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@DynamicSquid
I agree. She's a public speaker and little more. She hasn't accomplished much of anything besides being good at getting media attention.
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@DynamicSquid
I've done two debates. I'm not doing any right now because I'll take a break from the site around Christmas, and I don't feel like forfeiting. I'll do more early next year.
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@DynamicSquid
I could take a year or more to get up there. I don't plan to do more than one debate at a time.
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@Barney
If we're ever in another mafia game together and you want me to do an analysis like that, I'd be willing to do that.
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@DynamicSquid
More seriously, I'm sure you'll catch up in the rankings. You're a good debater.
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@DynamicSquid
While I think squids are cool, it's clear your taste buds are dysfunctional.
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There goes my last chance of defense. I'm telling the truth, but I can't give you any reasons to believe me.
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Well, VTNL. If you do decide to let me live (you won't regret it if you do), I don't want to be ejected for not voting.
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@drafterman
@Barney
You're right. If I was you, I would absolutely lynch me right now, and then defend my choice in the endgame if proved to be wrong.
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@Barney
The most obvious point against SirAnonymous is his fake claim about being a PGO. We know it's fake because drafter visited him without dying. The best reason to fake claim PGO is if you don't want anyone visiting you at night, which is indicative of either mafia or hostile third-party. His claim about being an amnesiac does explain this, but only half-way. Amnesiacs don't have wincons, so it makes sense to pick a role that would convince people to leave you alone until you can get one and actually have a chance of winning. However, a PGO is a foolish claim for an amnesiac because it is so easily CC'ed if someone visited them. It would have been much smarter to pick a bomb, bulletproof, or deathproof, or a non-protective role that doesn't immediately scream "Don't kill me."
The second point against SirAnonymous is the similarity between his play in this game and his mafia play in previous games. In all three, he chose to fake claim a non-visiting role, which makes it harder for anyone with an investigative role to prove him wrong. Also, as with the other two games, he has argued verbosely that he isn't scum.
A third point against him is his failure to VTNL. If he is an amnesiac, then it would make sense for him to VTNL because he wouldn't want to risk the mafia dying before he has a wincon.
The only point I see in SirAnonymous's favor is his defense that it would be better to wait a round to lynch him, because then his affiliation will be certain. While this makes sense on the surface, it falls apart when examined. There is a third-party in the game. If he is scum, then his best chance is to beg for town to wait around. Then, a different lynch of someone not-third party would have to happen. After that, if the NK goes through, he would win because there would only be one town player left. This strategy fits in with his failure to VTNL.
This assumes he is scum. There is no proof that he isn't an amnesiac other than minor behavioral tells. Also, he could be a werewolf. However, if he's a werewolf, then both town and mafia should try to kill him. If he's an amnesiac, then he's expendable. Yes, it would be a mislynch, but better a mislynch and another chance at getting the mafia next round then risking him winning due to the above strategy. Sure, he would lose if he's a mislynched amnesiac, but that's not town's concern. It would be risky to let him live. The only downside to killing him is that, if he isn't scum, there would only be one round to find the mafia, which would be a serious disadvantage.
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@Barney
Sure, why not? Let me get my computer so I can type it up faster.
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I don't think there's anything more I can say to defend myself. If I die, I die. I made a stupid claim, and the mod messed up.
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@Barney
Why does it make sense to lynch someone based on probability this round when you can wait one round and have certainty?
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@Speedrace
If a demolitionist targets someone, does it replace their normal role for that night entirely, or can they still do their normal actions?
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@drafterman
If I was a werewolf, I would have a list of the roles and would have been able to pick something better than a PGO as a fake claim. I would have chosen something that no one could contradict rather than risk a CC.
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Well, at this point, all I can say is that I will be confirmed as either scum or town at the start of the next DP. Don't waste a lynch on me this round.
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@drafterman
That's weird. Speed told me that he would append a message to the DP announcement declaring my choice. He must be using different rules for the roles. In any case, if I am scum, it's not going to hurt you to let me live one more round. If I'm confirmed, then you'll know it; if not, you'll know exactly where to look to find the scum.
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@drafterman
If you let me live, I will be town-confirmed at the start of the next DP. If that doesn't happen, then I'll cast the first vote to lynch me.
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Oh, I get it. I would have shot you. Rats, I thought I could stay under cover for one DP. Should've picked a less volatile role. I'm the third party amnesiac. I get to pick a player from the graveyard in the NP and I will permanently take on their role and wincon. The entire town will be informed of my choice at the beginning of the next DP, so I will town-confirm myself at the start of next round. The reason I lied was that I currently don't have a wincon, so I was going to try to get a vtnl so the game wouldn't end before I get one.
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@drafterman
Wait, what? How on earth does you making me a bomb for one night mean I'm scum when I say I'm a PGO? You do realize that the effects of your role are only temporary and that your target isn't informed of your actions, right?
