Total posts: 4,140
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@secularmerlin
So you think it is morally correct to convict people of thought crime.
Nitpick: I think it is morally correct for God to convict people for thought crime because He knows our thoughts. It is morally wrong for anyone else to do so because they don't know our thoughts, and because no one else has the authority to do so.
I'm afraid I cannot agree. Punishing people for their beliefs (something that is beyond their control) is in my opinion morally reprehensible.
But do you have any objective basis for disagreeing beyond your personal opinion?
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@Intelligence_06
If all of us are going to hell anyways, then why bother even trying to go to heaven anyways?
Because all we need to do to go to heaven is believe God's promise to forgive us. You don't have to try. God has done the work for us. All we need to do is believe.
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@Intelligence_06
I don't see why going to hell is a problem.
Depends on whose conception of hell your talking about. The Muslim hell, if I recall correctly, is a place filled with smoke where the only water is boiling. That would get annoying after a while, but it could be worse.
The Christian conception of hell is rather different.
Revelation 20:9b-10
But fire came down from heaven and devoured them. 10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
There's no way to have fun in a place like that.
why doesn't religions tell us to find fun even in Hell? If Anna Frank found fun living under Nazis' eyelids, why is that the reason that we should avoid hell instead of coping with it?
Because if you're hiding from Nazis, you aren't being actively tormented 24/7.
Also, prove that we are sinners without using anything in the bible.
Why without using the Bible? We're talking about whether the God of the Bible is justified in condemning people to hell. The Bible is an authoritative source on that topic.
However, I can demonstrate this particular point without having to use the Bible. Let me ask you this: Is anyone morally perfect? Is there someone in the world that you can point to who has never done anything wrong, no matter how small or insignificant? If the answer is that no one is morally perfect, then it follows that everyone has done something morally wrong. Therefore, everyone is a sinner.
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@Intelligence_06
Because all of us are sinners. We all deserve hell. God has provided us a way to be saved, but if we reject it, then we will get what we deserve.
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@BrotherDThomas
Okay, I give up. How are you making the copyright symbol that you put after Bible Slapping Silly? I can't figure out how to do that.
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@Dr.Franklin
Aha! Prepare to be Bible Slapped Silly, Pseudo-Christian!
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@secularmerlin
And you do believe that it is morally correct for them to be sent to hell?
Yes.
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@3RU7AL
Ok, but don't lose your cool. The fastest way to lose a debate is to lose your cool.
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@Lunatic
Where did I ask you or speed to tell me who you tracked? I said I wasn't going to out your results unless you guys wanted me to prove I was the tracker. Somehow speed mis-understood me and claimed his results, and you did directly after before I could confirm them lol. Not sure why.
Oh. I misunderstood what you were saying and thought you were asking us to say who we visited.
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@Stephen
Let me ask you a question. Do you think morality is objective or subjective? If it's objective, where does it come from? If it's subjective, then what basis do you have for condemning God's justice (or anything else) beyond your own personal preference?
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@Stephen
So even those infidels that do live an moral upstanding life will not see heaven or god simply because they did not believe. Very tolerant!
Moral and upstanding isn't the standard by which God judges us. Perfection is. None of us can meet that standard. That is why Jesus took our punishment on the cross. However, the gift of salvation can't help you if you reject it. If you don't like that standard, it won't do any good to argue about it with me, because it's not my standard. It's God's.
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@secularmerlin
Do you believe that moral (by the metric you are employing) atheists go to hell?
Yes.
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@crossed
Bill gates want to depopulate the planet.
He didn't say that in the video. In fact, he came to a rather different conclusion.
Bill gate's does so by saying under the pretext if we do a really good job with the vaccine's the population will decrease.
Not decrease. Level off. He's saying that saving lives with better medicine doesn't lead to overpopulation because the population growth naturally levels off.
Because when people are healthier they choose to have fewer children.
Yep. There's no conspiracy here.
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@secularmerlin
morality must necessarily come from some god(s)
Objective morality, yes (although I do know of some atheist philosophers who would disagree with this). Subjective morality, no. While I don't agree with subjective morality, many people do and have morals based on it.
simply failing to believe in god(s) is itself immoral.
I would actually say it is (pedant mode: it's not disbelief that He exists that is immoral but rather the rejection of His salvation), but I would also say that I'm not any more moral than you. That is, we are all guilty of immoral things and are in fact naturally immoral. In my view, we're all in the same boat morality-wise. The only difference is that I trust in God's ability to save me from my immorality, but that is a question of faith and not merit, so I have no cause to boast.
When I say that non-Christians can be moral, I mean moral as in being a generally nice person, not being a jerk or a criminal, etc. I don't mean moral as in innocent of all immorality, which none of us are. To try to end my rambling, yes, you can be moral even though you aren't a Christian. However, none of us are morally perfect.
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@Stephen
What I have written, I have written, from my own observations and experience.
