achieve the equality and 'everyone's a worker' outcome that Socialism seeks.
You can keep saying it was hijacked but where? Cuba wasn't a hijack, the only aspect of it that had backstabbing was Che Guevara's crew were ditched later on so that Castro could lead Cuba without US interfering too much. Castro was a genuine Socialist, Guevara was too.
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@dfss9788
Those left behind are generally those who weren't good enough to make it on their own. This is brain drain.
What exactly does this mean? You think some spoilt brat caucasian is somehow good enough to make it on their own under Columbus' regime if they were a native? This has nothing to do with the smart defeating the dumb and everything to do with dehumanising, sociopathic patriarchy where one side merely had the guns.
Imagine your mother or wife undergoing this:
Bergreen quotes Michele de Cuneo, who participated in Columbus's second expedition to the Americas (page 143):While I was in the boat, I captured a very beautiful woman, whom the Lord Admiral [Columbus] gave to me. When I had taken her to my cabin she was naked — as was their custom. I was filled with a desire to take my pleasure with her and attempted to satisfy my desire. She was unwilling, and so treated me with her nails that I wished I had never begun. I then took a piece of rope and whipped her soundly, and she let forth such incredible screams that you would not have believed your ears. Eventually we came to such terms, I assure you, that you would have thought she had been brought up in a school for whores.
Imagine hearing her screams, watching it happen. Tell me then, if you'd admire him and his men.
I wonder, when the invaders would refer to her as a whore instead of a victim and those that stood up for her would be abused themselves by his men with menacing smiles, would you begin to understand why some may loathe the man?
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@dfss9788
As to the indigenous in the United States, they have all the same rights as regular Americans
You mean the few descendants of the tiny minority that survived the purge?
We're talking about what happened to the original ancestors and the abuse they underwent. That guy, Columbus, is the one you celebrate on that day.
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@ebuc
yeah how were the spanish colonists more humane than the british colonists?
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@secularmerlin
As much of a troll as he is (I am still pretty sure the guy is actually left-wing) I actually think he has the upper hand here.
Do you think it's a coincidence that virtually every single attempt at Socialism involved violence and ruthlessness? Even the 'peaceful' Vietnam was such but it was the type of country that didn't keep official records so not much is known about how it became Socialist except that Mao's China influenced it.
As soon as it becomes ugly, it's branded 'Communism' (by both you and very right-wing Capitalists) and then your crew say 'that's fake Socialism'. The problem isn't that you're lying, it's that you're confused. Left-Wing politics only works if there's still the healthy meritocratic element of Capitalism in the society while safety nets are there for the poor.
Capitalism without restrictions is ugly and prone to nepotism and corruption but Socialism, even with restrictions, is simply counter-human. We just do not work that way, our brains by and large are wired to want to work to gain capital that we are free to invest as we see fit, we aren't wired to gain any satisfaction from working in a job we're told to work relentlessly for as many hours as we can put in to give to those who most blatantly 'need' it.
'from those who are able to those who need it' is a good theory, ant colonies work by it and most elephant groups do too but ultimately who rules? There's a reason that socialistic creatures don't flourish even in the food chain, let alone amongst humans. The species that thrive are those who have fundamentally understood that competition is a part of progress and that no matter how benevolent you try to design society, there needs to be an element of 'losers' and 'winners' for anyone to 'win' and push for more 'winning' at all.
I don't just mean greed for money's sake alone, think about it for a second. Who is more motivated to do good science? One who knows the money they raise with said research can lead to more research and organisations to help young women get involved in STEM and generally increase motivation towards STEM field and not have it seen as 'nerdy' etc... or someone who knows all their work will barely get their name mentioned because 'everyone on the team is just as important' and the research will be owned by the government to do as it sees fit as well as 100% of the profits beyond the bare minimum that scientist needs to survive?
If you want 'true socialism' as in without any fiat money, that's also an issue. Where's the fun of having no rewards to use to further your cause or legacy? We aren't wired to be workhorses, we are quite literally a different species to them. Before you discuss animal rights, I don't mean abusing horses but I do note that horses genuinely enjoy doing as they are told and working relentlessly to impress their human companion (the human owner is similar to what a government is to its socialist populace).
