secularmerlin

Sheildbash mace combo on the  ghoul closest to me that is not fleeing

Actually I thought that was a pretty straightforward question. Do you believe that a rock has a mind? You could say yes, no, maybe or I don't know but reality at large seems to display as much of a mind as a rock does.

We are having trouble with definitions so I thought if I made a comparison it might help us understand one another. I do not have any master unless your definition is different than mine in which case we are still not having the same conversation.

I'm not sure what you mean by justify myself I have still not made any claims only said what I seem to observe. I am just trying to understand your claim but you are using definitions so vague that I cannot puzzle out whether you believe reality is sentient or not.

That is a non sequitur. 

I thought we had agreed that truth has nothing to do with what we want but simply is as it Is? In any case is a rock mindless? If a rock is not mindless we can talk about your definition of mindless if a rock is mindless then I have no reason to believe that what you refer to as God is not also mindless.

Can a rock have masterybover things? If it can we will talk about your definition of what mastery over means if not then I do not believe that what you refer to as God can have mastery over anything.

Can a rock own things?If so we will talk about your definition of what own means if not then do not believe that what you refer to as God can own anything.

Are you now claiming that there is no way to differentiate between a being with those faculties and a being without them?

Okay how shall we differentiate between a being like me which has thoughts, emotions, and a mind and is both capable and willing to communicate and a being like a rock which would spear to lack all of these attributes? Becaus I have no reason to believe that reality isn't the second one and that is what I am trying to communicate. If you believe in any god(s) including but not limmited to god, God, and GOD which have thoughts emotions or a mind. Or put your way I believe that God is mindless in the same way that a rock appears to be.

By the way how would different words that are possibly clearer to me change what you believe ?

I do not claim there is no truth but depending on your definition, which apparently I am still unclear on, I'm not sure I believe there is any Truth. That is I do not currently believe that the truth (capitalized or not) is a being with agency.

I am trying to understand but every time I think I do you tell me the definition as I understand it from you is incorrect. Now we are not referring to the same thing with the word being, so allow me to adjust if I can.

Please substitute the phrase (a being with agency) for the word (being) and if you still do not understand my question or it doesn't fit with definitions that are acceptable to you. Eventually perhaps I will find the magic terms that will allow us to communicate. I don't suppose you would be willing to adopt a few of my definitions for the purposes of our conversation?

(Provided it works.)

@Buddamoose @Drafterman 

(Coolsies then my actions remain basically unchanged.)

If you believe that reality is necessarily a being and necessarily knows things then seriously misunderstood your definition of what you refer to as God. If this God of yours is not a being then it doesn't know things unless you have a separate definition for know as well. There is evidence that things happen there is no reason to believe that all things that happen are guided by an intelligence. Reality doesn't require intelligence or awareness to exist.

Reality exists whether it is known or not remember.

Turn dead. ZUD'S INDESCISION TAKE YOU BEFOULED CORPSE !! Spoken in primordial.

So you have a special personal definition of omniscience too? Ok lets hear it. When you say God did it you seem to imply an agency which reality does not seem to exhibit, at least I'm not sure how we could test reality for conciousness to the degree we cpuld claimed it did something rather than that something happened within its confines.

Would you classify a mindless collection of matter and energy moving according to the laws of physics that is completely unrelated to the supernatural in any way God? If so then what you refer to as God does appear to exist though I do not call it that, if not then I ask again what do you believe?

Why is it a ridiculous question? It illustrates the omnipotence paradox giving us a good startingpoint for discussing it.

I cannot really scream unless I am real. I accept that I am real as a convenience but I cannot be certain and by extension I cannot be certain that I can actually scream.

You do know what solipsism is right?

I already told you he will put off the moment of my death as long as possible so he doesn't have to decide what to do with my soul.

(No not really. Zud isn't a very hands on deity)

(Is my strength of 10 really going to be what puts us over the top?)

Zud doesn't care what we do only how we do it. I lead the way into the room Snerp has indicated. And told you I'll out live you.

I accept that some reality exists even if it is not the one I perceive. If that is all your god is then I accept that if it is more you did a poor job of explaining your beliefs.

If you defined god as a giant ball of nuclear plasma around which the earth orbits I would recognize that as what I refer to as the sun and I would agree with you that it exists but I would not accept that the sun guides the fates of humans unless you could demonstrate that to me. You may call the sun a god and then I suppose your god (the sun) would exist but I would not believe the sun was a god.

It is the same with reality. Something probably exists (all though we cannot be certain) and if you choose to call that something a god then I agree that what you call god exists but I would not classify it as a god personally.

So one more time would you classify a mindless collection of matter and energy moving according to the laws of physics that is completely unrelated to the supernatural in any way a god? If so then what you refer to as a god does appear to exist though I do not call it that, if not then I ask again what do you believe?

Fine, but we're doing it decisively! I rejoin Snerp but pray to Zud that my indecision and hesitancy should be lifted.

I check on the kitten. The fall didn't hurt it right?

(Yeah I know I'm incourigable)

(Ouch. Thanks guys) and right back to trying to discover the source of the chanting although perhaps a bit more cautiously.

(Sorry but) It is the will of Zud! (so what can I do right, gotta go)

My crossbow at the ready I go to check out the chanting. As the sound gets closer I start moving in what my character imagines is a stealthy manner.

@Buddamoose @TheDreadPirateRoberts @Earth

The chanting is coming from this way! I head steadfastly toward the sound. Come on boys do you want to live forever?

(Nope, in fact for an orc she's pretty big hearted)

If you wish to identify as a christian I won't argue with you but I am an atheist. I do not believe that your God is a god.

It is not news. It is simply an odd way of reffering to the concept. I am still an atheist and I would consider you to be also by my definition of atheism.

I give you a sideways stare. He has a little trouble making descisions.

If it's not too late I cast guidance on myself.

Then our beliefs are not dissimilar though I will probably continue referring to the concept you think of as God simply as reality. Thank you for telling me what you believe and why.

Perception check. Do the chests seem suspicious in any way?

(In this case right would be west.)

@Buddamoose @TheDreadPirateRoberts 

Roberts is also supposed to be marking the way we came when we come to a junction.

If we always go right it will be harder to get lost. 

Indeed the only thing we can say about your God is that it exists. We can be certain about literally nothing else about it. 

There is only one direction forward.

Ok then we finally agree on the definition. Sorry it took me a moment to understand. In that case what you believe is that something exists because some things seem to exist and you have chosen to call the totality of this existence God and worship reality even if our perceived reality turns out to be mindless or illusionary.

Are we on the same page now?

I shrug and follow the gnome. I have no love for the undead myself.

What about the rest? If the ultimate reality turns out to be just a mindless set of physical principles then those principles are god and god is mindless?

@Earth @TheDreadPirateRoberts 

I believe that I cannot be certain of anything except that I am experiencing something even if that something turns out to be totally illusory. I believe it because I'm not sure how to test the hypothesis that my senses are an accurate reflection of reality.

I also believe that it is convenient to except reality as it is represented by my senses simply because real or not there are pleasant and unpleasant experiences and my senses help me to differentiate between them and maximize my possibly illusionary experience. Also it is convenient since it allows me to have this conversation with you at all.

So you are not claiming that god is sentient, self aware, capable of making descisions or is connected with the bible.in any way?