RationalMadman's avatar

RationalMadman

A member since

10
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11

Total posts: 19,931

Posted in:
Goodbye.
Oh the specific reason I stated it there and then was you implied I imagined it and was mentally ill for thinking it. I was clarifying that the others reading this needn't rely on a single word of you or I about the other or their self, the proof is in the pudding as they say. Investigate it yourselves, guys/girls/aliens/other.
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sayonara
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@WaterPhoenix
both
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Goodbye.
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@Speedrace
the 'gtfo goodbye' effect to the aforementioned bully.
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sayonara
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@Gatorade
clickbait is an art, not a science. Trust me on that. You can't just experiment and get good by logical results, you need to really try, and then you'll inspire drama like no other before you. ;)
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Goodbye.
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@Speedrace
Missing the 'bai' at the end of the 'k thx'...

Oh wait, the thread's Title slapped it home. ;D As did my medal, seriously I'm happy about that one!
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just curious, what's your IQ.
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@janesix
Then your natural forte will clearly be use of the English language, do not disregard that or think I doubt it. Good for you, now use English to understand mathematics. Think of the logic in words, not symbols and numbers, utilise all your complex ingenuity with grammar and spelling to comprehend algebraic logic, statistical sums and algorithmic sequences, push your natural edge to the maximum and let it overflow into other areas.
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Goodbye.
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@Speedrace
I see, it's a hilarious... rhyming... genius line, oh yes I see all three of those things in it... Especially the rhyming...
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just curious, what's your IQ.
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@janesix
Actually they probably have below-average IQ if they're like that. That's their burden to bear, what do you want me to say?

I didn't deny it's natural selection at play. I didn't deny some have unfair disadvantages. Life is not fair, the game is rigged in a true deterministic outlook and even if it isn't rigged it's still 'inevitable' so, as I said before:

I put a lot of effort into increasing my intelligence. Then again, if you're arguing that it's fate and everything is inevitable then so is the pride one feels for having it so that's a non-sequitur.

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Goodbye.
I will like to let you know that your comments, forum posts and debate votes are all visible for others to review the history of and determine it for themselves, no imaginary friends needed.

The only thing they can't notice in retrospect is the image changing or context of some of what you said/did, which is barely relevant as a lot of it is standalone abuse. The difference between us is I am on the side of truth and you're only proving me more and more correct with every post you're making, you're desperate to mock me into silence but the beauty if it is I can stay silent after this post, I just told people to look for themselves and described in depth the pattern to look for, which you thankfully quoted and proved correct there and then.

You now can type whatever you want, this thread is won by me because all anyone has to do is research this thread, other threads and you in general and they will see the truth.
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just curious, what's your IQ.
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@janesix
Okay, so for instance right here right now, ask yourself why you're engaging me in public instead of in private. If the motive isn't to 'expose me' or something, then why not just make a topic on it unrelated to me?

I am asking you to answer this in your head, not 'calling you out' for it. After doing that, ask the questions you just asked me (all three) to yourself. Try, grasp at straws in your head (I am not mocking you, everyone does this when they start out truly thinking for themselves)...Try so hard to answer it yourself. Use a search engine, textbooks and anything at your disposal other than the direct asking of another human being. Try it. It will pain you at first, anger you, sadden you... Discard those emotions. Do not stop until you begin instinctively saying to yourself 'I will only ask the question, if the answer is something either impossible for me to attain without inside-knowledge and/or too expensive to attain, given my bank account.'

Do anything you can to increase your habitual thinking in itself, it will hurt at first. I am talking about actual headaches, tiredness, stress. It is not possible at the start to truly do it, you are addicted to experiencing answer-spoonfeeding. The first withdrawal symptom will be lack of trust in others, before the headaches really matter, before the tiredness kicks in, before any nightmares begin or whatever. You will begin to trust no one, at all. Stop that. It's probabilistically insane to think that just because you haven't truly thought for yourself on a regular basis that there was that huge of a security flaw and that willing of an adversary that suddenly now your life will be turned upside-down for realising how vulnerable your thought process was. Just because they're unreliable in a true sense of intellect, doesn't mean that those around you that you trusted are all untrustworthy but given probability and trends, I guarantee you that when you truly pursue this journey you'll 'fall out' with 3 friends and/or family members that you didn't realise were toxic and dragging you down with their negativity and/or stupidity. You will start seeing a world and reality where you rely on yourself and others interact with you to help you or to hurt you and you need to work out which and why. Do not punish the helpers, do not reward the hurters. You can't do this perfect at first, heck no one ever really can. Do this more and more in daily life.


