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@yachilviveyachali
Maybe we should not say no. Some people like violence, but if you don't, you should submit.
Submitting to a rapist is not always a good idea. If rape cannot be stopped anyway, then submitting would reduce harm probably. But there are cases where men do without asking touch women in public or at work, and that can be prevented by saying no and resisting to them.
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@RemyBrown
If you can't force a dude to endure a few days of vasectomy pain to prevent the death of an unborn kid
Vasectomy reduces number of persons actually. So it is similar to abortion in that sense there.
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@AdaptableRatman
Calvinism is what many who hate god believe in and what many Muslim Sunnis believe in. It states God dooms you from birth or guarantees you end in heaven from birth and basically rigs your life.
If God controls everyone's choice, then everyone is basically God's property now and you are not even you. And God has right to do with his property as he pleases.
There is a lot of similar argument trees, but they are all self-defeating. If free will exists, God is good then. If free will doesnt exist, then God is still good.
Almost all evil in the world is the result of human choice. Humans chose evil and then blame God for their choice. Its like me punching myself in the face and claiming God made me do it and that I dont want to punch myself in the face there now.
God literally lets people disobey God. And they then claim God made them disobey God now.
Its a very strange way in which they think.
How do you even convince someone who thinks he has no choice?
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@IlDiavolo
Focusing on the negative just causes more pain there.That is a good tip.
Yeah, its actually crucial. Modern psychology teaches people to talk about all the problems, which often turns into just complaining then. I have actually been to online therapy and complaining there is unbearable. Basically 95% of it is just negative talk. The reason why religion helps with depression while psychology doesnt is very simple. In religion, you dont always complain. You are grateful for both the good and the bad. You pray and ask God for help instead of doing endless complaining. You are not going to make bad things go away by talking about them all the time. You make them go away by focusing on good things, divine things which cause greater happiness.
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@AdaptableRatman
Why can't you be evil with restricted will?
He said that you cant, that its not your fault if you dont have free will. Again, I was merely showing him his own logic here.
I do think that person's choice can be evil even if person doesnt have all knowledge. To claim otherwise would yield some absurd results.
Choice by definition means choosing between multiple options.
If a person chooses a more evil option, then his will is more evil. And that will is true him.
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@AdaptableRatman
My argument was about his goalpost.
He claims free will cannot exist.
If that is true, then God cannot have free will.
If God doesnt have free will, then God cannot even be evil.
If God cannot be evil, he can only be non-evil or good.
It wasnt that I agree with his goalpost there, I just show where his goalpost leads.
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I have probably walked past thousands of people. Now, if I walked past thousands of bears in forest, I probably wouldnt be here now. So if someone thinks its better to live in a forest with bears, sure, go there now. No one seriously even holds that position there. These feminists go to parties and have sex with these same men which they call scarier than bears. If men are so scary, then maybe dont run into their embrace.
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@FishChaser
1: I don't need to have a choice to be endowed with the intelligence to recognize that God is evil
Choosing to define evil as you do is also an act of choice.
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@FishChaser
1: I don't need to have a choice to be endowed with the intelligence to recognize that God is evil.
You need a choice to know what is better.
2: "know better" implies that God's intentions are benevolent. I recognize that God knows way better than I do how to set up a reality that is as shitty as possible. I could never design a universe that is better at being horrible than the one God has made.
Choosing is an act of deciding which option is better now. If you cant choose, then you cant know what is better now.
3: Maybe God doesn't have free will, but everything he creates he creates by his nature which is psychopathic
If God doesnt have free will, then its not his fault there.
4: I don't get what you're not understanding here. My brain has come to a conclusion based on it's intelligence and it's experiences, neither of which I chose to have.
Your brain came to conclusion based on a choice. You saw world, and compared it to world you imagined could exist, and chose that your imagined world is better. You chose that good is better than evil. If you dont actually have a choice, then you cannot choose that good is better than evil.
5: I would prefer to have no choice but to be happy instead of having no choice but to be miserable, the latter of which is my current situation
Prefering is an act of choice which you say you dont have now.
