Total posts: 7,093
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@Mopac
Them what did you mean?
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@Mhykiel
If future events are static then they cannot be changed. If events are unalterable then how is there freewill? That seems contradictory. On the other hand if events are changeable then any predictions of the future cannot be one hundred percent accurate which precludes omniscience.
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@Mopac
Personal whim and arbitrary are not interchangeable. Did I misunderstand you?
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@Mopac
So the ultimate truth is completely arbitrary? That doesn't quite gel with your previous claims.
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@Outplayz
I would never want any reality in which i am immortal in.
You said superman's powers and one of those is immortality, or cat least functional immorality, you don't get to pick and choose here either you have the powers of the man of steel or you don't. I'm just pointing out the practical flaws and downsides. Like don't shoot the messenger yeah.
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@Mhykiel
I am more concerned with future than past. Wouldn't an omniscient being be able to predict future events with one hundred percent accuracy?
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@Mopac
But christianity teaches us that you are wrong in which case I have no reason to accept your statements about what christianity teaches and even less reason to accept the bible since it wad written by men, ancient bronze age men with no knowledge of modern medicine or cosmology. Do you really fail to see how that undermines Your argument?
If there is an ultimate truth that doesn't mean we can know anything about it, indeed you have as much as said that we cannot. The ultimate reality could be anything or nothing and it would be functionally identical from our perspective.
Say it with me "we cannot know anything about the ultimate reality and it is therefore impossible to say with certainty that the ultimate reality has anything to do with christianity."
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@Mhykiel
As an omniscient being wouldn't you know what course any particles would take before they moved?
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@Outplayz
I can control when i hear it so it wouldn't be constantly.
According to dc cannon superman hears everything and also any specific thing he decides to concentrate on simultaneously and hearing is far from his only super sense so I'm not so sure you are right about being able to stop being aware but even if you couldand did wouldn't it tear your heart out if you found out later that someone you care about was hurt or killed while you weren't paying attention?
fear is a motivator i can utilize easy.
So you would be a tyrant?
one day we might meet again.
For that you would have to die (according to your currently held beliefs) and superman does not seem able to do that (at least not permanently).
I don't care what others think of me.
Let's hope not because you would know everything anyone ever said about you in exquisite detail.
I can love and likely be loved back
That is part of the problem. As a near immortal there would be no end to your mourning.
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@Mhykiel
So the take away is that while we may observe a waveform a different observer (say an omniscient one) would be able to observe a particle in a superposition.
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@Goldtop
Any event ever in any capacity.
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@Mhykiel
Thank you I will check that out when I have time and if I have any questions I'll get back to you.
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@Outplayz
To be a constant outsider even when surrounded by others? To be constantly aware of the pain of humanity because of your super senses? To be forever both alone and never have any privacy? To watch everyone you know grow old and die while you remain? Which part of that spunds pleasant to you?
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@Outplayz
You name a superpower and I'll pointput why you wouldn't want it in real life.
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@Outplayz
Sorry I'm a bit if a downer on subjects like this but if there is a superpower that wouldn't be an absolute curse then I've never heard of it and an increase in power only exacerbates this.
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@Outplayz
The problem of being driven mad by the power and/or the implications of said power remain unaltered and so by extension does my answer.
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@Shed12
What is subjective about up and down?
Your position relative to the nearest substantial gravity well. There is no up or down in deep space.
real unit and the units we use are just representations of the real unit.
Only if physical reality as we perceive it exists which is far from certain.
If illusion is consistent with itself, I think it doesn't matter.
No one made the claim that anything matters unless you did.
I guess so.
Indeed guessing is all we can do.
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@Outplayz
Why would that change the nature of the problem with wielding an infinity stone or my answer?
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@Mopac
In that case you acknowledge that you are wrong in which case you cannot make any claim and expect to be believed.Christianity teaches that everyone is wrong and only God is right.
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@Goldtop
Cause and effect in general. Is your mind subject to the effects of any event (cause)?
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@Outplayz
So we don't really know and toying with such power is tantamount to risking insanity. I am going with none of the stones on this one. I would not like to wield any of the infinity stones.
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@Goldtop
I was quite specific. Is your m8nd subject to cause and effect or not?
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@Goldtop
Is your mind not subject to causality?