Around 3-4 weeks into this attitude, you'll begin to notice you are developing new voices in your head, or at least two voices that are both your own. One voice may even turn into images etc, please I don't want to discuss mental health here but logically if you never ever had hallucinations before, you won't get them afterwards either. If you did, take notes, use critical thinking to notice your hallucinations. Do not feel fear, seek help, strategise how to get it as good-quality but also cheap as possible and if need be get medication. I doubt you will be developing a new hallucination though, this new voice/imaging system in your brain is confused for being ADD/ADHD, it's just your IQ increasing on a hardware (brain) that's become used to thinking dumber. You need to keep the second thought-strain running. It will help you not only multitask but maximise usage of time and effort if you're doing one thing at once while processing background thoughts. You will notice that it will hit a wall at three simultaneous thoughts and that it will work best if two discuss/interact with each other on one activity while the third deals with 'hmm what will I eat later, hey what do I have to do later today?' avoid pushing memories and thoughts about traumatic experiences to the background thoughts. If you are having PTSD or flashbacks, they won't stop until you bring them to the forefront and deal with the 'why me' stuff head on.

Around 3 months in, you'll start to notice that people genuinely, categorically and objectively are dumber than you. Don't feel pride yet, focus on those who are on your level or above it. Your competition will keep you on your toes and make you able to exercise the brain to its true maximum. You are at this point a very intelligent human but not a genius. To become a genius, if you want to become one, you need to get a hobby that is brain demanding and introverted. You cannot ever be a genuinely extroverted genius. They cannot and do not exist in any race, culture etc. You must learn to love your own brain, be your own best friend and this will help you better pick a close friend and/or lover other than yourself. Do not think your intelligence over others entitles you to mistreat them; remember the 'help' concept? Save your energy for helping those who help you at calculated times. Be the one who helps them when no one else will, it will let you make a little effort go along way into that bond and ironically you'll actually be helping them more than anyone else has/could for a long time due to how desperate they were. The same critical thinking that lets you see flaws, pain, agony in your allies will then work on your adversaries who you should turn into neutrals, allies or people who are irrelevant to your enjoyment in life and ability to do what you do. If/when you meet an adversary who is neither of those 3 things and who you can't 'turn' you have a new peak to reach in critical thinking.

After a year or 2, the competition will wear off. You won't even think 'I won' you will think 'they lost and hopefully are on their journey to become a genius as well'. It's no longer about beating people by then, you're on a whole other level where it's about you, yourself and the mental power you can unlock if you keep at it. You may even cure some disease and win a nobel prize along the way but that's more circumstance and 'form of intelligence' than anything else. There are all kinds of geniuses, don't try to be the one you don't have the 'natural edge' at, it's pointless.
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just curious, what's your IQ.
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@janesix
The same ways you can lose it over time. Have you never noticed people get more and less creative, logical and whatever else in 'ups and downs' throughout life? Well, it's true that for the average human, intelligence stays stagnant; because most people see the brains as the means and joy/peace as the end but some people mix it up a bit. They see themselves as machines almost, I'm not quite that extreme. When you start valuing thinking critically and correctly over being happy, angry, loving, hating etc you start to get discipline and form habits that slowly increase your actual pathing in the brain's efficiency and much else. Hormones, nutrition and such matter too. People who work out a lot physically never ever (figuratively never) are the most intelligent people in the room and the reason is that they aren't flexing their brain enough, instead of their body. This means in a cutthroat situation with the mind, they will screw up. Similarly, the hacker genius or whatever will screw up in an emergency physical combat scenario and the elite emotional manipulator / warrior will flounder in both those scenarios. The forte of some is the downfall of others.

You cannot ever truly be intelligent in all ways. Pick your specialties but then find ways to branch them out to compensate, regardless. A wide-spread but still somewhat pillared intelligence in some categories that aims to be 'truly weak' in no way at all but only 'super smart' in some select few ways it regularly 'works out' by thinking it at a high level in a fast-paced scenario, is the true peak intelligence according to me. You can train that, yes, but if your nutrition and upbringing were too brutally bad (starving kid, meth-head parents who never let you see anything informative or go to school) you can end up irreparably unintelligent, that is true.
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8chan should not be getting censored simply because criminals are using it
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@TheAtheist
Neither did I, but you just didn't.
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just curious, what's your IQ.
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@janesix
I put a lot of effort into increasing my intelligence. Then again, if you're arguing that it's fate and everything is inevitable then so is the pride one feels for having it so that's a non-sequitur.
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Rational Madman will never quit this site
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@David
@bsh1
This is a callout thread but I will say my piece then please lock it and even delete it. You need to come down harsher on this stuff or people will laugh and do it again and again.