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@FishChaser
Do you prefer to have a choice?
And if you are saying that you dont have a choice, then how can you choose to say that God is evil then? If you cant choose, then you cant choose that God is evil. You cant decide that because you lack choice to even do that. Labeling something as good or evil is an act of choosing.
And also, if you think free will cannot exist, then God cant have free will either. So God is then just like you there.
So again, your position here contains many flaws:
1. You think you know better than God, which is impossible
2. You think free will cannot exist, yet you think God has free will now
3. You say you dont have a choice, yet your whole argument is based on you choosing what you think is better.
4. You prefer to have a choice now. Everyone does. And generally, if things go as you wish them to, you would prefer that. So saying that you dont have any choice while making active choice and prefering some things over others is nonsense.
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@FishChaser
What is the value of a choice to do evil if it isn't a free will choice?
It doesnt have to be a free will choice. Even if we take for granted that free will doesnt exist now, everyone still prefers to have a choice. Ask anyone. Ask yourself. Its not possible to prefer not to have a choice, because even that requires a choice.
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@FishChaser
There is no such thing as free will and even if there was, why is everything disproportionately bad?
I didnt say free will there. I just said choice. If you hold ability to choose as dear, then evil must exist for choice to exist. Choice isnt same as free will. Do you hold ability to choose as dear?
I dont think everything is disproportionately bad there. But most of the evil is caused by human choice now. So if people choose to do bad things, thats their choice still. God could have created only good people, but then humans wouldnt have any choice. They would be no different from slaves there. And if there is no choice, then that is evil, not good.
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@FishChaser
My life experience is so negative
So was mine for many years. I would say bad feelings still come from time to time now. Its best to find some way to make it better. One way is replacing your bad thougts with positive ones. Example, if you feel bad thoughts, just repeat good thoughts or prayers in your head until bad thoughts go away. Focusing on the negative just causes more pain there.
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@FishChaser
Evil must exist in order to give people actual choice. Most of evil in the world is the result of someone's choice. The rest is there just to remind humanity that good is much better than evil. You must know both to compare and choose. Also, God's mind is infinite while ours isnt. In this sense, God always knows better than us now. To claim we know better than God is an absurd claim.
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@zedvictor4
I feel the same after my Sunday cycle ride.
I dont think so.
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@IlDiavolo
marriage is just a fkn social construct to better organize a primitive society like ours. It's useless to me.
Marriage has become worse in recent years with divorce rates high, but marriage is much more than a construct. Its a need. A legal protection of a relationship and family. Now, if you dont plan to have family, its different for you. But generally, all those who want family also seek marriage as a guarantee.
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@AdaptableRatman
Thank you.
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@FishChaser
We mostly agree on sexual morality but I think catholicism goes to far putting masturbation on par with murder and saying that even in marriage sex should only be for reproduction.
Masturbation is probably okay. If person didnt masturbate, he would just have wet dreams, which then makes a mess in the underwear. There is not much choice there, and masturbation isnt harmful. Usually isnt.
Btw how are your chickens doing? I haven't heard about them in a while.
Chickens are fine now. I have 16 of them currently. Not much news there. They eat wheat, corn, insects, soil and grass. Produce eggs. As usual.
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@FishChaser
Remember that two weeks ago you were a Satanist. Everything you're saying is due to the influence of a certain member and aren't even your own thoughts.
I dont think so. I just cant justify sexual immorality. Its probably a flaw of Satanism that it leads people into thinking that sexual sins are good. I think its trying too hard to be complete opposite of Christianity, which it shouldnt be. Other than masturbation or no-divorce marriage, all sexual sins lead to some great problems. Divorce harms children of parents greatly. Going around and randomly having sex eventually results in diseases. There is just no way to justify what some other Satanists support. Even in ancient Greece, people had some standards. Anyone who thinks adultery is any okay just doesnt understand what would happen in society full of it. With that area of Satanism, I strongly disagree. Woman having sex with multiple men at the same time is very corrupt, but such thing was supported by some famous Satanists before. There is this idea that you get rewarded for sins, but I dont think that can be true. Such idea is absurd. There are parts of Satanism which are beneficial to a person, but not all people can practice Satanism properly. Many books just guide people into sexual immorality which will mess them up eventually. I would say masturbation is safe, but any book recommending sex with multiple partners is greatly misleading there, as is any book which considers that having many partners throughout life is okay. Somehow they are focused on this very specific sin which I dont really understand.
