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@Mopac
If it means anything else, I helped organize a memorial service for a friend who was into that lgbt lifestyle.
Even though you'd guess that person was going to hell?
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@Mopac
We don't need the interference of a perverse and wicked government to tell us how to do what we have been for thousands of years.
Please let the government know you'd like to renounce all of the tax benefits they give you. Or start a colony someplace.
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@Mopac
No one is saying you can't prohibit women priests. Feel free. I don't really care what the reason is, because I don't recognize the authority behind the reasoning (Invisible Jesus). Not my business, and if women complain in your church about it, then they should exercise their freedom to leave your church permanently, and find someplace more inclusive, I'd encourage them to do so. But you cannot go to work in a public place and refuse to hire women because you don't think women should have equal opportunity OUTSIDE OF YOUR CHURCH.
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@Mopac
“The Equality Act would gut religious freedom protections — even the freedom currently enjoyed by houses of worship,” the letter argues.“Under its changes to the employment nondiscrimination provisions in Title VII of the Civil Rights Act, some houses of worship would be barred from ensuring their leaders and other employees abide by their beliefs about marriage, sexual behavior, and the distinction between the sexes.”
The legislation only ensures that those leaders and employees OUTSIDE OF THEIR HOUSE OF WORSHIP do not use their beliefs as legal discrimination. No one is saying you can't hate gays inside your house of worship. This is typical Christian panic mongering. Strictly speaking, leaders at houses of worship are not legally permitted to "ENSURE" employees abide by their beliefs as it is. This inexact language sounds like compulsion of behavior through some external means. They aren't even really allowed to dictate belief, there's no such thing as thought crime yet.
The leaders warn that women who identify as men would have to be accepted as men and be “potentially eligible to serve in positions reserved for men,” such as a Catholic priest or Jewish rabbi.
This is idiotic given the rampant sexual abuse going on in these organizations currently, but leaving that aside, it's perfectly legal for a Catholic church to write its rules to continue to exclude women or transgendered people from their clergy. The state is not in any way interested in legislating who is eligible to work with a bunch of sex offenders in a private club.
“[T]he Equality Act would expressly do away with the Religious Freedom Restoration Act’s application to its provisions, thereby precluding any religious freedom claims which clergy or others might bring,” the letter adds. “Under such restrictions, the pathway for the gospel would slowly be closed off.”
Can prayer not solve this problem? I mean, we apply prayer to gun violence, why not to this,, considering it much more directly affects houses of worship?
coerce medical professionals to do procedures that go against their consciences.
HOW? No one is saying a doctor can't tell a patient "I don't perform this procedure." Doctors are private businesses. They're simply saying they cannot be outlawed by the state.
“Under this big new umbrella of ‘discrimination,’ any American who doesn’t want to fund, offer, perform, or participate in abortion on demand will have no real choice. They can conform — or they can be punished.
Americans don't get to choose how much tazes they pay or where that moeny goes in any way other than voting. This is how the economy works. I don't get to say "I want a refund proportional to all faith based tax exemptions, because I don't believe that bunk." Nor do I complain about it. I simply pay it as part of the price of living where I live. And again, this language makes it sound like if you're a doctor who doesn't want to provide birth control pills because of religious reasons, you're FORCED to prescribe them, or you're FORCED into the procedure of an abortion. It's an absolutely idiotic idea that's meant just to make religious old white people think "They're a-comin' for mah Jesus!" They aren't.
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@RoderickSpode
In other words, as I've said before, you've placed restrictions on what God should be, or be like.
Actually, isn't it YOU that is placing restrictions on what God should be? Or have you prayed to many, many gods and found that only one answers? Because again, more people do not believe in your version of god than do, which means either you're wrong or they are.
Why aren't they making international headlines? There's a very common argument that militant atheists use that's actually contradictory. They complain that there's no evidence for God, would love to see it, yet say that if God is the God of the Bible, they won't worship him because he's evil.
