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@Greyparrot
You ask the impossible.
I realized that ever since I thought I might find a dialectic here…
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@Greyparrot
@Best.Korea
Being average white person is easy.
I beg to differ— nothin’ easy about this:
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@FLRW
You only mentioned Trump once in two complete sentences. I was looking for something like: “Trump trumped the trumpy Trump.”
Think of the spam sketch from Monty Python.
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@FLRW
And he kept a book of Hitler’s best speeches on his nightstand! Ergo, Trump denies the Holocaust!
Now, see if you can construct a complete sentence using “Trump” as subject, verb, adjective, and object.
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@FLRW
I’m sure you know who the first Holocaust deniers were. They kept Hitler’s best speeches in a book on their nightstand.
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@Best.Korea
my claim was just an assumption
Yes, I’m well aware…
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@Best.Korea
I think majority of those who support Palestine would never say that what Hamas did was right.
Perhaps you are correct, given your carefully worded claim, if taken absolutely verbatim, that the majority of supporters do not say that they believe October 7 was right. No, they tend to use words such as “sympathize with” or “support.”
Of course, one must also account for all the supporters who believe that October 7 was a false flag operation masterminded by the Mossad…
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@Greyparrot
Imagine jailing the president in an election year using an obscure legal tactic only used .01% of the time for regular people....
The way I figure it, there seem to be generally four responses to this verdict:
A. You are gratified that Trump has FINALLY been convicted of… something or other.
B. You are mortified that a POTUS candidate is actually a convicted felon.
C. You have never seen a public figure so singled out and targeted by a legal system in these United States in your life.
D. You don’t really give two shits about this case over an obscure crime 7 years ago. Either way, your groceries cost too much, your favorite store has shut its doors… and you’ve just been carjacked.
With the exception of A, these don’t necessarily determine a decisive vote either way. Going forward, Trump needs not to play the victim and just confidently claim that he will beat the rap on appeal, while Biden should just focus on making clear his platform for his second term.
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@Castin
I wanna know why I'm doomed to get eaten by carrots in the next life
Yes, there are two paths you can go by, but in the long run
There’s still time to change the road you’re on…
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If you don’t like Biden, that shouldn’t stop you from voting for him because you will eventually have President Harris.
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@Greyparrot
Yes, he appears to be anti Trump yet not afflicted with TDS. A rare individual much like yourself!
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@Greyparrot
The constant smirk on the middle dude’s face is hilarious.
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@JoeBob
Yes, he blames them for FDR’s untimely death.
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I’d do Anna Paulina Luna. I mean… with a gun to my head, of course. Anybody got a gun? And wanna put it to my head and make me do that?
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@Sidewalker
Anybody want to bet Mall is single?
I would bet that BK completes Mall.
Much like:
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@JoeBob
When is he not [trying to be funny]?
Exactly.
All they care about is whats funny
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@3RU7AL
everything is a negotiation
I’ve actually read Chris Voss’ book. But it is one of those that must be read, practiced, reread, practiced, and so forth…
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@Greyparrot
Ah, self parody— one of the best kinds.
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@3RU7AL
I might just check it out. If it’s any good, I would consider that… a win/win.
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@3RU7AL
Ok, but it requires a login account to access. And that is merely a single example. As I said earlier, I also know of a single example.
Tell me: is that place… better than here? I surely hope so!
Your glaring contradiction aside, what you appear to advocate isn’t so much a “debate” (implying win/lose or tie) as a dialectic (implying win/win or lose/lose), which would… be great! True dialectics are precious few though (sort of like good debates here, as I said earlier)…
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@3RU7AL
“Yet Type1 won that debate even after failing to convince you. How confusing! I take it, then, that your above framework is not exactly the case?”
i was referencing the second scenario"and it is possible for both sides to win (both sides learn something valuable)"
Ok, and that sounds good and all; I truly like the spirit of it… but I neglected to ask you this at the time:
How do you reconcile it with your claim (you even put it in bold!) which you have stated twice, AND which constituted your rebuttal to me:
persuading an audience is an entertaining metric, but it does tend to favor ad hominem attacksi try to relate debate skill to real-life one-on-one communicationif you fail to convince the person you disagree withyour argument has failed and you have lost the debate
Lastly, I was actually asking for an example of where an opponent was actually convinced, which I have contended all along constitutes a rarity, and you have been taking exception to it… with insufficient evidence thus far.
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@3RU7AL
“So in conclusion, Type1 succeeded in convincing you that science IS objective?”
not exactly
Well, you started off by making this claim… exactly:
the only way to win a debateis to CONVINCE your opponent
Which you even reiterated in a post to me:
if you fail to convince the person you disagree withyour argument has failed and you have lost the debate
Yet Type1 won that debate even after failing to convince you. How confusing! I take it, then, that your above framework is not exactly the case?
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@Greyparrot
Because there exists a law where you do not have to be charged for an underlying crime to be found guilty.6th Amendment strictly prohibits this.