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@Mopac
What is the Icon of Christianity?
The christ, which you have not demonstrated to have existed.
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@Outplayz
But you would know the feelings were artificial. Is that real happiness? I feel like that would drive me mad even if the power of the stone itself didn't.
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@Shed12
Not that it cannot be real only that we cannot accurately make that determination.Do you think because something is subjective, it cannot be real?
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@Shed12
Actually I do not believe that humans can have objective certainty about anything. All we have is subjectivity. Up and down are largely meaningless distinctions unless viewed subjectively and height is only objective if our perceptions reflect reality which we cannot be certain of. You are correct that quanta is meaningless without qualia but we cannot be certain that the quanta we have observed is more than our observations of an illusion. If we accept our perceptions reflect reality then we can make certain inferences from those perceptions, particularly with the application of the scientific method.
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@Mhykiel
Quantum waveforms collapse into a superposition when observed. Quantum waveforms exist uncolapsed ergo some of them have not been observed ergo nothing has observed everything ergo nothing is omniscient. If our understanding of quantum theory reflects reality then omniscience is logically impossible.
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@Shed12
I understand that there is a functional difference between real and illusory, what I am unable to do is to tell you the difference between reality (whatever that turns out to be) and a convincing and persistent illusion.
Also height is measured in subjectively decided terms. We decided how long an inch is and the term "inch" has no objective meaning without our subjective agreement upon that length.
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@Mopac
You have claimed to be christian and often quote the bible. This certainly gives the impression that you believe that christianity reflects ultimate reality. If this is not the case then why claim to be christian or connect your faith with the bible? If it is the case then you have not demonstrated that your beliefs reflect reality in any significant way.
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@Plisken
Mopac has claimed that the ultimate reality is the christian god and to deny that this is the case is indefensible. If You wish to discuss the subject we certainly can but understand that our conversation is separate from my conversation with mopac.
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@Outplayz
None of these would necessarily grant happiness to the user.
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@Mopac
Ok how does this lead us to christianity? How can we make any objective statement about this ultimate reality other than "it is what it is"? What if it isn't the christian god? What if buhddism describes the ultimate truth and we are destined to be reincarnated until we reach perfect peace? What if solipsism describes the ultimate truth and nothing you experience is real beyondthe fact that it is your real experience?The realest truest most existiest reality is what I call God.
You don't know what your god is. You cannot make any objective statement about it's properties.
On a final note dictionaries are only authorities on popular usage of words not on the nature of reality. The word star and a star are quite different. A word is not the object the word describes.
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@Shed12
What do you mean by "doubt"? I cannot be objectively certain of anything except that I am experiencing something even if that something turns out to be totally illusory. Is being uncertain of something the same as doubting it?A radical skeptic would doubt even solipsism
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@Shed12
How would you realize it? Don't your perceptions seem "real"? How does one go about determining the difference between seems real and is real?
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@Shed12
Maybe you're not a soft solipsist and you're only a very radical skeptic.
What is the difference?
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@Shed12
May I ask you how your perceptions would seem different if they were completely illusory and your awareness was the only thing that was "real"?
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@Shed12
The definition of real is what actually is. What is that? What actually Is? Unless we know that the definition is meaningless. What I have is a meaningless definition.
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@3RU7AL
So I don't have a definition for what is "real" although I accept my perceptions as "real" for convenience sake.
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@3RU7AL
I would say that it may be impossible to be objectively certain that anything is "real" or "exists" regardless of one's preferred definition.
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@kindertina
Awesome. Thanks for being a wizard. We really needed some magic muscle in this fight.
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@Plisken
I haven't I merely accept that you are "real" as a convenience so that we may have this discussion at all.
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@3RU7AL
These are qaulia not quanta. This thread is nothing more than an avenue to discuss the difference.
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@drafterman
I am following Roberts down crossbow ready. I cast resistance on Roberts as we go. (Is that radiant sphere still going?)
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@Buddamoose
(If we don't get him off grahf we are going to have a hard time damaging him without hurting our friend. Anyway I can't turn undead on a hag so I may as well use it on this baby vamp.)
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@drafterman
Ok now I turn dead. (In primordial) you dare defy the will of Zud the undecided!?! I said get thee behind me!!
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