They aren't making international headlines because they can't prove it. And the argument "there's no evidence for any gods, and IF THERE WERE, and that evidence pointed to the god of the bible, I wouldn't worship him because he'd be morally repugnant and not worthy of worship" isn't an argument nor is it contradictory. It is an admittedly inelegant statement pointing out (a) there's no evidence for any gods, and (b) positions a hypothetical that doesn't in any way contradict the first part. An argument would leave off the first part and just use the second part along the lines of "If the god of the bible were anything more than just a character in the book, it wouldn't be worthy of worship, because the book demonstrate a morally repugnant asshole not worth worshiping, here and here and here and here and here."
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@RoderickSpode
THe space race was something from sixty years ago, bud. There's no 'space race' anymore. Almost every developed country has a space program, do you think their sole purposes are "to be the coolest kids in space" or " have more of space than this other guy?" Or do you think space exploration has led to things like not only the MRI machine, but the network of satellites that carries the internet wherever your phone is, research on all manner of subjects to do with the atmosphere that you probably think are a Chinese hoax, velcro, memory foam, the ability to see almost to the beginning of time, not to mention innumerable less famous mechanical innovations? It's not JUST a source of national pride. Notred Dame cathedral was a building that hadn't changed materially in a thousand years. Landing a controllable rover on Mars only ONE HUNDRED YEARS after figuring out how to make a usable airplane...how much did religion contribute directly to that?
No, it doesn't surprise me that you agree. The argument is unassailable: if in one day about ten people can throw $1B at an old church, IN ONE DAY, why can't that same person take $100M and build and subsidize housing for 100K people? In practical logistical terms it isn't apples to apples, but it forces us to confront the fact that churches, while nice, are not what we need.
Look at it this way. Is Paris a good place to take one's family? Sure! However, if you're family were starving, and may end up freezing and possibly getting sick because your electricity is about to get shut off, you'd be unwise to make that trip to Paris. As a good provider of the home, you would place food and proper shelter ahead of your desire to see Paris.
WTF does this have to do with anything? Are you saying if you're poor, might be a better choice to keep food on the table instead of taking a trip to Paris? Sage advice. I'm trying to figure out why you think I would NOT have made this observation without being prompted, or what it has to do with the discussion.
The humanists like to use phraseology like The Family Of Man. The attempt to give the appearance of being concerned about our fellow man as if we were all one big global family. Obviously that's not the case. And obviously in the case of the space race, tribalism (or nationalism) is valued over global family.
I've never once heard or used the phrase "The Family of Man." How does the space race somehow imply devalue of human life? You realize that it's not a binary choice between the two, right? Like in the richest country on earth, there's a way to do both? Let's figure out a way to raise a ton of money, strictly for the poor, the people Jesus wanted to help, okay? Here's an idea. Maybe we can remove the property tax exemption from all churches and evangelist mansions masquerading as pastoral centers in America. Maybe the poorer, more rural churches in places like Mississippi or Carolina or Nebraska, maybe they can apply for a re-assessment and pay a PERCENTAGE of the property tax, but not 0. I mean, they take donations, right? But in the meantime, buildings like St. Pats in NYC or the National Cathedral in Washington, those places have to pay the full burden of their property taxes, because they're not hurting for money, they have well monied donor bases. ALL of that revenue goes to public housing. Can't afford it? Okay, then we have the IRS here to audit your books and adjust your rates accordingly.
As a Christian, would you vote for that?
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@RoderickSpode
The TL:DR version of your response, then, is "no, I can't."
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@RoderickSpode
Are you willing to examine the possibility that you're a sinner in desperate need of salvation?
Again, you mean? Sure! Just demonstrate that a being exists that cares if I jerked off in the shower when I was 13, or that will burn my friend in a lake of fire for being gay. Once you demonstrate this being, then you can demonstrate its rules and how I'm breaking them. I'll be glad to participate. Are you ever going to address anything I say?
