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@Tarik
I’m sure you would judge someone that killed all your loved ones and got away with it. There can’t be injustice if there’s no such thing as justice.
Yes, that would be injustice by my standards.
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@ebuc
Degrees of crazy. 1 - 10 Trumpet is 5 overall. Some of his Trumpteers --Michigan dumb boys--- 6.5 - 8.
I think it's more like Trump 9.0, dumb boys 8.0.
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@Tarik
Then how do you appraise justice? What do you draw from?
I draw from my experience, from reading, and from thinking, all of which are subjective. And from the law, interpretations of the law, and the opinions of others. It's all very ad hoc, and I can't say that it's the best way to go about it. I do not believe in a completely objective justice, one which would apply equally well to all times and places. Again, that's why we have judges.
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@TWS1405_2
You're welcome. I'll try to come back with some arguments or info.
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@Tarik
I don't. I think we are using objective in two different senses.
To me, objective is not letting my feelings influence me.
Another sense is something not subject to anyone's influence. That is, objective in all times and places. I don't believe in that one.
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@Tarik
I get it as not letting my personal feelings influence my appraisal of what is just.
Getting back to my original point, we are all fallible. That's why we need judges and juries.
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@oromagi
I'm for standing up for democracy, and I'm also for following the rules of wherever you are.
After a warning, I would have taken the protest outside the House chamber.
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@TWS1405_2
I watched it. Wheeler is long on accusations and short on sources. She knows how to make a good presentation. I don't get how she makes the connection between BLM / queer theory and marxism. I read about her online and found that she had been accused of lying many times. I guess I will have to consult more sources to figure her out.
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@PREZ-HILTON
I just watched it, and sad to say, it looks like you are right. Unless that was a deep fake, he is losing it. I am not happy about this.
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@PREZ-HILTON
I guess I will have to watch him more closely now to see whether I agree with you. I'll let you know.
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@Tarik
That idea can only be communicated through objectivity.
I don't understand that. Can you elaborate?
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@PREZ-HILTON
I disagree about Biden. I think he is normal for his age and making decisions on his own. If you listen to him speak, he doesn't sound weird (at least, to me).
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@PREZ-HILTON
That's a good way to put it. I trust the gov't. most of the time, but not certain politicians. I think I have a fairly open mind, but I have to say that I am biased against Trump. On the other hand, I trust Biden. I don't agree with everything Biden does. I do agree with one or two things Trump did, like moving the US embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. So I try to think for myself most of the time.
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@PREZ-HILTON
What do you think of the quote about keeping up curfews in place to harm Trump's reelection chances. By one democratic politician?
I didn't hear about that. If it's true, I would be against it, Democrat or not.
Also how would a republican fighting against the government having more power through mandates be using the pandemic as an excuse for the government to make power grabs?
They wouldn't be. I was referring to politicians trying to appeal to anti-maskers to further their own lust for power. As we saw in the Fox News saga, some people were were feeding right-wingers things they themselves didn't believe, just to increase their own popularity. Left-wingers are not above doing that themselves. I just think that it happens a lot more on the right.
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@PREZ-HILTON
If you mean the pro-mask politicians, I think not. I'm more inclined to believe that some anti-mask politicians were grabbing for power.
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@FLRW
And denying trans women access to women's sports by itself should not mean that I don't support trans people in other ways. I can say use whatever gender name you want, don't discriminate in other ways against trans people, etc. It's just in this one case that I disagree with you. None of us gets everything we want.
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@PREZ-HILTON
Can you create any law and say it is in the name of "public health" and it be considered fair?
No, of course not. In my opinion requiring masks when Covid 19 was raging was reasonable to prevent contagion. It certainly did not rise to the level of tyranny. To me tyranny means arbitrary rules that serve no social purpose. A million US residents died of Covid 19. Toward the end of the epidemic, the unvaccinated made up a large majority of deaths. That should have killed the vaccination debate, but it didn't. We didn't have this problem when vaccinating against tuberculosis, nor again when vaccinating against polio. Something has changed and it's not for the better.
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@Best.Korea
levels of abominations
That's a good one! I haven't heard that one before. Everything should be made as complex as possible to make it harder to refute Christians.
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@Stephen
I think most people are abominations for one reason or another according to the Bible. It's hard to stay right with God without a savior, right?
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@Stephen
I'm liberal on most issues, but not on this one. Why not have a third sports category open to anyone without discrimination and get trans women out of women's sports?
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@badger
Isn't it obvious? Requiring people to wear masks in the name of public health is tyranny. That is what I heard from some people in my state.
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@Tarik
It would be an approximation of justiceBut in order to know that you’ll also have to know what actual justice looks like.
I have an idea about justice. It works most of the time. We are all in the same boat, otherwise we would not need judges.
