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@YouFound_Lxam
What about the generations of kids to come? You are going to have thousands of children getting surgery's that will affect their health, and cause our country's resource gathering ability, and defense ability to crumble.
Data please.
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@YouFound_Lxam
When you start to change the definitions of words, then that poses worldwide issues.
Yes, you've mentioned, and now this is the third time I'll ask: what are these issues SPECIFICALLY? What issue SPECIFICALLY is caused by having transgendered people allowed to identify themselves, rather than have you identify them? Is it just a communication issue?
When investigators have to identify the genders of their victims (assuming, mister language precision, you don't mean the victims of the investigators, but rather the victims of crimes, because your sentence here says victims of investigators)...can they mark "biological sex" down for those who are deceased, and consult the victim themselves if they're alive? What happens?Are you that dull?Three letters:DNAIf all the investigators have is DNA, and they are trying to match it to a suspect, and that suspect identifies as the opposite gender, then it's going to be very difficult to find them, yes?
So your big concern is that if a transgender person murders someone, and their DNA is present, and they provide a DNA sample while wearing the clothing of the opposite (non-birth) gender, then what, case dismissed? This is why we should tell high school kids if they need to go by he or she? You're just looking out for the victims of murder by transgendered people whose wigs and fake breasts can fool DNA analysis?
But they at least mean the basic same thing. You can translate a sentence in English to German, and vice versa, yes?So, we have a common understanding of words.
This proves the point that even when there are nuances in the definitions of words, and vast differences in the languages used to express them, somehow we still find a way to understand each other as humans, when we put our minds to it. Wouldn't you agree? Now, do you think that the "primer" for this understanding, the bedrock on which all human languages can be understood, is the definition of the word 'woman'? If you and a German understand this word differently, in other words, are you now no longer able to effectively communicate about gender at all? Can you communicate about any issue if you don't share exactly the same definition?
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@RationalMadman
I appreciate you laying out your own take on it, I'm not sure I understand it enough to agree or disagree with it, but it still doesn't rise to the level of the complete downfall of civilization, which is the level of import some types seem to put on it. I'm also not sure what your actual exposure to real gay and transgender people might be. I don't think transgender = mental illness. Are you saying you don't mind gay people, but do mind people presenting themselves as the other gender?
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@YouFound_Lxam
Ok then all Trans women should be not called Trans women. They should be called women, right?
Pretty sure if you just treated trans women the same way you treat tall women or blond women, everything would be fine, actually, so yeah! You're getting there!
And also no one needs to raise awareness of this. The media, Hollywood, and the whole Democratic party have made it their life goal to push this agenda.
Maybe then you ought to consider making fewer topics about someone else's genitals and the way people dress?
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@YouFound_Lxam
Trans people generally don't walk around saying things like "Hi, I'd like a tall mocha latter, I'm a trans woman who goes by Pat." Trans women just call themselves women. And again, it doesn't come up as often as you seem to think it does. If you stop worrying about the trans part, and just say man or woman, the trans folks would be just fine. Most of the transgender people who DO use this term are involved in raising awareness and acceptance.
Trans people preach that they feel completely like the opposite sex/gender, and they want to be affirmed of that, yet remind themselves every day of their femininity or masculinity with that title of Trans
Have you ever spoken to a transgender person in real life?
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@YouFound_Lxam
Sure, let's just start changing the definitions of words, because that will work out great in court systems and society.
This is exactly what I'm asking: what happens that's so terrible in court systems and societies if a person who was born with female genitalia decides they identify as a male? Where exactly is the first loose thread of society that inevitably leads to our Last of Us-esque dystopia?
And for all of those 7000 languages, there are many, many, many words that do not have direct matches in English. Including many in German. This has not caused The Purge yet, is there reason to believe that there's some consequence here besides my frustration with all of the Scandinavian alphabets and their weird marks on letters?
Oh, I don't know, how about, when doctors have to identify the sex/gender of their patients, or when investigators have to identify the sex/gender of their victims.
If you go to an obgyn and you mark down "male" on your intake form, what exactly does it prohibit the doctor from doing in terms of providing medical care?
When investigators have to identify the genders of their victims (assuming, mister language precision, you don't mean the victims of the investigators, but rather the victims of crimes, because your sentence here says victims of investigators)...can they mark "biological sex" down for those who are deceased, and consult the victim themselves if they're alive? What happens?
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If Trans-women, are in fact women, then why put the word trans in front of it?
Think of it like an adjective, like "blond" or "tall." If you leave it off, the sentence works just fine, and as a bonus, the person who is in fact a transgender woman might actually appreciate it, you know, feel like you see them as a valid member of the community.
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@RationalMadman
I'm not trying to gaslight anyone. I'm asking why it's important. What problems it causes if the definition changes. I literally spend zero time in my days thinking about how I define woman, this is just a rhetorical game with no right answer. A person has the right to identify themselves however they want, it's really not that hard to understand. So my definition of a woman might not match someone else's, but that goes for literally hundreds of words. "Ace" is the first one that comes to mind: there's at least four definitions that are absolutely distinct from one another, why does no one care about how we use this word?
