Total posts: 7,093
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Is now a good time for you?
Unless time is linear can we say there are good times and bad times or only that there is time?
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@3RU7AL
If I'm unfamiliar with that term could you provide a link for me?Do you believe in causa sui?
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@breakingamber
Which part of my question are you asking a question about?
What did you say again?
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@3RU7AL
Isn't your own opinion the most important opinion of all?
Is it even possible to use any aesthetic but my own?
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@breakingamber
What other game has the same name?Is this really that kind of game?
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@Fallaneze
Please describe a way of testing for any transcendent object or force.
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@Fallaneze
The reality we experience is only in your brain. You cannot experience reality directly ever.
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@Fallaneze
It doesn't matter if 0 apples is an object it relates to an object and here is the amazing part and what 0 is really good for it relates to an object that isn't even there.
No you cannot hold one million objects in your mind that is precisely why the concept one million is so useful. It is a placeholder for one million objects. We cannot hold one million separate objects in our minds but we can hold the concept. Abstract concepts only exist in the brain but the brain is a physical object so abstract concepts cannot exist without that physical component. In any case I'm not sure what this even has to do with atheism. Math is not an argument for any god(s) even if it did somehow exist as more than a human invention.
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@Fallaneze
We still relate numbers with real.wprld objects even 0 is only useful when compared with 0 apples (as an example). When you say 1000000 you are holding the concept of one million objects in your mind. This is what makes math useful in the first place. It allows us to relate to numbers and concepts that are otherwise beyond the human mind to encompass. If an omniscient being existed it would have no use for math.
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@Stephen
No solution you say? Well then yes I believe we are done here. Thanks for the conversation just the same.
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@Stephen
With a pen.HOW CAN THEY ALTER THE QURAN!!!!
It seems we are talking past each other. Perhaps it is my fault. Perhaps I have not worded my question properly.
In the the end a book/faith/religion does not and cannot take any actions on its own. Books cannot commit violence or enact discrimination. Is your problem with the words contained in a book or with the actions they promote? Is your problem with a belief or with the actions of people? The former could be considered a problem with Islam (as separate from Muslims themselves) the latter would definitely be a problem with Muslims as they are the ones taking action (the quran cannot act).
Again I am not defending Islam ao.much as asking why you have singled it out and what exactly you think is a reasonable solution to the problems you have brought up.
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@Stephen
Of course Muslims could alter Islam. They are in fact the only ones that can. It would have nothing to do with me and would require explanations from no one.
I agree that banning a belief is impossible as beliefs are not a chouce. I'm glad you recognize at least that much.
That does leave us with the question of exactly what you think should be done (by non muslims) about Islam (if not muslims) and other possibly aggressive ideologies (any given faith based system of belief)?
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@Polytheist-Witch
I do not call for destruction of anything. I prefer understanding to fighting.
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@Stephen
I'm sorry but is this a discussion about your subjective opinion about what Muslims are likely to do? I thought it was a discussion of the faith known as Islam only and was not aimed at Muslims themselves.
Well since it is as much about the actions of Muslims as their beliefs allow me to ask again. Exactly what would you like to see happen in regards to Islam and muslims? For that matter what would you like to see done about other possibly violent beliefs? Beliefs that call for the exalecution of homosexuals, nonvirgin women, divorced women and people that work on any day of the week they choose for example? I'm pretty sure if we ban Islam for it's violent commands it would logically follow that we should ban any belief system with similar commands. Are we upset about thise too or just Islam?
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@keithprosser
What is seven? Can you explain the term without referencing objects?
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@Deb-8-a-bull
Boiling hot water lobster swimming.
That's just how we cook them.
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@breakingamber
--> @SupaDudz
Guys do we really want to turn this into a competition?
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@Fallaneze
Same with math. If everyone died it's not as though 0 = 1 instead of 1 = 1 anymore.
What is 1. Can you tell Me What it means without referencing objects?
