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Oh, and congrats to the scum-team, decent play from them all around. I thought Speed played pretty well on the town side, last DP notwithstanding.
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@Vader
If you want to do a closed setup game with non-standard/custom roles in it you can only explain or clarify how those roles work to the players who got them, in their own role PM and not in the game thread. If a player asks you how a unique role works another player has claimed, you can't just answer them. Your knowledge (or lack of one) of the mechanics of a unique role would either confirm or deny the existence of it, thus confirming whether the player in question has lied about their role. And determining that is the other players' job, not yours.
I suppose the fact that your "standard" roles don't necessarily work the way they are supposed to might also be a cause for misunderstandings. (e.g.: Janitor was whack) Maybe you can ask someone to ckeck/help with your setup next time.
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@drafterman
Yes, it would.
Gotcha.
I'm also interested in what people feel about the "visiting" thing.Basically, I explicitly write in a role PM whether it "visits" in order to perform its action (e.g. Angel and Watcher don't; Tailor and Redirector do; etc.)
I think it's always a good thing when it's transparent to players how "standard" roles work and interact with each other. I also like how you provide the formatting of the result-messages to players in the google doc.
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@Lunatic
ty trekie, you should play sometime
I plan to when I have a less busy schedule. I was mostly just skimming this one, but I remember the Nusrse claim was sus for me because I would have waived the night kill on N1 too. :)
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@Lunatic
I know you were asking drafter, but I think it would so long as I wasn't targeted by them first. Mafia night kill usually takes precedence over town actions.
Yeah, I was just wondering, sometimes roleblocks don't effect mafia faction kills, depends on the mod/setup. Anyway, congrats on the win.
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@drafterman
Would a Nurse's side-effect roleblock actually block the mafia kill if Lunatic was for real?
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@SirAnonymous
I'm not ignoring that. That was before they were tunneling.
I think I just don't understand by what metric you measure their play against each other then. And to be clear, I'm not saying that TUF was shit, I'm just disagreeing about Wylted and Drafter playing worse than him.
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@SirAnonymous
Tunneling isn't neutral. Players need to consider more than one possibility
There was one scum left in the game at that point. What were they supposed to do? Not try to lynch their strongest scum read? I think not. If they had operated that way you wouldn't have gotten lynched on DP1 because it was a "weak" case. I think people like Airmax have goofed up more in that situation since they correctly town read both Drafter and Lunatic yet didn't have the capacity to present an alternative.
Also, what am I ignoring about DP1? I still think Lunatic did well after DP3. At least he didn't give up trying like many of the others did. When the going got tough, the TUF got going.
You are ignoring that Drafter and Wylted actually got scum lynched and equating TUF's heroic effort to not get mislynched with quality play. TUF is awesome and the fact that he didn't just keel over and die is impressive but I don't think it's unkind to say that his reads were really off this game and that he was ultimately more of an asset to mafia than town despite his best efforts. Speed was literally buddying up to him for this very reason.
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@drafterman
My first post was congratulating Speed. He did exceptionally well.
I know, the first part of my post for Grey only.
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@Greyparrot
@drafterman
The sheeps won this game for you, not me or Luna.
You have to give credit to Speed for reading the room though. He played the hand he was dealt, it's not like he had the greatest support behind him either. (This is not a diss on Supa and SirAnnon but clearly mistakes were made which put Speed at an early disadvantage.)
Oh, awesome. Glad to have you on board. Good luck with exams.
Thanks.
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@drafterman
You should sign up for some Mafia games here.
I enjoyed spectating this one and I was ready to be a sub if needed but I have exams coming up in a couple of weeks and some assignments due so it will probably have to wait a while.
I'm trekie from DDO by the way.
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@SirAnonymous
I can't speak for other mafia, but we bussed each other. We were all on each other's lunches (except me because I was lynched first).
To be fair, neither Speed or Supa was actually on your lynch when you died and both of them voted for AROSE when the opportunity presented itself via Lunatic. Frankly, the fact that a known scum(Supa) would have prefered to lynch AROSE over you(other known scum) on DP1 should have given town pause on any future AROSE lynch after Supa's flip.
I also don't think that drafter's trying to convince anyone that mafia would never ever bus. It's just that bussing is usually a suboptimal strategy in role heavy games, so players are going to be naturally disinclined to do it. And this is where Drafter's distinction about what constitutes as bussing is important. Sure, scum may FOS/vote for their teammate as a distancing tactic or when they realisticly have no other choice (Speed on DP2) but it's way less common for scum to purposefully go arounnd (Drafter on DP1) and actively try to convince others to lynch their teammate when there's a competing wagon on someone else.
I mean, honestly, did any of you on the scum team went into any of the DPs with the intention to lynch each other for some sweet town cred? Supa might have been willing to lynch you on DP1 at some point but I feel that was reactionary due to the votes snowballing on you. Basically the key word is context, I think.
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@drafterman
That's fair, but also feeds into it being a good move because it's something he probably would have done as Town anyway and Mafia are usually discouraged from that kind of thing. It was just splendid play all around
I agree. I wasn't trying to take anything away from Speed's play, he certainly had me fooled.
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@drafterman
Speed, you did a fantastic job, especially against those odds. I'm not sure what inspired you to quais-CC, then retract-CC against Press, but that was a rather Townie thing to do. I really don't see Scum doing that kind of thing. And to keep him a live was a very big risk, but I think doing so cast doubt onto his investigations.
I think he did that because at first he genuinely thought that PressF was baiting and lying about being a Cop. Speed knew that Mafia had a Ninja but no Godfather/Lawyer/Framer, so it makes sense even as scum to question that out-of-the-blue Cop claim. Plus, he had an awesome fake role claim with the Compulsive Visitor, I assume he had that figured out already when he quasi-CC-ed.
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