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Well, I mis-stated, you're not making the 'y'all just want to sin' argument. You're asserting that, not arguing it. You know this is a debate site. Let's discuss. Why do you think that?
What if someone converted from theism to atheism from a sect or faith that didn't have the concept of 'sin'? What would their reason be?
Actually, I guess I'm not sure what I expect, in another topic today you said you didn't necessarily care about what's true or what isn't, you just go by your personal experience and feelings. So I guess what personal experience or feeling led you to this conclusion?
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@janesix
Rather broad brush. Are you making the "y'all just want to sin" argument?
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@Mopac
Curious, do you have a garage bay dedicated to making your sandwich board signs, or is it just like a part of the basement?
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@janesix
BS. It is clear atheists think they are superior to theists in every way.
Not in every way, just this one :).
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@RoderickSpode
I notice you didn't answer my questions, any of them.
I'm asking because I want to know why you said if anyone wants to communicate with god, they can (not communicate TO god, communicate WITH god). Or, if you have instructions on how to pray to your specific god, I'd like to have them. I must have been doing something wrong all those years, according to you, so I should be able to find what it was in your instructions.
If a god reveals itself to you, don't blame me if it turns out to be Jesus. I have nothing to do with the identity of the creator. If it turns out to be Thor, so be it.
Do you want me to tell you if it turns out to be someone OTHER than Jesus? Will you take my word for it?
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@RoderickSpode
And isn't the whole argument militant atheists are making is that people of religion are unintelligent?
ROLLEYES. Here we go. No, the argument made by atheists is that religion should be absolutely separate from state, that you're free to worhsip your toilet if you want to, but don't make laws based on your toilet worship that affect me, and don't treat those that don't worship your toilet as inherently different than you just because they don't find your toilet as nice as you do. This inferiority complex by the religious is grating.
One big problem in your scenario is you're talking about a relative who merely forgets things. Senility, Alzheimer's, etc. So I guess you still think I belong to some religious cult handling snakes and refusing medical attention?
What exactly is your objection to my scenario? It simply illustrates your god of the gaps thinking as it pertains to medical science and how medicine and science have made gods smaller and less important in practical terms.
What Jesus does do, as far as stepping in, is give us the responsibility to right injustices. For instance, how much do you think sending up one rocket into space costs? Now, how many starving people could have been fed with that dollar amount? If the motivation to send ships into space was because we want to beat the Russians to it, wouldn't you agree that that would be a gross violation concerning justice for the starving? Yeah, it comes at an expense alright.
SO when you think injustice, you think of scientific research? Weird. I'll give you another one. Tragically, the cathedral at Notre Dame burned down about a month ago. 800 years of history, burned in a matter of hours. No, I'm not going to ask where Jesus was to put out the fire. My concern is that within about 24 hours, they'd literally received more than one billion dollars in private donation commitments, most of which came from single donors (so not $5 a piece from a 200,000,000 people). France has a massive homeless problem. Paris, specifically. Is rebuilding that old building, which will NOT be the same as the historical place that burned down, more important than using that billion dollars of private money to build housing for homeless people in France? How many low income apartments can you subsidize for a year on the billion dollars that came in in the first 24 hours of donation? Couldn't Jesus himself step in? Space missions led to the invention of stuff like the MRI machine. That Cathedral led to a souvenir shop. I'd been there, it was incredible as a tourist attraction, but it served no purpose directly to the people of Paris.
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@RoderickSpode
I think the idea of non-communication with the creator is a comfort zone position, because as long as you can do that, you can actually believe you're part of some elite intellectual group that can snub their nose at the majority of humanity. If God revealed himself to you, it may very well be too painful.