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@949havoc
In front of you is a bowl of cornflakes, with excessive milk added to it, it's already 'soggy'.
In front of you, just beside it is a bowl of a cereal you dislike less with just the right amount of milk.
I would like you, of your own free will, to stare at, smell and continually notice the cereal you dislike less while using your free will to eat the corn flakes.
You know that inevitable feeling of dissatisfaction? That's the part that isn't free will. That's the part even those that advocate for it can't deny.
What you are saying is you can choose to eat it despite disliking it, which is the deeper debate at hand (whether or not that's actually a choice) but your actual dislike for corn flakes is absolutely involuntary, if you don't realise that then I hope imagining my example highlights that to you.
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@Vader
I never got why Columbus was so praised. He didn't even land in America
Exactly. He came across the Caribbean Islands and was certain that was some extension of India, so he then begged a pair of brothers to lend him their ships and to lead the way onwards, so they did and together they landed in what is now the US (which he was convinced was mainland India with the Caribbean being islands close to it) and proceeded to reign over everyone with such lack of mercy I cannot fathom it even.
They would so openly rape and abuse people that there may literally have never been as 'open and honest' of a psychopathic ruling in the entire history of our species. The complete lack of shame and openness of the abuse was unique to his tyranny, the rest has probably been done elsewhere previously but his style of rule was so openly barbaric and merciless, there has essentially never been anything like it in terms of that. Even Genghis Khan's men had some level of pseudo-decency.
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@ebuc
where is your evidence of this 'humaneness'? Please provide it before spouting nonsense.
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The worst that the British Colonialism of India had to offer was better than the best that Columbus' Colonialism had for the natives of anywhere he and his crew of sociopaths set foot.
I even include the killing events here in India which were very rare there, they were common as hell in Columbus' style of colonising. He drove entire generations of natives (around 50,000) to suicide and laughed while it happened. Sick fuck.
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@secularmerlin
One thing that always perplexes me about Socialists is why they restrict it to humans if it isn't about wealth and productivity.
Why doesn't a hamster deserve its right to life and protection? Why only a human?
Some dogs, horses, cats etc actually are more useful to the emotional wellbeing of their owners than some poor people are to any humans at all, yet the species of the latter entitles them to some benefits and welfare, why? Their species has 'privileged status' in Socialist agenda.
I know why a Capitalist would help humans, it's because overall it's a better bet on who will end up more productive for the nation's economy but why a Socialist would is because Socialism is a lie, you can't deny the Capitalist basis for ranking.
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@TheUnderdog
Ah, there goes RM. Respecting minorities until one minority decides to celebrate Columbus day, then he turns on him.@RMNot every minority thinks the same. Grow up!
What are you even talking about?
Do you realise everything he did to the Caribbeans and Native Americans are what he intended to do to the Indians? This is 100% applicable.
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Bergreen explains, page 204:The Indians destroyed their stores of bread so that neither they nor the invaders would be able to eat it. They plunged off cliffs, they poisoned themselves with roots, and they starved themselves to death. Oppressed by the impossible requirement to deliver tributes of gold, the Indians were no longer able to tend their fields, or care for their sick, children, and elderly. They had given up and committed mass suicide to avoid being killed or captured by Christians, and to avoid sharing their land with them, their fields, groves, beaches, forests, and women: the future of their people.
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After an attack by more than 2,000 Indians, Columbus had an underling, Alonso de Ojeda, bring him three Indian leaders, whom Columbus then ordered publicly beheaded. Ojeda also ordered his men to grab another Indian, bring him to the middle of his village, and "'cut off his ears' in retribution for the Indians' failing to be helpful to the Spaniards when fording a stream." (Bergreen, 170-171)
Columbus kidnapped and enslaved more than a thousand people on Hispaniola
According to Cuneo, Columbus ordered 1,500 men and women seized, letting 400 go and condemning 500 to be sent to Spain, and another 600 to be enslaved by Spanish men remaining on the island. About 200 of the 500 sent to Spain died on the voyage, and were thrown by the Spanish into the Atlantic. (Bergreen, 196-197)
same source
read for the rest
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@triangle.128k
before embarassing yourself, at least try to give a disinformation source to back your false statements up.