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@Barney
Yes, there is a third party out there. They tend to do very well for themselves with this setup.
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Good afternoon, everyone. Does anyone have any results from the NP?
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@irontoaster
Welcome to the site! Introduce yourself here.
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@PressF4Respect
Sorry, I won't be able to join. I'll be taking a few weeks off the site around Christmas. I wouldn't be able to play till the end.
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@Lunatic
Thanks for the feedback.
In post 13 when you assumed press was instantly scum because he had a wrong result on you, I thought that was a bit OMGUS'y and close minded if you were town. For example, as town if someone came out with a result on me, I would assume I was framed first, or that the cop was flavored if my lynch wouldn't result in a loss for town.
That was inexperience on my part. I didn't even think about that.
Also I thought you WIFOMing about how you wouldn't waive a night kill was a bit scummy, mostly because you were just in a game with me where I did it, and it worked, so you should know there is potential in that as a strategy.
There was no cop in that game. I knew the potential in that strategy, but I didn't think it would work with a cop in the game. I was telling the truth about the NK. There was no way I would have waived it.
I would have been willing to lynch you, but you weren't a strong read, and I was even second guessing any scum read on you anyway because as scum I didn't think it would make sense for you to counter press by trying to lynch him, as that 1 v 1 would result in your demise upon perss's flip.
I did that because I also told the truth about something else: I really did misread Pie's claim. I thought that he would die at the end of the DP so there wouldn't be another DP. When PressF corrected me, I was afraid that I was about to get lynched over something that everyone assumed was a slip but was really a genuine mistake. I really didn't have a strategy after that. I was just hoping to use the general confusion in the game to try to argue my way out of it, but I was expecting to lose.
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@Lunatic
Did I have any scum tells, or was it just PressF's guilty result that made you suspect me? When did you first suspect me?
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@AvoidDeath
Goodbye. I didn't know you for very long, but I wish you well for the rest of your life.
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@drafterman
Excellent modding. You were very prompt the whole game.
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@Speedrace
Why did you think I was town? I'm curious to know what I did that worked.
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@Speedrace
Well, I suppose my mafia play must have improved since the office mafia. However, it didn't improve enough to compete with you.
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@drafterman
You had me totally confused. I hadn't heard of either a monk or a brutal cop, so I was convinced that the game was impossible. I couldn't think of any way to explain why the lynches and the second NK didn't go through.
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@Lunatic
No real way I could win it either. Without lynches to reduce the number of players, my own lynch was inevitable.
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@Speedrace
GG. You were given a role obscure enough that none of us thought of it and played it perfectly.
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@drafterman
So that's why he pretended to confirm me and Pie but continually pushed for a Pie lynch. He had us all wrapped around his finger.
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@drafterman
How did I get roleblocked in NP1? Is it impossible for cops to get killed by their nightly target?
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A monk? None of us would ever have guessed that. Speed was too smart in guessing my NKs.
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And even if Pie survives again, we can confirm him as town because the only way that would be possible it if he's lynch- or death-proof.
Press could be fake claiming cop, but it would look bad for him if he was wrong the next DP, so it would be too risky to fake a result.
That's only true if he's town. If he's mafia (I'm not considering 3rd-party because I don't see any reason for Speed to lie about that, unless he's mafia), then he has no fear of getting incorrect results. All he would have to do is correctly say that one or two people are innocent to make people think he's confirmed. If he wanted to, he could safely accuse someone of being scum. When they flipped town, he could just plead insanity. In other words, continue to do what he's already doing.
However, this is entirely speculative. The evidence against Pie is concrete and conclusive. If he is telling the truth, then we can find out right now and would also have proof that Speed lied about being a fool.
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@Lunatic
+1I would have been told if my role had no more uses, I asked drafter. I wasn't targeted.
Regardless, we pretty much know pie lied about his role. Bleeder doesn't apply to getting lynched. While I don't know how he didn't die from being lynched, I think him being an angel target makes the most sense out of the roles I listed, but doesn't make sense because speed is 3rd party, and is also trying to lynch pie, so he couldn't be the angel.There might be a role I missed on the list that explains this, but regardless, we know pie is lying and probably scum. He needs to get lynched.
I agree. Pie has to be lying. He would be dead if he wasn't. VTL Pie
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I'm aware that this is a horrible time for this given the FOS on me from PressF, but I can't help it. I will be extremely busy today and will not be active until 6 PM EST at the earliest or 1 AM EST at the latest.
VTNL so I don't get ejected if I don't get online to vote in time. If y'all decide to lynch me, don't do it for inactivity.
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@PressF4Respect
I said there was good evidence against you. However, there is now proof that both of us are town. It isn't flip-flopping to acknowledge the facts, and the facts are that neither of us are scum.
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