Sure, there are instances in which genitalia are practically important, but this isn't one of them. Can you help me understand why this is an important one? Because it's it's just an "ease of communication" issue, then I'd probably worry more about harmonizing 7000 unique languages into one before I worried about a handful of words in just one of these languages.
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@YouFound_Lxam
Humans communicate through words.Words have destinct deffinitions.If we can't agree on deffinitions.Then we are going to have a harder time communicating.
Humans DO communicate through words...there are currently more than 7,000 sets of unique languages spoken around the world. How many have the exact same word for "woman"? Hm, yet we still seem to function as a species!
And is ease of communication really the issue you're worried about? How many times a day do you say the word "woman" when it's not in the context of an argument about how you want to know what everyone's got in their pants? I can tell you I go weeks without saying "woman" and I live with two. Somehow I don't think this is the hill you're trying to die on. When you do say it, do you find the people in your life are really like THAT confused as to what you're talking about? Like do you say "Look at that woman, she's got an interesting jacket on" and the person you're with is like "WAIT, WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU SAYING!?!? WHAT DOES THAT WORD MEAN AND WHO AM I SUPPOSED TO LOOK AT?!?!?!?"
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@YouFound_Lxam
When someone is trying to change the definition of one of the most simple words in the english language, then yea, that is a problem, and could lead to a lot more worse ones.
Please explain why this is a problem and what are the "worse" problems it could really lead to, though. Language changes so much over time, and society still seems to function. If we decide that the word "woman" is something that someone applies to themselves, rather than one that society requires, what exactly happens?
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@YouFound_Lxam
Can you help me understand why "definition of a woman" is such an important thing to you personally and apparently to society as a whole? What happens if you have a definition that doesn't match with current usage, let's say. What happens (a) in your life and (b) in society that we should all be contemplating our gender definitions as much as you apparently are?
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@YouFound_Lxam
God never gets mad at the people. His anger is directed at sin, that consumes the people. He is sad for us as humans, when we choose to run away from him.
Could god change this condition that makes him so sad that he tortures the people he never gets mad at?
As for sin, if you think about it intellectually, you can't have good without bad right?
Can god have good without bad?
God doesn't send people to hell. We send ourselves to hell.
People didn't make hell, though, right? Nor did we set up the conditions that sentence people to it, right? WITHOUT believing in god, which one can I get into, heaven, or hell?
So if this is what he wants to begin with, to party with all mankind in heaven, why is earth (or sin) necessary, do you think? It seems like you believe god has a goal in mind. Is that fair to say?To separate the good from the bad. Free will.
Please answer this question directly: does god know if you are good or bad, on the whole, before he creates you, or is he surprised?
You keep saying "free will" but have not yet demonstrated it can exist in a universe where god knows everything, is responsible for all things, and has seen all of time. Let's look at an example: Judas Iscariot. Did he deserve what he got in the end (a grisly death and a name synonymous with treachery)?
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@YouFound_Lxam
You're losing the plot, bro.
God knew that humans would disobey him.He couldn't have created us without sin, because then we wouldn't have free will.
So, he created us in the only way he could (again, here sin is more powerful than god, unless he COULD make us without sin, and chose not to...but then that makes him something else entirely). He put humans together wired in such a way that there is NO WAY for us not to fall short of his standard. It's a feature, not a bug, in other words. When they do, he manages to get mad about it.
God wanted true love. You can't have true love without that person willingly loving you by their own accords.
Interesting. So to you, true love comes with an "or else" component. "Love me, or it's into the torture chamber for you." That's not true love. That's just extortion. In this case, people are the victims, and god is an emotionally needy tyrant baby.
God could have created us in heaven, but that would have forced us to be good, because no evil exists in heaven.
So if this is what he wants to begin with, to party with all mankind in heaven, why is earth (or sin) necessary, do you think? It seems like you believe god has a goal in mind. Is that fair to say?
He knows what you will do, but that doesn't mean that he doesn't have a plan for you. You can write down a strategy even after the war.
Correct: he knows what I will do, and therefore has a plan for me to do it. If he DOESN'T know, then I can depart from his plan. If I can depart from his plan, then it isn't his plan.
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@YouFound_Lxam
He knew what we would do before he even created us. But what do you want God to do about that? Stop us from sinning? That would just be taking away our free will.
Ok, so he knew, while creating us, that we would sin. Did he also know it would make him mad? More importantly, could we have been created without sin as a possibility, do you think? Or was that beyond god's power? Does god know SPECIFICALLY what sins you'd commit before you're born?
I don't want god to do anything, I don't believe in god. I'm trying to understand how you make sense of any of this, mister "I can explain Christianity to the non believer!"
He has a plan for each person, doesn't mean we have to follow that plan though.
So if his plan doesn't include me departing from his plan, then he doesn't know everything, right?
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@YouFound_Lxam
God made us. He made us with free will. So we have free will to either follow, or run away from God.
He made us with free will, so he DIDN'T know who would or wouldn't follow his teachings, is that right?