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@FishChaser
If Jesus was literally God you would think he would be able to come up with original ideas.
No one else managed to spread Jewish religion to whole world there.
The concept of forgiveness and repentance is present all throughout the OT.
Yes, but not really as a way of reaching Heaven now. And I dont think it was ever mentioned that all sins can be forgiven but one.
Christianity actually makes it harder for non-jews to be saved.
Before Christianity, almost all non-Jews were polytheists there.
The noahide laws are possible to get right by accident even when you don't know they are the criteria to get into heaven.
Old Testament didnt really have heaven for non-Jews. Even for Jews, it was questionable.
If Christianity is true only people who are the right religion, getting sacraments from the right church and following 100 rules can be saved.
There is a verse which says that those of different religions are judged by their hearts alone.
One thing about Jesus that I just noticed is that he is very extreme, in fact being extreme is his main gimmick. It's fitting then that his version of afterlife would be pure polarization where you get either infinite pure suffering or infinite pure bliss and nothing in between.
This isnt true, dude. Jesus clearly spoke of many degrees of punishments and rewards. Some having it easier than others in punishment.
This isn't how the vast majority of Jews saw it though. Jesus also likes to use shocking language to make his point and is often hyperbolic. Jesus took scholars saying things like "if you have murderous thoughts/feeling they are also sinful because they make you more likely to break the murder commandment" and turned it into "if you get angry at someone you're going to hell".
Anger often leads to violence, yes. I dont think everyone who gets angry goes to Hell forever then. Plus, Hell is more like cleaning from sins.
Your last point is true, and it's weird that Christianity spread so much even though there is evidence of it being false. Maybe it was so successful because it allowed for a cult of personality to form around a very tangible and bold character such as Jesus.
If it wasnt for Christianity, most world would be either polytheism or islam, depending on if islam would even appear.
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@AdaptableRatman
It is murder, not kill. Otherwise self defense or Just war would be mortal sins.
I know Christianity allows self defense. To punish those who start killing.
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@AdaptableRatman
Of course more is needed than 10 commandments, mainly the underatanding behind them. Most people understand "no not kill", but "do not commit adultery" is where many people fail. "Do not steal" is another example, as they let government steal a lot.
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@AdaptableRatman
I usually see that praying and religious practices make people much happier. Its a very different form of happiness.
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@IlDiavolo
Did you realize what my user name means?I am Il Diavolo.Lol.
Even Satanism leads to something similar to Christian morality there. It is just a much longer path. People who are sexually immoral very often eventually realize that its wrong. Living in sin is actually a very good way to learn that living in sin is bad. Even if person starts as sexually immoral, all the problems which result from that eventually force a change. Also, chasing pleasure is often self-contradicting. Sexual immorality actually reduces life satisfaction and life expectancy too, which both reduce pleasure. There are some forms of sex magic which are religious way of sexual pleasure, connecting sexual with divine, but hard to sustain if immoral.
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@FishChaser
Other religions before had some similar ideas too. But what was not similar is the united system of those ideas put in place. If you think about it, Christianity offered combined solutions which other religions didnt have.
1. Forgiveness
Very crucial. It meant that evil actions of the past didnt mean you cant become better now.
2. Extending religion to non-Jews
It is clear that if it wasnt for this, maybe Christianity wouldnt even exist.
3. Hell, Heaven for deeds
While it is true that many religions had concept of afterlife, it was actually a lot different. In Ancient Egypt, you just buy your way into afterlife with gold. In Ancient Greece, all souls go to Underworld. In Nordic mythology, you go to heaven if you die in battle. In Judaism, the idea of Hell is actually unknown. Now, there are implications of it. For example, Old Testament says that God will reject Israel if they dont repent. That is one type of Hell. But when it comes to Christianity, it developed such idea completely there. It set a much more clear standards on who goes to Hell and who goes to Heaven. Before Christianity, there were some guessings, but it wasnt united in system where deeds and forgiveness are counted.