I think the idea of directly communicating with something that created the universe, and all the events of your life and all life being part of some grand plan, and that by believing this you get to live forever in a giant chromed out mansion in paradise with that creator as your neighbor, is a comfort zone position, because as long as you believe all that, you get to be part of a giant club of similarly believing folks, feel that you're superior to all other people who don't believe as you do (as the majority does not believe what you believe, you also get the 'we're the underdogs!' stuff that feels good), and you get to think you don't ever have to die like all life before you has. If you realized how fragile your evidence for this communication is, and discovered that you've been lied to, and lying to yourself, too, and to others, it may very well be too painful.
And we didn't even get into how you know the god of the bible is the creator of the universe.
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@janesix
That is not a very reliable path to what's true, but okay.
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@3RU7AL
I think I can answer: they're just soooooooooooooo gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay. Jesus hates that shit!
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@janesix
Interesting to base your opinion on something that cannot be demonstrated through practical example, but okay.
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@RoderickSpode
God is not selective on who he communicates with, in that everyone has that opportunity. Communication with God is open to everyone. What you do with that opportunity is up to you.
Interesting. So if anyone tries communicating with god, he'll communicate back in a way that makes it very clear, at least to that person, that he's real and there and all that? So every prayer said in sincerity is answered? Or only Christian prayers? Or only CERTAIN Christian prayers? How can we tell?
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@RoderickSpode
No, I think I have you just right. Here's what you said:
Jesus actually made it clear that demonic possession had different levels, and how to deal with them. Man in all of our magnificence are hesitant to seek that kind of knowledge from a higher power, unfortunately at the expense of many.Our intellectual pride is what's killing us. We've advanced so much, now we can blow up the entire planet with a push of a button. We have to rely on human balance of power to keep us in our comfort zone, which is pretty pitiful. Someone always seems to suffer because of human advancement.
So, if you went to this doctor with your elderly relative, who was forgetting where they were, who they were, and the doctor said "As you know, Jesus says this COULD be one of many levels of demonic possessions. That's who I believe in, and that's how I'd advise proceeding. Not medicines, not proven therapies, but just good ol' fashioned Jesus....praying and an exorcism. That's my medical advice," you're saying you'd go to one of the people who were hesitant to accept this explanation, a doctor who went to medical school and would advise this medicine plus this therapy, then that medicine and another therapy, in an effort to actively cure your relative. That is just good common sense. Except you talk about them like they're idiots for not conferring with their various gods to get to an answer. Yeah, we have to rely on humans balancing power, because humans are real and intervene in our lives, all of us. Yeah, human advancement comes at a cost in some cases. If this were such anathema to Jesus, he would step in and do something about it. Or maybe Allah would, or vishnu, or Thor.
This anti-intelligence stuff just bugs me..."Oh, fancy book school you went to doctor, thanks but I'll just ask Jesus for help instead, you dummy!" But when put to the test, none of these bible thumpers ever eschew the doctor, instead they say "God put this doctor here and helped him come up with this plan or medicine or innovation." That's god of the gaps.
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@Mopac
Wrong. The atheist concept is "no god or gods have ever been demonstrated or confirmed to exist, therefore it seems unlikely that a god or gods exist or existed, so I will withhold belief in those gods or that god until such time as the evidence demands reexamination." Even your straw men are dumb, buddy.
Rich, coming from someone who says stuff like "Well there's such a thing as reality, therefore god exists" and "The truth is real, so then god is real because he is the same thing as truth, except if I use a capital T it sounds more majestic."
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Whoops, look like you missed the point again! I'm not too worried about it, you'll be back on the naughty list soon enough.
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@Mopac
You are now preying on a person with mental health needs. Welcome to the same level as scientology, o holy one.
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Can you give me a scientific explanation of 'morphic fields'? I can't find anything about them that looks like non-crystal, aura, energy woo woo, I'm hoping there's more to it than that. Changes do not require anything outside of imperfections in copies of genetic material.