God doesn't get mad at us for making errors, he is upset with us, when we don't have full faith in him. Him, knowing what we are going to do, doesn't logically contradict us having free will. He knows what mistakes we will make, but those mistakes, we made.
So then he has no plan for each person, right?
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@YouFound_Lxam
He did, but stopping us from making that mistake, would be taking away our free will.
You argument is logically incoherent: there can be no free will if god (a) planned for everything and (b) knows the outcome of every person's every decision, ever. You can't design something specifically to make errors and then get mad at them making errors. It's your design, you set up the rules, you fix it.
No, he could but it would contradict his own teachings. If he was in the presence of sin, then he would not be pure, sinless, or omnipotent.
This makes sin more powerful than god, is that what you believe? It's kinda like god's kryptonite?
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@YouFound_Lxam
Please familiarize yourself with what a straw man is. You're never going to get off the freshman debate team this way.
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@TheUnderdog
I disagree. I was able to teach my sister trigonometry without a degree in teaching. I know trig, so I could teach my sister who is bad at math.
Bro, that's ONE CASE. Are you serious, that's your counterargument to teachers needing degrees?
Educators have to have skills in EDUCATING. They have to understand child development and psychology. They have to learn how to disseminate the information in such a way that it reaches 20 different people.
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@TheUnderdog
100% of the ones he's researched.
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@TheUnderdog
In order to teach algebra in my book, you just need to know algebra
Teaching is a different skill than knowing. Ted Williams was a terrible hitting coach, for example.
My main reason for possibly supporting free college is so that poor students that are smart can go to college.
Lots of ways to skin this cat, especially when universities are flush with money as it is. And those ways don't need votes to get them done. The goal is noble for sure.
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@TheUnderdog
If the major can pay well when your done with college.
Be more specific. Educators don't get paid well, according to many. Is that a useless major? And market forces shift all the time.
Do you think high school degrees should be free?
Diplomas are supported by tax dollars today. Colleges are money making businesses. I don't think it can be free because such a change causes a gigantic economic disruption, if you just take all the schools in the US and say "Now you're free of charge!" it's a disaster on about 15 levels. I didn't say "should", I am thinking in practical terms.
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@YouFound_Lxam
I notice you didn't answer the question.
Technically speaking, speeding is an actual crime, but I'm sure you mean something else. And no, what I'm doing is demonstrating that more tickets don't necessarily mean speeding or traffic violations are increasing, the same way more arrests do not in and of themselves reflect a rise in crime. More cops on the street means that the guy who yesterday was smoking a joint on the street and got away with it, may be arrested today for doing the same by one of the new cops. That's not a rise in crime. It's a rise in enforcement. You can take the rise in arrests and then do further research (I know, you hate that word!) to figure out if a rise in crime is real, or if more arrests mean better enforcement, but it's just one component. Critical thinking bro. Read up on it.
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@YouFound_Lxam
Because he gave us free will. And we decided to do that.
Oh, okay...so god didn't know what would happen, then. But...I thought he knew everything, couldn't be surprised?
He loves us, but can't be with us because of our sin.
Curious...so there's something beyond god's capabilities! Wait, but that would make him less than all powerful....
But purgatory, is a good explanation for it.
Well, it's not really an explanation as much as it is a compromise made by the RCC because people were mad that their unbaptized babies that died, a rather common occurrence at the time, were condemned to hell, and the RCC was likely losing customers. THough it isn't in the bible, people were more comfortable with this idea than they were of a 2 day old baby roasting on a spit turned by demons for something that they didn't do. Again...research!
2Maccabees: doesn't mention purgatory. Rather it's about gathering the spoils of war and burying the dead, then making memorial offerings on their behalf. Where are you getting purgatory as a biblical idea from this?
2 Timothy 1:18:
may the Lord grant him to find mercy from the Lord on that day! —and you well know all the service he rendered at Ephesus.
Seems a bit of a stretch to say this is an example of purgatory in the bible. Are you reading these before you're posting them?
Matthew 12 :32
32:Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.
Again, how is purgatory in here? Maybe it's in Luke 23:43?
43 And Jesus said unto him,Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise. 43 And he said to him, "Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise." 43 And Jesus replied, “I assure you, today you will be with me in paradise.”
Hmmm....
1 corinthians 3:11-15?
11 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. 14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. 15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.
Uh....
And the real kicker, Hebrews 12:29:
29 for our “God is a consuming fire.”[a]
Can you help me understand why you think purgatory is somewhere in these verses, and not, as I have explained after researching it, a post-biblical man-made addition only to certain traditions and never in the text? Not to mention why Protestants largely don't agree that it's there?
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@TheUnderdog
We should get rid of useless majors, but I don’t think math majors or doctor degrees fall in that category. Should useful majors be free to get?
Who decides what majors are useless and how?
Short answer is no, but for me I don't think college can be free. I'm saying I agree with the PA governor: degrees aren't the leading indicator for competence in many fields.
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@YouFound_Lxam
More arrests = more crime.
No, my friend, I'm afraid it's just one possibility.