Anyway, I quit the site before that too, I quit the site and came back. Yes, I did. I am curious why everyone cares, maybe it's because there's nothing better to talk about on this site? That's actually a genuine shame.

Also, what is being quoted isn't what I wrote alone, it's an edited version of what I wrote designed to mock me and belittle what I said. Good one, bravo, clap clap we are all laughing at RM. Remind me again, what's your biggest concern of the day and thing to debate on this website?

Ah, this is the only thing you discussed in the forums in the past few days, oh look same goes for quite a few members. Maybe you guy should detox your DA addiction like I did. I got a medal out of it too. ๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿ‘
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8chan should not be getting censored simply because criminals are using it
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@TheAtheist
Did you decide to ask a rhetorical question?
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Goodbye.
It's not gentle, never is. The only reason you think this is gentle is because your baseline from other places I've seen you post than DART, is so severely horrific and deeply cutting to the ego that you think this is gentle.

This isn't gentle, it's more polite and veiled. You are consistently, with every single interaction you have with and around me fake, out to tear me to pieces, make me feel like a pathetic waste of space who is a piece of shit loser whether I stay on the site or not as either I'm a failure who can't quit or a coward who can't remain. It doesn't matter what I do, what image I choose, what way I talk, what way I walk. You can and will tear at it and get others to pile on me too.

The problem that I had in the past was that I feared that. I feared you, I hated you and I couldn't get over the fact that you were allowed to do this to me and that others joined in. It wasn't until I quit that I not only saw (based on others' reactions) but also gained perspective by truly not participating in the website even mentally, an outlook that enabled me to realise that the very reason you 'win' against me is that I focus on the painful intent, instead of the cause of the intent itself.

You hurt me because you envy me. You loathe the fact that someone should ever feel so proud and good about themselves that they dare make an attention-grabbing post like this. In your ideal world, I presume everyone shuts the fuck up unless the sadistic bullies decide it's normal and bland enough to be said without any angle to mock it into silence.

The difference between the old me and the new me is I don't care anymore about what you're saying, I care why you're saying it and will use that against you instead of the 'what'. You arbitrarily decide what you can and can't mock, what is gentle ribbing vs sadistic triggering and gang-up-on-him-inciting taunting. You make up whatever you like as you go along with what's a good argument in debates to what's a fair and just reason to be brutal to someone verbally or probably even physically for all I know. Then, when it suits your agenda, you arbitrarily decide what's bad, evil, unjust, stupid etc. All the while, your justification for what you do involves consistent patterns of arbitrary lines:

Iโ€™m not mocking you, Iโ€™m mocking your behaviour.
Interesting. What is 'me' then? Your behaviour since my return (actually during my leave and throughout my stay on this website) has been to make me feel shit. I do not see a single post angled in any shape or form to not make me feel laughed at, looked down upon, retarded, weak, pathetic etc. I don't see any other motive for how and why you are saying what you say, consistently. You lace it at times with a 'but' or 'on the other hand' and give an extremely shallow deflection which again is like Leafy (so I don't know why I'm called the leafy) and then you think that makes the other stuff you said and did just fine.

Then if I defend it, it's my ego talking, oh god the delusional fucktard RM is at it again right? Defending himself, 'bullying anyone who treads on his ego' oh lord... No, honey, that's you.
If you expect not to be gently mocked for making a grandiose, over the top (erroneouslytyped as 'time') โ€œquitting for everโ€ thread, only to quit 10 days later (after already having โ€œquitโ€ at least 3 previous times), then I donโ€™t think you understand how the internet works.
I understand how the Internet works, that's why I recognise strategised cyberbullying when I see it.
Its like if you posted โ€œSTOPโ€ in the forum, and acted surprised if someone replied โ€œHammer timeโ€.
No, it's not. You made a ridiculous analogy. If you harass someone who begs you to stop, you are the bad guy whether it's the Internet or not.

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Goodbye.
Anyway if it wasn't you, it was Freud, which means he simply meant he enjoys me being bullied as he never liked my posts. Frankly, I do not understand the joy as I am not built like that but go ahead berate one another and me, I want no part of this nonsense anymore, I am not playing 'throw shit harder back at you' I am playing 'thanks for the shit you threw at me, how can I help you with your issues?' and I am happy to play that anti-flaming game for the remainder of my time on this website and even in life really.
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Goodbye.
the posts were made around 1 hours ago, Alec hasn't been online for quite a bit longer than that.
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Goodbye.
Are you ever surprised Franklin or just coming in with preconceived notions, slapping 'like' on every Ramshutu post that is out to hurt my feelings?
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Would Jesus support free market capitalism?
No, but I also don't go with the 'he was a socialist' angle either. He'd support strategised Kleptocracy that isn't run by Jews but instead by a Christian elite. This is based both on how Christianity is practised and also on how the actual character Jesus acts in the storyline (despite what he preaches).