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@3RU7AL
Christians want to defund public schools because they don't want their kids to learn about evolution.If you look at a lot of the curriculum designed specifically for home schoolers, it is clearly creationist propaganda.
I agree, this is the conclusion I reach too (evolution or substandard and unsound sex ed programs), but just the numbers don't indicate that, that's what I meant. The unregulated curriculum is a big issue.
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@3RU7AL
What if you make 60K a year? I presume the state would also offer the teacher's benefits package for medical coverage?
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@janesix
"Mutation" is simply "changes". You agree that organisms are not exact copies of their progenitors. Doesn't that mean something in them changed? You can literally watch viruses mutate (change) in a microscope. What about the idea of mutation is so crazy to you?
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@Mopac
Yes, and that term in the real world is absolutely meaningless in and of itself, because no one can measure a spirit's vital signs.
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@3RU7AL
BY percentage of population of the US, though, wouldn't that make sense probablistically? All I'm saying is that information doesn't give us the WHY, just the THAT. Not insight into why that is.
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@3RU7AL
I suppose, but isn't the choice between "work to pay your bills and send your kid to a crappy public school" or "quit your job at tremendous personal cost to perform a job that is, in many other places, performed by the state instead" not exactly a choice at all? At least not one we should be facing in America today, as far as I can see.
Also what happened to Jesus in this debate? :)
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@Mopac
It's really hard for you to just say "no, they are not licensed medical or mental health professionals." Where's that trademark humility you're always bragging about and not picking up the irony on? I love how you dispute the mental health profession but are totally fine with the 'spiritual ailments' problem. Do you buy or sell indulgences? Because where I sit, you're either a gull or a huckster.
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@Mopac
So they are NOT medical or mental health professionals by rule, these presbyters, and your advice to go talk to one as a remedy when someone YOU DO NOT KNOW is expressing a mental health issue is in fact at best irresponsible, at worst a cynical recruitment effort on your part trying to take advantage of someone's mental state, that could end up with extremely dire consequences.
Thanks.
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@Mopac
So they are not, in fact, licensed mental health professionals, correct? As a matter of rule, you do not need a medical or mental health professional license in order to achieve the rank of presbyter, is that correct?
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@3RU7AL
would you support giving parents the full dollar amount of the vouchers to pay them to home school their own children?
Wouldn't that also require paying the parent to do so, a salary? Otherwise their income becomes a problem: you can have $20K a year to home school your child, but you have to give up your $30K a year job to do it?
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He said, apropos of nothing as usual.
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@Mopac
IN GENERAL, ARE PRESBYTERS LICENSED BY STATE MEDICAL BOARDS? Your lack of a direct answer to this question seems to indicate the answer is no, they are not.
I don't take 'secular authority' as being the measure. I take proven science. If you're advising someone to talk to a priest about a clinical problem, rather than a properly licensed medical or mental health professional, over the internet without knowing the person, you are being exceptionally irresponsible. I can't stress that enough. You know absolutely nothing about this person you're doling out your trite medical advice to, very likely to her detriment. THe only advice she should be getting here is GO SEE A PRO. Not go talk to a cleric.
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I don't think "throwing money" at the problem is a great idea. I think using research to figure out how to get the most out of what money you can use, applying it to the places where it's needed, is probably a start. I can't imagine a material advantage in the purchasing power argument for the poorer districts because you're talking about a percentage point difference, i.e. 1000 bucks in a rich district spends like 1000 bucks, in a poor district it spends like 1200, the advantage is only $200, just to use round numbers. If the rich areas don't need that assistance, I don't get why it would be given, just for the appearance of fairness? To kids who are born into a great advantage through absolutely nothing but their own luck? I'd rather take the 2000 bucks that spends like 2200 altogether, 1000 of which is probably going to go to getting a new barista in the fancy schmancy teachers lounge and give it to the poor district where it can spend like a $2400 advantage, not a $200 one. Seems a better investment.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
A fair point, which makes you a golf deist, then :) ? It's an imperfect analogy, I admit, but the point is that even though we can't see science working all the time, in every case some aspect of it IS working, at least whenever inquired upon. Would you say Jesus or some supernatural force had a hand in either of your eagles? Why or why not?