If your town had ten traffic cops who sat on ten different roads one year, and twenty on twenty roads the next year, do you think traffic tickets in your town would rise?
Arrests on their own are not a good statistic for actual crime indication. It's an indicator of increased / improved enforcement, first and foremost.
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@YouFound_Lxam
Right, so you have to read the material, then form your own argument based on it. My evidence is that there are literally hundreds and hundreds of drag shows that read books to children, in many, many communities, and a vanishingly small number of them are problematic (this is the cherry picked evidence, like three instances that you've posted links to, most of them one show in Dallas). Google it yourself, it's your main research tool. Kids love them because they're like living cartoon characters and they're silly.
So drag queens are also trans people?
I suppose some might not be, but a vast majority would say they're trans.
Have you ever talked to a real trans person?
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@YouFound_Lxam
As for little children, the bible is clear about how baby's, young children, and some of the truly mentally disabled people will enter the kingdom of heaven.
If the bible is clear, why are you citing someone's blog? Psalm 138 doesn't mention any of those people. Where is it "clear"?
Before Jesus, people were un-eligible to get into heaven. No one could.
So where did they go? According to the bible, I mean. Purgatory isn't in the bible, it was invented by Roman Catholicism, in response to this very problem, and is still subject to debate today. Not all Christians believe in it, specifically, Protestants largely reject the purgatory idea entirely. So, let's just use the bible, otherwise you'll end up having to explain why one tradition's addition to the bible is wrong, and others aren't. So, according to the bible ONLY, where do people who don't go to heaven end up? Where did, for example, the Native Americans end up? The ones who died through 1491.
He created us to be with him. But we can't be with him, unless we are absolutely pure.
So if he's all powerful and all knowing, how did he fail at this goal? I mean if he can't be surprised, he'd have known that he'd view every one of his beloved creatures as disgusting filth worthy of eternal unspeakable torture.
Even after all of that, he only askes us to have faith in him, and love him.
THen we can agree this love is in fact CONDITIONAL, right? And if we can't believe in him the way he wants, why doesn't he provide some substantiation that he's there, that he does love us, do you think?
The rest of your post just makes me so sad for you as a kid, man.
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@YouFound_Lxam
I would argue that. A kid being at any form of strip club is bad.
You're right, there's a typo in my response, SHOULD should be shouldn't. My fault.
We are not talking about the transgender community. We are talking about drag queens.
See my earlier post about sets and subsets.
It's your choice to look at the evidence. So you either believe everything that is coming out of my mouth, or you look at the evidence I provide, and combine it with my words, and make your own logical conclusion off of that.
I've done so, and find your argument poorly supported and unconvincing. I think I've made that clear enough. Your evidence is cherry picked.
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@YouFound_Lxam
"Federal authorities are on pace to make more than 2.3 million arrests during the 2022 fiscal year, which ends Sept. 30. That will far exceed last year’s record of more than 1.7 million arrests."Just in 2022 alone. Compared to Trump's presidency:"According to CBP data, during FY 2019, the number of individuals apprehended or found inadmissible nationwide totaled 1,148,024, an increase of 68 percent over the previous fiscal year."
Strictly speaking, this is better evidence of increased arrests, which don't necessarily mean crime jumps.
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@YouFound_Lxam
Well, SOME of us, right?
Like muslims and jews, they don't go to heaven, and not only that, they're tortured eternally. Or like a kid who dies at less than a year old, that was born in India...sorry Charlie, into the pit of eternal damnation, right?
What about people who were born before Jesus?
Also, how do you or I deserve eternal torture at all? I didn't do anything to Jesus. It kinda sounds like he doesn't like any one of us, at all, much less love us.
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@YouFound_Lxam
we don't even know what a good character, and a bad character is anymore.
Why don't you tell us what you think a good or bad character is? I bet we agree on a ton of them.
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@TheUnderdog
As an alternative to free college, a much less costly alternative, PA's new Governor recently rescinded the college degree requirement for 65,000 state government jobs. I'm surprised it's taken this long, to be honest, as I know plenty of morons with college degrees. Having one (particularly in soft skill fields, we're not talking about medical doctors or accountants or lawyers, we're talking about things like business degrees, polisci degrees, etc.) doesn't demonstrate much of anything beyond you can show up someplace when you're expected to and do the work asked of you. There's a lot of ways to show that that don't cost $400K.
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You are really obsessed with one drag show in Texas, huh? I'd say that I don't think it's appropriate to bring children to adult themed shows, or have minors in clubs that serve alcohol, full stop. That has nothing to do with drag queens, thoughDrag queens usually perform at these places, making them drag shows.
Have you learned about "sets" and "subsets" yet? The kind of show you're talking about is a subset of adult entertainment. There aren't any strip clubs appropriate for 8 year olds, drag queens are immaterial to the proposition. You yourself have pointed out you wouldn't argue that a child should be at a woman-performed strip show.