4. System of spreading message
This system was unique to Christianity back then. While there were many other religions, they didnt successfully spread their message in every area of the world, as most didnt even have such system.
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@Savant
That is example of inductive reasoning. Inductive reasoning always goes from specific to general. The theory is that because general is consisted of specifics, understanding many specifics leads to understanding general. However, your example is only 1 specific making conclusion about 99 others. At best, you could say "other people could share my preference too".
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@zedvictor4
Pretend mangods are a waste of time and effort.
That is your opinion, not mine.
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@AdaptableRatman
He is Christian in name only I feel. Forgive me Father and Christ if I am wrong and he is really Christian in heart...
Person can change at any moment, but his life history doesnt seem any Christian. Take away the label, and all whats left is power hungry billionaire who openly brags about having sex with married women. He has broken almost every possible commandment there. I am sure he thinks he is Christian, but his deeds dont really show it there.
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@Shila
But Putin is not going to offer Trump money.
I dont know what Putin offered him, but it is clear that Putin gained in this war more land than he lost. And now Putin probably gets to keep all land he took away. I am guessing some resources from that land will probably be shared with Trump. Trump anyway said many times that just supporting Ukraine is a waste of money there. He will force peace, and by that, I mean he will force Ukraine to sign a terrible peace deal.
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@AdaptableRatman
He said Zelensky has to give up land for guaranteed peace. Now Putin wants everything.
Zelensky is in a horrible position there. At this point, it seems Trump might actually be more willing to help Russia if Russia offers him some resources in return. Its all for money. Trump doesnt fight for other values. All his talk is always about money alone.
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@FLRW
I think the Supreme Court just gave grounds for the impeachment of Trump for violating the Constitution.
Trump made economy better, but what he did to people is terrible. I think Palestine and Ukraine suffer the most because of Trump, but so do migrants. Trump already has highest disapproval rate so far. I think maybe up to one third of those who voted for him now regret it. He achieved some good things, but his actions are too much for many people. Presenting himself as pope was probably the biggest insult he ever did to his faith, even tho there were many others. I dont think even his supporters really thought he was like this. Now they follow him just so that they wouldnt have to admit being wrong. I dont think reducing inflation by 2% is even worth all this. He made wars worse for many.
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@FishChaser
try to avoid porn as it can fuck up your brain pretty bad
I think porn is bad too. Mainly because I feel sorry for women who make it. And yeah, it leads to normalizing sexual immorality even further among teens who watch it a lot.
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@FishChaser
There are approximately a million reasons why prostitutes might have a lower life expectancy.
Yes, and each reason drives the risk up further. Prostitutes have high rates of STDs. Atheists also happen to have shorter life expectancy and more depression, they are more often immoral when it comes to sexual morality. Why would anyone even prefer a path where all evidence points to it being harmful and not any good?
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Sexual immorality also causes mental health issues, depression, suicidal thoughts, and shortens life expectancy. Its why prostitutes have much shorter life expectancy. I am sorry for every time I even implied that sexual immorality is somehow any okay.
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I still don't think being moral sexually means avoiding sex as much as possible, even in marriage when you know your spouse has no STDs and seeing pleasure as inherently evil.
I dont see pleasure as evil. But taking pleasure in something harmful is evil. In marriage, sex usually serves purpose of reproduction. In the ideal world, two people would marry and never divorce and never ever cheat. As for STDs, they can be transmitted in many ways, not just sexual way. But sexual ways, especially actions which arent normal sex, and having multiple partners, transmit it the most. In this sense, the equation is very simple: more sexual immorality, higher risk of diseases. The main moral issue here is that person hurts others directly. And it makes life more difficult. So usually, sex outside reproduction has no purpose. Maybe if it was in marriage without divorce, it would be much less harmful. But even then, it is risky. Herpes on lips is common result of oral sex, but it can then spread from lips to anyone non-sexually too.