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@3RU7AL
I'm confused: how would giving rich kids and poor kids the exact same amount of 'funds' give the poor kids any advantage?
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@RoderickSpode
Okay then, change imaginary friend to Thor. How does that change your discussion? You've seen evidence of Thor. Thor exists in many texts. Just so you know, in case you say "Well, Thor's the god of thunder so he shouldn't be giving out medical advice," I can find the gods of medicine for every ancient culture. You're being intellectually dishonest.
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@Mopac
Are 'presbyters' licensed by any governing body to give out medical advice, including mental health advice? Or are they just priests by a different name?
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@Mopac
You're not saying a presbyter is a doctor, right? Please clarify for her. A presbyter is NOT a doctor in any sense.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
it's not explaining what we know, we know what a hole in one is and all the things that can make it occur, the beginning of everything isn't so simple.
I agree it isn't so simple! But let's say no one knew how a hole in one happened, no one knew anything about golf swings or clubs. Would I then be justified in thinking "Wow, that was random! No way that could ever have happened unless Jesus was with me somewhere, right? Well, better never check and just guess it was Jesus." Or would I be better off thinking "I have no idea how that happened! WOW! Maybe I can study any one of these factors and figure it out eventually, because there are things at play here that I might not be able to see now, but I can discover if I look into them?" Which one of those has a better chance of me eventually understanding the great mystery that is my ever frustrating golf swing?
Congrats, I have two similar eagles, both of which did the same basic thing: dropped in out of what looks like sheer dumb luck but is actually a long combo of physics equations.
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@RoderickSpode
Thanks for demonstrating exactly my point: god can only fit into the gaps science hasn't filled yet. Diseases are not PERMANENTLY incurable, bro. Do you realize how many diseases we've cured in the last 200 years? the last 75? Do you know that DNA was discovered AFTER Joe Dimaggio retired?!? How many forms of cancer in 1960 were terminal compared to today? Do you think we eliminated those by appealing to Jesus to help, or by using science and study? Let me guess: science and study guided by Jesus? Please demonstrate Jesus's contribution then.
Let's say you take your ailing parent to a medical doctor. He says bad news. Dad's got alzheimer's. You are, rightly, devastated, before you go out to your car and thank god for this diagnosis, your doctor says "I have one treatment option that I'm pretty sure will work. Now, none of my colleagues or professional journals will back this up, but I'm pretty sure it'll work. It has nothing to do with medicine, I mean I'm not going to prescribe any to help because I think that's hubris. What I WILL do, though, is sit down in a quiet room and ask my imaginary friend to cure your dad. I am 100% sure it'll work because the bible says it will. Unless you don't believe the same as I do, or properly, or as hard, then it's probably not going to work. So just to be clear, no medical treatment, no medicine, I will sit and pray about it, if it works then Jesus, if it doesn't, your fault. Or maybe your sinnin' ass father's fault. Either way, you thank Jesus, and me too if it works but don't blame me if it doesn't. Sound good?"
Would you seek a second opinion? I mean from a prideful neurosurgeon second opinion. Why or why not?
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
it seems there are 2 options for just about everything and the usual questionsrandom chanceintelligent design
I'm not entirely convinced these are the only two options, but the argument "well what seems more likely" never leads anywhere because the answer to the lack of demonstration of the intelligent designer is "well, you just don't know HOW to demonstrate him and I can't tell you either." Random chance as it were offers no comfort, no punishment, no reward, no incentive, but it's at least equally as probable as undemonstrated intelligent designer. Things do seem to happen by random chance, right? They're not always though, it's just that we can't tell exactly what the direct cause is for sure yet.
