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Drafter, your absurd semantic griping notwithstanding, the thread was always about moderation. You're bullshitting here, and you know it.
The thread was created in response to accusations that Mike and I were dishonest and acting inappropriately, going to my credibility and integrity as a mod. The concerns raised by the thread was serious, if specious, and the AMA was a space were those concerns could be disambiguated and address. Pretty much everyone interpreted and used the thread in that way, making it impossible to believe that you could interpret it any other way.
The thread was always about mod integrity, which similarly made it about "my relationship with Mike, my past on DDO, my political and other beliefs, and any questions related to me as a person," inasmuch as moderation's integrity was called into question over these issues. From the outset, I was clear that the thread was attempting to address the concerns about moderation raised by Ethang.
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Clearly the thread was related to moderation credibility and integrity (not moderation policy). I was refusing to answer questions of moderation policy, not questions about moderator integrity, credibility, etc. The thread was clearly moderation-related.
You really should stop throwing hissy fits over nothing.
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Drafter, this thread is moderation-related. I think you know that. You're griping just to gripe...
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This AMA is now closed for questions. It will be switched to read only shortly.
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@David
Why does Virtuoso's profile say Israel, but bsh1 (and Wylted, apparently) claim he lives in the U.S.?
Virt is best placed to answer that, but maybe because he is Jewish? Lots of people on DDO would list countries that they didn't actually live in. I think moderators should probably list their actual places of residence if they choose to list any.
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@Vaarka
I like it, but occasionally the instrumentals were a bit harsh.
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So tall and blonde? I hope you are not handsome guy with blue eyes, I hate you damned arians, you make it impossible for other guys to compete lol
I do have blue eyes, lol. But I'm gay, so if you're straight, I'm not exactly competing in the same market...
This one is on you, you Americans just had to come up with everything different from the outside world haha
Lol.
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I will leave this AMA open for another 20-ish hours. I will probably switch it to read-only shortly thereafter.
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God, I hate metric.
If there were a referendum on metric vs. imperial, I would vote imperial all the way. Why? Because I am American and we measure things in feet goddamnit.
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@DebateArt.com
About 6 feet (google says that 184cm). Blonde. No abs, but then, bottoms don't really need them quite as much.
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@DebateArt.com
Since I flirt with everyone, how tall are you? What color is your hair? Do you have abs?
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Stubborn, hard-headed and denies everything.
More like honest, firm, and direct.
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In light of the revalation that the site owner is located in Russia and the domain name is also registered there, this hardly seems like a glowing endorsement.
I am not going to condemn Mike simply because he is Russian. There are many good Russians, and many good Russians on the internet. Everything I know of Mike suggests he is a good person, and until something more than very loosely substantiated conjecture is offered, I will continue to give greater credence to what I know over what is being speculated.
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@thett3
There’s no “implication” to the question, I’m just trying to establish a timeline
I meant only that your question seemed to suggest that Mike had approached me, and I wanted to disambiguate how things actually played out.
here’s a question for your ama: do you find it at all suspicious that this domain was registered less than a month after the initial spam attack, which at that point was still somewhat contained?
Honestly, I don't know what to make of it. I think that Mike has always been open and honest about being Russian speaks well for his credibility. But, the site had also long been on decline before the spampocalypse hit. I need to hear Mike's explanation. I am entirely not technical, so these kinds of questions were not really on my mind when I first joined.
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Raltar:
When did Tejretrics get appointed to a moderator position and what justification was offered for his appointment?
Tej was appointed shortly after Virt and I were appointed, and, if memory serves, he was announced in the thread I linked earlier. He was an obvious choice for such a position--he is widely regarded as a competent voter and he is intelligent and of high integrity.
What justification was given for selecting Castin as a moderator? Did it go any further than "people like her?"
She was, of course, widely respected. She was also engaged with site issues, was impartial and not overly deferential, and could likely muster a consensus of support for her modship.
What countries do all of the above named people live in (bsh1, Virtuoso, Tejretrics, Castin and the site owner)?
I live in the US, as, I think, do Virt and Castin. Tej lives in India. I have lived abroad before, but most of my life has been spent on the US East Coast.
Is "Mike" the real name of the site owner, or was that just a conveniently selected pseudonym?
I assumed it to be an Americanized nickname for Mikhail, but only Mike can answer that.
What connection, if any, does this site have with Russia? If none, then why is the domain name registered through a Russian service?Why is the history of this site so vague? Why doesn't anyone seem to know the exact dates on which significant events took place, such as certain moderators being appointed or when the site first went online?
All moderation appointments were publicly announced within a few days or less of the appointments being agreed upon. The notion that no one knows when these appointments took place is false. As for the rest, Mike is going to have to answer those questions.
Is it purely a coincidence that none of the moderators are Christians, politically conservative or located in the U.S.?