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@FishChaser
Also this "revelation" you had about sex being bad is just faulty catholic ethos getting to your head, sex can be done safely and responsibly within the context of marriage even if reproduction isn't the goal and masturbation isn't inherently immoral.
I have to do more research on masturbation, but as for sexual activities, sexual immorality is very harmful. I actually didnt understood how harmful it is. If it wasnt for modern medicine, diseases caused by sexual immorality would create hell on Earth worse than plague itself. The specific thing which makes these so dangerous is that many cannot be cured ever. Once you get them, you have them forever. Modern medicine only makes these diseases easier to live with. It cannot cure them, and they can still spread a lot. There are countries where 70% of people have STD, and that just shows what can happen when sexual immorality takes greater hold. Countries with least STD are those with least sexual immorality.
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@zedvictor4
No GOD necessary
For me, some faith is necessary.
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@AdaptableRatman
Which other religion?
Polytheism and witchcraft religions. Its been with me for long.
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@AdaptableRatman
He is very real and all can be forgiven but please go Catholic, not any other sect.
I guess I can try, but I cant abandon my other religion which also led me this far.
Sola scriptura is dangerous especially for vulnerable people like you
I guess. Misinterpretations happen.
First tell me do you know what Rosary is?
Google search says its Catholic prayer.
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I have spent past 2 years on site, and while we did have some funny moments, I understand that I went too far a lot.
I made many disturbing comments and topics here, even insulted moderator for not allowing even more. I used to justify all with free speech. But truth is, it was unfair towards others. People come on this site not for shock. They come to debate. My actions didnt make the site better for others. I was selfish and only saw myself there. I thought others need to change, not me. However, I am the one who needs to change. My actions didnt improve anything for 2 years. Free speech shouldnt even be about disturbing topics. It should be about making everything else better. I was praying to Gods and knowledge was revealed to me which led to this change. I didnt expect it to lead me here. I didnt even ask for this change then. It just happened somehow. I realized that I was not thinking right. I realized it was all leading to nowhere.
Consider this my apology to you. You dont have to accept it if you dont want. Just know that you were right and I was wrong.
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And pls stop such profile pics. It is not cool or good
Alright then. I have changed it to something more comfortable.
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@zedvictor4
Herpes is a common virus, not necessarily an STD
It cant be cured.
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@Savant
Best =/= only. Just because it's the best purpose doesn't mean it's the only purpose
It means it should be, probably. And the other purpose is also often self contradicting.
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You can still be saved. You need to genuinely want it.Let him in, Holy Spirit that is, not Satan. Accept Christ. Pray to Father too to actively protect you from Satanic influence during your conversion (he likely will not entirely, Satan always comes for new converts severely in some way).You are being tested. Accept it. Pass the test! Fail. Repent. Try again. That is the nonstop journey. ✝️
Thank you for inspiration, but I need to think about it now. This was all too much for me in a short time.
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@Savant
My argument was that sex can only have 2 basic purposes, and one is a lot better than the other. The other is pure harm.
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"You know the commandments: ‘You shall not commit adultery, you shall not murder, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, honor your father and mother"
The commandment about adultery was always the one I disagreed with the most because adultery was defined even by mere lust for a woman. But I cant deny that sexual immorality results from adultery.
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I am so dedicated to the faith you cannot really imagine it.
It is a good faith. My knowledge did lead me to conclusion that Christianity is right in many ways. Its strange given that I am not Christian, that I even get such knowledge. How does one pray to Satan for more knowledge, and somehow gets knowledge which proves Christianity right in many ways? I mean, I didnt expect that.
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You can be celibate and lead a very fulfilling life
Very true. There are many other sources for fulfillment than sexual immorality. I dont think sexual immorality even gives fulfillment. Even masturbation is much better than giving and receiving diseases. Does Christianity oppose masturbation? I get different views on that.
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Christians and muslims were right about sexual immorality. I hate to admit, but it is true.
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