Practical example: in the ten years I've been a golfer, I have one hole in one. All golfers want one, hope for one, but the second my ball disappeared, I was thrilled but realized quickly, oh, that's really just dumb luck. It's random chance: my ball landed at a spot on the green, with the right spin and line somehow, to get to the hole and drop in. That LOOKS like random chance. It isn't. It's a result of many other demonstrable, measurable factors: swing speed, wind direction, attack angle to the ball, spin rate which is itself is a result of physical factors I can't see and certainly don't know how to affect or repeatbly duplicate. It's not random chance. But Jesus sure didn't hole that shot, right? Because that's really how that argument positions it: either it's random chance, or Jesus did it, not physics and unseen factors that might be mistaken for either chance or Jesus.
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I am almost sure this is either a troll or a child. "Polar bears are white because they need to hide in the snow" ignores the fact that polar bear fur is clear, not white, but even better, it says olive oil cures cancer.
OLIVE OIL. CURES. CANCER.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
Recently I was part of a conversation with a neurosurgeon who made the comment. (paraphrasing) When you open someone's head and see the brain and it's design, how it works how can you not believe that there is a God?
The answer is that no god claim has met its burden of proof. Or, you can accept his argument from personal incredulity as convincing. There isn't a reason to look at a human brain and think "how can there be no god if this works as it does!" One does not follow from the other. Also, was he looking at a functioning brain, or was he in there trying to fix something he figured his god screwed up?
My preference would be to think small and ponder the wonders of stuff we HAVE figured out, for the most part. Like the idea that all atoms that make up the stuff we experience come from exploded stars, and that if one single molecule had been different, then I wouldn't have the two kids that I have today. That stuff really helps me keep things in perspective.
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@Ramshutu
n terms of races, there’s likely little evolution going on as there is not as substantial selective pressure going on (though there is some in some cases).
I read excerpts of a research paper a while ago that theorized (and supported) the idea that mankind originated in continental Africa, near the equator where the radiation from the sun required more melanin for protection, and as populations migrated north into Europe, east into high plains / desert Asia, changes slowly occurred. Higher altitudes = changes in eye shape, for example. It wasn't rock solid but it was plausible and as I recall was under peer review. I wish I remembered where I read the excerpts or the name of the paper / author.
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@Snoopy
530:
The state should not be pressuring people into public schools to begin with. It should be enabling them, not holding them back.
Sounds like "states shouldn't insist on public schools."
532:
When the state government takes money and dictates how people and their community account for their educational interest that is absolutely a coercive policy. It undermines natural interest and causes dependency too. If the people running the state want to help the poor and needy, they can do so in a manner that enables them to help themselves, not holding them back.
Read it as "taxes [state government taking money and creating educational system for all to use = taxes] are coercive and cause dependency.
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the state should apportion what has already been set aside for people interested in other options. If a mother doesn't want her son to attend their failing state subsidized inner city school, she should not be forced to rely on it.
Read as "State should tax then refund the portion for education to people who don't want to use public education."
536:
allotting the funding already apportioned for education in a manner which doesn't lend to coercion from whatever interests currently preoccupy the state government, whether they lend to neglect, standardized improvement, or intrusion. Actually, give people back the money that the state uses to artificially prop up public education, for education.
Again, refunding taxes for services not used...should I get a refund every year my house doesn't catch on fire because shit, I don't use the fire department! Or maybe if I never report a crime, should I get my portion of the police funding back? This is not how taxes work, nor am I being coerced by paying them.
543:
We are never going to improve our education systems until the people actually want to take the initiative themselves.
Sounds like "do your own education." Presumably with the money you paid then got refunded.
Repeated requests for clarification were less than illuminating. Sorry if I read you wrong, I mean I can continue but...
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THe thing I don't know how people get around is what's the ALTERNATIVE to evolution through natural selection? Wouldn't it necessarily be that all things are created in their final form and never change?
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