Castin's profile says she is atheist (which I did not know until now), and, of course, a moderator position was offered to LM. I am agnostic, Virt is Jewish, and Castin is Atheist. We have then someone in the Theist and Atheist camps, as well as someone (me) who is in neither, which seems reasonably diverse to me. I am located in the US, as are (I believe) Castin and Virt--meaning that the majority of moderators are in the US. As for conservatism, again, LM was offered the position. But, honestly, diversity of political and religious views is not something I select for in looking for assistant moderators; I want someone who will fairly enforce site policy, irrespective of their political and religious perspectives.
Is it a coincidence that the site owner and all but one of the moderators are atheists?
I am neither an atheist nor a theist. I believe that it is irrational to believe in God AND that it is irrational to not believe in God. The only rational response to the question of God's existence, IMO, is to suspend belief, i.e. to say "I don't know and I can't know."
What justification is offered for bsh1's refusal to step down from his position?
That I see no compelling reason to step down.
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Raltar:
When did bsh1 get appointed to the head moderator position and what was his prior association with the site owner?
There was an announcement thread posted indicating that Virt and I would be the moderation team. We were informally appointed a few days before that.
When did Virtuoso get appointed to a moderator position and what was his prior association with bsh1?
I cannot speak to Virt's appointment--Mike will have to answer that if he wants. I had some interactions with Virt on DDO, but we were not esp. close.
I am running out of time to answer the other questions--I have something with family at 3:30. I will answer the rest later today.
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@Logical-Master
LM was offered the position of an assistant moderator for forums.
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@thett3
To your knowledge, what’s the origin story of DART? Specifically, when did the design work begin. When did you first hear about it? When did mike first approach you about becoming mod?
I don't have any unique information about DART's origin story that is not already in the public domain. The first discussion I had with Mike about my potential modship occurred at 08.31.2018 11:06PM. In the spirit of total openness, and contrary to the implication of your question, I approached Mike, not the other way around. I did that after I tried and failed to convince another user to apply for the job.
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@thett3
@Wylted
@Plisken
If you were secret gay lovers with mike would you betray his love for you by outting the secret relationship?
I am not going to answer entrapping hypotheticals. I never new Mike before DART.
What country are you from?
I am a native-born American.
Tbh dart is extremely suspicious, I don’t think it’s a vast Russian conspiracy but I don’t buy the “official” narrative about its founding either
I'll be honest: I like and respect Mike as I know him. But neither would I want him to know my real name. Everything Russian is suspect to some degree nowadays.
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@Wylted
Have you ever heard of the barbara streisand effect?
Yes.
Bsh1 are you or have you ever engaged in a romantic relationship with mike prior to or after joining DART
No. I did not know Mike before coming to DART, contra Ethang.
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@Wylted
The attempted doxxing put it on a higher order of severity, as explained elsewhere.
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@drafterman
Or what?
I will not be baited into threatening you.
It doesn't permit anything constructive to be done within it.
Then your thinking is short-sighted and clouded by anger.
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@drafterman
I think you need to calm down, back off, and let me do my job. You have nothing constructive to say and nothing productive to add. You gripe just to gripe. Moderation could be flawless, yet you'd throw a shitstorm. You are the self-admitted Grinch of the site, taking cheap shots just to take cheap shots. I am not resigning, and, as far as I am concerned, that's the bottom line. Either have something constructive to say within the existing framework, or consider taking a cue from Bjork.
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@drafterman
It was at first deleted given the attempted doxxing. I am likely to delete it again for the same reason, but I am taking time to consult with the moderation team as a whole on this question. In the interim, it will remain locked.
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@drafterman
The post constitutes a call-out thread against Mike. The published attempt to doxx other users and to slander Mike indicates that the thread is a call-out thread, and requires the thread be locked.
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@RationalMadman
If the distinction is the one expressed here, then social democracy.
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Drafter, I explain why I felt this thread was necessary in the OP. It was unplanned, and, tbh, reflects the fact that I am shaken that people would believe any of the crap Ethang included in that post.
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Right now, that is why moderation uses the warning system. By issuing warnings, we ensure that further misconduct is knowing. However, I am interested in what other's think about Ram's idea. It's an idea worth exploring.
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Given the recent thread by Ethang, I thought it would be only responsible for me to open myself up to user questions. It should be clear that I categorically deny the allegations that Ethang made. For the next 48 hours, feel free to ask me here any questions related to my relationship with Mike, my past on DDO, my political and other beliefs, and any questions related to me as a person. I am not going to deal with questions related to modding here, as those are addressed on an ongoing basis as concerns arise. I reserve the right to refuse questions of a doxxing or overly personal nature.
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Yo, it's almost Christmas. Can we all cool down the controversy until after the New Year? Like, some sort of truce until Jan. 2nd?
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I report a lot of stuff that either doesn't ever got looked at (just stays flagged forever) or is eventually marked "all reports have been handled" without any apparent action having been taken.
Action may not have been deemed appropriate in some of those cases. If conduct (not votes) have been flagged for more than a few days, please reach out to a mod and notify them that the report has not been addressed.
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Unless your stance is to actually enforce the rules, I fail to see the purpose in soliciting any input via any method.