We are talking about two different things. Strip clubs, male or female, trans or cis, are not for children. But let's talk about the word "grooming." This is an extremely dangerous idea. What do you think it means? I think, for example, that it's entirely probable that the people using this term are uncomfortable with a young person (think 16 not 8) discovering their sexuality, and discovering that it isn't like most people's sexuality.If someone's sexuality is true, they wouldn't need others help to find it. Someone "helping" you find your sexuality isn't actually helping you, they are pushing you to do what they want you to be. If you have a specific sexuality, then you could tell yourself that.
You're responding to something I didn't say. I didn't say 'helping' anyone 'find' their sexuality. Read it again. Telling a sexually maturing kid that their sexuality and gender identity is their business and no one else's, and that even if you're in the minority, you're not alone and support exists for you, that's not 'pushing' anyone to do anything.
We shouldn't be inappropriate with kids, yes? This constitutes as grooming.
Agree...but it is not exclusive or in any way prevalent in the transgender community. You've yet to show otherwise. Are kids who find their dad's porno stash being groomed?
My advice is to just go to a drag show and see if you actually think it is what your facebook feed is telling you. I've been to them, I'm not gay, I have kids, no one tried to sell me a butt plug, the shows are fun. As is to be expected from someone your age, you have a lot of life to experience and make your own judgements onOpen your eyes and look at the evidence layed out in front of you.
THis response is a non-sequitur and I have looked at what you've laid out, it's rather thin. Feel free to try to buttress it, but again I'm not going to click on strange youtube links or an infowars story, so you will just have to express yourself with your own words I'm afraid.
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@YouFound_Lxam
We have to believe in him, in order to enter the kingdom of heaven.
What's the alternative to heaven? Can you describe it a little? Like if I don't believe in god, and I don't get into the kingdom of heaven, what will happen?
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@YouFound_Lxam
Ah, I see one of the problems: you're arguing a straw man. No one thinks it's okay to bring a child to a strip club, no rational person. The question put forth, and perhaps my issue for not asking for clarification, "Is sending kids to drag shows pedophilia," I figured could only apply to shows that have content appropriate for children (i.e. the drag queen story hours I mentioned, or breakfast hours with drag queens, etc.). I'm not really in the habit of clicking on links from teenage strangers on the internet, but your excerpt that ends with this:
These shows just from this one article are portrayed as non-child friendly. If a woman was to do all of this, and perform at these places, would it still be considered. ok?
What's the objection you have? Why would a woman sell a set of breast forms, and why would children be there? Curious though...if a woman did those things, would cry GROOMING?
You are really obsessed with one drag show in Texas, huh? I'd say that I don't think it's appropriate to bring children to adult themed shows, or have minors in clubs that serve alcohol, full stop. That has nothing to do with drag queens, though. We are talking about two different things. Strip clubs, male or female, trans or cis, are not for children. But let's talk about the word "grooming." This is an extremely dangerous idea. What do you think it means? I think, for example, that it's entirely probable that the people using this term are uncomfortable with a young person (think 16 not 8) discovering their sexuality, and discovering that it isn't like most people's sexuality. That drag queens aren't grooming (does this mean 'recruiting'?) anyone, but what they may be doing is encouraging that 16 year old (IN AN APPROPRIATE MANNER) to just be comfortable with whatever they are, and demonstrating that there's a community of people just like them, or potentially even weirder and more ludicrous (this is how I would describe every drag queen at any show: ludicrous, in the best way). That they're not some marginal meaningless kid, they're not alone. You example of the drag queen inviting people to look at their wares, even a sixteen year old...they're INVITING them, not compelling them. It's a way to de-mystify them, to assure someone they're not a monster like they might have been told. They're just a person who prefers to live their life in a certain way, and if that's what you as a sexually confused 16 year old think you might want to do, well, this is what you're going to want. I am not surprised you don't see the value in it, only the nefarious exceptions, which of course I will concede exist. They're just the vast minority, and you think they're not because you have literally zero exposure to different perspectives, which is to be expected.
My advice is to just go to a drag show and see if you actually think it is what your facebook feed is telling you. I've been to them, I'm not gay, I have kids, no one tried to sell me a butt plug, the shows are fun. As is to be expected from someone your age, you have a lot of life to experience and make your own judgements on.
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@Greyparrot
A whole lot of words to admit you can't find a DEI program with those stated goals.
You're asking about what, a school curriculum that "includes MAGA"? That's what I took from it, which is why I asked in what way you'd like them included. I think you're just in one of your hot flashes or whatever, you're crabby.
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@Greyparrot
DEI is CRT because the only diversity allowed is by skin color and not of thought.You would never see a DEI program in any school stating a goal to include DONALD TRUMP and MAGA in the classroom.Checkmate. Set and Match.
How can you tell it's not "diversity of thought"? It's specifically designed to be inclusive. Please propose how you want "Donald Trump and MAGA in the classroom." Wouldn't they be part of American history? The document is largely for grade schools, remember.
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@YouFound_Lxam
Can you see gravity? NoDo you know where it comes from? No
I can demonstrate it, I can use it in equations that work, and it comes from the earth's mass. Come on dude. Maybe quit being on the internet on your phone and start paying attention in the classes you're taking.