You notice how his disciples were an elitist cult? They first had to swear away loyalties to anyone and anything other than Jesus and then had to go along with the nonsense and only be rewarded if they blindly believed in it to begin with (otherwise they were a 'fake fan' so to speak). Extend that to economics and how the 'disciple elite' who serve the agenda he stands by would act. There is then no wonder that Christianity inspired colonialism, slavery and much else. Don't come back at me with 'but Muslims did it too! So did the Romans! Even the Ancient Egyptians!!!', I know they did. I don't support their religions, maybe Roman religion I support more than the rest because Romans never claimed they were the good guys, just the unfairly 'chosen winners' by fate so to speak... there to entertain the Gods.
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Platform development
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@DebateArt.com
Please add Taoism to the religions, I am a Taoist now but ironically as a Taoist I do not mind picking Pagan and simply identifying as a worshipper of nature so it's up to you.
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Goodbye.
Does it feel good inside to mock me like that? Do you think you proved a point?

I can highlight what you're missing;

The stated reason I left is indeed achieved in the time frame I quit. So, I don't understand what you're trying to prove here other than that you're a bully, which I think we already knew, especially based on what I know of you from a website we don't want to talk about.

You are out to hurt, offend, ridicule and somehow you think you paint me as the idiot or loser? Well, maybe you do in some people's eyes. I hope they enjoy the show.
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just curious, what's your IQ.
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@Trent0405
Yes, I am. I doubt I'll quit again actually but you never know.

This website is now what I always wanted it to be for me psychologically; a passion and pleasant hobby. It's not something I 'work at', it's not something I 'have to do' and it's not some place I need to 'prove my worth over all the rest'. It's not that thing for me, I have that elsewhere in life and I am very happy and calm.

I basically detox'd myself (on top of that other 2 week break i took) from this website and an addiction I had formed over time. I realise what this is and what Internet rivalries in general are and have way more perspective than ever before. I am at ease now, it feels good.
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Goodbye.
Now try and fix your attitude and life with that same fervour and skill and you may have a good thing going, darling.
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NordVPN is actually the best VPN if we balance out the categories.
NordVPN completely deletes the device and usage data after your session, but the other 2 do not necessarily do so althought they perhaps stay 'true' to the policy as they keep it airtight within their company.
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What is the diffrence between unrated debates and normal debates
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@crossed
Virtuoso is incorrect and this was a major issue I raised when the concept came about to the website, the mods and the admin agreed with me and changed it.

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What is the diffrence between unrated debates and normal debates
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@David
No. that's the entire reason that unrated was the new word instead of unmoderated. Not all rated debates are moderated, such as our cover battle and vice versa.
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Goodbye.
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@Speedrace
I am not sure what's so funny but I am happy that happiness was brought by my departure and return, even at the sake of how you and Ramshutu perceive me.

I have gained a lot from this departure and honestly I feel more chill now than I ever have in my entire life. I regret nothing about this break and will keep the break from intensively-paced formal debating probably permanently for the remainder of my stay on the site. 1-2 at a time maximum will do me just fine from now on, no matter how easy they appear. It's about the timesink and what it does to me outside of debating. The stress and all that, it's like a constant lingering thought 'that debate is due but you have shit to do' (I know that rhymes).
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Goodbye.
You spend all day sitting on the website, counting up average rate of forum posts and probably every single detail of every single user. You probably have more information on the website's userbase than the Yandex.Ru tracking cookie that Mike has put in place.

So, when you tell me my departure was barely long enough to impress you, maybe look in the mirror and realise your departure never existed at all to be proud of.

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what's your IQ? take the test
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@dustryder
That test gives me 114.

That test is complete nonsense.

For the pure logic relationship 'X is to Y as Z is to ?' I searched up 3 of the words I really didn't know. If I didn't do that, I couldn't fairly be evaluated on understanding relationships but on the 'opposite of this word' I didn't search and simply admitted I had no idea what 'lithe' was and guessed at what 'verticious' meant.

Overall, I know for a pure fact that I am far more intelligent, FAR MORE, than 114 but that was my result nonetheless. I was insanely accurate throughout and even impressed myself as I went along. If you want I will go through every single question and also describe how tough+fast my brain found it and reached the answer.