Bergreen quotes Michele de Cuneo, who participated in Columbus's second expedition to the Americas (page 143):While I was in the boat, I captured a very beautiful woman, whom the Lord Admiral [Columbus] gave to me. When I had taken her to my cabin she was naked — as was their custom. I was filled with a desire to take my pleasure with her and attempted to satisfy my desire. She was unwilling, and so treated me with her nails that I wished I had never begun. I then took a piece of rope and whipped her soundly, and she let forth such incredible screams that you would not have believed your ears. Eventually we came to such terms, I assure you, that you would have thought she had been brought up in a school for whores.
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@oromagi
Christopher Columbus stole credit for discovering America from two Spanish brothers who actually made the voyage possible, a new book has claimed.In a book called 'The Forgotten Brothers', author Gary Knight has accused Columbus of stealing the credit from the Pinzon brothers, who not only skippered the sister ships on the expedition, but also saved the entire mission."In the United States we learned about Columbus making the first voyage to America. That is total bunk and I wanted to set the record straight," Knight told 'The Telegraph'.Knight, a former aide in the US Congress, studied scores of accounts of the story of the Columbus voyage, some dating back to the late 19th century.He said the evidence that Columbus stole the glory is compelling.The voyage, he said, would never have happened but for Vincente and Martin Pinzon providing ships after Columbus's original fleet was destroyed by the people of Palos in Andalucia."He approached the Pinzon brothers cap in hand and asked them to help him out and they cut a deal. Columbus may have been a brilliant navigator and politician but he was not a sea captain," Knight said."He had never had skippered a ship in his entire life," he said.The Pinzon brothers, on the other hand, were veteran mariners who had little difficulty in recruiting crew to take part in what was potentially a dangerous voyage.
Pinzons also helped Columbus get back to Europe, even though he cowered in his cabin for much of the voyage, the book claimed.
Eventually Columbus and the brothers fell out, becoming rivals.
Columbus's version of the voyage persisted because he wrote an account.
"He was the only person to keep a journal and that is why Columbus is remembered," Knight said.
Lmao, what do you mean by 'leading the fleet'? He never did.
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@oromagi
One thing though, you're not 'not judging him' you're just sympathising with him and idolising him instead of (what you see as) demonising him. Your positive judgement is not lack of judgement. Lack of judgement would lead you to not give a shit about this thread.
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@oromagi
Try being the Captain of that fucking ship when the food went bad.
He probably would have encouraged them to eat each other for all I fucking know. The guy had no morals that I can notice. Unfortunately, he never led the ships so we don't know how he'd lead there.
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I had a nihilistic phase as a teen. So, if that's a lesson, I unlearned it instead of never considering it.
This whole 'you can't judge anyone' ethos is all good and fun until you come face to face with actual rape, actual human trafficking, actual horror.
You need only to see some documentaries to begin to grasp the depth of what you're saying is okay. Fuck off telling me I'm not 'learning' that I can't judge what you literally admit is wrongdoing.
You can't call it wrongdoing if you aren't judging it as wrong. It's that simple. The only way to say it's okay is to then judge beyond that judgement but believe me what columbus did was not okay, the guy was the epitome of psychopathy meeting sociopathy. I genuinely hate him, don't need to meet him or know his 'poor boy' story. He's a scumbag whether he had a rough childhood or not.
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@oromagi
world of difference between acknowledging wrongdoing and claiming the right the judge.
no there isn't, or else you couldn't call it wrongdoing.
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@TheUnderdog
I can see where you're coming from with you on this because of him killing many and clearly being hellbent on further rampage.
Death penalty should be saved for severely dangerous and/or insane criminals who are quite literally beyond forgiveness and cure.