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@YouFound_Lxam
Let's refresh: you said in #36 that CRT is "being taught in grade school, yet it's not in the curriculum."
"THere ya go?" This article, from 2018, doesn't mention CRT at all. Is it "diversity" and "inclusion" you're now opposing, which isn't CRT in any way? Shifted goalposts, the sign of a very poorly thought out position. Even the part you posted is confusing, it in no way supports your argument. Or, your former argument, as you appear to have abandoned it. Do you even know if this article is still valid? This is what's called "academic rigor," and you're not using very much of it. It's very different from "google and post the first link you find." You wouldn't be the first 15 or 16 year old not to use it when you should, but if you're going to pose as some sort of intellectual, at least try the legwork. Here's the entire text of the article, please quote specifically where CRT is mentioned or where you think it is implied.
How to Foster a Strong DEI School CultureSchools have always been interested in fostering diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI), but the work has taken on renewed meaning as student populations grow increasingly diverse in every way—in relation to race, ethnicity, socioeconomic status, language, religion, sexual orientation, gender identity, special needs, and more. Research shows that children and adults alike thrive in diverse, equitable environments. But how do educators foster inclusivity successfully? And where do schools begin?Setting StandardsWhen conducting quality reviews, SchoolWorks measures the effectiveness of each organization’s current systems against SchoolWorks School Quality Criteria (SQC) – a research-based set of standards describing effective practices linked to positive student outcomes. Because research demonstrates that sound DEI policies, practices, and resources correlate with effective teaching and learning environments, SchoolWorks has revised this set of standards to add a research-based indicator focused specifically on DEI:Dimension 2.2 – Students’ Learning Culture: Does the school foster a strong culture of diversity, equity, and inclusion?The indicator consists of the following criteria:
- Criterion 2.2.1: Diversity, equity, and inclusion are embedded in the school’s mission, philosophy, and core values.
- Criterion 2.2.2: The school’s leadership and staff are engaged, supported, and involved in a strong culture of diversity, equity, and inclusion.
- Criterion 2.2.3: The school’s pedagogy and data systems foster a strong culture of diversity, equity, and inclusion.
- Criterion 2.2.4: Students encounter and are involved in a strong culture of diversity, equity, and inclusion.
- Criterion 2.2.5: The school facilitates the participation of families, parents, and community members in a strong culture of diversity, equity, and inclusion.
- Criterion 2.2.6: The organization’s leadership and institutional supports are guided by strong principles of diversity, equity, and inclusion.
Because it’s human nature to focus more on outcomes that are measured rather than outcomes that aren’t, this new indicator will help maintain a steady focus on DEI; clarify the elements of a school culture that fosters DEI; and encourage all schools to adopt effective practices.Starting The WorkSchoolWorks teams have already used the SQC’s new indicator in visits at schools for several projects, including Detroit Children’s Fund, Denver Public Schools, and Compass Charter School (Brooklyn, NY). School leaders have expressed gratitude for the focus and feedback on diversity, equity, and inclusion; but are often still in the beginning stages of shaping their visions and implementation plans. When schools begin prioritizing DEI, early efforts often involve one or more of the following:
- Helping students learn about themselves and various aspects of their identities.
- Encouraging students to learn about their classmates and/or communities.
- Building strategic relationships among students and staff.
- Analyzing relevant data such as discipline outcomes for various racial groups.
- Providing staff development on topics such as privilege, implicit bias, and reactions in times of stress.
- Selecting curricular texts that reflect students’ backgrounds.
These are all good places to start, but continuing the work requires deeper and broader efforts.The SQC can serve as a helpful guide for schools in directing their work. Criterion 2.2.1 and 2.2.2 are particularly good places to start because—as when implementing any program in a school—you must first define the vision for DEI at your school and engage leaders and staff before working to ensure that students experience this culture.Learning Alongside One AnotherSchoolWorks knows firsthand that this is difficult work. That’s because we continually work to make our own corporate culture more diverse, equitable, and inclusive. Our DEI Committee meets regularly to discuss relevant professional development; and operationally, we work to increase the diversity of our school review teams to better reflect the student populations of the schools we serve. In the coming months and years, we will continue to prioritize this vital work and learn alongside schools who are doing so.Seeking HelpOne of the best ways to get an honest assessment of your school’s culture—including the extent to which your school’s culture fosters DEI—is to schedule a SchoolWorks School Quality Review. During a review, the SchoolWorks team examines multiple sources of evidence in order to understand your school’s performance in relation to the SQC’s four domains: Instruction, Students’ Opportunities to Learn, Educators’ Opportunities to Learn, and Leadership and Governance. At the end of the review, the SchoolWorks team facilitates an action-planning meeting with school leaders and key stakeholders so you can celebrate strengths and develop a prioritized improvement plan, which may involve ways to strengthen your school’s culture of diversity, equity, and inclusion. Find out more about SchoolWorks School Quality Reviews.
What a hellscape this document describes!!! THE HORRORS!
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@RationalMadman
I'm not saying they don't exist. I'm saying no one in here is arguing that it's fine to take a child to a show where an adult is exposing their naked body. Given that, I think most people in here presume that we're talking about drag shows made to entertain children, rather than the lurid adult sorts.