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@Tarik
I don't think I could prove it. Since it would be a human product, it would be imperfect. It would be an approximation of justice, which is the best we could expect from a human-created system.
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@Tarik
I believe that it's possible to create justice in a human legal system. I don't believe in objective justice.
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@Tarik
That doesn’t sound like someone that’s come to terms with there mortality.
I think I have. I know that I will die and that will be the end of me. I must accept that because it's reality to me. I wish it were otherwise, but I know it's not, and I accept that. It's just the way life works. I don't gripe about it, I don't follow the science of aging, etc. I see people around me dying all the time (I'm almost 80 now and live in a senior development) and I know that my time is near ... nearer at least than ever before in my life. My partner knows that, my kids know that, my grandkids--who knows? You get the idea. Things could be a lot worse. I consider myself lucky to have lived when I did and where (the USA). Most people in the world are not so fortunate.
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@Tarik
wouldn’t you like for there to one?
What I would like is to not die.
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@Tarik
happiness not lasting forever is sad.
It's sad only if you think it's possible for happiness to last forever.
I know there is nothing more. Of course you won't be disappointed because you will be dead. In the meantime, people who believe in the next life will not appreciate this life as much (I believe). I have seen the smug faces of xian believers who think that they are going to heaven and I'm not. If that's what it takes for you to get through this life, then so be it. I don't have a problem with knowing that this life is all there is. I have come to terms with my mortality. Good luck to you.
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@Greyparrot
I'm not immune to freakout exaggeration. Color me human.
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@PREZ-HILTON
I think you confused me with Sidewalker,
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@ebuc
Trump is at the intersection of the crazies and the fascists. He could still win an election. It's up to the rest of us to stop him, BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY!
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@Tarik
But none of those things can be enjoyed forever (at least from your perspective) does believing that make you sad? Does that sadness overwhelm the joy?
No and no. Forever is not part of my world. If it's part of yours, you have been duped.
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@PREZ-HILTON
Ah, yes. The big bad Jews are coming for you. You better watch out. And the blacks ... OMG!!
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@ADreamOfLiberty
That's a very Pavlovian view. Stimulus/response.
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@Tarik
what about life is enjoyable?
Eating, sleeping, sex, beholding the stars & the ocean & the mountains, art, learning, loving. So many things.
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@Tarik
I did. I enjoy life. I want to live because I enjoy it. Also because my natural drives are aligned that way.
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@Tarik
I thought that might be where you were going.
I don't buy it.
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@Tarik
Like I said: Living beings automatically try to stay alive. You know this, so where are you going with this?
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@Tarik
Says everyone. All life forms automatically try to stay alive. We breathe without even thinking about it.
The small number who suicide are defective in some way.
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@Tarik
I live for many things. I enjoy life. Besides, as a living being, trying to stay alive is built in. It's natural.
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@Tarik
Because I want to live. If lawlessness pervades society, I would spend more of my energy avoiding bad guys than I would otherwise.
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@Tarik
Then I don't have to constantly worry that someone might kill or rob me for starters.
I know that law abidance is breaking down in my country (USA) and that makes me more fearful to go places outside my home.
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@Tarik
I think it leads to a more productive and satisfying life (and I value those two things).
It makes my life more predictable, and thus easier to go about my business.
It fits my personality of live and let live.
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@Kaitlyn
Republicans think that giving money to rich people causes them to work more, and giving money to poor people causes them to work less.
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@YouFound_Lxam
The very fact that people can have discussions and debates about what is right and wrong indicates that they are appealing to some standard of morality.
That's true. My standard is the laws of the USA.
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@Tarik
Who said societies have to “work” anyway? What authority do you have to make that assertion?
They don't "have to" and in fact some don't. I assume that most people prefer others to be law abiding, that laws to be applied equally, that they are free to go about their business without too much interference, and so on.
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@YouFound_Lxam
Local customs and laws can be influenced by objective moral principles
Yes, if there are any.
Going back to the beginning,
If morality were subjective, then we would have no way of resolving moral arguments. We could not say that anything is truly right or wrong, good or evil. We would have no basis for judging the actions of others or making moral decisions ourselves. [my emphasis]
Where do you get the "truly"?
If morality were subjective, then that would be that. Their morality would be true for any society that has customs and laws. Those laws differ from time to time and place to place.
In ancient Greece, people thought it was okay to expose deformed babies to the elements. We now think that was wrong.
In the USA today, most people think it's okay to kill a human embryo. Many in this country think it is wrong. Opinion has gone back and forth on this issue. Maybe we will hash it out someday, then the result will be our morality.
Some societies believe it is wrong to smoke marijuana and severely punish people who do it. Where is your objective morality on this issue?
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@YouFound_Lxam
The fact that local customs or laws may work to resolve moral arguments in a society or culture does not mean that they are morally right.
Aren't you assuming here that there is an objective morality?
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