Looks like plenty of grounds for appeal. This, from a WSJ column:
All nine justices in Schad, then, believed unanimity is required to convict when the means by which a crime can be committed are so broad that the accused doesn’t receive fair notice of the basis of the charge. New York’s election law requires that the violation occur “by unlawful means,” so any “unlawful” act—including, in Scalia’s example, either robbery of failure to file a tax return—can qualify. That’s clearly overbroad. Thus, Judge Merchan’s instruction that the jury “need not be unanimous as to what those unlawful means were” was unconstitutional.
So, either the underlying crimes required unanimity among the jurors, OR the defense was entitled to prior full disclosure of what those underlying crimes were in order to mount a defense. Neither occurred.
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@3RU7AL
So in conclusion, Type1 succeeded in convincing you that science IS objective?
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@3RU7AL
well, it's easy for both sides to lose (both sides remain unconvinced)and it is possible for both sides to win (both sides learn something valuable)
Ah, I see. Well, I have seen far, far more (around 99+%) of the former than the latter.
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@Best.Korea
How many times have you successfully convinced your interlocutor?
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@3RU7AL
So, as long as one refuses to be convinced, one can always win.
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@Mall
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@3RU7AL
the only way to win a debateis to CONVINCE your opponent
I’ve actually only witnessed that once, and it was over a pretty obscure and esoteric subject. More realistically, I think the best metric for winning is who persuaded the bigger percentage of the audience. Intelligence Squared uses this standard, and I think it’s great.
Meanwhile, here at debateart.com, I see people winning most often via forfeit or finding and exploiting a semantic loophole. Or sometimes a judge brings his own argument into play and claims the loser failed to address that issue which never came up in the actual debate.
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@Best.Korea
Yes, the similarities between Jesus and Trump are uncanny:
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@Best.Korea
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@IlDiavolo
The extra votes take a lot of time to manifest— usually via US born children of immigrants. What happens more quickly is greater representation in congress according to population size.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
it is an objective fact that the 14th amendment makes executive branch nullification completely illegal
Could you lay out that argument, please? I don’t believe it is known as “nullification” but rather “prosecutorial discretion.”
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@Greyparrot
The executive branch is responsible for the enforcement of our nation’s laws… or non enforcement as the case may be… sometimes even finding creative ways around them (usually via emergency powers).
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@Greyparrot
Squatter’s rights!
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@Greyparrot
If Trump goes to jail, he could be like Mandela!
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@TheUnderdog
I am courious as to what the GOP consistently stands for.
Sorry, but you do not show curiosity about this subject at all. With that, I have your decision. I will leave you with this dandy article:
“What Is Intellectual Curiosity? Definition and Importance”
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@TheUnderdog
Changing America is not exclusively a left wing thing.
I didn’t say it was. You need to stop translating everything I say into binary absolutes.
These are synonyms. If I ask you to what is a woman (to you, it’s chromosomes), then it would be the same thing as asking for a definition of a woman.
Wow— we cannot even agree on this! If you wish only to distill political party membership to precise, inviolable definitions, then I’m out. If you are willing to be more reasonable and more intellectually curious, then I am still in.
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@TheUnderdog
Democrats have their things that they are proud of America for.
Sure, it’s just that the current trend is for Democrats to emphasize areas of shame as opposed to pride. People on the left tend to like America most for how they are able to change it.
I wouldn't say closed off; I would say more that if that's your definition, then it's not a good one.
Hmm… well, your apparent contradiction from one sentence to the next not withstanding, I never claimed it is a definition. You are the only individual I have seen attempting to shoehorn political party memberships into mathematically precise boxes— any exception (whether real or, more likely in your case, imagined) disproves the claim! It’s bizarre. Anyway, your thread title is “What is a Republican?” not “Define a Republican.” So, I gave a generalization of how a typical, contemporary Republican differs from a typical, contemporary Democrat. I have more, too, when you are ready.
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For a laugh, read the New York Times’s supposedly searching account of the Justice Department’s decision to pursue Mr. Trump for Jan. 6 crimes. After failing to find the expected financial or other ties between the Trump circle and Jan. 6 rioters, “the department’s leadership had no alternative but to steer the investigation into choppy, uncharted waters: They shifted focus to election fraud.”
Notice the words “had no alternative.” Actually the department had an alternative, which any agency has when an investigation doesn’t pan out: End the investigation.
“Trump’s Conviction and Biden’s Worst Decision” - WSJ
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@TheUnderdog
Like what?
Exactly. Non Republicans have a hard time coming up with examples of things to be proud of.
Edit: I even made a reference to this pride in America in post 4. You seem very closed off to the answers I provide to your questions.
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@Greyparrot
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@Greyparrot
No hard feelings after almost 200 years, I guess…
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@Greyparrot
A number of US citizens emigrated to Canada to help England in the Battle of Britain. They were known as the Eagle Squadron.
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@Greyparrot
JFK said, “Ich bin ein Berliner.” I don’t see those sorts of things as a renunciation of loyalty to the US.
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@TheUnderdog
Well, I guess the ethos I have observed in the GOP as it currently stands is: “Despite its flaws currently and historically, there is much to be proud of in America.”
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