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@RationalMadman
I can understand the reason to be against these stripper shows being exposed to young audiences.
This is a different topic than drag queens, though, and no one in here has supported bringing children to The Pussycat Lounge.
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If you take a Drag Queen show, and have the same exact act, but with actual women instead, would it be acceptable or appropriate for kids to be there?
So, the question is "is it appropriate for women to perform in front of children?" As the question stands, obviously yes.
Ok, well that's your opinion, and I'm going to call you a dick for that. Now don't get mad, understand?
Yes, I'm not mad that you think I'm a dick for wanting people to feel like they can have their freedom of expression. COmpletely comfortable.
Difference between you and me, is that your conclusion to your argument, is to tell your opponent to shut the f*** up, and mine is to make valid points.Who is being more intellectual here?
Read it again. That's not my conclusion to any argument, it's my advice to you as an adolescent. If you get all worked up when you hear someone thinks you're an asshole, because of something you think, then my advice is that you do not go around telling people whatever that is until you recognize people can think you're an asshole. Please don't bring "intellectual" into the argument, either, you've called it the "political isle" and used the wrong THEIR in another forum title,not to mention you clearly didn't read the article you posted about what you thought was CRT in elementary schools. And used an argument that stated "I have not seen a problem with child abuse in modern churches, except for the ones I've seen."
You say that people should have the ability to express their own opinions because we are so diverse, yet you don't respect mine, and actually get pressed about me saying that kids shouldn't go to drag queen shows. I thought everyone's opinion matters.
You're still getting it wrong. I respect THAT you can have an opinion that differs from mine, which as far as I can tell is one person on a video you saw on the internet showed a child their butthole and that means drag shows for children everywhere are undermining the fabric of America (or something), and you think they're weird and gross. Your argument that kids shouldn't go to drag queens show seems entirely based on one person, one video, so far. That's your opinion, you have a right to it, I respect that part. It's a stupid opinion that's ill informed by reality. That's MY opinion. I really don't care if you respect it, and if you call me a dick about it, I'm just going to say "Oh, okay," make my conclusions about you as a character and move on. That's how societies function.
Either get over it, or support your opinion with facts and not emotions.
Get over what? I'm not all bent out of shape that you're an asshole, life is full of them. I don't even care if you think I'm an asshole, given how poorly informed your opinions are thus far, how shabbily supported, how ill expressed, I don't give them any weight at all. If you were an actual intellectual, I might think "Hey, that person whom I respect seems to think I'm an ill informed asshole, maybe I should examine what I think a little more closely for WHY I think it, and decide if I should review my position."
You said "bringing kids to drag shows is wrong, because hey, it's my opinion." Is this actually your opinion? Please support it with facts, not emotions.
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@YouFound_Lxam
That is being taught in grade school, yet it's not in the curriculum.
You sound paranoid.
Please provide the substantiation, but this time please make sure it applies to GRADE SCHOOL.
And this time read the article. I'm not going to do your homework again.
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@Greyparrot
Huh??? Are you having some sort of reaction to medication you're on? sorry, a reaction to whatever snake oil you got from INfowars this week to boost your manhood or whatever?
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@Greyparrot
I'm not sure what you're getting at. You've tried this with strippers, hooters girls and Donald Trump. None of these story times exist. I'm certainly free to say "No, I don't want my kids attending a story time with Donald Trump" for any or no reason, and you'd be free to say "You're an asshole" over it. What exactly is it you are trying to find here?
Freedom of association is the American way.
Explain how my advice countermands this idea.
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@Greyparrot
@YouFound_Lxam
"Another report suggested that from the mid-1980s onwards, Catholic priests in the US were dying from AIDS-related illnesses at a rate four times higher than that of the general population, with most of the cases contracted through gay sex, and the cause often concealed on their death certificates."
What's missing? The report itself. Perhaps this:
Kansas City Star found the AIDS-related death rate among priests was "more than six times" the rate among the general population in the 14 states studied
14 states =/= general population.
So yes including churches, but I have yet to find any modern day churches with this problem, with the exception of some.
Come on now. You wrote this, had a chance to edit it, and didn't, which would lead me to the conclusion you thought it was...good? "I've never seen one, except the ones I have seen." THat's what this says. Try again.
You can do whatever the hell you please, but when you insist that I must buy into whatever you want to believe, then that is taking away my right to believe what I want to believe.
No one is insisting this or taking away your right to believe whatever you want. This is somewhat typical: you believe something that others don't, and when they call you out as a bigot or even ask you to support your position with facts, you flounder around and then say "I have the freedom to believe what I want," without recognizing that the right to believe it does not equate to the right to never be called an asshole over it. You can believe, absolutely, whatever you want. If I find whatever that belief is abhorrent, I am within my rights to say "you're a dick." This is what you're actually objecting to: society deciding you're a dick. By all means believe whatever you like, but own whatever it is fully and understand that you aren't insulated in any way from others deciding you're an unpleasant douche because of it. After all, it's ALL beliefs.