I will only do this if you or others will join in and would rather prove myself to you in private, I have no issue being seen as dumb.
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what's your IQ? take the test
So it's an accurate test, but it came up with come very strangely worded questions at times, the 'street' one are a brutal trolling and it slowed me down enough to artificially lower the results vs my natural IQ.
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just curious, what's your IQ.
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@Trent0405
I had an innate IQ of 124-127 my whole life officially but I know for a fact that my training and life have increased it to 142 with a margin of -/+3. I am certain this is my IQ based on testing myself in unorthodox ways. I am at my peak in sense of IQ now, I don't have the genetic makeup to become a greater 'fast thinker of logic' but I am a genius due to other reasons. I am creative and very deep in my capacity to utilise knowledge in one area and convert it into an advantage at learning another in ways even 160 IQ'ers would stagger at. This enables me to have such a wide array of knowledge and ability at anything mentally-oriented relative to almost all other human beings.

- quoting myself from this thread: https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/2499
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what's your IQ? take the test
I had an innate IQ of 124-127 my whole life officially but I know for a fact that my training and life have increased it to 142 with a margin of -/+3. I am certain this is my IQ based on testing myself in unorthodox ways. I am at my peak in sense of IQ now, I don't have the genetic makeup to become a greater 'fast thinker of logic' but I am a genius due to other reasons. I am creative and very deep in my capacity to utilise knowledge in one area and convert it into an advantage at learning another in ways even 160 IQ'ers would stagger at. This enables me to have such a wide array of knowledge and ability at anything mentally-oriented relative to almost all other human beings.
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Goodbye.
You're all paying the winner $50 each or you're all paying because I'm here and I should feel shit for coming back to a site where no one wants me?

Both are objectively bullshit and you made it up to make me feel anger or sadness much like most of what you post but that is because you are pained deeply by a life few would want to live through and that is why you are powerful.
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Goodbye.
Good for them, are you paying?
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what's your IQ? take the test
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@n8nrgmi
I took the test in honest regard, never having taken that particular one ever before. I got the result 135 which is an underestimation and I will explain why and also cover 2 points I so-called 'cheated'.

I had to search for the antonym question on exactly what the hell the opposite of 'street' was or could be. If that is cheating, so be it. I couldn't know whether or not the answer was true or false without understanding how a word that I never knew could have an opposite, could have one. The result I chose was 'false' and was solely due to 'street' being in the list. A highway or 'roadway' in some slang, can be 'opposite a street' on a map in some sense but if that was really how we were meant to think abstractly and select 'true' then I don't understand. that question likely lowered my IQ result as it took me so much time to think and comprehend.

The other point I 'cheated' was the word 'congruent' made absolutely no sense to me at all when saying 3 hexagons. There was no reason for it to not call them 'identical' instead.

Anyway, I did not 'cheat' in any other way at all. If I had no search engine available, I would have selected 'false' for the antonym question because I would assume that since 'road' is a synonym for street and not antonym, I'd choose false hoping it was meant to trick you. The opposite of 'grasp' being 'release' wasn't easy to notice but I cannot fathom what can be the opposite of 'street', it isn't a type of thing to have an opposite of...

It is possible that the opposite of 'street' is 'alley' or 'sideway' or something as in a street is for cars andall kinds of people but alleys are only for pedestrians and cyclists. Neither begin with R and that really took me the most time out of all the questions by far. As in almost a full minute I think, the rest was much more straightforward in comparison.
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Brave browser support program
uBlockOrigin instead of Adblock is privacy vs convenience but if you use Adblock Plus instead of either, you are going for a pointless 'balance' since uBO is simply superior to ABP in all regards other than easier whitelisting of ads. Adblock is superior to both in how well it blocks all kinds of ads and how efficiently it lets you whitelist, its drawback is not being open-source requiring trust. Interestingly, despite this, it demands far less access to your data. ABP and uBlockOrigin ask to see your entire internet history and track your progress through sites... That is not at all needed for an adblocker... Lol.
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Press F to respect RM's legacy
I do not agree more or less with the types like Ramshutu in this thread or the ones posting F. You can respect what you want and disrespect what you want. I am not here to be respected, I am here to let off steam and type logical thoughts.
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Brave browser support program
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@DebateArt.com
@Christen
Firefox is the correct option. If you use Chrome browser, alter your privacy settings, do not sync it to an account and get the add-ons of Privacy Badger, HTTPS Everywhere, a decent VPN, WebRTC Leak Preventer and Adblock (the VPN is optional as all good ones are premium, not free), you will have as good and private an experience online as what Brave Browser offers.

If you are particularly paranoid and value privacy over convenience, uBlockOrigin will do you just fine.