This is a reversal of your position in the first thread I linked you, where you strongly supported such a process. Moreover, by suggesting I rule by fiat, you are, at the same time, suggesting that the community have no input in the rules which govern it. The community may not have voted for the COC, but such a process gives them more input than it seems you would entitle it to have.
Moreover, the rules--as in the site's own, written COC--don't require the deletion of offensive or rules-violating conduct. The notion that I am not enforcing the rules is therefore absurd. It is precisely that this is an unanswered question which shows the value in community deliberative processes: to allow the community rather than the mods to clarify these grey areas. You would give me the power to decide grey areas unilaterally, which shows your own hypocrisy. You don't want community input, but you also want to have a say in how these grey areas are policed.
Your arguments here a literally absurd. This bitching against deliberation just seems like sour grapes after you didn't get your way on the MEEP process and your bitching against deleting threads, which you did, strikes me as similar. Calm down and participate in the MEEP process when it's held after Christmas (probs early January).
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comment sections dissolve into borderline psychotic hissy-fits
Comments are the most unreported category of reportable things. It would be great if more people reported comments so that mods can deal with them. Mods can't moderate what they can't see.
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Yes, I think the stupid process I called out as stupid and have repeatedly referred to as an abomination and voted against should be eliminated. Shocker, I know
Should any and all deliberative processes (even a majority vote process) that allow the community to have a say in how the COC is enforced and/or interpreted be eliminated?
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@Drafter
You are calling here then for the elimination of MEEPs. Correct or not?
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Let me repeat:
The only official policy is the written CoC, which says your job is to enforce the rules.
Previous referenda have indicated that policy is not simply the COC, but any rule or mechanism by which moderators operate in their capacity as moderators. Given this precedent, moderation "policy" will continue to refer to more than just the COC, unless the site decides to allow mods to exempt these other issues.
To be clear, however, deleting threads and posts is not "policy" in the way you are defining it, since nowhere in the COC does it require deletion of content which violates the COC.
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You should enforce the CoC. Period. if you don't want to do that because it upsets people. Step down.
You are calling here then for the elimination of MEEPs. Correct or not?
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Your job isn't people pleaser, it's moderation.
So I should rule by fiat and eliminate any deliberative-style process, like MEEP or even a majority-vote discussion? Good to know.
Its status as violating the rules remains unchanged. If such posts are harmless, then they shouldn't be against the CoC.
Seems like you missed the point again. I'll repeat: "It's not causing any more harm just sitting there than it did when Castin read it, unlike a post which doxxes or includes a link to a pornographic website, for example." There is certainly an initial harm in the post being created; there does not seem to be an ongoing harm in leaving the post up.
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It's kept here not because it was fine but as "evidence" because bsh1 now imagines him as being in an episode of CSI or some shit.
I don't believe I ever said that. I don't delete posts because I am not in the business of censoring people, because it has been indicated to me that that was not what the community desired, and because the poster was punished--there doesn't seem to be much to gain from deleting the post. It's not causing anymore harm just sitting there than it did when Castin read it, unlike a post which doxxes or includes a link to a pornographic website, for example. Though, preserving evidence is certainly an advantage, unless and until moderation has the power to shadow delete a post.
But, again, because this issue has been raised, it will be MEEP'd.
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@drafterman
The only official policy is the written CoC, which says your job is to enforce the rules.
Previous referenda have indicated that policy is not simply the COC, but any rule or mechanism by which moderators operate in their capacity as moderators. Given this precedent, moderation "policy" will continue to refer to more than just the COC, unless the site decides to allow mods to exempt these other issues.
To be clear, however, deleting threads and posts is not "policy" in the way you are defining it, since nowhere in the COC does it require deletion of content which violates the COC.
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This question was already on moderation's list of topics which must be MEEP'd.
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There will, given the interest in this topic, be a MEEP process on this question of thread deletion and post deletion.
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You don't need a MEEP process to start moderating. You just need to start fucking doing it.
Doing what you ask here would constitute a change in current moderation policy, which would necessitate a MEEP. This condition of changing policy was something you strongly advocated for several times, including in that first link.
The scope of the question in the first link was more than just CoC violating posts, at least by how I interpreted the wording.
Then you could have easily cast a qualified vote, as some others did. Plus, it's impossible to believe that that was your actual interpretation of the question. If you really believed the scope was wider, you would have read that question as "should moderation lock or delete posts it dislikes," in which case you would have thrown a bitchfest over that dichotomy, which you didn't. Instead you were "ambivalent."
As far as the second link, it was an easy shot to make
Yeah, we all know you're just here to take cheap shots.
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Tough shit. What do you want to do, please people, or mod? You volunteered to mod. SO MOD.
Again, this strikes me as a reversal of opinion. When I deleted posts in the past that contained words like tranny and faggot--both considered slurs, and one used to insult another user--you responded by mocking moderation for going overboard and being too heavy handed. Where was the concern for deleting "directed harassment" then?
Tbh, this just feels like you bitching just to bitch. I am happy to start a MEEP process about it after Christmas if you would like (since three people have now raised the issue)--there are a slate of questions that need to be posed at that time--but color me skeptical about the genuineness of these complaints.
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