I am sorry that is reflective of your own experience, but it would be foolish to pretend that your personal experience is a logical ground on which to insult billions of people you've never met.
I will grant you that some religions are more tolerant of the infidel than others.
I will grant that there are people of every religion, including those of no religion at all, can be very intolerant of people with different beliefs. But if you're going to lump billions of people into the same basket, you should be able to back it up with objective data, or not make the assertion in the first place.
But you need to look up the word - tolerate.
I know what it means and I do my best to tolerate others' beliefs. I apologize if I do not seem tolerant to you.
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@3RU7AL
I don't detect any personal attacks or foul language.
True.
I wasn't aware that CAPITALIZATION was untoward.
In moderation, no. However, you've been writing whole posts in all caps with large numbers of exclamation marks. That is the online equivalent of shouting.
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@Vader
No it was town that fell asleep. Here's what happenedYYW roleblocked the nightkill as he was a BP, but he fell asleep and never claimed the role when he revealed and Speed never claimed the RB. Then YYW woke up and revealed that his BP worked, which left Speed as policy
Ok.
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@Vader
It works both ways. If there's always a vanilla and a game comes along with no vanillas, people would get suspicious simply because of the prior trend.
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@Vader
I'm not sure losing because his scum partner fell asleep really counts.
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@Vader
I agree that players should stop conceding games. I remember that my first win in mafia was in the Office mafia. You, Speed, and I were mafia. The two of us got ourselves lynched in the first 2 DPs. Five DPs later, Speed had outlasted the town and we won. To quote Yogi Berra, "It ain't over till it's over."
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@ebuc
That doesn't sound like any fun.
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@Intelligence_06
No, other way around. 16% are of no religion, 84% are affiliated with a religion.
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@Stephen
You just painted 84% of the world with the same brush and essentially called them all moral prigs.
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@Stephen
Christians, indeed all believers in a god believe themselves to have the monopoly on morals. Put simply, if one doesn't believe in god and have faith then then they are believed to be incapable of living a life with morals and an upstanding life . Haughty doesn't even cover it, does it.
As a Christian who knows a lot of other Christians, I cannot think of even a single one who believes that non-Christians are incapable of having morals or living a moral life.
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@ebuc
Good find!
Thanks.
Germaphobe before the pandemic, so the narrative goes, I'm at the other end of the spectrum i.e. I used to wear a T-shirt with naked man inside a barrel and the caption said 'dirt dont hurt'. :--) and in fact is good for kids to play in dirt and get the immune systems activated and built at early age.
I'm more in the middle. I'm not a germaphobe, but I prefer to avoid getting dirty whenever possible. However, I've had been in situations where it's impossible to avoid getting dirty, so it doesn't bother me as much as it used to.
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@ebuc
@Crocodile
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@Intelligence_06
John Cage’s composition makes the average person bored and the crazy person yelling.
That sounds about right.
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@Intelligence_06
Yeah. It's an interesting idea, but it's probably really boring to listen to.
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@3RU7AL
I don't mean to be rude, but what happened to debating civilly? Why all the all caps and bold?
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@Lunatic
@MisterChris
Why did you shoot at TNB?
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@Vader
@TNBinc
@TNBinc
You did pretty well for your first game. Obviously, you need more experience, but you were actually trying to be active and figure the game out. Well done.
@SupaDudz
I'm nominating you for Town MVP for catching That1.
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@MisterChris
It's awesome, actually. This will make a sensational article in the Bard.
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@Lunatic
I did suspect you a bit. What kind of tracker is 2x and asks the people he tracked to tell him his own results?
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@Speedrace
If so, that would explain That1's blunder in DP2 when she gave away BearMan's role. Chris is new, and Grey rarely tries very hard (which is a pity, because he's an experienced player).
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@Lunatic
No thanks. I can't really follow live mafia. It moves too fast for me.
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@ILikePie5
Lunatic vtl'ed Chris for a claim. I'll join him. VTL MisterChris
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@Vader
Oh, is that why everyone just so happens to be online on a Friday night? Makes sense.
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@Mharman
such amounts of chaos is a logic based game sucks, change my mind
It's purely subjective, so I won't bother. I like it, though.
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@Speedrace
I believe SA's role but I'm concerned he's just scum claiming his real role. It would make a lot more sense for mafia to get an extra kill in this balance
My role makes sense as either scum or town in this set-up. Frankly, I didn't bother researching my own role because Pie explained it very clearly, so I didn't even know it could be mafia until you pointed that out.
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@Mharman
OK roleblocker theory is in, because my theory sucked. So if Supa got roleblocked, which gave him an error and doesn't implicate Oromagi, then what?
I don't know, but I'm not trying to figure it out tonight. I feel like I've had a caffeine overdose even though I haven't had any. I'll think through it once I've settled down (probably tomorrow).
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@Mharman
I'm calling it now. Everyone has a power role, making this the worst setup ever.
No, it makes it a role madness game, which are pretty common.
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