If you get Firefox, get the same add-ons but leave out the webRTC leak preventer. On Privacy Badger set it to never leak WebRTC and then go ahead and set your browsing security to 'strict' (I can help you work out where this is located if need be). You will find one of the best browsing experiences ever. Note that if you sync firefox, unlike with Chrome, even if you do it via your gmail, everything is encrypted on Mozilla's servers such that only the very highest law enforcement can demand to decrypt it and use it at any stage. Regularly delete your history (cookies and cache too) if you please.

Using Firefox in private browsing mode (their equivalent of Chrome's incognito) with those extensions all enabled in that mode, is actually superior to brave browser in privacy, because Chromium is flawed and enabled cookie tracking in ways it never ever can or will prevent like Firefox can. Firefox kills tracking at a native app/program level with 'strict browsing security' settings. This is not at all possible with Chromium products, meaning that what is prevented is at the level of the cookie then sending it to whoever owns it, meaning your browser itself did send that data to its own headquarters in an unencrypted and very reachable manner. This is why TOR browser has absolutely no Chromium equivalent and it never, ever will.

I have said my piece and I am not against what you're doing here. It's win-win if people use this browser and your site gets hosted cheaper on your end for it but do not disguise true private browsing as more or less achievable with/without Brave browser than it is.
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Goodbye.
@Alec

I never expected anyone to accept the apology, I apologise anyway because I know I was an ass, in my tone of conversing at the very least.
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Goodbye.
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@Gatorade
Thanks for the medal. I've quit 'debating formally' for now and will maximum do one at a time. I realise that I have to understand voters a lot more, as well as putting in a lot more time and effort, If I ever want to ever master that.

As for the forums, I'll be using them on and off. I'm tired of the 'fighting' I am here to spread truth, have some fun and that's all. I hope to help this website and its community by altering my modus operandi to focus on helping the targeted, not fighting the ones who do the targeting as much. This tweaking of my MO, will almost definitely be what was always optimal and what I was wrong to avoid in the past.

The fear that I am not 'fighting hard enough' leads me to be toxic to the people I am trying to defend. I will change that.
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8chan should not be getting censored simply because criminals are using it
For anyone who cares, I changed my mind and rank NordVPN the best, alongside SurfShark.


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VPN for people in oppressed nations

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NordVPN is actually the best VPN if we balance out the categories.
Hotspot Shield and many VPNs (including ExpressVPN but it's secure regardless) do not mean 'no logs'. Only SurfShark and NordVPN have a pure understanding of 'no logs' and only SurfShark is so extreme that it leads to a security flaw in the 'unlimited device' promise.

HSS and ExpressVPN both promise no logs. The problem is that they, like many other VPNs that promise this, keep your logs during your session, delete the 'content of your browsing' afterwards (which you are completely needing to trust them to do) and then say 'we have no logs of anything' but they have logs of your IP addresses, duration of usage etc. ExpressVPN works around this by being very expensive and able to afford storing your sessions on Random Access Memory (RAM) that means it never has the servers to properly be seized by governments. Turkey seized their servers after the assassination and the following occured:

As we stated to Turkish authorities in January 2017, ExpressVPN does not and has never possessed any customer connection logs that would enable us to know which customer was using the specific IPs cited by the investigators. Furthermore, we were unable to see which customers accessed Gmail or Facebook during the time in question, as we do not keep activity logs. We believe that the investigatorsโ€™ seizure and inspection of the VPN server in question confirmed these points.


Hotspot Shield is, other than VyprVPN, amongst the true "Original Gangsters" (OGs) in the VPN game, VyprVPN owns all its own servers and is very carefully wording its 'no logs policy' by avoiding admitting what it's keeping and using Switzerland laws not to reveal. HSS also uses sly wording but has only ever been proven to be recording the bare minimum required to give targetted ads to its free users (it's a very unusual VPN in that it offers itself free but then charges premium users more to make up the difference and be a 'hero' in some kind of genuine sense). I am almost entirely certain that if in fourteen years, HSS has never once been reported to turn anyone in but I admit it has no 'warrant canary' and is shockingly operating in Ukraine and Russia. I will honestly tell you that track record means a lot in the VPN world, so I don't distrust them due to this. I do, however, find the VPN is not worth the price and I know they are charging that much in order to handle the free users' load.