Yes because there is no physical component to that. No matter or energy
There is no two unless there are at least two things to reference. Math is not itself physical it is only an easy reference to an actual physical thing. A place holder in our minds. It is a physical reality in the way any thought is and the brain produces physically detectable and measurable energy. Math only exists in the human mind which would appear to be dependent on the human brain which is a physical object.
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@Fallaneze
Also are you seriously suggesting that there is no way to physically test the concept 2+2=4 as measurably true or false? All you need is two objects and two more objects.
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@Fallaneze
Havevyoubever observed a nonhuman use math or logic consciously that you could confirm? If both you may consider the idea that both ate human inventions. Human tools. Human thought processes.
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@Fallaneze
The "laws" of logic are simply a method of evaluating evidence. The measurable effect is that we can often use it to reach true conclusions (provided it is accompanied by evidence). Logic would seem to be useful in evaluating our local physical (observable) universe. We have no way of knowing if the laws of physics (and therefore logic) hold true before after or outside the universe if indeed these designations even have meaning in that context.
As for sufficient evidence I at least would consider physical measurable evidence a bare minimum and you have already admitted that this is not possible with your conception of god(s). (Post 81)
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@Grugore
Killing an entire demographic of people is wrong in my opinion. Human understanding is always preferred to open warfare for the purpose of my stated goal of promoting human wellbeing and minimizing harm to humans. Wether Muslims are in violation of this stated goal or not it is still in opposition of this goal to subject all muslimscto a death penalty without due process.
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@Deb-8-a-bull
Weasel stomping day?
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@Fallaneze
It is not more rational to believe in god(s) in the absence of sufficient evidence.
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@Fallaneze
What do you mean by proof of Logic? Proof that humans use Logic? Do I really need to prove that?
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@Grugore
Whatever the christian god Yahweh advocates I cannot condone genocide.
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@Plisken
I'm not sure,what you mean but scepticism is the default position.
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@Vader
How could you misread the question? Are you illiterate?
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@Plisken
Even if I did my personal opinion has no place in a debate.
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@Plisken
Although I am uncertain what I have done you are welcome.
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@Plisken
Political systems do not work permanently ever. It does not matter what system you institute. I do not have an opinion in the way you seem to want me too.
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@Fallaneze
A tautology is a definitional truth. It is tautologically true that there are no married bachelors because a bachelor is defined as an unmarried human male.
A and A have the same meaning in an equation but A must still equal something. Such as the speed an object is moving or the mass of an object or the energy required to accomplish a given task.
If god(s) cannot be physically measured I am uncertain how we could expect sufficient proof of the existence of any god(s). Logic and math are merely human invention used to evaluate, measure and describe the universe they are not the objects/forces being evaluated. The objects/forces are the things being evaluated/measured/described.
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@Plisken
I did not say you should or even could make my opinion for me. What I said was that if we do not agree on a goal then we may not be having the same conversation. The goal would still beca subjective standard rather than an objective one.
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@Plisken
To a lesser degree so are smaller principalities within countries.
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@Plisken
A country already is such a zone.
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A=A Is tautologically true but A is still an abstract concept. Would youbsaybthat the god(s) you propose qualify as only concepts or as existent force(s)/thing(s)
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@Plisken
I do not agree that this is a worthwhile goal from my subjective perspective as a human and the vested interest I have in preventing human harm but if that is hypothetically our intended goal no such zones need be established.
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@Fallaneze
Is/are god*s) an abstract concept that has no meaning unless it is associated with some actual physical force or object or evidence or is/are god(s) actual physical object(s)/force(s)?
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@Fallaneze
Similarly logic is just a way of evaluating evidence it is not the evidence itself with our evidence to accompany it it is virtually useless.
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@Fallaneze
The way the universe behaves was discovered. Mathematical language can just be used to describe it. Math has no meaning unless it is used in reference to am actual physical force or object.
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