So I would ask you if you think boys dressing up as girls is beneficial to society, and I would also ask the reason you are bringing your kid specifically to a drag queen, and not another person. What makes it different, and so special?
I would respond that I think it's important to demonstrate to my kids that humans are a diverse group, but they're all humans. Plus they're reading Horton Hears a Who, that's their favorite story.
I wouldn't care what your answer was, and I would leave it at that.
My advice is to just start here: shut the fuck up about it then from the start, because whatever anyone says to you is pointless, you have your position calcified and you can live your life just fine without ever going to a drag show, or worrying who's taking their kids to drag queen story hour. Then I don't even have to know you're an unpleasant douche. See how it works?
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@YouFound_Lxam
No one, it’s not being taught in grade schools anywhere. This is a made up issue concocted entirely within the minds of paranoid right wingers.Hate to break it to you, but:
Did you read this article? Grade school isn't in it. It's an article that reviews the data returned in a survey of 18 - 20 year olds, and it doesn't say "CRT is being taught." From the article:
To answer this and other related questions, we commissioned a study on a nationally representative sample of 1,505 18- to 20-year-old Americans—a demographic that has yet to graduate from, or only recently graduated from, high school.
Not grade schools.
We began by asking our 18- to 20-year-old respondents (82.4 percent of whom reported attending public schools) whether they had ever been taught in class or heard about from an adult at school each of six concepts—four of which are central to critical race theory.
So now it's not just talking about curriculum: "heard from adults" is distinct here from "taught in class". The entire paragraph that follows this one uses the phrase "XX% report being taught OR HEARING." And it's not limited to CRT, either. Among the questions, "America was built on stolen land," which I find interesting, as this could theoretically include the respondent's interpretation that there were people here before there was America, and the people that made America took the land from them in one way or another. So if you recognize that native Americans were here when European settlers first arrived, you might think the land was stolen, without having a teacher phrase it this way in the curriculum. Here's another portion I'd think requires more interrogation:
As shown in the chart below, 68 percent responded that they either were not taught about opposing arguments or were taught that there are no “respectable” opposing arguments
See the word "respectable" there? That word is an adjective, and open to the individual interpretation, and it does not necessarily mean that the teacher SAID that there are "no respectable arguments," because as it's phrased, the student is free to make their own determination on the "respectability" of any specific argument. In other words, it doesn't say "Some people think that black people are just inherently inferior at XYZ and that's why things are the way they are, and that's not a respectable argument." It leaves open the possibility that the student is taught EVERYTHING before the comma, and independently CONCLUDES the italicized, and therefore marks the survey in a certain way. The article says "As shown in the chart below, 68 percent responded that they either were not taught about opposing arguments or were taught that there are no “respectable” opposing arguments", when I could just as easily interpret the very same data as presented as "73% were taught that there ARE opposing arguments."
Polls are super easy to 'rig' in such a way that you lean your results in a certain way. This is why media literacy is important, and not just "google search and post a link to a story that you didn't read or understand." CRT is not being taught in elementary schools. Its concepts may show up in pre-college public high schools, but that isn't a course on CRT.
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@Greyparrot
Can you link me to the data showing the clergy at large has a AIDS infection rate 4X the per capita infection rate of the population? I ask because I want to see how many individuals that number may represent. Also you didn't say "Because the clergy have 4X the per capita AIDS infection rate in their population, I approve." You said because they're gay, and then said because it's some form of abuse of authority (I think, you haven't clarified this position and I said I don't quite get what you mean). Kinda looks like you're dropping it, because you're all over the map.
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@Greyparrot
Clergy are most certainly in a position of authority, as are drag queens when vulnerable children are ordered to accept them by teachers abusing their authority.
So instead of your original argument, which was, in response to my question, should we keep children out of churches based on the preponderance of actual documented child abuse:
Since most of the Clergy is gay, I approve.
We're dropping that for the above, which seems to be...well I'm not sure what, actually. Can you please explain? And "ordered to accept them," please explain how this happens.
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@YouFound_Lxam
I am also saying that kids should not be allowed to go to drag shows, unless it is legitimately child friendly.
Should the same prohibition apply to churches?
But when they are showing parts of their naked body, to young children, and making provocative comments to kids that is when it becomes a problem.
This has nothing to do with drag queens reading stories to children. It applies to all adults.
So, we should be exposing our kids to men, dressed up as women, who entertain.
Let's play pretend, okay? You and I are having a discussion, you ask me what I'm doing this weekend, and I say I'm taking my seven year old to drag queen story hour Saturday morning, the one at the library, and I checked, no one is showing their butthole or giving out gift bags with butt plugs in them, or whatever else you're really worried about deep down, it's a straightforward story hour. Given your statement above, please make your argument to convince me I should NOT be doing this.
We should be teaching our children that unless whatever someone is doing directly affects their lives in some measurable way (i.e. not "It's gross! I wouldn't do that!"), that to be an American means to shrug your shoulders and understand that even if you disagree with what they're doing, even if you'd never do it, that everyone has a right to their own identity. It's not hard to understand.
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