SurfShark has a simple flaw with regards to their 'pure no logging' attitude. They let you have unlimited devices to one account but don't let you log people out of devices even if you change your password, they justify this as them being true to their no-logs policy. I won't say more as I could be accused of revealing something that I agreed not to reveal as a user in some fineprint but that is a blatant flaw and one you could find out by talking to support as a non-user of the product. That alone increases the security threat to you since a whole array of people can continually impersonate you on their service doing god knows what and no matter how early or late you realise you can't trust them, you can't log them out of your account on their device. So, how does NordVPN who is also a diehard 'no logs' VPN in the genuine sense of the term, keep to its 'maximum 6 devices using the VPN at any time' policy? Well, that's classified, as in it's a copyrighted audit report that only users of the VPN can access and agree to reveal nothing of when seeing it so it's up to Nord to truly explain it but to put it simply; it's based on using a server solely used for the counting of devices, that is independent of the data transfer happening in one's session. That is obviously the only way this could be done and is how Hotspot Shield does it too, as does ExpressVPN.

Value for money and customer support

Some of the most expensive VPNs (other than ExpressVPN, which has fanastic support) do not offer true 24/7 live chat. You are often talking to a bot, not a person, and they cover these hours by automated 'please ask later' stuff and Idk what I didn't go ahead and test every single one as that's immoral to do if I'm never intending to use the product even if the support is good. Live chat support is not available on many VPNs even as a premium user. That is hilarious as they are often more expensive than SurfShark, which is the single cheapest and yet one of the single best. NordVPN is the best as an all-rounder and is weak in no category at all other than split-tunneling capacity on computers.

If you are in an oppressed nation and use NordVPN just take note that you need to use obfuscated servers (equivalent of SurfShark's camouflaging which is automatic and not opt-in or opt-out but only properly works if you have OpenVPN UDP and avoid split-tunneling, oh yeah and you have to choose their NoBorders option, which they never explain is actually their camouflage mode but I think it's because the support staff never realised this is the in-app name of the website-named 'camouflage mode'. Since it's automatically opted-in they say it's automatic with the product).

You will find that NordVPN and SurfShark are the options to go for if you are in an oppressed nation and using them behind a browser like TOR or Firefox with good privacy add-ons is your best bet at freeing your mind on the Internet.

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NordVPN is actually the best VPN if we balance out the categories.
SurfShark's advantage on Nord is that it offers unlimited devices, is much cheaper and enables efficient split-tunneling.

If you pick anything other than SurfShark or Nord, you are either paying too much or paying for trash. Find me one exception and I'll 'eat my hat'.

SurfShark says that it offers unlimited devices. It also says that it has an efficient whitelister (split tunneling) mechanism and that it camouflages your connection as HTTPS traffic to your ISP (which is extremely important if you're in an oppressed nation).

Transparency issue 1: Split-tunneling

The problem is lack of transparency and I am going to explain how/why. As soon as you enable split-tunneling with SurfShark, you are not fully camouflaging your connection because it demands Ikev2 Protocol (which they never explain, and your settings will say you're on OpenVPN with UDP but really you have IKev2 with maybe some layer of OpenVPN on top). This is especially true if using the Android or iOS when/if you have their 'whitelister' activated for some apps. It is spitting the connection but operating on a protocol designed for good configuration but less 'pure security' nonetheless I'd say sure, there's no leaks happening but the key is that the apps/programs you make 'whitelisted' will sense you're using a VPN due to how it splits. This means if you think you can just split it like that and the things using your real IP will go 'ah everything is fine' you are so wrong. If you play online poker, use any bank-related programs or something that basically your money and real-life depend on, you can technically be banned for doing this even though you white-listed it. That aside, to truly whitelist a program in Windows with SurfShark is so utterly more complex than they make out with their 'tick the game you want to whitelist' options. The Client you play on is one of many .exe files (Idk what mac has instead of .exe and never ever will care, Apple and me fell out of love a long time ago). If you go through all the .exe files, you often find 'tracker' especially for games that want to ban 2 people playing from the same IP or track cheating or ban-bypassing like that. If you are not running that through your real IP, you can get banned for it. It comes down to how lenient and understanding the tech team is and how recipient to them, the admins are, that determines the mercy given to you when you explain you didn't realise you weren't whitelisting it fully. Note, even when whitelisted fully, split tunneling cannot and will not ever fully work for things like that because it works by it understanding you're blocking tracking and other things with your VPN active and then going 'oh we are lucky to have your real IP anyway but how do we really know for sure?'. If you understand programming, you'll realise why NordVPN is much more honest for only enabling you to have split tunneling on Android and why the only true way to split-tunnel on computers is to have browser extensions with your VPN there and the rest of your computer completely 'exposed'. This registers to games and programs as completely acceptable as there is no way you're faking your IP to them, regardless of your VPN on the browser being active. You can split-tunnel on Android with NordVPN if you read their support guide on IKeV2 but it's not 'easy' to setup ('just a bit easier than medium' is what I'd rank it).