There is nothing he can really do to make up for this and there is not even one iota of sign he will reform. Regardless, I do also agree with Orogami that in general we need to improve the earlier spotting and encouragement for seeking mental healthcare in these individuals. How to go about doing that without seeming to unfairly label and stigmatise 'weirdness' will take a lot of progressive alterations in how we approach what being 'mentally deviated' is. Currently if you have cancer or let's say you broke your leg, you can tell everyone without shame but if you have severe schizophrenia or worse genuine sociopathy, you are not allowed to admit it without a lot of funny looks at you and potentially severe bullying (actually being a sociopath is so stigmatised people would say you deserved what happens to you). We've finally begun to stop the stigma attached to depression and somewhat are getting there with severe/chronic anxiety but there's more than those two. Autism is also beginning to lose its stigma, not completely though.
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@MarkWebberFan
Nothing against the site or you tho
Well I have something against you, specifically for saying this:
I doubt America has angel-like immigrants while Singapore has devil-like immigrants. They're all the same; give them a chance and they can be thieves just like my social circle was.
combined with other things you have said in your posts on the site, you seem to be an extremely toxic person I want nothing to do with. I am happy to have not interacted too much with you so far and intend to avoid you from now on.
You will get away with what you said because you stuck to the 'immigrant' narrative but this is barely short of direct racism, even within the same race. Your jingoism is so severe that you fail to understand that one day you yourself may be an immigrant. Just because their 'native land' isn't the one they currently reside in doesn't mean they are all just thieves waiting to unleash.
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@oromagi
To be clear, you are saying that human trafficking, brutal bullying and degradation, genocide and profiting from slave labour (in the Caribbean that already began during his era, he inspired the concept of slavery amongst the invaders) are things you're fine with.
He also took a much larger degree of credit for the discoveries than he deserved. He accidentally came ashore to the Caribbean islands which he was sure was part of India and later to the shore that he thought was India 'for real' (the US).
Before you say that I'm twisting your words here, if something is only wrong in 'modern eyes' it means you think at some point that was completely fine to be doing. Do I understand you correctly?
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@whiteflame
It's an adspammer testing boundaries, I am not sure how to spell it out for you.
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@secularmerlin
The worst part is he's said here that he's Indian (South Asian ethnically/racially, born and raised in the US) and knows exactly how horrific colonialism is/was yet is relishing in it having been done to natives of another land.
I have no idea why Ilikepie5 would congratulate Columbus, not one tiny bit. Columbus did horrific things to Haiti in particular as well but basically the entire 'West Indies' were ravaged by his crew.
This is also why the West Indies have their name, he was so sure he'd landed in India both times (first in the Caribbean and later on what is now US). I am pretty sure he'd have been worse than the British were in India, towards the Indians, had he landed there. The extent of rape and pure merciless degradation was something specific to his strand of colonialism. Not saying he was the only one but the severity of it all in the short burst he and his crewmembers did it is 'up there' with the most barbaric ways to colonise.
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@whiteflame
lol. do you think the second wrote that or copy-pasted it to test if posts that are pasted get moderated?
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@Vader
@whiteflame
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@MarkWebberFan
how is that comparative to switzerland and how is singapore close to 'third world'?
You just type a lot of nonsense
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@MarkWebberFan
your views on immigrants are actually disgusting tbph.
What the fuck does this even mean?
I doubt America has angel-like immigrants while Singapore has devil-like immigrants. They're all the same; give them a chance and they can be thieves just like my social circle was.
the only example you gave was one scam artist, which there are plenty of in any country's local. Trump is a fantastic scam artist, if he wasn't as rich as he was he'd do worse than Tuan and smile while his victim's life was ruined.
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@BigPimpDaddy
badudsaiulyricalbadayaioyfeioy blam
vhoiahioegivingemheiohwoihgwiohge ham
ioewhwioehtongtwistawieoh shamalam damn watityscripturetetweiywiuywe sam
you either love it or hate it
I prefer Twista's later stuff where he became intelligible in delivery.
To me this is fantastic rap:
speed isn't everything.
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