ExpressVPN has the exact same issues as SurfShark with regards to authenticating the split-tunnel but maybe they have a workaround or 'true split tunneling' mechanism, I haven't used their product to speak on it. They charge too much, as do Hotspot Shield. I don't trust any other VPN, because I know how to analyse the proper 'never turn you in' element of a VPN based not only on the wording of their T&C and Privacy Policy but physical things, audits, track record etc.


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VPN for people in oppressed nations
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
@David
@Christen
@PressF4Respect
Upon reflection, I was incorrect to talk down on NordVPN. I will make a new topic on this and go into why Nord is just as supreme as the other three and I found 2 flaws, one significant and one not, in SurfShark (not at all to do with the physical VPN) and 2 not-so-significant flaws in HSS, one of which is to do with the VPN, that I'll discuss.
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Goodbye.

To those who wronged me, I forgive you. To those I wronged, I wish you well and understand your dislike for me.

For those I didn't wrong but you still detest me, I couldn't care less. For those who do not detest me, want you to understand that my quitting of this website is to do with seeking a more private life. One where I don't need to worry about bullies, authorities or any of that. I am becoming a more cowardly person at a first glance but a happier, stronger one in the long run who actually will do things with my life.

I decided to not do the moon landing debate, it may be so good or so bad and controversial, regardless, that I end up famous for it and that's not the kind of heat I want. Believe the Earth is round, that we landed on the moon, that everything is fine or that everything is not. Make your own mind up, I'm not your guardian or guide in this life.

I wish you all the best, seriously, but I will never ever be returning to this website. This time it's real, this time I have truly and utterly decided to do it and not felt pressured into it by anyone other than myself. I love the time I spent debating, I love that I'm quitting it now, the two are not mutually exclusive.

If you feel like I trolled by accepting debates just to quit, that's fine. I am whatever you say I am, to you as an individual at the very least.

I had an addiction to online debating, a real genuine addiction. It made me toxic, adversarial and a real cunt even to the admin and if I am to change into a person who cares for others and doesn't just 'fight against them to prove them wrong' I needed the losses, I needed the Ramshutus, the bsh1's and everyone involved from the Castins to the bench's to show me along the way just how wrong it all was.

I was completely incorrect about my role in the world and in life and I have finally understood it all. I have issues, I am angry, unhappy and never really got over a depression that I thought I'd gotten over years ago. I need to finally seek a different path in life and this is the time to fully pursue it, no more 'on and off' I know for a fact what my life was and was not meant to be now. I really wish you all the best and hope this becomes one of the best online debating sites.

I genuinely am sorry for what a cunt I've been even just yesterday on the website, I keep being passive-aggressive, aggressive and the cycle continues and it makes everything a lose-lose situations for me and the people I interact with over time as even those I grow close to want to distance themselves from me. I may end up seeking professional help but I doubt it, I think that finally fully dedicating myself to going on a path ofย agreement andย healing will help me. This is not me denouncing debating itself as a bad thing but I do think once you get too into it, it can begin to alter you as a person and make you fight against everyone around you when all they wanted to do was help you.

I am not saying that I regret all my rivalries to be clear, I'm saying I should have been empathetic to my enemies and their victims instead of deciding my role was the one to 'prove them wrong' and 'bring them down'. I am a healer and lover, that was my role all along but what I've been doing in life so far is anything but that. I don't think I will ever fully change now, I've finished developing my personality pretty much and my core being antagonistic and avoidant will never truly change into being passive and agreeable but I do think I can channel it far, far better and become the best at whatever it is I do without needing to fight everyone while doing it.

I hope you all genuinely forget about me over time but given my place on the forum leaderboards and how much people talk about me, I'm sure it will take a few months to fully eradicate my relevance to the site as the rap battling 'raaaaaah I'm the best' guy who really clearly wasn't actually meant to be that great of a debater but I hope eventually you all fully forgive, forget and move on with your lives here and IRL never thinking twice about me.
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Evolution
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@EtrnlVw
@David
@bsh1
Is what is happening here spam? Either way I am blocking and unfriending this troll now. 8 notifications from same guy.
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Oromagi Wins
I know him from DDO and debateisland so I got more perspective on his views than most but I know for a fact he will not like you labelling him as a progressive or even necessarily an atheist, I think he prefers the term agnostic but honestly that I don't know.
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Oromagi Wins
Blamonkey is pro-Capitalism but anti-big-corporations. He has mixed feelings on death penalty and easily could take either side on the debate. I will let him speak for himself but you should know he's very willing to play devil's advocate in debates.
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